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  #1  
Old 03-12-2012, 03:11 PM
trott3r trott3r is offline
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Analog Recording level on Sony MD decks

Hello,

I am recording from an old tape on to minidisc using a Sony jb980 minidisc recorder.
The recording level is set to +12 but it is not getting near the 0 db level on the MD recorder.

Does anyone remember/or briefly test if the ja20es or jb920 had a greater analogue recording level than +12db.
They are both in the loft so it will be a pain to dig them up if they are the same +12db as the 980 and my 940 that i normally use.

thanks for your time

Martin
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2012, 03:39 PM
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ke4mcl ke4mcl is offline
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sounds like your output level from your playback deck is too low. what do the meters say on your playback deck? are they nice and high or barely moving?

i've had several very old cassettes for example that seem to have self erased and levels were in the dumps. i had to digitally record them into a PC and do a bit of sound processing to get them to somewhat normal sound.
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  #3  
Old 03-12-2012, 04:39 PM
trott3r trott3r is offline
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Yes my tape level is a bit too low hence me trying to increase it

The levels on my sony wmdc6 are moving a bit but only half of the full range of the peak display.

This is why i was hoping my MDs in the loft might be able to amplify it more.
It would just be a pain trying to locate them etc
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:52 PM
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ke4mcl ke4mcl is offline
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if your levels are that far in the mud sound quality isn't all that critical. i would take a standalone stereo preamp set tone controls to flat or a mixer and use that to boost levels.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2012, 01:47 AM
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Ghitulescu Ghitulescu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trott3r View Post
Yes my tape level is a bit too low hence me trying to increase it

The levels on my sony wmdc6 are moving a bit but only half of the full range of the peak display.

This is why i was hoping my MDs in the loft might be able to amplify it more.
It would just be a pain trying to locate them etc
Simply because your walkman has a -20dBu output (~250mV), a regular consumer gear outputting some 450-500mV (-10dBu) and a real pro one has a +4dBu (some 1.3-1.5V). The values are approximative because of the measuring standards.

You need a preamp in between, as suggested.
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2012, 10:37 AM
nikkit nikkit is offline
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No, you won't need a preamp. The JB980 has a neat feature called "S.F Edit", short for scale factor edit, which allows you to change the volume of a recorded track. As long as you don't clip the signal by going over 0dB, this operation is completely lossless and undoable.

While it is still a good idea to maximize your recording level (up to maybe -0,3dB to avoid intersample overs) to minimize the noise floor, this becomes irrelevant when digitizing old tapes which would have maybe 80dB SNR at most so...just set the rec level as loud as you can and then just S.F Edit the level up after the recording.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2012, 02:46 PM
hawkster27 hawkster27 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trott3r View Post
Hello,

I am recording from an old tape on to minidisc using a Sony jb980 minidisc recorder.
The recording level is set to +12 but it is not getting near the 0 db level on the MD recorder.

Does anyone remember/or briefly test if the ja20es or jb920 had a greater analogue recording level than +12db.
They are both in the loft so it will be a pain to dig them up if they are the same +12db as the 980 and my 940 that i normally use.

thanks for your time

Martin
The ja20es maxes out at +10 on the analog, which is where I have to put it when recording from LP and tape. But, why is your ja20es banished to the loft? I sold my JB940 to get a ja20es.
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:10 AM
trott3r trott3r is offline
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A lack of LP playback is why the ja20es is in the loft.
Its a nice machine and i do wonder if i could use the case for transplanting a
920 or 940 into it.

I use my HiMD rh1 as the quality playback machine.
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Tape=technics rs-b465> Sony 611> Sony WMDC6

MD=Sony JB920 >Jb940> 980> MZRH10 >MZRH1 >JA20ES (in storage) >JA-555ES (jan 2013)
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  #9  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:16 PM
hawkster27 hawkster27 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trott3r View Post
Hello,

I am recording from an old tape on to minidisc using a Sony jb980 minidisc recorder.
The recording level is set to +12 but it is not getting near the 0 db level on the MD recorder.

Martin
Martin, I made a discovery last night that may or may not pertain to your issue, but here it is: as I mentioned earlier, the MDS-JA20ES maxes out at +10 gain on its analog recording dial, which is the settingI have always used for dubbing tapes or LPs. At this setting, about -12dB was about all the meters would display as the recording level, roughly in the middle of the range. Last night I wanted to get a tune off of a copy-protected DVD, so I did a direct analog connection between the DVD player and the 20ES. I was able to make the copy, but at the usual -12dB max level.

But, it then occurred to me that the TAPE OUT jack on my Onkyo PR-SC5508 pre should really be REC OUT, as I no longer use my Nakamichi DR-1 for recording, but playback of cassettes only [heresy on this forum, I know]. With the 20ES connected to the TAPE OUT jack, I then did some test recordings from CD and LP. Much to my surprise, I was able to get a 0dB recording level with the analog dial at 4 instead of the previous 10, and of course could have easily pushed it into over-saturation.

So, perhaps you can get the performance you desire by placing a preamp or receiver between your tape deck and MD recorder, rather than connecting them directly.

[I assume you're using your WM-D6C. I have a WM-D6 (identical, but no Dolby C), and although I almost never use it, I can't bring myself to sell it. That little box is just too cool.]
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  #10  
Old 04-11-2012, 05:32 PM
trott3r trott3r is offline
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Hmm i do not have a preamp.

I have a cyrus 8 amplifier with a tape out would that work with what you are suggesting?
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Tape=technics rs-b465> Sony 611> Sony WMDC6

MD=Sony JB920 >Jb940> 980> MZRH10 >MZRH1 >JA20ES (in storage) >JA-555ES (jan 2013)
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  #11  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:29 PM
hawkster27 hawkster27 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trott3r View Post
Hmm i do not have a preamp.

I have a cyrus 8 amplifier with a tape out would that work with what you are suggesting?
Martin, I believe so, yes. Please note, this is based on a quick search of the Cyrus 8 that I did. No warranty is made or implied. You will need three patch cords: #1 will be a "Y" cord, with a stereo mini plug on one end, and an RCA R plug and RCA L plug on the other. #2 will be an R-R cord, marked in red. #3 will be an L-L cord, marked in white. See photo for hook up.

Clear as mud? Let me know if you need further help.



Oh, and I'll be happy to take that ja20es off your hands if you no longer want it.
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Last edited by hawkster27; 04-11-2012 at 09:37 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:56 PM
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Ghitulescu Ghitulescu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trott3r View Post
Hmm i do not have a preamp.

I have a cyrus 8 amplifier with a tape out would that work with what you are suggesting?
I doubt it.
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2012, 03:52 PM
trott3r trott3r is offline
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It looks like a line level going in to an amp and out the same really.

I cant see it increase the volume.

Thanks anyhow.
Shame there wasnt a MD recorder that recorded higher but we cant have everything.

As to the 20es its only not in use at the moment due to lack of space to set it up. If you buy me a bigger flat I am sure i could let you use it occasionally ;)
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Tape=technics rs-b465> Sony 611> Sony WMDC6

MD=Sony JB920 >Jb940> 980> MZRH10 >MZRH1 >JA20ES (in storage) >JA-555ES (jan 2013)
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:09 AM
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Ghitulescu Ghitulescu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trott3r View Post
It looks like a line level going in to an amp and out the same really.
I cant see it increase the volume.
This is why I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
I doubt it.
Get a preamp, or use that SFedit function earlier mentioned in this thread, or get a stationary deck (that outputs at -10dBu instead of -20), or capture it on a PC, gain it accordingly, then use denoise/EQ plugins (then send the digital through digital out to your MD-deck, or burn it temporary on a CDR then send it D or A to the MD deck, or even send it the analogue way to the deck - I don't recommend it though).
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  #15  
Old 04-14-2012, 05:58 AM
trott3r trott3r is offline
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I think i will try the SF edit option.

I do need to back up the minidisc first though but wont sonys DRM get in the way?

IIRC you can put input music into sonicstage but it will not output on to MD.

I have the RH1 so it is less likely to be crippled by Sony
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MD=Sony JB920 >Jb940> 980> MZRH10 >MZRH1 >JA20ES (in storage) >JA-555ES (jan 2013)
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2012, 05:11 PM
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Dumpster Diver Dumpster Diver is offline
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Are you using "line in" (optical) bantam plug jack? and an AV splitter plug adaptor into the MD from the cassette deck?

did you try turning up the level on the MD player itself to about 24 or 25.

I've had some relative success with getting a few 8 tracks dumped onto my portable MD back in the day and all I did was Turn the MD volume WAY up.

but yah could just be the tape itself and the player right?
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2012, 07:43 AM
trott3r trott3r is offline
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I am using a 3.5mm jack line out from the Tape deck into my cyrus amp and recording on the MD deck from that.

I have turned the recording level up to the max.

Yes the tape player is a little low but its the only mechanical tape player i have of quality.

The touch button tape decks seem to be intent on mis playing my tapes so they "garble" a little then fade back up to normal levels.
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Tape=technics rs-b465> Sony 611> Sony WMDC6

MD=Sony JB920 >Jb940> 980> MZRH10 >MZRH1 >JA20ES (in storage) >JA-555ES (jan 2013)
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