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Old 12-22-2016, 08:12 PM
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Kacansas51 Kacansas51 is offline
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Originally Posted by Turbofiat124 View Post
Gee, I thought I was the only person who liked the Moody Blues!

The Rock and Roll hall of fame is just like any other entity. Like the Nobel peace price for example. Like they say opinions are like aholes.

Just for example I've heard the Ford Model T was one of the worst cars of all time. Why? I don't know. Considering most cars back then were hand built and sold for thousands of dollars and were only available to the upper 1%. But the model T sold for under $500 and the first affordable car for the working man. So in that regards, it was one of the greatest cars of all time.

The amount of musicians and bands out there have to number in the hundreds of thousands if not over a million so it's rather hard to induct everybody.

But I see where you are coming from.
I have several tapes I made in '69 and '70 maybe '71 of the Moody Blues they really softened up my parents into letting me play "other" stuff loud. Like Led Zepplin 1 & 2, Iron Butterfly and a few even more acid than them. My father was a music professional and I invited him to listen to Stairway to Heaven. I had a very good friend who had waited outside an Oklahoma City, record store to buy that album. He got one from the fist pressing where the song ends in crackle and hiss. Anyway Dad said the changed time 8 times during the song. He had me play it, off tape, 5 times. Later he had a lot of positive things to say about Iron Butterfly's, Butterfly Bleu off the Metamorphosis Album. I love the bass in that one. I hadn't realized till he told me that the really deep notes were an organ lower organ note at the same moment as the lowest bass guitar note. I do love the bass in many pieces of music. The dogs run for cover and I dread the wife coming home but it's fun with Klipsch speakers.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:18 AM
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ke4mcl ke4mcl is offline
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its the rock and roll hall of fame, not the rap hall of fame, not the pop hall of fame.

thats what i have to say
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:56 AM
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Lance Lawson Lance Lawson is offline
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Originally Posted by novabit View Post
'Nobody' is correct. Rap and hip-hop evolved the same way white artists ripped off old blues and soul music. All your precious rock n roll has roots in black Americans innovating well before Elvis, the moody blues, the Beatles, or led Zepplin made it popular for a white audience.

No wonder there's so much intolerance in America still today. People here don't even understand the history or the very music they record to tape day after day!
Regardless of where Rap started it still IMO sucks on a music level and on a cultural level. What exactly is so endearing to a genre where the constituents are blowing each other's brains out. It's just chock full of socially redeeming values.
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Old 12-23-2016, 01:58 PM
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novabit novabit is offline
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Originally Posted by Lance Lawson View Post
Regardless of where Rap started it still IMO sucks on a music level and on a cultural level. What exactly is so endearing to a genre where the constituents are blowing each other's brains out. It's just chock full of socially redeeming values.
Well, I guess you'll have to 1) read a book about it, 2) watch a documentary about it, or, god forbid 3) talk to someone who's more knowledgeable than either of us about it.

As for blowing brains out, that's a small segment of the rap/ hip-hop genre (I assume you mean gangster rap, which I'm not fond of either). There's plenty of modern, intelligent hip-hop out there, but like so much rock music today, it's not what gets played out in everyday media/radio (at least in most parts of the USA).

I also don't listen to much Country music but I can understand it on some levels... except maybe the constant drunkenness or spouse cheating. Then again, I suppose rock music is "chock full" of much more redeeming values such as hookers and cocaine use.... but that's okay I guess. Oh, and there's plenty of "rock" music that crosses the dark side with references to fighting and killing etc.., but that's just social commentary, right? An art form? Not meant to be taken seriously? Hmmmm.

Anyway..... as for Rock Hall of Fame -- it is more about popular music in general, as "rock" and "pop" and "soul" etc have really merged in recent decades.
Old 12-23-2016, 02:17 PM
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Big Kelv Big Kelv is offline
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What novabit said!

Emphasis on public perception of genres has merged. It's now 2016 - not 1983 when the R&R HoF was founded and hip-hop was still in it's infancy. Any act prior to that year would be eligible as R&R/popular music. May I suggest that the foundation forbids anyone being inducted who came to prominence after that date? 30 years on there are still a few acts prior to that who have slipped the net. How about a blanket induction for any popular act prior to 1983? Even more pointless. They've just kept with the times. How many younger people would pay to visit the museum now if nobody they've ever heard of was in there?

Remember - they have to pay their bills as well.

Rap is here to stay and in years to come they will be (already are) rock & roll. Gangsta is what a lot of people associate with rap. Take the blinkers off.

Regards, Kelv
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:31 PM
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meezer meezer is offline
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boring argument. I can see both sides. hip hop fan who got left behind by the genre. older guys like Lance will never acknowledge that rap belongs in the hall of shame because it showed up too late in their lives and it's a truly vile genre of music when you look at say, the 100 most popular acts. you have to dig to find the good stuff. and dig deep. it's sad. there truly is some great stuff there. Blowout Comb by Digable Planets has been in my top 10 since 21 years ago. sorry about the lack of caps. i'm holding a baby.
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:44 PM
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dr.bo dr.bo is offline
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In my mind, both the Moodies and the Raiders should have been in a long time ago!

The Hall of Fame is great to visit; but if you like the CDs in the gift shop, take a photo and then buy them online, and save around 200% of the price in the Hall

Rust Never Sleeps
Old 12-23-2016, 11:27 PM
Nick Sunn Nick Sunn is offline
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Gene and Lance make some excellent points.

The RRHF is a pile of dog doo!!

THREE DOG NIGHT is not there, yet lightweights like Tom Petty are.

No disrespect to Petty and The Heartbreakers, as I've seen them a number of times.

I am old and I was fortunate to see TDN a number of times.
I'm betting that the roadies for TDN would have been better in concert than Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers!

The Guess Who and even The Grass Roots were way better than Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers!

Petty benefitted from becoming pals with Dylan and being part of the Travelin Wilburys.

Three Dog Night was a really good rock n roll band. If you were around back then and did get to see them, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
They sold a lot of concert tickets and sold more than a few records, eight tracks, reels, and cassettes back in the day.
I don't think if you combined Led Zeppelin's #1 hit songs with Bruce Springsteen's and Tom Petty's and AEROSMITH's #1 hit songs, would you even come close to the number of #1 hits that THREE DOG NIGHT had!!!
It is a complete injustice that THREE DOG NIGHT is not part of the RRHF!
Only The BEATLES, CREEDENCE CLEARWATER, and The ROLLING STONES came closest to the number one hits of THREE DOG NIGHT during their time!
THREE DOG NIGHT should be in the HALL of FAME!!
Old 12-24-2016, 01:42 PM
nitrous nitrous is offline
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You're right Nick. Three Dog Night taught the other bands in the late 60s how to be proper rock bands! The Grass Roots, Guess Who, the Raiders & Moody Blues were all terrific. As were many others. Look at a Billboard or Cash Box Top 100 Hits or LP list from the late 60s. Virtually any artist on any of those weekly lists would be a Number One chart topper and star compared to todays' artists. It's really quite remarkable regarding the quality & quantity of great musical artists that performed & recorded in the mid & late 60s and early 70s.

Last edited by nitrous; 12-24-2016 at 01:44 PM.
Old 12-24-2016, 02:23 PM
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Kacansas51 Kacansas51 is offline
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I like Three Dog Night a lot. I like Tom Petty a lot. and I could fill the space on this server of all my Likes a lot. Do they belong in RRHOF? I don't know. But I think both were influential on the "popular" and rock music scene. Petty had singles in the top 40 during Disco mania. That is an accomplishment. As has been said TDN was in the top 40 against powerful competition. Petty wrote a lot of his material. TDN did "covers" of older material of which they did their own arrangements. That is done in all kinds of music and is recognized as original work. Are they the same, No. Influential, Yes.
My problem with today's music is the seeming lack of variety. Back in the late 60's I could listen to R&B, folk, all kinds of rock, all kinds of pop in the same evening on the same station. Station directors to day seem to want to stress on kind of music only. I haven't watched MTV or VH1 or whatever in so long I can't comment. I suspect that what may be "wrong" is a lack of the kind of open minded producers of music that were around back before 1990's. Also another problem which has to influence things is the cost of producing an album today. Does anyone actually sell "singles" like the 45's I bought in great number back in the 60's through to the 80's? I wonder how much a single would cost today. I was scared when they started being a dollar.
Things have changed a LOT in music but not all for the worse. Digital music publishing and distribution is getting started with a lot of resistance from Big Money players like Sony Music Group and others like them. I hope it continues to grow. My children and grandchildren like portions of my music collection but not all of it. I think that is wonderful!
Alan C. W.

X-1000R, X-7R disassembled, RS-1506, Kenwood KX-W4060 cassette, linear tracking turntable & 2 Klipsch KLF-10's. Into audio and R2R for 55 years since I was 11 & built my first circuit
Old 12-24-2016, 02:45 PM
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dey93254 dey93254 is offline
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Three Dog Night from 69 to 75 had 21 top 40 hits 3 which hit number 1. Joy To The World, 2 Black & White and 3 Mama Told Me Not to Come. That is a lot of charting for such a short time. However They did not write any of their hits, where Tom Petty has so I can see why he made it there, but they should be in there as well. Not many of the yesteryear artist get the respect they deserve, while some get more than they should. IMHO

"lets get the flux capacitor a good waxing as well to improve the electron flow through the quadiphile dynamic harmonics stabilizer........"

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Old 12-25-2016, 04:28 AM
Nick Sunn Nick Sunn is offline
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I would imagine that most of you in the USA over a certain age do remember the Beverly Hillbillies episode in 1965 with The Enemys.
Cory Wells was in The Enemys.
BEVERLY HILLBILLIES (Whisky A GoGo 1965) two minutes or so from that episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD9V1bh7HFA

MOJO WOMAN (45 rpm single) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx1YvSZ2P0E

there are other songs, not particularly great but about average for non-top bands of that midsixties era.
MY DUES HAVE BEEN PAID https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6drl2V02f4
HEY JOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJTReoWxV_w
You can see there is a super singer with a great ability to be distinctively expressive in a seasoned rythmn and blues , soulful style.
The collection of people that did make up Three Dog Night were all very talented and had seasoning from having played in very good unknown groups prior to forming TDN.

HERE ARE A FEW GREAT TDN songs that you'll want to listen to if you are new to their stuff.

A CHANGE IS GONNA COME (best version of this song ever done by anyone)

EASY TO BE HARD live 9-12-69 LA FORUM album version


I CAN HEAR YOU CALLING (Best version, BETTER than BUSH version , as the TDN version is funkier!..........the BUSH version is excellent.)

FEELIN ALRIGHT (better than Traffic's in my opinion)





Three Dog Night did Randy Newman's YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR HAT ON before Tom Jones and Joe Cocker but in my opinion the TDN version is inferior and one of the few songs that they did that has a substandard vocal. They (Cory) tried to comically sound like Randy Newman and it does not work. The music itself is great but that weird vocal sounded lame then and four decades haven't made it any better. It almost sounded like a Practice or Run Through Vocal take that should have been an outtake.
They knew their strengths and concentrated on gathering quality songs, rather than attempting to pen their own lyrics. They were outstanding, usually in getting a great version of that song that became the definitive version of that song. Some were only as equally great as the other's version. They had very few songs that were versions that you'd want to skip when you played their records or tapes.
The competition was fierce and they battled the best in the business for the top of the charts back when that meant something.
Old 12-25-2016, 08:31 PM
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390FE 390FE is offline
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Originally Posted by ke4mcl View Post
its the rock and roll hall of fame, not the rap hall of fame, not the pop hall of fame.

thats what i have to say

And to me It is a purely unabashed money grab to try & stay relevant (and afloat) by trying to grabbing money from another segment & group of people they know spend boat loads of cash on anything to do with that type of "music" (which isn't that a touch racist? yet the race card players haven't even pulled out that card or even seen in for what it is, they have been blinded by show. Go figure, yet it doesn't surprise me one bit).

That said I don't do Rap & not really into Country.

I too like the Moody Blues.

With that out of the way.

What I have a BIG problem with & doesn't sit well with me. Is ANY "Hall of Fame" be it Music and or Sports inducting a person because they died & only for the fact that they kicked the bucket. Not for the fact that they do or don't even have a talented bone in their body. When other people more deserving & those that should be inducted are passed over & over & most if not all those that should be in & have been passed over we could loose today or the next or have already died while still waiting to get in. They DESERVE to be inducted while they are still alive & can enjoy the moment. Just WRONG on all levels. Something just stinks about the whole affair.

I just saw this. I didn't go through the list but topic fit this thread.


Let the debate Rock Out & Roll On...

Last edited by 390FE; 12-25-2016 at 08:34 PM.
Old 12-26-2016, 11:58 AM
katana1100 katana1100 is offline
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Rap is crap

If you consider rap to be music, you might as well consider the sounds
the bad bearing in my dryer to be music, or two alley cats getting it on .
Do rappers know how to sing? No
Can rappers read music ? No
Can rappers play instruments? No
But somehow, people equate screaming profanities as "music"?
Go figure.
Yet, we have groups like the Cars and the B 52's not in.
Hell, look at all the garbage that was let in before Rush was admitted.
Tupac doesn't deserve to be on the same stage as Yes, much less be in the same
It is sad that these talentless arrogant idiots are given more than ten minutes of fame . Kanye Thinks he's a visionary on the level of Walt Disney Steven jobs
And Henry Ford!
If you're a teen and want to piss your parents off,buy it, and crank it up , it'll do the job. Get a Honda, lower it, put a fart can muffler on it, subs in back and drive around at night with the windows down to show how cool you are.
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Old 12-26-2016, 08:58 PM
WolverineBates WolverineBates is offline
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