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  #1  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:48 PM
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Ampex patent for baking degraded tape

Thanks to Gatorman082, here is the original Ampex patent for the tape-baking process.

Also, see the reprint of Eddie Cilenti's article on wendycarlos.com
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2014, 02:16 AM
John Pommon John Pommon is offline
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Baking 2" and half inch for 20 yrs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific Stereo View Post
Thanks to Gatorman082, here is the original Ampex patent for the tape-baking process.

Also, see the reprint of Eddie Cilenti's article on wendycarlos.com
Thanks for the info on the Ampex patent.
I've been baking quad 2" and 1/2" EIAJ since '94. Most of the tape I transfer is loaded w/ stiction and never makes it to the slate without coming to a screeching halt!
I started out 20 yrs ago with a small 30" oven nat gas and baked at 120/140 degrees starting w/120 & raising the temp in 10 degree increments until the stiction goes away almost never exceeding 150 degrees F. I've
been using a stainless & glass pizza 220V electric oven for a little over a decade with excellent results.
EIAJ 1/2" video tape takes much less time usually in a day (less than 24 hrs) as it is very thin.
QUAD 2" video tape at least 24 hrs at 140 degress F. I pull the reel flanges off the core as the heat faster than the core.
If the quad 30 sec spots are on plastic (usually) I wind the tape onto aluminum because the plastic NAB reel hubs change shape in the heat and won't fit back on the AVR-3 quad reel spindles.

I wonder what AMPEX charged back in the day to bake a one hour program.
Baking doesn't last. The tape should be transferred soon after cool down.

Thanks for great old Ampex history of tape baking.

John
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Last edited by John Pommon; 09-23-2014 at 02:30 AM.
  #3  
Old 09-24-2014, 12:07 PM
SoundGuy SoundGuy is offline
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Baking Tapes

I also bake tapes, primarily my own. I have some 1970s vintage Ampex 406/407 and 456. Back when I was researching this topic, I read the piece on Wendy Carlos' site. Since then, I've set up a webpage which y'all can read at www.youramerica.net/tapebake.htm.

One thing which rarely comes up in conversations about this topic, is that you should not wind the tape onto a different reel, whether for purposes of using a metal reel instead of plastic, or to use a "junk" reel, or to achieve a better tape pack. Leave it alone and bake it "as is"! This is because adjacent layers of tape may be stuck to each, and if you wind it, they'll be damaged.

I bake 1/4" tapes for about 4-5 hours at 133 F. The oven is purpose-built, all wood, powered by a 100 watt light bulb on a dimmer, and has two "hot holding" food thermometers inside, and with a window in the door. This has worked very well.

  #4  
Old 09-28-2014, 11:41 PM
John Pommon John Pommon is offline
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baking tapes

That is pretty amazing how a 100W bulb can generate enough to heat the oven to 133F.

That has to be the safest & easiest on tape ever!
I've heard that food dehydrators are great and safe as well.

I keep around three or four commercial thermometers in my electric
oven.
I really appreciate the glass door as I can keep an eye on the thermometers w/o
opening the oven.

As for delaminating the oxide when spooling a reel onto another reel
I suppose that could happen if the tape was in an unusual and abusive condition.

I have baked hundreds of reels over a 20 yr period . . mostly 2 inch QUAD
broadcast and the very thin 1/2" EIAJ consumer and never have witnessed
a tape wrap sticking to the next warp.
If the tape had gotten wet or saturated with something sticky . . that would warrant some kind of intervention.

Personally I would soak the enire reel in a 100% NAPTHA bath and let it air dry.

On quad spot reels the center NAB hubs easily change dimension so its a must
unless they don't need baking.

One BIG thing to remember is to demagnetize the entire tape path after working with 2 plastic spot reels. They generate a lot of static charge during rewind.
"Scratching tape" is 100% likely.
Can never demagnetize enough.

Quad scratches look like stationary stair markers in the video.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pommon View Post
I've heard that food dehydrators are great and safe as well.
So I have read.

Here is a discussion of the technique:
www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Disclaimer: I have not used a dehydrator, so I can't vouch for the results. Does anyone have direct experience with having tried the various techniques and can give a suggestion as to which one is superior? Or do they all basically do the same thing and work about the same?

Last edited by Retrovert; 10-09-2014 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Fixed linkage.
  #6  
Old 10-12-2014, 01:55 AM
John Pommon John Pommon is offline
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baking magnetic media ~ various methods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrovert View Post
So I have read.

Here is a discussion of the technique:
www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Disclaimer: I have not used a dehydrator, so I can't vouch for the results. Does anyone have direct experience with having tried the various techniques and can give a suggestion as to which one is superior? Or do they all basically do the same thing and work about the same?
I include baking as part of the transfer service. I've been baking 1/2" and 2" quad videotape for my clients for approx 20 years.
I bought a new small gas oven for the 1st ten years.
I relocated my studio and brought in a professional stainless steel w/glass door electric oven. It has an upper and lower electric coil. I use just the upper coil.
Its calibrated with three professional thermometers. Temperature fluctuation is within a 5 degree range.

Neither oven has had a failure or lost control over the temperature.

A food dehydrator seems like a viable alternate.

I've made tests over the nat gas & elec ovens over the years. When the temperature exceeds 180 degrees . tape delamination begins.

Not sure what the upper temperature range of the typical food dehydrator is.
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Last edited by John Pommon; 10-12-2014 at 01:59 AM.
  #7  
Old 10-12-2014, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pommon View Post
When the temperature exceeds 180 degrees . tape delamination begins.

Not sure what the upper temperature range of the typical food dehydrator is.
Dehydrators tend to have lower maximum temperatures because, contrary to what one might think, increasing the temperature does NOT decrease the drying time; it just makes the outside hard, leathery, and inedible. (Which is why when making jerky in the oven all the cookbooks warn about turning up the oven to get results faster.)

The article I linked to above discusses the temperature for the Snackmaster Pro FD-50:
Quote:
The FD-50 features an adjustable thermostat and a built-in fan to circulate the air. I checked for dangerous magnetic fields and found none, though I do use the upper trays just to be safe (the fan is in the bottom of the unit). The heat is adjustable from 95 F to 145 F and is accurate within five degrees when checked with a photographic thermometer.
This is well within the safety limit you specify, which means it ought to work.

I was just wondering in terms of fitting tape inside, the uniformity of temperature, etc.

The dehydrator seems to be a safer alternative to an toaster oven, at least one not modified to have a maximum temperature that is within the safety range.
  #8  
Old 10-12-2014, 11:55 PM
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Curious to know why The Baking process is not a long lasting treatment.

Some real science happening somewheres...
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2014, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
Curious to know why The Baking process is not a long lasting treatment.
simply because it works on the effect of the SSS and not on the cause, by simply "drying" the tape which will restart absorbing moisture as it did before the baking process so that, after a while, it will be just sticky as before.
  #10  
Old 10-13-2014, 05:47 AM
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Am I the first to notice the patent uses SI units (C and not F)?
It means that it originates from some European (non Anglo-saxon) work ...
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:59 AM
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or perhaps, since SI is just the international measuring system, they did choose to make it international?
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:41 AM
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Or perhaps a Canadian...
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  #13  
Old 10-13-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Am I the first to notice the patent uses SI units (C and not F)?
It means that it originates from some European (non Anglo-saxon) work ...
Not necessarily.

American scientists, especially chemists and physicists, all use Celsius to the point that it is their initial response, and when one uses Fahrenheit they're temporarily perplexed because the temperature is all wrong.

I remember having this issue when discussing my CPU temperature after installing a water cooler, where my statement that it dropped from 130 to 100 was met with shock at how high this number was until, a moment later, it was realized I was talking Fahrenheit and they Celsius.
  #14  
Old 11-08-2014, 12:01 AM
John Pommon John Pommon is offline
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Can Acetate audio tape be baked?

I've read that some experts claim its is unsafe to bake acetate tape.
Is it also the case that acetate does not sticky shed syndrome.

John
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2014, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pommon View Post
I've read that some experts claim its is unsafe to bake acetate tape.
Is it also the case that acetate does not sticky shed syndrome.

John
Only if you want a bonfire in your oven..........
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  #16  
Old 11-08-2014, 09:21 AM
DeNederlandseTapEigenaar DeNederlandseTapEigenaar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pommon View Post
I've read that some experts claim its is unsafe to bake acetate tape.
Is it also the case that acetate does not sticky shed syndrome.
Exactly. No SSS = No baking.
  #17  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:50 PM
John Pommon John Pommon is offline
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Avetate vs Mylar - SSS; TOS (Tape Oxide shed)

I've read that acetate tape is plagued by TOS ~ tape oxide shed.
I seem to recall transferring some 1/4" audio tape. The tape was shedding a oxide onto the heads requiring frequent cleaning with Napt
It created a speed problem; the tape was a little harder to pull accross the heads.
Baking it at 130 degrees for 4 hours relieved the drag and the transfer went well.
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  #18  
Old 11-29-2014, 12:29 AM
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Reelspin baked tapes

OmyGod - this technique is still viable, and/or alive and well. I HEARD about this technique, a dozen or so years ago, and have seen diff. opinions about how well it can WORK, ultimately. Well, thanks to those who've contributed, so far, and the discussion is truly interesting.
  #19  
Old 11-29-2014, 06:09 AM
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Last week I baked an original 15 IPS 1/4" safety master tape of a 1978 April Wine album that was on Ampex 456 and had horrible SSS. 12 hours in the food dehydrator and an overnight cool-down, and the next day it played through perfectly as I made a 15 IPS transfer onto some awesome PEM 468 tape as well as some Maxell UD.

I'm glad I learned how to do this, and that the original safety master wasn't just thrown in the trash!!!
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:34 AM
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Sky you should do the NuFinish treatment and keep the safety master or send it to me.
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