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  #1  
Old 08-06-2012, 08:56 AM
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Tascam 34B: Not playing

I pressed play, the pinch roller engaged & the right hand reel moved momentarily. Then the tape seemed to lose tension & the shut off arm dropped.

I took the front cover off & this dropped out:



Which I think goes here, with the spring hooked to "A" & then the line loosely wrapped around "B", but where the loose end goes I know not, presumably onto the tension arm mechanism somewhere, but where?



On the other side of the deck, it has a twin, but the "loose" end has a tiny brass ferrule on it, and again it's not attached to anything. Does this attach to the shut off arm mech somewhere? Or somewhere else?:



Help!
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Last edited by Rob998; 08-06-2012 at 08:59 AM.
  #2  
Old 08-06-2012, 09:07 AM
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Hi,

There is a lengthy explanation of the 2 tensioners and how they have to be rebuilt/work. This is fairly common, but does nothing to stop the deck from running.

The real problem is elsewhere. Maybe the capstan belt.

Marc
  #3  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:32 AM
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Hmm, belt seems fine. Just tried putting it in to play with no reels on & it spins up fine....

However, when I put a reel on & tighten up the NAB the right hand reel is quite tight/stiff. & wont spin when I press play On closer inspection I can see that there is some roughly cut foam under the hub, as if in an attempt to pad/space the hub out slightly.

If the hub is binding I suppose the low torque motor won't turn it....I'll have a play with spacing it out & see if that helps.

And seeing as I've got the front plate off, I may as well sort the little spring/string arrangement, I did a search, but couldn't find anything (probably using the wrong search criteria) so any chance of a link to the guide on fixing them please?
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2012, 01:22 PM
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Hi Rob,

The tension arm rotation devices are not rocket science to figure out but the grease they put into them may have dried some and made them too hard to turn. This needs to be resolved. and then all the part need to be placed in the right position and the tension arms can be reassembled. The service manual can help in the placement of the parts plus a person who has one open can take some picture to show how they are assembled. I have some 30 series decks here that I can do that with but they are probably not right at this point too. Some people take them apart and just leave the arms without any tension on them. This is the wrong way to service these. Chances are the person who was in the deck messing around with the tension system may have also upset the opto-interrupter that controls the shut off function. If there is more mechanical binding then all that has to be removed or resolved as well- it is amazing what some people do to deck and then sell them because they can not get them to run. To them I say just send it to a good Technician as the other is a waste of time. I don't know what foam is in the reel table but it does not belong there.
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2012, 01:40 PM
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With the deck off, manually push the brake solenoid plunger all the way in. Now, both reel tables should spin very freely (by hand). If not, then find out what is binding them.
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2012, 01:53 PM
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Thanks Sam.

Just to clarify, the brass & aluminium component that I labelled "B" is meant to rotate? If so then it's seized solid, as you say probably due to dried out grease.

I think I've worked out where the string/springs attach, but obviously I need to free off the rotation device (if that's what it is!).

I could tell as soon as I saw it that the foam had no right being there, it looks like a typical bodge. Looks like I'm going to have to get deeper into this baby than I intended to! Never mind, it's a good opportunity to learn some new skills.

On the plus side, the heads & the rest of the tape path cleaned up very nicely, most of the SSS residue was able to be picked off with a wooden dental stick & the rest was shifted with some Isopropyl alcohol & cotton buds & then I gave the whole lot another clean with some IPA & microfibre swatches.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapetech View Post
With the deck off, manually push the brake solenoid plunger all the way in. Now, both reel tables should spin very freely (by hand). If not, then find out what is binding them.
Thanks, I've just tried that & they do spin nicely. I think the problem is that the right hand table is closer to to the chassis than the left hand one. I haven't measured properly yet, but it's feel-able by the scientific "stuff your finger under" test. When you put a reel on & tighten the NAB hub it then causes the reel to bind against the fascia with enough force to prevent the motor from turning the reel.

I suppose the monkey who put the foam under the table was trying to space it out enough for a reel to clear the fascia. He failed! I'm hoping that this will be fixable with some appropriate adjustments.

Bodges like this annoy me, because in my experience that these things are usually properly fixable with only a little more effort than went into working out how to bodge it!
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"Second hole down from the back of the neck, son, that's the one you want."
  #8  
Old 08-06-2012, 02:43 PM
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Yes, Rob the foam comes off ane the reel table height is easily adjusted by the lock nuts on the reel sub mount. Just do not tighten them too tight as they are only pot metal. Put a good 7" or 10.5" reel on and then look at how the tape lines up between the flanges. The tape should be stacking up on the center of the hub and the machine does not have to be in running order to see this. The reel table probably got bumped in when shipped in a not correct fashion. The hex nuts in the reel table sub assembly can be accessed either through hole in the top frame of the deck or maybe from the side. Wile adjusting and finding the spot you need
only tighten one until you find the right position then tighten both.
The aluminum cylinder are suppose to turn but with a slow action so as to
apply a damping action through the strings to the arms. I have put alcohol on them to get them moving and that might be all they need follow up with some oil. If you take them all apart and clean you may be removing all the lubrication and white lithium grease will be too loose. You might have to get a thicker grease like luberex.
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2012, 03:09 PM
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Thank you again Sam. I knew there would be a simple solution to the binding issue, I shall get onto that tomorrow!

And now you mention that the tension devices are actually dampers that makes sense too, & I can now understand how they would work with the string now. I must admit to scratching my head a bit with those things! I knew they looked too well engineered for the string just to simply slide around them!

I don't think Luberex is available in the UK, would a general purpose molybdenum grease or bearing grease do the job?
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywavebe View Post
I don't know what foam is in the reel table but it does not belong there.
Probably some remnant of a packing job that the foam got wedged in there or some seller thought he was properly "packing" the deck!
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2012, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob998 View Post

I don't think Luberex is available in the UK, would a general purpose molybdenum grease or bearing grease do the job?
Lubrex is a little too thin. I use bearing grease or silicone grease that has some viscosity to it. Makes smooth, but nicely damped.
  #12  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:29 PM
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Hi Rob,
I think the stuff in there is Silicone from what I have seen and I did not think that it dries out but I suppose it all does at some point. Make sure to not grip those item with pliers to get them to turn as they may get out of round- I don't think they are all that strong. Either apply alcohol to the crack and try to turn with hand and maybe a heat gun might get them moving. I am not sure what you should add to silicone grease to get it to be
more fluid. I do remember some regular machine oil helping get them looser so that might be an answer. Tinman is a good help most of the time so he may have a better solution. I think once you get the reel table at the right place the unit will work fine. I bought one myself so I have a 34 and an 34B here as well as 44OB, 40-4, 44, and a number of A3340S decks.
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  #13  
Old 08-07-2012, 12:00 AM
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what i did was to remove the whole brass and aluminum ring assembly from the two screws in the back. Then left it overnight submerged in alcohol, the next day came out easily by turning it with my hand. Maybe an overkill but it worked.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:32 AM
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OK so last night I dribbled some 99% IPA off a cotton bud around the joint between the brass & the aluminium & went to bed. This morning I gave them a firm twiddle & they shifted a millimetre or so. Mindful that the aluminium pulley is quite soft, I left the Mole grips in the toolbox & cut a thin strip of nylon webbing & wrapped it twice round the pulley so that the pressure would be even around the whole component. Then I took the two loose ends, one in each hand & pulled each end, one after the other & sort of rocked the pulley back & forth. After a few seconds of this they freed up completely!

The left hand pulley turns with hardly any damping at all, whereas the rhs seems to have some damping left in it. As they're probably designed to exert equal damping I'll whip them off & repack them.

I'll pop to my local electronics place & see if they have some thick Silicone grease. I'd like to use that as I'm sure the viscosity would remain stable over a range of temperature (my listening room is a conservatory so can get quite warm on a sunny day), where as "traditional" grease might lose some viscosity when it gets warm.

Then it's on to sorting the reel tables!

Thanks for all the advice chaps, this really is a great site!
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2012, 02:56 PM
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Progress has been made!

I took the dampers off & found that the silicone grease had deteriorated & was acting more like glue & had in fact partially set hard:





Whilst I thought that pliers/Mole grips were not the best tool to try & free the soft aluminium pulleys off, someone else obviously had a different take on the problem, there is a similar mark 180 degrees around the pulley.



So out came the IPA again & I cleaned it of the best I could, but the grease had reacted with the brass, so with the attitude that the bearing faces can't ever be too shiny, I got the metal polish out:



Then I repacked & reassembled the dampers with fresh silicone grease (I bought a 50ml tube, which means I have several lifetimes supply left!):



I think I've worked out how the string & spring arrangement goes, please do advise if I've cocked it up:



Then it was on to the reel tables. This is what some monkey had thought would prevent the reel binding against the fascia (along with removing a couple of the fascia securing screws, which were obviously "in the way" )



If he'd bothered looking, he'd have seen the 2 allen bolts behind the tables (they're far more visible in real life than in this shot, I've marked one of the bolts "A"):



A quick adjustment, and SHE RIIIIIIIIIIDES



Oh, and here's a before & after of the heads:

Before cleaning



After:



Thanks to everyone who gave their advice, it was much appreciated!
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  #16  
Old 08-07-2012, 03:16 PM
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You GOT IT!!

Marc
  #17  
Old 08-07-2012, 03:27 PM
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Only one more thing to do is recondition the capstan shaft so the glaze is taken off. This is done with double sided tape and some 200 grit sandpaper wrapped around the pinch roller and let run for 5 minutes at high speed. This will renew the capstan shaft roughness and keep the tape from slipping when the deck starts up from a stop. The flash voltage the motor get and with a slippery capstan shaft can result in a start speed going from higher (slipping tape) to regular speed. This shaft issue and the condition of the Pinch Roller is the contributing factors.
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2012, 03:43 PM
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Thanks guys! I enjoyed getting into it TBH. It astounds me that 2 such simple to fix problems had been given such half arsed efforts in the past. The mind boggles.

Sam, I was wondering how to shift that mark on the shaft, I tried cleaning it for ages with IPA & got a fair bit off, but didn't want to go at it with metal polish for fear of smoothing it off too much, I figured that Teac had left it with a rough finish for a reason!

I've probably got some 200 Wet N Dry in the garage, so I'll get onto that in the morning!
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywavebe View Post
Only one more thing to do is recondition the capstan shaft so the glaze is taken off. This is done with double sided tape and some 200 grit sandpaper wrapped around the pinch roller and let run for 5 minutes at high speed. This will renew the capstan shaft roughness and keep the tape from slipping when the deck starts up from a stop. The flash voltage the motor get and with a slippery capstan shaft can result in a start speed going from higher (slipping tape) to regular speed. This shaft issue and the condition of the Pinch Roller is the contributing factors.
This worked like a charm Sam, thank you for the tip. I also roughened up the pinch roller slightly while I was at it.

Just need to sort out some cables & decent tape now, all the stuff I got is shedding, even the reels that are in Zonal boxes (even one reel that had a Zonal 675 sticker on it), which I thought was safe. I spent a bit more time cleaning today because of that! I guess until I know a bit more about this hobby I should only trust sealed boxes, rather than what tape in an open box purports to be. I'd like to give the Nu-Finish thing a try, but we can't seem to get it over here.
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"Second hole down from the back of the neck, son, that's the one you want."
  #20  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:49 PM
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Well, if there is no Nu Finish and the Zonal is bad then you only choice is to get some new tape such as SM911 (RMGI Brand). I thing someone had posted a link to a place in the UK that was selling the stuff. Get one roll and see how you like it. It is much better tape than what was made in the past anyway. If you want the longer length you could get the 1 mil stuff such as LPR35. I guess the next area of adventure might be alignment, and calibration. That is if you want to.
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