Tapeheads Forums


Go Back   Tapeheads Forums > Tape, Taping and Tape Machines > Cassette > Blank Cassette Tape

Blank Cassette Tape All aspects of blank tape; quality, characteristics, experiences, use and storage.

Universal Capstan Motor
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-13-2012, 02:12 PM
Villee Villee is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vantaa, Finland
Posts: 175
Smile If you´re cassette squeals...

Hello everybody!

I used to have a classical pre-recorded cassette (Made in USA, propably Ampex tape...) which squealed a lot and the tape itself had constant dark spots on it. The squealing heard via playback too.

So I imbued the tape with car wax and let it stay for a while. Then I rewinded the tape several times and cleaned the left deposits off.

Now the tape works perfectly, it doesn´t squeal at all and it doesn´t left any deposites anymore. It looks that the tape relubricated itself :D. Maybe this kind of treatment could rescue some white powder syndrome TDK MA tapes?

Best regards Ville
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-13-2012, 03:23 PM
Velktron's Avatar
Velktron Velktron is online now
Dream tape never ends
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yurope
Posts: 3,289
That's an interesting fix you found there, Villee! I have several plagued Silver Crown tapes that exhibit squealing, which is also audible on playback and affects recording. Here's my full story about it. It turned out that this phenomenon is called "scrape flutter" (the audible part) and is caused by dried up lubricant.

In the last post of my thread there's a link which leads to a Tape Project post which contains a link to a journal:

http://www.richardhess.com/tape/hist...urnal_39-2.pdf

where the problem of lubrication dry-up was exposed. Among the suggestions found there, was to use jojoba oil (in place of sperm whale oil), so maybe your "car wax" worked in a similar way.

Could you explain in greater details how you applied it, e.g. with what kind of soaking technique, what exact type of car wax etc. ?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-13-2012, 03:43 PM
Pentium100's Avatar
Pentium100 Pentium100 is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania
Posts: 2,265
Yes, post the method used.

I have a couple of reel tapes that squeal because of dry lubrican. I placed one in a ziplock bag with some water in it (but in such a way that the tape is not in water. After some time in the bag with a lot of humidity the tape started to squeal less, so I put it back and will wait another week and see what I get.

The box of the tape states that the tape has to be kept in 45-75% humidity, but the humidity in my room in winter is 6-25% so that probably cause the lubricant to dry out.

Using car wax would probably be faster (no need to wait for weeks) and longer lasting (maybe it won't dry out as fast).
__________________
R2R: Akai GX636, Электроника-004, Revox A77, Юпитер МК-106С, Снежеть-301, National RQ-115, Uher 4400 IC, Aidas 9M, АСТРА 110С - Cassette: Technics RS-BX646, Sony WM-D6C, Marantz PMD430, Sony WM-EX606 - VHS: Siemens FM739 (SVHS), Sharp VC-MH704, Panasonic AG-7330 (SVHS) - Radio: Latvija M, Leak Troughline Stereo, Siemens B8 - Record player: Technics SL-D20, JVC L-E5 - LD: Pioneer CLD-2850 - MD: Sony MZ-RH1 - Amp: Denon PMA-1080R, Hitachi HA-37 - Other: dbx 224, 400xg, 3bx-ds 500char limit is here
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:15 PM
Velktron's Avatar
Velktron Velktron is online now
Dream tape never ends
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yurope
Posts: 3,289
I'd like to see exactly what ingredients are contained in this "car wax", as there are several different types, including abrasive ones.

Often they contain a mixture of synthetic and natural waxes in suspension with silicones, not entirely unlike some shoe and leather care products or even some shampoos.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:29 PM
AnalogueTim AnalogueTim is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 325
How about baking tapes, i found something interesting, maybe can workhttp://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:34 PM
Pentium100's Avatar
Pentium100 Pentium100 is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogueTim View Post
How about baking tapes, i found something interesting, maybe can workhttp://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html
Baking is done to get the humidity out of tapes because certain tape binders absorb water from the air and turn into goo.

On the other hand, my tapes dried out.
__________________
R2R: Akai GX636, Электроника-004, Revox A77, Юпитер МК-106С, Снежеть-301, National RQ-115, Uher 4400 IC, Aidas 9M, АСТРА 110С - Cassette: Technics RS-BX646, Sony WM-D6C, Marantz PMD430, Sony WM-EX606 - VHS: Siemens FM739 (SVHS), Sharp VC-MH704, Panasonic AG-7330 (SVHS) - Radio: Latvija M, Leak Troughline Stereo, Siemens B8 - Record player: Technics SL-D20, JVC L-E5 - LD: Pioneer CLD-2850 - MD: Sony MZ-RH1 - Amp: Denon PMA-1080R, Hitachi HA-37 - Other: dbx 224, 400xg, 3bx-ds 500char limit is here
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:51 PM
AnalogueTim AnalogueTim is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium100 View Post
Baking is done to get the humidity out of tapes because certain tape binders absorb water from the air and turn into goo.

On the other hand, my tapes dried out.
You're right, i think mines need baking, i have cassettes looking good with nice tape but the heads are very dirty after 5 min of playing, maybe they get humid, the residues are quite hard to remove.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:54 PM
Pentium100's Avatar
Pentium100 Pentium100 is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogueTim View Post
You're right, i think mines need baking, i have cassettes looking good with nice tape but the heads are very dirty after 5 min of playing, maybe they get humid, the residues are quite hard to remove.
Baking will melt the cassette.

Try putting the cassette in silica gel for a few days or weeks, maybe it will get all the moisture out.
__________________
R2R: Akai GX636, Электроника-004, Revox A77, Юпитер МК-106С, Снежеть-301, National RQ-115, Uher 4400 IC, Aidas 9M, АСТРА 110С - Cassette: Technics RS-BX646, Sony WM-D6C, Marantz PMD430, Sony WM-EX606 - VHS: Siemens FM739 (SVHS), Sharp VC-MH704, Panasonic AG-7330 (SVHS) - Radio: Latvija M, Leak Troughline Stereo, Siemens B8 - Record player: Technics SL-D20, JVC L-E5 - LD: Pioneer CLD-2850 - MD: Sony MZ-RH1 - Amp: Denon PMA-1080R, Hitachi HA-37 - Other: dbx 224, 400xg, 3bx-ds 500char limit is here
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-13-2012, 05:00 PM
Velktron's Avatar
Velktron Velktron is online now
Dream tape never ends
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yurope
Posts: 3,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium100 View Post
Baking will melt the cassette.
Tell me about it

Electric oven without convention + poor temperature control + metal dish = not very good for, well, pretty much ALL components of a cassette

On the other hand, the OPs suggestion seems good for a related -but different- problem. The hard thing is getting the lube/wax evenly on all the length of the tape, in particular without having to unwind and coat every inch of it by hand or some weird contraption, that's why I'm curious about the technique used. I suppose the reels were removed from the actual shell and placed in a sort of waxy bath or somesuch?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-13-2012, 05:07 PM
AnalogueTim AnalogueTim is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium100 View Post
Baking will melt the cassette.

Try putting the cassette in silica gel for a few days or weeks, maybe it will get all the moisture out.
Good tip, i'll try that. Thanks!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-13-2012, 05:16 PM
Warped Bezel's Avatar
Warped Bezel Warped Bezel is offline
Learn about the B's and the C's
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nowhere *everybody knows this is
Posts: 13,139
Get the audio offen and build it a coffin.

Not even a benefit potluck at the First Church Of The Revised Avatar and God's Maaco will save it.
__________________
Music Matinee goes Deep Into The Groove...Rory Gallagher http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread....294#post445294 A Maxi-Mini Matinee!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:59 AM
Villee Villee is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vantaa, Finland
Posts: 175
for Velktron:


I assume that my "car wax treatment" is pretty much the same as Lance Lawson´s "Nufinish treatment" to sticky reel tapes. The funny thing about the car wax I used is that it was 15 years old (named "GT WAX"), so doubt it woud be available anymore.

However, here´s the contents of the wax:

41% "dissolvent gasoline"
3,5% synthetic polymers
4% "cleaning and polishing substance"
5,2% wax
and it´s PH is 9 so this car wax is a bit alkaline

How I used this wax:

I opened the cassette shell and added this car wax to the tape pancake using cotton swabs. When the pancake didn´t absorb the wax more, I let the pancake be for about ten minutes.

Of course you can drop the whole pancake to the wax but I don´t know if it´s necessarily.

The rest of the car wax which didn´t absorb into tape turned into yellow powder, which I cleaned by rewinding the tape several times and cleaning the tape simultaneously with cotton swabs. I also played the tape in a boombox to see if there were any deposits left, otherwise you can end up to have your tape deck mechanism completely yellow.

After this treatment the tape was shinier and kind of slipperier. Anyhow, the tape works, doesn´t leave deposites and sounds good. The only bad thing is that the tape smells now as car wax ...

And yes, my tape had scrape flutter, which was extremely annoying.

In conclusion you can try to use it, I doubt it would destroy your tapes. This was my first cassette tape which squealed, hope there isn´t more.

Last edited by Villee; 03-14-2012 at 11:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:28 AM
Velktron's Avatar
Velktron Velktron is online now
Dream tape never ends
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yurope
Posts: 3,289
I was actually surprised to read that a -compacted- reel of take can actually be thirsty for wax and actively absorb it

Gotta try this myself...if will also be interesting so see whether this fix is permanent/long term or if the tape will start bleeding wax/oils sooner or later.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:22 AM
Velktron's Avatar
Velktron Velktron is online now
Dream tape never ends
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yurope
Posts: 3,289
Well, I gave it a shot with a couple of my disposable Silver Crown tapes. I used two different products: LIDL W5 Leather Care cream, and LIDL W5 Car Polish.

The Leather Care product included way more waxes and silicates, and had the effect of stopping squealing...but it made the tapes way too slippery. I gotta give the tape time to dry/settle completely on its own before trying again.

The Car Polish one was not so hot: perhaps because it was cheapo and included more soaps than waxes, and so it didn't stop squaling (plus it made the tape hard to turn).

The method I used to apply the products evenly was to use a sacrificial cassette shell on a sacrificial deck (some nasty mono walkman), placing the wax/cream inside the shell, and having the deck FFwd so that the tape self-coats evenly. This also helps automating cleaning/swabbing somewhat.

So, I'd say that good quality waxing/silicating does indeed stop squealing, but can lead to way too slippery tape for most transports (until further notice).
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:33 AM
Skywavebe's Avatar
Skywavebe Skywavebe is online now
Skywave Tape Deck Repair
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bensenville, IL
Posts: 7,101
I would have to say that you may have come across a similar substance to the Nu Finish product and I am in the testing stage of a new product that will only need application. The fix of a cassette is new news but the sticky shed problem has been able to be fixed for about 6 months now unless you talk to ggoat the person who initially brought this to light and he has a tape that was done 18 years ago. Lance has contributed significantly to the testing needed by our group.
__________________
Best regards,

Sam Palermo, BSEE, past Broadcast Engineer
Skywave Tape Deck Repair- Chicago area
(630)616-0932 Office/ 708-334-2260 Cell, E mail:skywavebe@sbcglobal.net
Past Teac/Tascam Lead Service Technician at Chicago Factory Service still doing repairs.
http://www.thumbtack.com/il/bensenvi...tascam-repairs
Need Tape? http://www.splicit.com/index.html, The BEST SM are from Stereomanuals.com!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:04 AM
Villee Villee is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vantaa, Finland
Posts: 175
Well I noticed that the tape was a bit slippery, but it worked fine on my dual capstan CT-F850 Pioneer.

For Skywavebe: I´m not trying to goat Lance, I mentioned that he has done the same thing earlier, but with reel to reel tapes. I wanted to add that the same car wax method works too with cassettes and there´s many alternatives to save defected tapes.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:29 AM
AnalogueTim AnalogueTim is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 325
I just found something very interesting about what can go wrong with magnetic media, very nice article to read http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub54/2what_wrong.html
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:47 AM
Velktron's Avatar
Velktron Velktron is online now
Dream tape never ends
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yurope
Posts: 3,289
@Villee: perhaps in your case it's the dual-capstan setup that saved the day. The tape treated with leather care (which appears to be closer to your car wax product in results) is way too slippery for single-capstan machines. As I said, I will let it "settle" for some time before trying using it again.

As a general note, it seems you need to be very careful about the composition of the product you're using, and the quantities you apply: car waxes seem to contain a lot of solvents that eventually evaporate (it's the primary ingredient) while leather care products do not. Both contain some mixture of waxes and silicon oils, leather care products seem to contain more of those by weight and so you probably need to apply them more sparsely. Some car polishes have large amounts of tensioactives and soaps (up to 10-15%) so they probably aren't very good for the tape or transport, but I guess it depends on the product. Higher end/purer ones must work better.

Edit: heh, about 48 hours after the treatment, the first tape I treated (with the leather care product) is now perfectly playable, no squealing, it doesn't slip anymore, no binding and even records well Of course I'm recording on it on a cheapo boombox/CD combo which has a perm. magnet head, which will scrape off/polish most crud before it reaches the PB/REC head. From the first tests it even sounds OK (for that deck)...so is this a definitive fix?

Last edited by Velktron; 03-18-2012 at 10:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-19-2012, 06:48 AM
Velktron's Avatar
Velktron Velktron is online now
Dream tape never ends
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yurope
Posts: 3,289
Just bumping this to report that the waxy/leather care treatment really seems to work: tapes don't seem to be adversely affected, and you can dose the quantity as needed. With the right quantity, you need no "wax off" phase and the cassettes can be played back almost immediately.

E.g. I lightly waxed some old Audiosonic C90 tapes with an intermittent squaling problem yesterday with a just damp cotton swab pressed against the tape while running it through an open deck, without even dismantling the shell. It made the annoying squeal go away, the tapes were usable immediately and had no excessive slippage/head depositing problems associated with bathing the tape in the waxy solution.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-19-2012, 07:38 AM
ke4mcl's Avatar
ke4mcl ke4mcl is offline
tapeheads.net supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: miami, fl
Posts: 7,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium100 View Post
Baking will melt the cassette.
even very hot water will melt the cases. i was experimenting with dying white cassette cases using laundry dye and hot water. the cassette cases didnt like the hot water very much and warped severely.
__________________
certified hoarder of small plastic ribbon filled rectangles
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Bulk Cassette / Cassette Packaging? Gypsy Farm Records Cassette 2 12-30-2010 07:43 PM



For more Tapeheads affiliates and links, see the Links and Resources page.
Would you like to see your company or site here?  CONTACT US


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2013, Tapeheads.Net. All rights reserved, no use of any element incorporated into this site without express written permission.