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  #1  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:04 PM
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Smile De-Bugging an AKAI CS702D Tape Deck

Afternoon!

So it goes that this last week I bought another AKAI CS702D not unlike the one I've just Brought back to life.

I set them both up and decided to start taping.

I was feeling cocky so I just went and bought it without really testing it.

It was 30 bucks and the guy threw in a Leather "mountie" holster belt (worth probly 50 bucks, so there's my initial investment back and a few profit coins!

Back to the Deck; It was stopping in Play mode and Rew/FF also.
I had the thing opened up and took a look at the "gear box" looks like I narrowed it down to an area near the counter belt, A plastic wheel with a "corkscrew" type shaft, was not making contact with what I "believe" is the Pause or "stop" mode Actuator. No problem, Fixed..actually wondering if this was done "deliberately" so most other peoplel would be returning the player to it's owner...good racket if you ask me, the seller WAS pretty open about a RETURN.

So, after cleaning it up and running it, things were OK. except after several hours and a few days of use, I noticed the playback speed was dropping after about 15 minutes of use, And basically the speed altered SLIGHTLY but EVENLY, about a split-hair slower, hard to notice unless you're playing something with a flat beat like techno or house music.

I re-adjusted the motor (dusted it out), Cleaned out the Circuit best as I could, and the speed problem goes away once I cut the power for a minute to let it "cool" off.
But it came back a few times, it's just intermittant so I can't say..there's SEVERAL causes that should be narrowed down with your help.

Another "clue" is also I notice the tape does not STOP at the end, and remains stuck in play mode.

(not healthy to leave it like this, but I fell asleep and left it on for 8 hours, YES wreckless, call me what you will, I was exhuasted from work...the machine was making oscillating pitch at me when I woke up this morning and I turned it off and "stopped" the tape. )

The machine was covered in Nicotine, Wondering If that could be Gumming it up in the mechanics or even shorting the PCB a little.

Off the top of my head I can't remember what Causes these 70's decks to Stop-Stopping!!!

there's like at LEAST 3 things that could be responsible for this.

So to recap---

Drive speed is slightly, but evenly Dropping after a brief run period.

Tape doesn't stop at the end of Tape.

Any thought?

I'm fine to trouble shoot on my own, but I could use some direct help if you're willing to lend me some of YOUR time and experiances.

save ME some time and searching.

another last thing is for me to ask what type or ERA of Cassettes are optimal for use with these decks in your opinion.

-Love from Jules!
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:24 PM
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I have a similar machine, CS707D, and the stop gear is solenoid actuated, you have to open the box and take a look on that solenoid under the transport and see if it moves correctly, maybe there is some old hardened grease and the solenoid can not disengage the gear, or needs a drop of oil, should be an easy fix.

my 0.02 Euros
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Decks: Pioneer CTF-900, Nak BX-300, 480, BX-125, BX-1, CR-2, Akai CS-707D, Yamaha T-800GL, Rotel RD-18F
Multitracks: Sansui Mr-6, Yamaha MT44
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:00 PM
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solenoid? That means like those little copper Contact things?
I will have a looksee. My guess is about the same as yours! the deck needs a little fresh drop of oil. is it permissable to use a little 3-1, stuff you use for electric motors/generators? Or do the plastic gears strictly need the sludgy stuff, If so, will I be in luck to source some of that Grease locally? the closest thing I have on hand is white lithium grease, I don't want to mess around too much before I make anything worse.
I'm not usually that proficiant when It comes to mechanical issues, especially with PLASTIC gears and components.

Any idea about the tape speed issue? or is that a brickbat that will possibly just work itself out in time and use, could be the same Lubrication problem.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:02 PM
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Spin

So, no dice.

I have done what I can to clean the Belt wheel, Drop of oil on the motor shaft where it meets the belt part, couple drops on some gears, but there's enough stuff I can't get to with my Lube and cotton swabs without taking the damn thing apart. I guess It's time to take a close look at the owners manual and see what the specs look like on paper. LOT of nicotine build up on the Rubber belt wheels.

trouble is that I cannot get IN to clean and lube the "sluggish" components without totally dismantling the "gear box" (like removing or taking it out in some way) and that is just plain Accident waiting to happen.

I opened both decks to discover the one that DOES Stop when the tape is done, actually appears to be MISSING a component from the Gear mechanism, basically where the counter belt Drives the corkscrew gear there is a timer latch that comes around and over to depress the "stop". There is also a seprate latch-lever that has a spring loaded lever, keeping the Corkscrew from sliding into "stop" position, this Lever has a Long metal rod that runs to another part of the "stop" mechanism. (god I need a photobucket account right about now!!!) either way I still can't see the Culprit without taking things apart.

That spring lever I just mentioned, isn't even on the OTHER "working" deck.
there must be a slight design change..because it looks like it SHOULD still be there, despite the fact that the one WITH the lever would constantly STOP without it regulating pressure of the Counter belt wheel.

I'm just frazzled that I can't get to the Real problem without SEVERELY opening up the guts and that could spell pure disaster in one false move.
too many spring-wheels and tiny plastic bits for my likes.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:54 PM
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I HAD, the PDF manual for this deck, but I'm using a different laptop without my saved download.

anyone with a PDF and a spare minute feel like e-mailing me the manual?

dumpster.diver22@gmail.com

I am having zero luck on google, but I DID originally find it "out there" somewhere Free and easy. no luck today, the laptop I'm on right now is a hair-puller to work with.

thanks if you can gimme any help!
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:49 PM
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Frustrated

Anyone at all, don't be shy.......


*seriously gonna throw my laptop across the room*

I could really skip the whole BUYING a PDF for like 7.99 right about now..

(why is it I found this thing like two weeks ago on google? in minutes flat!!! but now It seems I can't even find the trail after 2 solid hours searching google.)



I just need to take a look at the Diagram/ illustration of the Mechanical components to get my bearings straight.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:46 PM
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I found the manual.

As for the speed problem - maybe some component gets warm and changes its value enough for the speed to change perceptibly.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Akai_CS-702D_Casette_Deck-SM.pdf (1.03 MB, 14 views)
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R2R: Akai GX636, Электроника-004, Revox A77, Юпитер МК-106С, Снежеть-301, National RQ-115, Uher 4400 IC, Aidas 9M, АСТРА 110С - Cassette: Technics RS-BX646, Sony WM-D6C, Marantz PMD430, Sony WM-EX606 - VHS: Siemens FM739 (SVHS), Sharp VC-MH704, Panasonic AG-7330 (SVHS) - Radio: Latvija M, Leak Troughline Stereo, Siemens B8 - Record player: Technics SL-D20, JVC L-E5 - LD: Pioneer CLD-2850 - MD: Sony MZ-RH1 - Amp: Denon PMA-1080R, Hitachi HA-37 - Other: dbx 224, 400xg, 3bx-ds 500char limit is here
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:29 PM
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OH MY GOD!!! I LOVE YOU, SINCERELY!!!

I've been going google ape-spaz for the last 3 hours.

funny, there must be some other random dude out there who had to deal with what I'm dealing with too, and he BOUGHT the manual PDF and supplied a URL to support FREE downloads of the manual.
So strange It no longer turns up in googles search engine anymore.

you have just empowered my LIFE!!!! I was feeling totally powerless without that stupid thing! don't you LOATHE that, when it's right there but you can't reach out and grab it? I will never get over myself I guess..

Chalk it up to the old Cranium;

NEXT TIME...SAVE THE PDF FOR FUTURE REFRENCE, as SOON as you have it open on your PC desktop



Shoot, Lesson learned.

-THANKS SOOO SINCERELY! Remind me later when YOU need to call in a FAVOR from someone!!! (lol, if it's PC related, I'm sad to admit I cannot be of much use, but I mean, I'll do your laundry or wash your car or something, I have good orginizational skills at your service!!!)

-Jules.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:38 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium100 View Post
I found the manual.

As for the speed problem - maybe some component gets warm and changes its value enough for the speed to change perceptibly.
I notice the Tranformer gets Very warmed up!

I'm that it is not an Electical problem, and it's just mechanical issue only, At least mechanical problem can be fixed quickly. Electrical requires time and parts I do not have. mechanical takes psysical aptitude.

But Sad to admit, you are probly right, at this point.

The Deck is 1977, parts just don't last forever.

I think this deck has been sitting for many years now.

I will make updates when I make some progress.

it could go BOTH ways progressively WORSE, or BETTER. haha.

-J

roll on one; ___
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:57 PM
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I found the manual using Google.

To me electronics (or PC) repair is easier than mechanical, so I always hope the problem is in the electronics, not the gears and pulleys because then I have much higher chance of repairing it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:06 PM
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Talking

AH-hah!

Skimming over the manual pages 8-9 I ALREADY notice this is where ONE of my problems has to be stemming from, somewhere with my detection wheel and pawl movement there is something out of skew. This is gonna take some coffee and maybe something a little stronger too.

Looks like I have a problem in the vacinity of my Auto-stop mechanism!

I'm gonna be fiddling into the early hours tonight boys.

as for the speed, we'll cross that off when we get there.

THANKS FOR THE HELP!

yeah I agree with you on the mechanical Vs. electronic problem solving 100%
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:03 AM
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Reelstop

Thank you for the manual again!!! reading a manual that actually EXPLAINS the function of the mechanisms is just like a warm ray of sun on a cool morning.

(don't know why it didn't show up a second time in my google browser, I suppose I should have sifted through my browser "history" to find it)

Ok So..

as for the AUTO-STOP problem, it's related to the same cause of the player "stopping" during play mode.

Looks like I might just Need a NEW counter belt to keep better tension on the detection wheel.

either that or the mounted tension spring isn't wound up anymore and not putting enough downward force on the detection wheel. (havent found that part out in the manual yet, but I believe it's more to do with the belt itself being time-worn and stretched.

damn CAM-SLIDER!

damn damn!!! old and way-worn rubber belt!

I tried a dab of Auto-motive belt dressing to see if that would give a little extra "pull" to the belt upon the Detection wheel.

Seems like it wont be a permanent or even short-term solution. but it did the "trick" for a few minutes before the tape stopped during plyback and the "pawl" (lever) on the cam actuated the plunger when the belt didn't provide enough counter-clockwise force upon the detection wheel.

I will have to find a new belt and in the meantime use the deck with the Auto-stop disengaged.

as for the speed, Who knows? only time will tell.

and On THAT note, where could you recommend I order a new set of belts from?

I'm sure I've got options, but who is the most "customer friendly" ?

I'm very vocal about my orders and like to have good response during transactions even for something THIS insignificant. I'd better order some spares too.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
and On THAT note, where could you recommend I order a new set of belts from?
I just go to my local electronics store with the old belt and ask them to get me a new one, if they cannot find the exact diameter, I take a belt that is a few mm smaller. Or a thicker/thinner one if I know that there is enough space in the mechanism or the tension won't be very high. So far I did not need to order any belt online. I cheated one though - the counter belt in my Marantz PMD-430 was loose, I bought a thicker one for it and used the loose belt in my Sony WM-EX606, which also had a loose belt, the belt that was loose on the Marantz fits perfectly in the Sony.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:52 AM
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Local I am not. LOL!


HOWEVER.

I probably Definetly Solved the tape speed issue maybe.

Cost me the price of a new Counter belt, ha!


I think the Cam was depressing the Auto-stop plunger and not fully stopping the tape, so It was playing with the "stop" mode half-cocked. Because of the belt not giving enough torque to move the Cam slide mechanisms. that totally is the tape speed Issue I was "hearing" before I could acount for it.

THANK YOU!

soo, Looks like it's ALL on the new Tape counter belt I guess?

Lucky?

*h ope*

*edit* more I'm looking at the belt on THIS CS702D, the other exact AKAI deck I have has a much heavier gauge belt too.

this one is pretty weak, who knows if it's even the right and or original belt?

I'd better order a heavier rounded style belt.

It's going to be a REAL PAIN to get a new one On I think.
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Last edited by Dumpster Diver; 05-01-2012 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
I'd better order a heavier rounded style belt.
The belt cross-section (rounded or square) depends on the pulleys - if the pulleys have a V shaped groove you need a square belt, if the pulleys have a round groove you need a round belt (and flat or rounded out pulleys need a flat belt).
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:38 AM
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Question

LOL! sounds easier than how you actually put it on!!!
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:41 PM
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HI, I would like to update this thread about the 2 Akai Decks.

(also I should apologize for my absence from this board for the last uh, 5 months. Sorry, I got a summer Job and therefore barely enough time to really do much taping or typing. I love this place!!!)

Havent really had time to even read the entire manual for this deck all the way, have a new laptop and cant find the file anymore.

one of them AKai players needs a new counter belt (the auto-stop problem, and why the deck kept on stopping) Its stretched a little. The solution for now Is actually a can of Motomaster BELT DRESSING. I use a little on a cotton swab and just put a LITTLE (not too much) on the belt, and it is keeping enough Friction to pull back the cam with pawl so it doesnt depress the plunger and stop the tape anymore. yay! so far so good, working now, I had to make a plastic screwdriver from a guitar pick to calibrate the speed!!!

so much for ordering a new belt or putting it on, cross that bridge when we get there, I need the manual to reference belt size etc..for now.

peace- (again, sorry for not being around more!) Thanks again for all the good help around here!

-Jules
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:10 AM
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FINDING BELTS

I Gotta ask you gents; where I could find Belts that fit this Player. this is probly the best bet to find them here.



I have to have a counter belt because its a Cam-slide-pawl, plunger mechanism for the auto-stop. a Loose belt counter belt= tape Stopping or not getting enough drive to fully stop creating slow tape speed.

at least thats what It looks like to me.

Im in Dire need!

right now I have to run with the Auto-stop Disengaged.

Please Help !
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:54 PM
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For belts try this place:
http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/akaikits.html
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:31 PM
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hm, I was of the understanding that Bob was Awol.

ok, cool I will order from vintage Electronics or Fred Marr.

Jeff from Pacific Recommended him to me.
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