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  #21  
Old 09-11-2017, 03:33 PM
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kcbluesman kcbluesman is offline
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Yes, we do the same here...generally we only try to listen to 2-3 per get-together. Even then, we often don't go to the trouble of mounting/aligning them all on the same table for a true comparison. Carts just have so many variables that it's really hard to evaluate them on any basis other than over time and a wide variety of material. That's true for all components, but more true for carts.

We only have one serious gear shop in my area, and they do not allow trials or returns of cartridges other than for defect. In fact, most of the higher-end carts they offer are not even kept in stock.

In any case, I hope that the OP pops back in and provides an update. As I posted a few weeks ago, it's frustrating when someone asks for help with a problem or a decision and then never provides the outcome.
  #22  
Old 09-17-2017, 02:44 PM
Robes Robes is offline
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This thread has allot of info and I've compiled it to that which I got from other forums. Then I'll have a few pages to read through that has more then I need to know within it. I have come up with a list of carts but need to further shorten it.

I'll get back with my list for any input you may wish to add. I'm sure they will all be good picks but I'd like to then go over the subjective qualities as to preferred music.

Thanks so much for this great informative thread I'll be back...

P.S. Haven't received the VPI Prime yet but, Seth at SSD "gave" me a new Ortofon Red so I have something while pursuing a cart. How nice was that!

Robes
  #23  
Old 09-17-2017, 09:26 PM
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Mark J Mark J is offline
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Free is good and similar to the way it used to be.

Back in the day, a mid-level tt would net the buyer an opportunity to have a mid-level cartridge added for a penny. Top end table would provide the buyer a 1 top line cartridge. That is how I got my Stanton 681EE, one penny more than the Dual 1219 with base and dustcover. All factored in so the warehouse could earn their profit number on the complete purchase.

They don't do that anymore, good cartridges are too expensive so getting the Red is a nice piece for you to get started. You will for sure notice the improvement of a great cartridge in that table.
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2017, 08:52 PM
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390FE 390FE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robes View Post
This thread has allot of info and I've compiled it to that which I got from other forums. Then I'll have a few pages to read through that has more then I need to know within it. I have come up with a list of carts but need to further shorten it.

I'll get back with my list for any input you may wish to add. I'm sure they will all be good picks but I'd like to then go over the subjective qualities as to preferred music.

Thanks so much for this great informative thread I'll be back...

P.S. Haven't received the VPI Prime yet but, Seth at SSD "gave" me a new Ortofon Red so I have something while pursuing a cart. How nice was that!

Robes
That was a good gesture giving you a cart like that.

Also in narowing your selection it would help to know what your budget is. This will help others give you some suggestions on what carts to look at & maybe even suggest you save a touch more to step up to a lot better cart.
  #25  
Old 09-19-2017, 02:44 PM
Robes Robes is offline
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Thanks for the reply kcbluesman-

"Finally, don't get overly hung up on cartridge loading or specific voltage gains. If your preamp/phono amp has both MC and MM capabilities, you don't really need to know much more than that as regards gain. "

So, I'm still finding possible cartridges which I have no way of knowing if I could use them, certainly with the VPI Prime but will they work through my Pre Amp? For example, the Dynavector 17D3 Karat MC states: "will work with any phono pre-amp with at least 60dB of gain". Audio-Technica ART9 MC recommends a gain setting of 56dB. There are others. So I still have no idea what the total gain is of the Yamaha C-85 Preamp. I have searched every available service manual on the Yamaha, owners manuals and forum threads available but have never found a guess or mention of it's gain.

Besides yourself ( in this thread), I also had one of the VPI owners suggest the Ortofon 2M Bronze MM and he was given my Yamaha specs also, yet never made mention of them. I believe that may be the only cart that I could within a reasonable doubt trust to work. I just can't get over how a spec as that is not mentioned anywhere...

I'm inclined to think when I come across carts as the examples I mentioned that I best not consider them. I was considering buying used for some but that could be a big loss for me-
Robes
  #26  
Old 09-19-2017, 06:30 PM
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kcbluesman kcbluesman is offline
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I can't be sure regarding the C85, but I own a C4 that I use in my workshop system and I was told by the tech who rebuilt/restored it for the previous owner that it has 60dB of gain for moving coil and 40dB for moving magnet. He measured outputs using a scope. I would guess that the C85 would be the same.

Think of phono gain as "equal to or greater than"...it's ok if it's higher than the manufacturer's recommended gain. If it's way high, you can use the -10dB gain switch. Too low a gain is more of a problem, as the cart will not perform at its best and you will add noise as you turn up the preamp's volume control to get to the desired listening level.

I really think you will have no problems with most MC carts (and no problems with any MM cart).

Last edited by kcbluesman; 09-19-2017 at 06:48 PM.
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