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  #1  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:27 PM
oldnotbold oldnotbold is offline
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Frustrated Butchered screw heads

An R2R virgin and my very first post, so please forgive the doubtless repetition of the obvious.....
Have just acquired a TEAC 32-2B which looked complete and presentable. Began a systematic stripdown and clean, and the following is a cautionary tale which, as I said, has probably been covered many times but reflects my own experience thus far.
On any Japanese machine, beware of any and all Phillips-looking screw heads with a tiny dot!! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE A PHLLIPS DRIVER OR BIT TO TRY AND REMOVE THESE!!!
Once I took the tape head cover off, the four (out of six) of these that remained and should have held the head assembly on were so badly butchered as to be impossible to remove with any screwdriver I possessed. The little dot signifies 'JIS' (Japanese Industry Standard) which makes it subtly different from a 'normal' Phillips in that if you use a standard Phillips driver to remove it, the driver simply 'cams up' (ie. slides out of the head socket) and in so doing progressively wears and finally destroys any possibility of purchase.
The solution? Seemingly an expensive set of special drivers or bits, or if you are skilled enough and prepared to take the risk, grinding and modifying a standard Phillips to 'get away with it'. If you don't, you are faced with mole grips/drillings and screw extractors/anything else you can think of to remove them and a large dollop of prayer.
As I said, doubtless covered many times before, but if it reaches one newbie it will be worth it....
  #2  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:47 PM
Retrotape Retrotape is offline
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Screw heads

Hi - I have had a few Teac machines in for service over the years with very badly chewed up screw heads. Whatever the type of screw, some people somehow manage to chew them up by using the wrong tools.

I had a Teac X-10 in for service last year with screw heads so messed up I couldn't even get the case off. One screw had to be drilled out in the end when every other trick failed!
  #3  
Old 01-09-2017, 04:48 PM
vintagepc vintagepc is offline
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Tip: Makita (and possibly other) japanese planers sometimes use these for adjustment. They also ship JIS screwdrivers in the parts kits for these. Possibly a cheap source of them if you lurk in old tool flea markets.

A similar beware is Pozidrive, use a regular Philips in those and they will also cam out. Recognizable by the additional X scratched between the bits of the + on the screw head.
  #4  
Old 01-09-2017, 05:59 PM
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Pacific Stereo Pacific Stereo is offline
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You MUST use a JIS driver when working on Japanese products. The Phillips driver was actually designed to cam out with torque and you cannot use it on JIS screws. You can use a JIS driver on a Philips screw, but you cannot use a Philips driver on a JIS screw.
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  #5  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:39 PM
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Pentium100 Pentium100 is offline
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Then use a small flat screwdriver. Or if the cross screwdriver comes out of the screw, you are not using enough force to hold it down.

Well, most of the time. I am not going to wait up to a week to get a special screwdriver if I need to fix this now.
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:03 PM
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Nakmandan Nakmandan is offline
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I'm all for using the right tools but I bought a whole set of JIS drivers and never use any of them because every screw I try them on doesn't have a very positive fit. They just have a very loose fit that doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever. The set I bought was supposedly a good one too. Very disappointed.
  #7  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:23 AM
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Skywavebe Skywavebe is offline
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I have been using Xcelite XST drivers which are Philips for many years and there are times that some hack put the screws in with an impact driver but in 99% of the screws all come out and I use the black Philips drivers on head screws all the time.
Maybe it is just a matter of using K mart like tools.
If you want to be a pro the first thing to do is go over o All-spec or some tool seller and get the XST kit for your shop.
Here is the place to help you.
http://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Hand...FQGqaQodE9QCMA
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:23 AM
williamsunique williamsunique is offline
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I have had success removing chewed up screws by gripping the outside of the screwhead with a small pair of side cutters and turning.

Paul
  #9  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:25 AM
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Pacific Stereo Pacific Stereo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakmandan View Post
I'm all for using the right tools but I bought a whole set of JIS drivers and never use any of them because every screw I try them on doesn't have a very positive fit. They just have a very loose fit that doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever. The set I bought was supposedly a good one too. Very disappointed.
That's odd. Mine fit like gloves and work exactly like one would expect.
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I RESTORE VINTAGE AUDIO AND VIDEO GEAR. Master technician for Concept, Quadraflex, Calibre, Pioneer and Sony. Endorsed by Richard Schram for Concept product restoration. Factory technician for both Yamaha and JVC. Sonics consultant for Denon. Pacific Stereo store manager, service manager, Central Service lead tech, liquidator at our demise. Pacific Stereo curator. Infinity IRS dealer. Music buyer for one of the first CD retailers in the USA. Authorized servicer for virtually every brand on the planet at one time or another. Music addict. Mastering & recording engineer, weaned on a Neve (no other console sounds like a Neve!). Industry-respected ears. Head Tapehead.

Need vintage audio & video repair and restoration, or unobtanium semiconductors and parts? Ask me! And do visit the website: pacificstereo.net
  #10  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:52 AM
oldnotbold oldnotbold is offline
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Butchered screw heads

Here in England I have just located and bought a set of four 'Vessel' JIS/Phillips bits from www.onlyqualitytools.com in Cambridge.
I am hoping that these will be my salvation should I need to remove any more original screws.
The cost was a relatively modest sub-9 including delivery, considerably less than buying a set of dedicated screwdrivers from outside the UK.
  #11  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:43 AM
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Nakmandan Nakmandan is offline
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Well, to be fair, the set I bought is by Moody, made in USA, and it's only size #1 and smaller, so they don't get used much. I really should get a #2 JIS driver. For all of my small fastener needs I use German made Wiha, which I really like.

A few years ago I went on a tool buying spree for automotive work and passed on every Chinese made tool I found. If it wasn't made in USA, Germany or Japan it sat on the shelf. What was really disappointing was when I went to the military exchange to buy Craftsman's professional line of tools. The professional line of combination wrenches is now made in China while the standard line right next to it on the shelf was still made in USA. Oh the pro line was pretty, shiny chrome with the long skinny handles but seeing made in China on them killed the deal. NO SALE!
  #12  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:01 AM
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Skywavebe Skywavebe is offline
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Good for you Dan,
I have had open end wrenches crack off. The harden steel drill bit bend over and sockets that broke apart and I don't even do automotive which is even more stressful tot he tools. This is why pile out of places when the snap on tool truck shows up.
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Best regards,

Sam Palermo, BSEE and ProSquad Member
Skywave Tape Deck Repair- Chicago area
(630)616-0932 Office/ Email:skywavebe@sbcglobal.net
Past Teac/Tascam Lead Service Technician at Chicago Factory Service still doing repairs.
http://s609729863.onlinehome.us/tape...uipment-repair
Now accepting MC, Visa, Discover Cards!
  #13  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:50 AM
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Ghitulescu Ghitulescu is offline
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I also met variations of (let's call) Philips head. With point, with X, no point, no X. Without being top pro, my tools are of a good quality, like Wiha, Proxxon etc. Yet I still have to check whether a certain screwdriver or bit fits tightly the screw, and not always the Pozidriv screw had the best fit with a Pozidriv, and so on.
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:11 AM
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macman007 macman007 is offline
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Crazy as it sounds I have only had the issue with JIS screws where someone before me torqued them down so tight the threads stretched in the screws or the hole itself.

Most all the time my good Snap-On flank drive brand screwdrivers will dig in and not 'cam out' or butcher the heads. Even marginally damaged JIS Phillips screws will come out using the Snap On drivers.

I used to have the German-Made Wiha (I believe) screw driver sets with different color grips that had a form or non-skid and were ergonomically made for maximum hand grip in all lengths and sizes. They were very expensive and even better than the Sanp-On's I have/had.

Of course all that's stuff gone now, along with 100K$ in other auto tools I bought over a period of 30 years were stolen at the worst time, when they were uninsured in 2013, never to be seen, heard from or located again. Obviously someone else needed them more than I did...

Between that, failing health and the rest in between, I was never to work professionally as a mechanic again. Just the logistics of starting from square one and buying all the tools I would need daily make it impossible, not even considering the other issues of health and so forth.

Still I will be on the lookout for the drivers Sam linked to along with more popularly used Xcellite drivers and tools used for working on audio gear when I have the extra funds available.
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Last edited by macman007; 01-10-2017 at 11:14 AM.
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