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  #1  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:41 AM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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Sony TC-K561S belts

Hi,

I recently bought this Sony TC-K561S deck with melted belts and I was wondering if someone knows the dimensions for the belts. There is a capstan belt and a reel belt. It's a basic, simple, model, a lot of Sony decks share the same (or with little alterations) mecha assembly. I know there was a PDF file here on the forum with guides to belts, but I cannot find it. Can anyone please give me the dimensions of the belts ? I know there are kits on ebay, but wanted first to see if I can find a replacement on my local stores. Thank-you.
  #2  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:14 AM
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clamsterdamm clamsterdamm is online now
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That will be a challenge, finding the right belt at a local store which will provide factory specification wow and flutter tolerances. That is a KA1ES variant, and it utilizes the TCM-190VB14 Mechanism and is straight forward to work on.You can always measure with a string and find the size. It has to be a flat, even and balanced or you'll hear poor sound quality. You could always take a picture of the mechanism and upload it here. Yes some Sony decks do share similar mechanisms and belt sizes. You could always get a kit from Marrs Communications. That is an excellent source for quality belts.
  #3  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:35 AM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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From Mars no. I live in Europe.
  #4  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:57 AM
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clamsterdamm clamsterdamm is online now
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Attached is the service manual for your model. It will be a good 3 head deck once it's serviced.

Kindest Regards
Attached Files
File Type: pdf hfe_sony_tc-k561s_ka1es_service.pdf (4.16 MB, 7 views)
  #5  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:32 PM
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marrscommunications marrscommunications is offline
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Smile

8-12-17

In Stock !

Sorry we have to provide tracking to PayPal so

must use Priority Mail.

Fred m.


Last edited by marrscommunications; 08-12-2017 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Priority
  #6  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:12 PM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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clamsterdamm, thanks, but I already have the service manual. It doesn't specify the dimensions in there. Guess I should order in blind from ebay and hope it'll fit.

About how good it will be, I hope electrically to be better, because mechanically it's very cheap. I didn't have so many decks as most of the guys in here (about 15 in total) and certainly not expensive models (my best being an AKAI GX-75 and a Kenwood KX-9050S), but this Sony deck has the cheapest mechanical assembly from all the decks I had. A lot of plastic, small flywheel (at least it's metal, unlike some cheaper Sony TC-K models that have plastic flywheels), simplified mechanism, poor quality cogs and levers, etc. Even the belts were low quality, that's why they melted. :D But, as I said (I haven't got a chance to listen to it, it looks in good shape otherwise), I hope it sounds at least decent from an electrical point of view.
  #7  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:20 PM
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Pacific Stereo Pacific Stereo is offline
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Very few belts will give decent wow/flutter performance on this mech. The only one I would use is from Marrs. Good luck with the eBay kit.

And melted belts are very common across all levels of quality and manufacturers.
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  #8  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:53 PM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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I don't even know if Marrs ship to my country. Besides, shipping and VAT will cost the belts twice the price of the deck. Marrs may provide good quality belts, but not finacially feasable to cheap decks.

Last edited by Phaenius; 08-12-2017 at 01:58 PM.
  #9  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:40 PM
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DTC1000 DTC1000 is online now
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You can find the two belts at ebay Germany.
  #10  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:01 PM
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I've never understood this mentality. If I got a Dragon for $10, and then complained that repair would be double the price of the Dragon...

Put money into a junky dubber? Nah. Put a reasonable amount of money in to a decent 3-head deck? Absolutely. Put crummy belts in the deck, and the "inexpensive Sony" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Folks sell decks for bargain prices because in their eyes, no one can service them and they thus must be junk. "Sucker! I made $10 offa you!"
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I RESTORE VINTAGE AUDIO AND VIDEO GEAR. Master technician for Concept, Quadraflex, Calibre, Pioneer and Sony. Endorsed by Richard Schram for Concept product restoration. Factory technician for both Yamaha and JVC. Sonics consultant for Denon. Pacific Stereo store manager, service manager, Central Service lead tech, liquidator at our demise. Pacific Stereo curator. Infinity IRS dealer. Music buyer for one of the first CD retailers in the USA. Authorized servicer for virtually every brand on the planet at one time or another. Music addict. Mastering & recording engineer, weaned on a Neve (no other console sounds like a Neve!). Industry-respected ears. Head Tapehead.

Need vintage audio & video repair and restoration, or unobtanium semiconductors and parts? Ask me! And do visit the website: pacificstereo.net
  #11  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:57 AM
Balaur Balaur is offline
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Just a word of caution regarding eBay belts.

I've recently restored a mint TC-WR645S with melted belts. It uses some variations of the TCM-190 mechanism. While not too impressed about the mechanics, I have to admit that the deck is really nicely organized and the service is easy to do.

I've bought a cheap kit (4 belts + pinch rollers) from eBay (not from the German seller though) and everything went smoothly.
However, when listening, I've found the wow & flutter to be extremely high - ~0.25% RMS and ~0.6% peak.
I spent quite a lot of time trying to understand why and when frustrated when not finding an obvious reason, I've ordered a cheap belt kit from another eBay supplier (again, not the German one). Yes, you may say that this is not the best idea, as the quality remains unknown.
When installing the new belt kit, the wow & flutter went down to ~0.1% RMS and ~0.2% peak.

I've ordered a kit from the nice lady and gentleman @ Marrs to see whether the deck can reach its stated ~0.07% RMS.
  #12  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:04 AM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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Rest assured Pacific Stereo, Sony put standard (and no state-of-the-art) belts in their TC-K561S decks. They have to, it's a budget deck, they cut the corners on pretty much everything. Again, don't have that expensive decks, but this Sony is with the worst mechanics from all I have. Paying top dollar for premium belts on a standard deck it's like fitting the most expensive tires on your regular car. I don't know why the hate, Pacific Stereo, I didn't attack you or anyone else, don't expect to understand everything and everyone's thinking or reasoning behind everything. All I asked in the topic was the belts' dimensions, not some study about resistance, elasticity, material fatigue and so on. Just the dimensions, so that I can order them from ebay.de or ebay.co.uk or even find them at local stores that sell all sorts of things and then compare. Of course I won't find original belts, but again, any belt of correct dimensions will do the job to some extend. It's a standard deck people, it's not a Dragon, I love it just as well, but it can't have a good wow and flutter, no matter what belt I will put in it, this come from other things as well, not just the belts (especially the capstan belt).

Balaur, did you notice the high wow and flutter at worst (0.25% RMS) by listening, or just by measurements ?

Last edited by Phaenius; 08-13-2017 at 02:09 AM.
  #13  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:43 AM
Balaur Balaur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaenius View Post
Balaur, did you notice the high wow and flutter at worst (0.25% RMS) by listening, or just by measurements ?
I've noticed something is wrong when testing and listening. Deck was serviced at the best of my abilities (and I'm rather thorough and know my way around.)
Then I've measured the W&F using a 3KHz tape (sourced from eBay and presented as recorded on a Sony TC-K555ESJ - 0.022% RMS) and the wfgui - "Software Wow and Flutter Meter"

BTW, I'm looking for a good deal just like any other guy. In fact this deck cost me a total of 25 euros delivered. But it amazed me to see how just a simple pair of belts made a steaming POS from a rather nice deck (that I would have really liked to have when young). It's a shame really, especially since it's just a matter of luck. The second pair of "good" belts are quite reasonable and really inexpensive. Generally, I had good luck with eBay belts, but not with the first ones. I guess that the TCM-190 transport is really sensitive to the belt quality.
I'm quite looking forward for the Marrs belts.
  #14  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:55 AM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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Your nickname has Romanian relevance. Do you live there ? Or anywhere in Europe ? Because last time I tried, Marrs didn't deliver to Romania.
  #15  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:18 AM
mtsaclander mtsaclander is offline
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I have bought from revox_de and was happy with the idler tire for my Yamaha KX-1200u

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-TC-K561...sAAOxylpNTV~PP

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-TC-K561...QAAOxyaTxTTNxN
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  #16  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:35 AM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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I know revox_de, bought from him in the past. He also doesn't publicly disclose dimensions. If going blindly, there is http://www.ebay.de/itm/Belts-kit-SON...53.m1438.l2649

Only 9.49 (shipping included)
  #17  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:39 AM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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I know there was a list here, on the forum, with belts dimensions. I can't find it though.
  #18  
Old 08-13-2017, 07:59 AM
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Skywavebe Skywavebe is offline
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PRB says the belts are these-
TC-K561$ Belt FRW8.0
Belt SCX2.9

The flat belt is 8.0" X .150" X .023"
Other than Marrs, I don't thing you will find this thickness of belt.

The SCX2.9 is .046" thickness square belt

Nakmandan has worked on this machine and he might have something to say about what works best. Getting belts that are too thick can upset the wow and flutter figures and you might need to put a larger belt in if one fits and can be found to maintain the right tension from motor to flywheel.
Taking out the Flywheel and using AMS oil in the bearing would help.

Kits from E bay are a lot of the time a waste of time.

The fact that they put .023" belts in is because they could at that time get them that size which is real thin. Now days they only guy who will have near that thickness is Marrs. I know the prices are not what you expect but then in Europe try finding that same thickness and then get them from that source- beware that people will sub on you without your knowledge.
The thickness does make a difference even on open reel. I took a wrong belt off a X300R recently (W&F at .25%) and with a good belt it went down near .045%. This is likely to happen in cassette too and I have seen it. It also makes a big difference what oil you put in the capstan bearing- I have seen values drop in order of magnitude when good oil is used.
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Last edited by Skywavebe; 08-13-2017 at 08:12 AM.
  #19  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:12 AM
Phaenius Phaenius is offline
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Thanks, Skywavebe. Marrs has a very complicated and twisted website, not easy to order from it, but if I understood correctly, the price of 2 belts for my deck, plus shipping, plus VAT equals an enormous amount, so won't buy from them. I didn't know about how important belts are in W&F, but I must take my chances here, they are a fraction of what would cost from Marrs.

I will try and lubricate the capstan. Will use standard oil for fine mechanisms, about 2 dollars a bottle. Capstan will thank me, it's better than nothing.

Last edited by Phaenius; 08-13-2017 at 08:27 AM.
  #20  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:24 AM
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Pacific Stereo Pacific Stereo is offline
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@Phaneus: There's no hate involved, I just don't understand the mentality, and said so. I was authorized Sony service for years, I know quite well what was used in that deck in terms of rubber quality. The concept that appears to evade you is that most of the replacement belts that are available today are nowhere near that level of quality due to several factors that have been discussed in great detail elsewhere on Tapeheads. The deck simply won't meet spec and stability issues will be audible if you put an unsuitable belt in the unit.

If you can stand that, awesome. I can barely tolerate a deck that comes in at 0.1% weighted, much less the 0.25% or worse that deck will do with an eBay belt in it. The PRB belt at 0.23 thick might just cut it; other that that, Fred's belts are going to be about it. But those cost too much money, apparently. So, I'm afraid you get what you get.
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I RESTORE VINTAGE AUDIO AND VIDEO GEAR. Master technician for Concept, Quadraflex, Calibre, Pioneer and Sony. Endorsed by Richard Schram for Concept product restoration. Factory technician for both Yamaha and JVC. Sonics consultant for Denon. Pacific Stereo store manager, service manager, Central Service lead tech, liquidator at our demise. Pacific Stereo curator. Infinity IRS dealer. Music buyer for one of the first CD retailers in the USA. Authorized servicer for virtually every brand on the planet at one time or another. Music addict. Mastering & recording engineer, weaned on a Neve (no other console sounds like a Neve!). Industry-respected ears. Head Tapehead.

Need vintage audio & video repair and restoration, or unobtanium semiconductors and parts? Ask me! And do visit the website: pacificstereo.net
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