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Universal Capstan Motor

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  #1  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:43 AM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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Teac A-3340S problem

I recently picked up this beautiful A-3340S deck with its original box and paper work, it plays flawlessly for one side, but 1/4 way through the second side it starts dragging (slowing down). A new belt, and lube job seemed to help a little, but it is back to doing the same thing. My un educated guess would be that the capstan motor is about to give out, or the motor can capacitor is going bad. FF and RR work fine, and like I said, it plays perfectly for about 45 minutes before the problem starts. Any help would be most appreciated.

20160607_181603.jpg
  #2  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:35 AM
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macman007 macman007 is offline
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Hello Steve,


can you tell me where you sourced this deck from (eBay etc) and which seller if so? Odd questions but follow along as it may greatly influence my answer and advice. I may or may not know something on this deck...call it a hunch...You can PM me if you want the answer private or here..


Welcome to Tapeheads by the way, we'll get you sorted out with your A3340S!

Edit: What tape are you using and where is it sourced from?

Last edited by macman007; 06-08-2016 at 06:41 AM.
  #3  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:55 AM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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The tape being used is some I recorded back in the late 70's, TDK and Maxell. These tapes play well on my other Teac's A2300SD, and 4010S models.
  #4  
Old 06-08-2016, 08:41 AM
Audiomayvin Audiomayvin is offline
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Hi!
I have never ever seen a defective motor on a 3340. First and foremost, is the supply side guide really, really clean from SSS?
As an aside, over the years, I've replaced that guide with one from the 3440 because it rotates and that reduces scrape flutter-which is quite audible.
One thing to check on the capstan motor is to remove the belt and rotate the motor by hand. Does it turn freely? As long as the belt is off, turn the flywheel by hand. Does that turn freely?
All the best,
Leon(The Audiomayvin, Montreal(514)739-5403)
  #5  
Old 06-08-2016, 09:35 AM
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tapetech tapetech is online now
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If capstan motor spins freely with no belt, then check pinch roller pressure. Put deck into play with no tape and try to stop the pinch roller by hand. Should be difficult to do that. If that is good, a bad capstan motor run capacitor would be suspect. Also, check supply side brake. With deck off and no tape, push in supply side brake solenoid and see if supply reel hub spins freely.
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2016, 09:56 AM
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macman007 macman007 is offline
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Another thing you can visually ID is are the break pads released on both reel table motors during playback? If they aren't or the pads are loose and dislodged this can cause drag, as can lack of lubrication which I PM'd you about.
..
Same applies as far as lubing the 3 motors (oil - 0w30 MOBIL 1) the capstan shaft and (grease Lubriplate 105) thrust pate/end play..set end play clearance TO .001". There are 2 tubes in each motor. Likely the oil retention foams are mush and any oil will run out the bottom, instead of fill the reservoirs around the bearings.

These need service in every deck I get. i replace the foam that disintegrates with felt rings same size and thickness, pre-lube each of the 3 motors at both ends, at reassembly of each motor, then top off the oil tubes till oil stands visible in the clear lubrication tubes just below the tip top.

Capstan shaft is removed and cleaned when the belt is replaced. It should be cleaned, the shaft re textured and fresh oil in the shaft and grease as above with the thrust plate end play set as specified.

With the breaks released, both take up and supply reels should spin freely by hand several turns when spun.

Clean the tape path very well, as any leftover schmutz on the guides or heads could cause dragging and other issues. Make sure the capstan belt is 14.7" long, no shorter, as that will cause excessive side loading on the capstan bearing as well as the capstan motor shaft/bearings. Too long and it will slip and cause different issues.

Make sure the pinch roller and lifters are properly lubed and installed hopefully you didn't remove the solenoid to service the sticky pinch roller linkage. If you did the solenoid pressure is way off and you will need a precision digital scale and the manual plus a lot of time to reset the pinch roller solenoid/capstan pressure properly.

A good rubber roller of correct size and material is necessary, both washers need to be present when mounted and the capstan must have a nice bead blasted matte finish.. Do not sand or smooth, or you will have to replace the capstan shaft!

All this should keep you busy a while checking. Let us know what you find..
  #7  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:53 PM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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Ok, removed the capstan motor and lubed both sides well in its tubes, and a drop on the shaft, oiled both reel motors, and capstan flywheel. Everything spins very freely, no sign of anything sticking or binding. I verified that the brakes are releasing also. The times that the unit started dragging has only been after playing a full side, then a few songs into the second side. I made sure that it wasn't coming from the tape slipping on the capstan roller, it was definitely because the capstan motor was slowing down.

I have it playing now, so I will see if it still acts up, if so, I think it is electrical.
  #8  
Old 06-08-2016, 02:37 PM
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macman007 macman007 is offline
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The next thing might be the combo cap in the can mounted on the motor bracket right side facing the unit from the rear. It will have a date code and the cap measurements as well. If a combo cap isn't available I would re-stuff that one if determined faulty with 2 caps. .., one is for normal speed one high speed, 7 1/2 and 15 ips. I would stay as close to the rating and go 10% higher on voltage at the most. you can go a tad higher on capacitance, but I wouldn't go crazy, try to stay close to what it is rated for. I have yet to have a bad one of these yet, but Sam (Skywavebe) or Tim (Music Technology) have more experience and would know better. Other brands like Studer/Revox and Akai yes I see them bad often, just not the A3340S, but the caps are long in the tooth and due, so it is possible.

See what lubing the motor does, but again those foam reservoirs are goo by now, so you might not get optimal long term results, but should be good enough to test the theory. The capstan can be oiled from the front, the cover unscrews, carefully remove the rubber washer and shim the put several drops in the well allow to seep in while on it's back then reassemble . Clean any oil from the shaft where it contacts the rubber roller and don't get any on the rubber. 90% or better Denatured or Isopropyl alcohol works fine here for clean up, as on the rest of the guides and tape path, just not rubber or the roller. Don't sand the matte capstan shaft that contacts the rubber pinch roller.

I use formula 409 and a tooth brush on the rubber roller, scrub till clean, then dry and oil the bronze bushing. Don't loose or install the washers above and below the roller improperly, not their position on disassembly. The cap unscrews on it just like the capstan reservoir cap.

Last edited by macman007; 06-08-2016 at 02:40 PM.
  #9  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:03 PM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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Well, no go on the results, it did play about 1/2 way through the second side which is slightly better. I would say it's the can capacitor, schematic shows C-5 0.8 uf X 2.
  #10  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:08 PM
eddisc eddisc is offline
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Steve, welcome & I hope you get it sorted soon. It's a great deck - using mine NOW to do archive work on SCOTUS tapes at work! Can't believe station doesn't have a 10" 4tr. deck that does 15ips......
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  #11  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:20 PM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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It does sound excellent when working correctly, hope to get it sorted out soon.
  #12  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:37 PM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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I may of just figured the problem out, the belt is positioned on the 60hz pulley, and selector switch is on 60hz. Shouldn't this deck be set on 50hz? ahh, I just read the manual, 60hz is correct.
  #13  
Old 06-19-2016, 10:24 AM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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I finally was able to get a couple 10.5 reels for this deck, so I recorded one full side on high speed and then played it back without any issues. So the problem of dragging is on low speed only, I imagine the low speed section of the motor capacitor is bad. The schematic says 2.0 UF and 0.8 UF which I verified on the can cap. I was able to find a 2.2 UF and 1.0 UF 250V to restuff the can with. Hope this solves the problem.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:35 PM
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Skywavebe Skywavebe is offline
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The different speeds use a different motor pole from the schematics. You do not need the two value cap just the one as long as you are not moving to 50 Hz country. The ,8uFd is just added to make the difference for the 50Hz setting. Otherwise it just sits and does nothing.

It could be that the motors are starting to go bad after this many years but like Leon I have never seen one to date. I would suspect the motor run cap as I have had Sony units do the same thing.
If you find that the speed is 150Hz slow as measured from a reference tape theb the only solution is a different pulley and I have some in stock.
A machine sounds better when it is not at 2860Hz but with the new pulley it is at 3007Hz. This is why I have had them made as some people are picky and so am I.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:54 PM
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Same thing I did with my A 6300. Just used the 60Hz cap and did away with the other leads. Use the old cap for it's mounting to hold the PCB.
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  #16  
Old 07-02-2016, 10:03 AM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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Can anyone point me to which leads on the can cap control the motor for 60hz, I understand I can leave the leads for the 50hz to still hold the board to the original can, and remove the other leads to mount the new capacitor.
  #17  
Old 07-06-2016, 04:41 AM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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Looks like the board is marked for proper capacitor placement, my plan is to de solder the can cap, cut the 2uf lug off, and solder it back with the new 2uf cap hooked to where the old lug used to be. Hope this solves the issue.
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2016, 06:46 AM
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Skywavebe Skywavebe is offline
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All you need to do is desolder the cap in the unit. Then attach the lead for your new cap from 2uFd and the common lead of the PCB Isolating the old cap from touching. This requires a lot less work than taking the old cap out when in fact it may not be the issue at all. Has the motor been oiled? A drop or two in the oil tubes might bet to the bearings in a year or two.
Whay I do is take the motor out- no disconnection of wires, tip it up and take the pulley off that need cleaning most times. Allow AMS signature synthetic oil to sit at the motor shaft bearing for a few minutes, I work the shaft a bit up and down and spin it a little so that the oil works in. Then when that is done put th pulley back on and do the fan side. Time to clean the fan anyway. Once these are oiled well then you can figure out what is happening. If it still does it then time to take the Thrust plate off and the flywheel and get some AMS into the capstan bearing directly. The dust cover might have to come off the front of the bearing to get the shaft out due to oil retention washer and also there is a nylon washer between bearing and flywheel do not lose that. It needs to go back. I pull the capstan shaft out the bearing from the front and oil the shaft as well as get oil in the void of the bearing which is in the middle of it. Then work the shaft in and out a to distribute the oil and put it all back. The flywheel should be tightened with 1.5mm of play front to back of the capstan shaft. It must have some play.
Some people tighten these tight which can be your trouble. If the motor and the bearing is well oiled then the problem can be a belt or a dragging brake.
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Past Teac/Tascam Lead Service Technician at Chicago Factory Service still doing repairs.
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  #19  
Old 07-08-2016, 05:21 AM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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I have oiled everything pretty good twice over the last month and replaced the belt. I have found no sign of the brakes dragging when the problem occurs. Nothing has helped. Like I said before, after playing one full side and part way through the next, it starts dragging the speed down. I can hit stop, wait 1 minute, and it will play fine for a few minutes. Seems to be heat related or electrical, all parts seem to move very free when moved by hand, I'll try the new capacitor and see if it helps.
  #20  
Old 07-09-2016, 04:27 AM
supersportsteve supersportsteve is offline
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Can anyone tell me if this capacitor would be a good replacement?

https://www.amazon.com/CEILING-FAN-C...capacitor+250V
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