Tapeheads Tape, Audio and Music Forums
High quality analog audio tape for professionals and enthusiasts alike.

Go Back   Tapeheads Tape, Audio and Music Forums > Non Audio Discussions > The Lounge

The Lounge The place to cool your heels and engage in small talk about whatever suits your interest. No politics or religion, please.

Donate to Tapeheads!
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-21-2016, 01:26 AM
doity's Avatar
doity doity is offline
Hoarder Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
Posts: 698
Rock Hall Of Shame

OK, maybe everyone hasn't read the news that the latest RRHOF inductees include the likes of Tupac and Joan Baez. This after so many questionable and head shaking ones like NWA, Joan Jett, ABBA (who I love), etc.

For the Moody Blues to be overlooked once again is not only stupid but actually makes me sad and makes me question the taste of the people who vote these 'rockers' in. Glad to see that Yes finally made it but they should had been in 25 years ago just based on their 'Fragile' album alone. I mean my God, how many teenagers can say that album was their entryway to rock and roll.

And the Moodies made such beautiful and thoughtful music over the years that they also should had been in 25 years ago. Also, where are some of the great American rock bands of the 70's like Grand Funk, J. Geils, The Cars, REO, BOC, Ted Nugent, etc. who basically lived on the road and were the 'People's Favorites' due to their sheer hard work? Well maybe The Cars came straight out of the gate but you get my point.

And to have thug rappers in there before these groups and others is a real crime. How about some of the bands from the 60's like The Raiders, The Monkees, etc.? Hell, they were more important as stepping stones (no pun intended) as either Tupac or any other rap or pop group like Madonna or who else has gotten in there. What true rock fan would step foot in that place now?

I feel bad for the Moodies as they have a catalog so deep and with so many fans still coming out to see them they must be shaking their heads. I thought it was bad that Kiss was left out for so long and truthfully they should had been in year one. I mean what band besides maybe Zep or The Who typifies Rock and Roll more than Kiss?

What one of the inductees needs to do is to use his/her speech to make a stand and tell the idiots at RS to knock it out and to give credit where credit is due.
  #2  
Old 12-21-2016, 06:45 AM
earl011766's Avatar
earl011766 earl011766 is online now
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 1,090
I try to compare these things to the Baseball HOF, which has, or used to have pretty high standards.
This is a silly discussion of course, as music is so subjective, but to the Moody Blues. I think the MC5 and 13th Floor Elevators belong in as much if not more than the Moody Blues for example. MC5 is like Koufax, short burst of great influential music (Koufax, short career, several 20 win and CY seasons). MB are like Blyleven, long career, one or two 20 win seasons (MB one or three hits) but managed to stick around long enough to compile stats.
Im not dissing the MB here, just my perspective.
And really, no Janes Addiction or Bad Brains?
EDITORIAL: I went to the RR HOF over Easter break, it was a lot of fun, some cool stuff. Go. There are also a few decent record stores outside Cleveland, and the West Side Market (I believe Its called) is awesome.

Last edited by earl011766; 12-21-2016 at 06:48 AM.
  #3  
Old 12-21-2016, 06:51 AM
GeneL's Avatar
GeneL GeneL is offline
Tolerated Vintage audio collector.
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego County, Calif.
Posts: 1,013
To be honest, I think the RRHF has become a joke. It lost it's importance many years ago.
__________________
My first reel to reel was a Midland 3" rim drive, but I've graduated to a Teac 2340R, Technics RS-1500US, & a Pioneer RT-1050. Oh, and a Yamaha KX-1200U
  #4  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:44 AM
nobody nobody is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 2,339
Picking people to put in a rock hall of fame is an impossible task if you expect to please everybody. We all have groups we personally feel obviously deserve it and others that we can't imagine why they would even be considered and all of our groupings are likely vastly different. For example, it is completely baffling to me that someone like Joan Jett would be considered questionable yet Grand Funk considered an oversight.

I do understand how people don't want rap groups in with it being called "rock and roll," and all that. But, if they are going to be including rap people like NWA and TuPac are pretty much no brainers along with many others. And I'm fine with including hip hop groups myself as there's not all that much more of a difference between some rap and rock relative to the earliest rock music and say prog stuff. I'm not sure rap sounds any more different from rock than say Chuck Berry from Yes. And then you have acts like Run DMC that so often walk the line between the two that in my mind it makes sense to throw it all together, but I can see how it is arguable. Really, the whole undertaking is more or less not tied to some strict definition of what is "rock" as far as I can tell and more of a celebration of modern American music since rock and roll exploded and through into the present day.

I don't care about or take their nominations seriously at all, but I would like to check it out someday, gotta be some fun stuff to look at there.
  #5  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:50 AM
WolverineBates WolverineBates is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 548
I can kinda' see Madonna as an inductee, though it's a stretch.

But Tupac Shakur? Seriously?
  #6  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:06 AM
Tribrix Tribrix is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 477
Though it is called the Rock and Roll hall of fame, in actuality, it's the Popular Music hall of fame, and the sooner one accepts that fact, the less bothersome these idiotic decisions seem. I actually had a one on one rant with their public relations officer several years ago which lead me to the conclusion above. They will not change their name to reflect the "real" mission, but popular music is the mission, not rock. In that context, all this makes more sense, to me anyway.
  #7  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:12 AM
earl011766's Avatar
earl011766 earl011766 is online now
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 1,090
But since it is in Cleveland, home of the station of Alan Freed, who allegedly coined the term Rock and Roll, they probably wont change it.
But you are generally correct. But not everyone in it is popular!
I don't honestly believe it has any importance except to the parties directly involved.
But the museum is cool.
  #8  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:18 AM
earl011766's Avatar
earl011766 earl011766 is online now
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 1,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
Picking people to put in a rock hall of fame is an impossible task if you expect to please everybody. We all have groups we personally feel obviously deserve it and others that we can't imagine why they would even be considered and all of our groupings are likely vastly different. For example, it is completely baffling to me that someone like Joan Jett would be considered questionable yet Grand Funk considered an oversight.

I do understand how people don't want rap groups in with it being called "rock and roll," and all that. But, if they are going to be including rap people like NWA and TuPac are pretty much no brainers along with many others. And I'm fine with including hip hop groups myself as there's not all that much more of a difference between some rap and rock relative to the earliest rock music and say prog stuff. I'm not sure rap sounds any more different from rock than say Chuck Berry from Yes. And then you have acts like Run DMC that so often walk the line between the two that in my mind it makes sense to throw it all together, but I can see how it is arguable. Really, the whole undertaking is more or less not tied to some strict definition of what is "rock" as far as I can tell and more of a celebration of modern American music since rock and roll exploded and through into the present day.

I don't care about or take their nominations seriously at all, but I would like to check it out someday, gotta be some fun stuff to look at there.
I grew up during the earlier incarnations of rap, LLCoolJ, Run DMC, Public Enemy, et al. It isn't my main listening music, I much prefer other stuff from that era (janes addiction etc), but to me, it fits with the mission of the RRHOF.
To me Janes Addiction and say the Pixies are much more influencial than 2PAC, but that's just my opinion. I don't have a problem with them putting him in, other than im not a big fan.
  #9  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:49 AM
Mark J's Avatar
Mark J Mark J is offline
Burning Tape
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brandywine Valley
Posts: 2,670
I read how an act is nominated and decided it was a closed opportunity to get in and don't believe it is the true R&R HoF. Voting, all the folks that can nominate, all those in the Hall have a vote. All the fans that vote added together = One Vote.

I got no say, I don't like the nominating method (the board of the Hall) and wonder why they do it. I'm out.
__________________
10X, 10XD, C300, CD-301, K-12, K-112, K-117, MXD-D3 (x2), MZ-N707, MZ-G750, 7525, RC-9, RS-20, SX-724, TCD-330
  #10  
Old 12-21-2016, 01:11 PM
meezer's Avatar
meezer meezer is offline
TSA Thinks my walkman & cassettes are the bomb!
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sonoran Desert
Posts: 1,952
I think more highly of slugs and snails in my garden than the aptly titled hall of shame. Thank you.
__________________
I took a dual cassette deck to a repair shop. They told me to get an iPod.
I just want to find happiness.
  #11  
Old 12-22-2016, 12:40 AM
doity's Avatar
doity doity is offline
Hoarder Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
Posts: 698
I am not sure if you 'nobody' can really say with a straight face that rappers like NWA and Tupac are as similar to Chuck Berry than Yes is to the father of rock and roll. First off, Chuck Berry and the music of Yes could not be performed on a turntable and samples. Well maybe they could but it would sound nothing like you would recognize.

Frankly I find jazz musicians and jazz fusion artists more akin to rock and roll than I do rappers. I see your case with DMC but they went out of their way to incorporate backing rock tracks and such but I have not heard many rappers since them do so to that degree. And certainly no gangster rappers do that and that is the difference.

I hate to sound like an old man but rap really is crap. And to have violent and untalented rappers get in there before the likes of the Moody Blues, The Doobie Brothers, Grand Funk, Iron Maiden, etc. is a crime in my book. But leave it to a liberal like Jann Weiner to mess up something with his bending over backwards to accommodate people with no connection to rock just to appear hip or whatever. You know what they say about good intentions.
  #12  
Old 12-22-2016, 07:59 AM
nobody nobody is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 2,339
Eh, rap is just the latest musical innovation brought to you by the same people who created blues, jazz and rock 'n' roll. And, like all of them, it was hated by the older folks both for a supposed lack of musical merit and lyrical offensiveness. Same 'ol, same 'ol. Get off my lawn you damn kids.

The basic point is, the hall of fame isn't about a strict traditionalist definition of rock and roll as far as the artists included. And once you open it to a variety of musical forms, you have to judge practitioners of those forms by different standards. Like, this year I've seen more angst about Tupac than anything else, but within the rap genre and the rap community he is absolutely without a doubt one of the seminal and most respected and revered figures to practice the form. So, if you are including a wide breadth of popular music and including rap, he is really an easy pick.

But yeah, lots comes down to how narrowly you want to slice up genres. Personally, I think it makes sense and is more fun to include other related musical styles. It keeps it from being completely stuck in a time capsule. But, that's just me and I am well aware that opinions vary.
  #13  
Old 12-22-2016, 08:13 AM
Lance Lawson's Avatar
Lance Lawson Lance Lawson is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,003
Rap is the anti music. Rap is whining set to staccato rhythms. It is the temper tantrums of anti culture. It is vitriol without soul and violence without alternatives to violence.
__________________
Reel to reel:Teac A-2300SD, Realistic TR-3000, Harmon Kardon CD 291, Technics RS-B49R,Yamaha KX-1200U, TEAC W-880RX
  #14  
Old 12-22-2016, 10:49 AM
novabit's Avatar
novabit novabit is offline
Because tape decks.
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Rocky Mnt High, USA
Posts: 1,903
'Nobody' is correct. Rap and hip-hop evolved the same way white artists ripped off old blues and soul music. All your precious rock n roll has roots in black Americans innovating well before Elvis, the moody blues, the Beatles, or led Zepplin made it popular for a white audience.

No wonder there's so much intolerance in America still today. People here don't even understand the history or the very music they record to tape day after day!
__________________
  #15  
Old 12-22-2016, 01:28 PM
Kacansas51's Avatar
Kacansas51 Kacansas51 is offline
Wild West user
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Got drugged to Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 235
My personal objection to Rap is that they use electronic means to create the "music" that forms the background for someone talking or shouting. A few of them had some actual singing. Music is an analog medium because you can't transfer the music directly to your brain digitally, at least not yet. You have to play it over speakers, headphones or ear buds all of these are analog. I have great respect for the people in the world who can play an instrument. That talent runs strong in my family. I was a good singer for awhile in my youth and now my children continue the talent along with grandchildren. I have got to get to see my 8 year old grandson play the trombone.
__________________
Alan C. W.

X-1000R, X-7R disassembled, RS-1506, Kenwood KX-W4060 cassette, linear tracking turntable & 2 Klipsch KLF-10's. Into audio and R2R for 54 years since I was 11 & built my first circuit
  #16  
Old 12-22-2016, 01:58 PM
Big Kelv's Avatar
Big Kelv Big Kelv is online now
The Morse Isn't Random
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Stalham, UK
Posts: 4,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacansas51 View Post
My personal objection to Rap is that they use electronic means to create the "music" that forms the background for someone talking or shouting. A few of them had some actual singing. Music is an analog medium because you can't transfer the music directly to your brain digitally, at least not yet. You have to play it over speakers, headphones or ear buds all of these are analog. I have great respect for the people in the world who can play an instrument. That talent runs strong in my family. I was a good singer for awhile in my youth and now my children continue the talent along with grandchildren. I have got to get to see my 8 year old grandson play the trombone.
I'm just wondering how Kurtis Blow - The Breaks fits into this rational. Full big band and rap - no samples original composition.

Not all rap is crap. Furthermore, using the same tar brush, Kraftwerk, JM Jarre, Jean-Jacques Perrey and Isao Tomita must also be rubbish. They're use of a synthesiser later controlled by a computer must make them terrible.


Back on topic: The R&R Hall of Fame should should be re-named to something more reflective of what it is promoting. Rock & Roll is a genre of popular music. The hall of fame has just expanded. I'm not going to lose any sleep over who's inducted.


Regards, Kelv
__________________
NAD Sony Pioneer Yamaha Nak Denon Pure Pro-Ject Dual Sherwood Linn Mission Audiolab Brennan Marantz Home Brew TT Arcam

Go on you know you want to. Go on, go, on, go on, go on.
  #17  
Old 12-22-2016, 02:12 PM
Kacansas51's Avatar
Kacansas51 Kacansas51 is offline
Wild West user
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Got drugged to Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Kelv View Post
I'm just wondering how Kurtis Blow - The Breaks fits into this rational. Full big band and rap - no samples original composition.

Not all rap is crap. Furthermore, using the same tar brush, Kraftwerk, JM Jarre, Jean-Jacques Perrey and Isao Tomita must also be rubbish. They're use of a synthesiser later controlled by a computer must make them terrible.


Back on topic: The R&R Hall of Fame should should be re-named to something more reflective of what it is promoting. Rock & Roll is a genre of popular music. The hall of fame has just expanded. I'm not going to lose any sleep over who's inducted.


Regards, Kelv
I didn't mean to imply, and I see I did, that all electronic music is crap. It is not! The statement I made was too broad and critical and I know better. I really like Pink Floyd as an example of electronic assisted music. I also agree with the original post about the Moodys. Also I do think they should make some kind of name change to include "popular" music. In my head I always think of them in that manner. I may have a bunch of music in my collection but I add nearly every day for I find new good sounds that often. Some of the music is at least hip-hop. Yes i liked some disco too! So I am weird, oh well. Keep the music coming.
__________________
Alan C. W.

X-1000R, X-7R disassembled, RS-1506, Kenwood KX-W4060 cassette, linear tracking turntable & 2 Klipsch KLF-10's. Into audio and R2R for 54 years since I was 11 & built my first circuit
  #18  
Old 12-22-2016, 02:29 PM
Big Kelv's Avatar
Big Kelv Big Kelv is online now
The Morse Isn't Random
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Stalham, UK
Posts: 4,987
We're speaking the same language now. Pink Floyd ticks every box for me, Hip-Hop as a genre is also very broad. Now MODERN rap or acts that claim to be R&B don't float my boat.

All efforts by any artist deserve a chance. If we don't like it, we don't listen to it again. Others will love it but because we don't like it, doesn't mean it's rubbish. They're entertainers and if they entertain people - they've done their chosen job. If they've given millions of people pleasure, why shouldn't they be recognised? It's just the name that irrelevant to the hall of fame.

Regards, Kelv
__________________
NAD Sony Pioneer Yamaha Nak Denon Pure Pro-Ject Dual Sherwood Linn Mission Audiolab Brennan Marantz Home Brew TT Arcam

Go on you know you want to. Go on, go, on, go on, go on.
  #19  
Old 12-22-2016, 06:28 PM
Turbofiat124's Avatar
Turbofiat124 Turbofiat124 is offline
Serious Tapehead
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 368
Gee, I thought I was the only person who liked the Moody Blues!

The Rock and Roll hall of fame is just like any other entity. Like the Nobel peace price for example. Like they say opinions are like aholes.

Just for example I've heard the Ford Model T was one of the worst cars of all time. Why? I don't know. Considering most cars back then were hand built and sold for thousands of dollars and were only available to the upper 1%. But the model T sold for under $500 and the first affordable car for the working man. So in that regards, it was one of the greatest cars of all time.

The amount of musicians and bands out there have to number in the hundreds of thousands if not over a million so it's rather hard to induct everybody.

But I see where you are coming from.
  #20  
Old 12-22-2016, 07:23 PM
GeneL's Avatar
GeneL GeneL is offline
Tolerated Vintage audio collector.
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego County, Calif.
Posts: 1,013
I too am a huge Moodies fan, all the way through Seventh Sojourn.
__________________
My first reel to reel was a Midland 3" rim drive, but I've graduated to a Teac 2340R, Technics RS-1500US, & a Pioneer RT-1050. Oh, and a Yamaha KX-1200U
Reply


Would you like to see your company or site here?  CONTACT US
For more Tapeheads affiliates and links, see the Links and Resources page.


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rush in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame katana1100 The Lounge 8 05-30-2013 06:49 PM
Nominees For 2013 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Elite-ist Music and Tunes 11 10-10-2012 10:20 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2016, Tapeheads.Net. All rights reserved, no use of any element incorporated into this site without express written permission.