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Turntables and Vinyl Discuss all facets of vinyl, including players, stylii, care and maintenance, and of course... records.

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  #61  
Old 08-31-2017, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Lawson View Post

Carts and tables beyond a certain price threshold of around $500 become a matter of subjectivity. They can sound different but it becomes like all things in hifi a matter of subjective opinion.
Reading what you have to say, just sounds like you donít have a clue about what you are talking about.
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  #62  
Old 09-01-2017, 03:23 AM
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@kcbluesman

Oops, looks like the discussion moved on. Sorry I had no chance to reply - things mundane weighed me down.
To end our discussion - I do not disagree with you at all. I didn't say I don't believe in cleaning at all - I stand by my stockpile of discwasher brushes and use them regularly. I just personally revolve (so to speak) amongst records that I believe do not require a deep clean. I avoid the really dirty ones. The LPs I own I keep clean so I do not think they require a deep clean if they have been standing properly on a shelf, inner sleeve opening perpendicular to album sleeve opening, with some albums additionally protected by a plastic outer sleeve.
  #63  
Old 09-01-2017, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCool4 View Post
Reading what you have to say, just sounds like you donít have a clue about what you are talking about.
Well, well, well then I shall put the ball into your court to demonstrate exactly in what ways I don't know what I'm talking about.
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  #64  
Old 09-01-2017, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCool4 View Post
Reading what you have to say, just sounds like you don’t have a clue about what you are talking about.
Lance did say it CAN sound different, but better? Not exactly always the case, and not always as it relates to price. Just because it's more expensive doesn't always sound better to everybody's own ears.

Audio snobbery is sooooo juvenile.

Last edited by Sawtooth; 09-01-2017 at 08:19 AM.
  #65  
Old 09-01-2017, 09:05 AM
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Better costs more. But higher cost does not always = better.

I have a number of decent, but not elite, turntables (well, maybe with the exception of my modified AR-XA with Magnepan arm and V15III Shibata)...and I get the opportunity to listen to many other tt and cart combinations because I have a "hobby business" repairing and restoring them.

Based on my own experiences, I find that the point at which better turntable performance becomes purely subjective is quite a bit higher than $500.

Lance stated unequivocally that beyond $500, it's all a matter of taste/preference. I disagree, but in the absence of all of us being able to sit in a room with 10 tables ranging in cost from $500 to $5000 and played through the same amplification and speakers, there is no way to "prove" he is wrong.
  #66  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:29 AM
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And I think that it's a matter of taste and experience. To a certain extent, you need to know what to look for in sound - like when you taste wine (now that's snobbery).
So if you don't know what you're looking for, you might not be able to tell the difference.
One time a friend dropped by, I was playing something - some typical rock album - and suddenly he heard the vocals come from between and behind the speakers and the guitar off to the right, but not quite hard right. I liked the look on his face. He never heard a sound stage before.
  #67  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbluesman View Post
Better costs more. But higher cost does not always = better.



Based on my own experiences, I find that the point at which better turntable performance becomes purely subjective is quite a bit higher than $500.

Lance stated unequivocally that beyond $500, it's all a matter of taste/preference.
So far we've not had any examples of mega buck systems trumping lesserbuck systems. But Michael Fremmer did a nice comparison of a new lesserbuck system recently with his own megabuck system. They did sound different and in some passages the lesserbuck I prefferred and in other the megabuck I preferred. So it was a draw IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY9YYkqW8ng
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Last edited by Lance Lawson; 09-01-2017 at 11:11 AM.
  #68  
Old 09-01-2017, 11:22 AM
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Huh? I gave an example, and it wasnt even a megabuck table...probably more like $1000-1200. I'm pretty sure that my upper end tables (which are decidedly not "elite") clearly provide better sound quality than any new $500 table/cart combos. Just my personal experience/opinion...which is obviously different from yours.

I dont pay much attention to Fremmer, but are you implying that he would find an upper tier table no better than a good entry-level table? If so, I will pay even less attention to his commentaries.

I will agree that once you move past $1500-2500, the performance gains become less and less pronounced.

Last edited by kcbluesman; 09-01-2017 at 11:34 AM.
  #69  
Old 09-01-2017, 11:32 AM
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Guys, come on - demonstrations of sound in a youtube video output through a pair of 30 dollar computer speakers are like having sex through an empty roll of toilet paper - what's the point?

I have listened to a few expensivish, if not expensive (probably at around 15 000 dollars) systems and they were "clear" and "neutral" to the point of being boring. Everything was there - space, detail, deep bass, silky highs and all that, but - no cojones in the sound. I'm not saying all megabuck systems will be like that, but that may be a tendency preferred by audiophiles. I like a bit of dirt, colour in my music. I don't want it to be totally transparent.
  #70  
Old 09-01-2017, 11:51 AM
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None of this thread has really gone in the original direction. 4Head has probably lost the will to live and not bothered coming back for a fortnight. Hopefully, he'll come back.

Topic closed.

Kelv
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