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  #21  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:19 AM
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Regarding the software recommended for measuring wow and flutter, what equipment will I need? I'm going to a friends house, since I don't have a PC, and wants to make sure I'll bring everything necessary. I've never seen the software before, and have no idea how it's going to work! Thank you!
  #22  
Old 07-16-2017, 10:15 AM
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Matcs Matcs is offline
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You just need a pure 3khz tone to be recorded. Did your friend have a sound card with rca connectors? Xlr, Jack/Mini jack input?
Ask him,cables adapters are really all you need.

You will have the choice with Wfgui to save the logging and the demodulated signal. They will be saved in the folder containing wfgui.exe
Best to save both. Upload then the log here.

You can yet record the signal on tape at home with your mac. Even, just post the tape replay as wav here.
have you tried running it with Wine ? http://www.tapeheads.net/archive/index.php/t-32287.html

Last edited by Matcs; 07-16-2017 at 10:50 AM.
  #23  
Old 07-16-2017, 10:30 AM
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20 minutes 3 kHz https://www.mediafire.com/?plcrh59v1gc707d
  #24  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:10 PM
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Thank you for your offer of throwing this into the software for me, since I don't have a PC. Here is the recorded 20 minute 3kHz tone from the Ampex 601. It's hard to listen to, the wow and flutter is so obvious!

https://we.tl/Yhq1NDtjSU
  #25  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:57 PM
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Terrible http://imgur.com/a/Iiv73
http://imgur.com/YETTULd

Huge distortion.
The level is not constant. really needs an in depth service.

/ you were saturating the line input. http://imgur.com/a/QKYXE

Last edited by Matcs; 07-16-2017 at 03:24 PM.
  #26  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:22 PM
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I actually had to go in through the mic input because of the cables I had on hand. Would it be worthwhile to test again using the line input?
  #27  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:32 PM
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No. No use to re-record it. It will be the same W&F figures.

Last edited by Matcs; 07-16-2017 at 03:38 PM.
  #28  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:47 PM
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Unhappy

::sigh:: So what do you think, fellow tapeheads? Does this machine's W&F results make it a lost cause? Is it worthwhile continuing down this road?
  #29  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:07 PM
Pure Sinewave Pure Sinewave is offline
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3K Waveform Ampex 601

Opened the wav file with "Goldwave" and streched it out and it resembled a triangle rather than a sinewave waveform. Amplitude issues may be transport related, but still expected a sinewave.
  #30  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:35 PM
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I agree, that the wave didn't sound so much like a sine wave, but rather a triangle or sawtooth wave. I think it's probably just that I used the mic input instead of the line input, and so was distorting the signal.
  #31  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:19 AM
speaker dave speaker dave is online now
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Lost cause? No, you are back where you started with a machine with high Wow and Flutter. You need to chase down all the usual suspects: lumps and bumps on the connecting wheels (motor spindle and capstan flywheel, capstan itself. Also the condition of the pinch wheel and finally take up tension could be part of this.

Try a few experiments while recording the tone and listening to the off-tape playback. Reduce take up tension by dragging the rim of the take up wheel just enough to nearly offset the forward tension. Increase and then decrease the pinch roller pressure against the capstan. Does that make any difference? Also, again clean every wheel. Listen to the wheels in play. Do you hear any thumps as things rotate? Put a fingernail on the capstan as it rotates. Do you feel any eccentricity at all?

Use your senses. With this much W&F you should be able to discover the root cause.

Good Luck
  #32  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:25 AM
earczar earczar is online now
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Lets face it, you didnt need that program to tell you that there was wow and flutter, more then one person said change out the rubber. This is an old maschine, does this still have all the original caps in it? If it does then it needs recappin now. This model has taken a beating since everyone Rips these apart and chucks the transport because they dont want to invest in parts like rubber. Then they try to sell the tube preamp for crazy prices and they sit there.
I like these because i read the 602 was used on Dylans Basement tapes, despite the Revox on the cover. probably because it was set up and didnt need to be messed with. Quite sure you can have a great piece of history here with a few bucks. Get Terry to build the parts, it will be worth it, your half way there.
  #33  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:53 AM
speaker dave speaker dave is online now
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From your tones I measure about 0.17% rms flutter (the average) but high peak flutter around 0.29% max. Even though the Ampex spec doesn't suggest you should expect real low flutter, I think this machine should do considerably better as the peak flutter number is out of line. Ampex was also known for giving very conservative specs so you should expect to exceed their minimum numbers.

I still wonder about excessive tension or slipping of hardened rubber parts.

Regards,
David
  #34  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:43 AM
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I am in agreement with the others. You have a potentially excellent machine, that also happens to carry some history. And it's a tube model. Bonus!

Like has been said, clean all shafts and bearings well, re-lubricate with that Synthetic motor oil. Have any and all rubber rebuilt by Terry, our rubber wheel guy. Clean all metal rotating shafts that come into contact with said rubber wheels/rollers.

Once the W&F figures are down, then dive in and start a recap. Undoubtedly, there are going to be at least one multi-section can capacitor/filter. I have a source that makes these new, to original size specs for mounting ease.

Once upon a time, Ampex was revered as the best machines in the US.
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:00 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. I really appreciate it. I have family in town for a couple of days, but as soon as they leave, I'll dive right back in!

This forum is amazing.
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