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  #1  
Old 07-17-2009, 09:33 PM
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Do 45s sound better than 33 1/3 ?

Hi,

Today, I bought 51 7" 45s. Most are 70-80s rock. The paper sleeves are in good condition, and some sleeves are colored, much like an album cover. The vinyl is in good to excellent condition, just needs a good cleaning.
Do 45s have better sound than the same track on a 33 1/3 LP? I know, the 45 r.p.m. 12" records I've played ( Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Dire Straits, etc.) sound much better than the regular speed LPs. Is there more information packed into the non EP 45s?

Thanks,

Nando.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:56 PM
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the theory is that a record mastered at 45 rpm or half speed mastered on a twelve inch disc gives the cutting head more time to make the cuts and is thus more accurate (in a nutshell). On a seven inch old school 45 I don't know if the effect woud be the same.

I have a few twelve inch 45's on heavyweight vinyl, new releases Acoustech I believe and they sound fantastic I will admit. They are pricey though so it's another "is it worth it situation".

My experience is that the 45's I've picked up do sound better. But again, those are new releases from some "audiophile" labels, so I would hope that they would beat the hell out of Loverboy B sides on a 7 inch 45 (don't laugh, I have that one somewhere)
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Old 07-18-2009, 12:06 AM
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All things being equal as far a vinyl condition and pressing, 45 rpm should sound better than 33 1/3. Pretty much the same principles apply as faster tape speeds do on reel to reel.
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:17 AM
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yeah, the more space an analog signal has, the less distorted it will be. Higher speeds give the signal more room, so it in theory should sound better.
just like Naknut said, this is similar to the theory of higher tape speeds and wider tape bringing better sound quality.
Other factors do come into play though. Examples could be the source used to cut the record, mastering, pressing materials...
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Old 07-18-2009, 05:47 AM
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Also consider that 45 RPM records begin where an LP would be ending. This can be easier for inner groove distortion effects to come into play. I wonder what the speed difference is between the beginning of an LP at 33 RPM and the beginning of a 45 closer to the spindle. (groove inches per second speed that is)
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graffias79 View Post
I wonder what the speed difference is between the beginning of an LP at 33 RPM and the beginning of a 45 closer to the spindle. (groove inches per second speed that is)
with a 12" LP, at the outer edge, there is a circumference of about 37.7 inches. at 33 1/3 rpm, 1256.5 inches of record groove pass the stylus in one minute. estimating roughly (this varies from record to record), the inner grove has a radius of 5.5 inches. that's a circumference of about 17.3 inches. at 33 1/3 rpm, about 575.9 inches of groove pass by the stylus every minute.

with a 7" 45, at the outer edge, there is a circumference of about 22 inches. at 45 rpm, about 990 inches of groove passes the stylus in one minute. i don't have any 45's handy to measure or compare, but i'm guessing the inner grove is about at the same place as it is on a 33, so at 5.5 inches, circumference 17.3 inches, at 45 rpm, about 576.6 inches of groove pass the stylus each minute.

of course, there are 12" 45's........
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:08 AM
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Hi,

Thanks for the responses. I'll play a few later on. I haven't played a 7" 45 since using my parents' Fleetwood console in the 60-70s. I may pick up a vintage juke box, if I can negotiate a good price, and it doesn't need much repair.
Are spiders still made for the 7" 45s? I'll have to round up a spindle adapter to play these records.

Take care,

Nando.
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Old 07-18-2009, 09:40 PM
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i did a little measuring. a standard 12" LP is actually 11 3/4 inches in diameter, roughly. the outermost groove is at about 5 3/4 inches from the center of the record, or a diameter of about 11 1/5 inches, a circumference of about 36.1 inches. the inner most grooves vary greatly from record to record, but average about 2 3/4 inches from the center, or a diameter of 5 1/2 inches, or a circumference of about 17.3 inches.

so, with a standard 12" 33 1/3 rpm LP, the outer groove passes the stylus at about 1203 inches per minute, about 20 inches per second, at about 1.1 miles per hour.

the inner grrove passes the stylus at about 576.6 inches per minute, 9.6 inches per second, at about .55 miles per hour.

so the groove is moving past the stylus faster at the beginning of the record by roughly twice the speed.
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Old 07-18-2009, 10:01 PM
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just guessing on 7" 45 rpm records that the actual diameter is 6 3/4 inches.

that would put the diameter of the first groove at about 6 1/2 inches. so at 45 rpm, 20.4 inches of groove pass the stylus in a minute, about .34 inches per second, at a speed of about .019 mph

i'm guessing that the inner groove is about the same as it is on a 12" record, or about 5 1/2 inches in diameter. at 45 rpm, about 17.3 inches of groove pass the stylus in a minute, or about .29 inches per second, at a speed of about .016 mph.

when you look at a record, it appears that the center is spinning faster than the outer edge. i suppose this is an optical illusion caused by the spiral pattern of the grooves.
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Old 07-18-2009, 10:03 PM
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some one please double check my calculations, then slap me.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:35 PM
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Spiders? 4 45s

http://www.garage-a-records.com/products.php?cat=123

This place has them, if they will not ship to you e-mail me and I will get them for you. What are you playing them on, I may have an extra spindle adaptor.

Larry
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:03 PM
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[QUOTE=imasoundhound] Some one please double check my calculations,
6 7/8", 9 7/8", 11 7/8" then slap me. No.
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite-ist View Post
Hi,

Thanks for the responses. I'll play a few later on. I haven't played a 7" 45 since using my parents' Fleetwood console in the 60-70s. I may pick up a vintage juke box, if I can negotiate a good price, and it doesn't need much repair.
Are spiders still made for the 7" 45s? I'll have to round up a spindle adapter to play these records.

Take care,

Nando.
Some jukeboxes will determine rotation speed by the size of spindle hole.
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry N View Post
http://www.garage-a-records.com/products.php?cat=123

This place has them, if they will not ship to you e-mail me and I will get them for you. What are you playing them on, I may have an extra spindle adaptor.

Larry
Hi Larry,

Thanks for the link. Stupid me, I didn't bother to check whether my Pioneer PL-570 had a spindle adapter, and sure enough, there it was, sitting in the recess at the back of the deck.
I might put in an offer for this juke box, that's been sitting awhile at the local flea market. Plugged it in, lights work, but I haven't gone beyond that. It's a German player from late 60's to early 70's, already loaded with 45s.

Talk later,

Nando.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:05 AM
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All things being equal (i.e. equal quality mastering, from the same master tape, equal vinyl quality etc) the 45s will sound better for sure. This is the reason fools like me pay $50 each for reissued jazz albums that have been reissued on 2 45 rpm discs, instead of on one 33 LP. The resolution, the detail, even the bottom end are better on 45s.

regards
Grant
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferriteman View Post
All things being equal (i.e. equal quality mastering, from the same master tape, equal vinyl quality etc) the 45s will sound better for sure. This is the reason fools like me pay $50 each for reissued jazz albums that have been reissued on 2 45 rpm discs, instead of on one 33 LP. The resolution, the detail, even the bottom end are better on 45s.

regards
Grant
Hi Grant,

Were those 45s on 12" vinyl? Which jazz artists do you like to listen to? Played a few 7'' 45s last night. Boy, do they need a good cleaning. Of the 10 I've heard, so far, Phil Collins, Against All Odds, Atlantic Gold Standard, has been the best sounding.

Nando.
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  #17  
Old 07-21-2009, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graffias79 View Post
Some jukeboxes will determine rotation speed by the size of spindle hole.
Thanks for the info. This juke box, if I'm not mistaken, plays 33s and 45s. Any juke box owners out there?

Take care,

Nando.
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Old 07-25-2009, 07:24 PM
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My understanding is the 45 speed is able to produce the entire 20hz-20Khz range, while 33 is lower on the treble end. Makes sense since increased speed produces better highs (just like with tapes).
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:20 PM
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Today, I spent a little time cleanin' up the old 45s with the magic elixir. I grabbed a couple more records at "Covers", to add to my previous collection of 51, I bought from there the week before. I lay the records on my bed to dry, before rewashing them, again. Thought I'd take a digital shot with my son's Sony, before I packed the records away. (He still has to show me how to defeat the flash on his camera.) Since I bought the 45s at "Covers", I believed it would be only fitting to title the shot "Covers."

Take care,

Nando.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:33 PM
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Thumbs up

Very nice collection. I'm a 45 collector myself, I love em and wish that you could still buy them new like you could in the good ol' days. I've made many a compilation tape from them.
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