Proposed Section Elimination: Marketplace

[Administrator]

Tapeheads simply cannot compete despite now receiving over 20,000 visitors per month and offering it as a free service.

Unless there is a substantial amount of support to the contrary, the Marketplace sections (which includes all "For Sale", "Wanted To Buy", "Heads Up", and "Feedback" categories) will be closed and eliminated from the forum hierarchy at or around the end of the month (June, 2010).

Despite being a large part of the site, the Marketplace section receives the lowest amount of traffic and activity on this site. It consumes too much bandwidth in relation to how much use it gets.

Clearly, your preferences lie elsewhere: Thrift shop and yard sale hopping, buying and selling through Ebay, Craigslist, and other sites. I see no reason to continue offering this service in light of virtually no one using it, be it items for sale, or asking for items that you are looking for.

To those who have used it in the last two years, I hope you enjoyed it.

Thank you.

[DolbySProject]

I have considered using it many times; but, was left unclear as to what could or couldn't be listed. I guess I should have asked for clarification. For instance, I have many duplicate CD's I would love to go to a good home. Not being equipment, vinyl or tape, I usually second guessed as to whether it was really acceptable to list them. My bad. *embarrased*

[Dazen1]

I think this will be a huge loss. It gives members the opportunity to transact in a relatively safe and secure way. I'd rather trade with guys I know via this site than chance my luck elsewhere. Shame...

[Des-Lab]

I thought all of that was clearly spelled out in the Marketplace rules (http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=274).

You're right. If you have a question, it would've only taken a minute to type up a quick post or fire off a PM.

I've come to the conclusion that this is just a symptom of a much larger issue: Too many people refuse to support an entity or a business so much to the point that they die of starvation. The only time you can be bothered to drop a dollar is when they have announced that they are going out of business. Then you guys invade them like Normandy to clean out on the liquidations. And that dollar went to something that should've been worth five a month earlier to keep the chain alive. Then a year hence, you complain about how "no good stores are left".

So add the TH marketplace to that lot.

Have fun on Ebay and their skewed feedback policy and spiralling fees associated with commissions and PayPal cuts.

You had two years to build a viable alternative here.

[Des-Lab]

I think this will be a huge loss. It gives members the opportunity to transact in a relatively safe and secure way. I'd rather trade with guys I know via this site than chance my luck elsewhere. Shame...

Well who's fault is that? What do you think I pushed and pushed and pushed to do? But the convenience of taking your chances and rolling the dice on Ebay with the larger traffic, and convenience of selection was worth the tradeoff of dealing with unknown sellers and their hefty fees and one-sided policies.

[Dazen1]

Well who's fault is that? What do you think I pushed and pushed and pushed to do? But the convenience of taking your chances and rolling the dice on Ebay with the larger traffic, and convenience of selection was worth the tradeoff of dealing with unknown sellers and their hefty fees and one-sided policies.

I don't use eBay.

I still think it is a shame, however, it is your call and I respect your decision.

Just out of curiosity, how much would it cost to keep this part of the forum up and running?

[DolbySProject]

Des, my comment was meant to be somewhat empathetic; because, I can understand where you are coming from. However, I think your responses here are harsher than necessary. I don't think they endear people to rethink delving deeper into the site. On the contrary, I think they tend to push folks away. Please let me know if I'm misinterpreting.

[Des-Lab]

Harsh or not, repulsive or not, it's the simple Gods honest truth. Nothing more. nothing less. If someone finds that offensive, then too freaking bad.

[Des-Lab]

I don't use eBay.

I still think it is a shame, however, it is your call and I respect your decision.

Just out of curiosity, how much would it cost to keep this part of the forum up and running?

It IS a shame. But I'm tired of swimming against the current. I'm tired. I give up. I capitulate. I don't want to do that anymore.

It's not even a cost issue as the site is already fully funded for the next year. So it would cost the same to run with or without those sections. However, it DOES tie up resources on the back end because it's that many more files that need to be maintained, optimized, and archived, along with the usergroups for it that take time, and so on. By eliminating those sections, it would reduce the time and effort that goes into keeping the rest of the site going.

I'm sending a clear message here. The market has spoken. It's too crowded. The preferences lie elsewhere. And I'm listening.

[laatsch55]

How do you dodge a JUGGERNAUT such as the market? Unless you ignoire basic economics you don't. I'm new here Des-Lab, but anytime a persons options are narrowed the world is a little greyer. Just hate to see it, glad I don't have to make those decisions.

[braxus]

I thought you were going to delegate duties to the other moderators to free up some of your time. Scorp even mentioned this with you. So what happened? Your mods have commented on how bored they are.

I think the Heads Up section still gets traffic more so then any of the others.

[Web Police]

I hate to see it go, as I have bought a few things out of the ads posted. I don't think the section has to compete, I look at it more as a benefit to members. Since we have really only 100 some members who have more than 100 posts it is easy to see why it doesn't get a lot of use. *scratchchin*

[vinyldavid]

I just don't see how you can expect to compete with a giant like CL or eprey. This is a fairly small forum, that is relatively new, compared to say....Audiogon, AK subscriber membership, Canuck Audio mart, or HifiDo. There's just not enough to make it a main competitor.

I similarly see it as a benefit to our members, and one of the great perks of being a member of TapeHeads.

If I had a way to actually ship things, I would be active in that place.

[speakerman1]

I understand where Mat is coming from. You have free listings and people still sell there things on ebay and come in here and post the auction numbers. There are other forums that it isn't allowed. You either post in their forum or on ebay. You don't slap them in the face by selling on ebay and using their forum as advertisement for your auction. That is just my feelings and theirs since I have seen members called on the rug and their post yanked. Maybe I'm wrong.

The heads up and the wanted to buy may be different cases. I have mixed feelings on these and how they are used. So on this part I will keep my mouth shut.
Larry

[Rex Everything]

I better make up my mind about posting my McIntosh C32 or not in a hurry I guess.....;-)

[Elite-ist]

I have used the Marketplace sections with more than 6 transactions in the past 6 months. I haven't been disappointed, yet, with the exception of my very first attempt to buy from this site. All my experiences have been excellent with multiple buys from Stuart(stuartypoorty) and Robert(robert1946) and Phoenix tape sales. I felt strongly enough to put back into the membership, by offering members Steve(CanJet), Jay(westgate), and Robert(fastforward) with more than fair deals because of my ties to this site. I have not bickered with the pricing in any of my purchases because they have been fair. And members do care about whether everything is to the satisfaction of the buyer. That says alot about their honesty and integrity.

There's something more than the logistics of running this sub-forum that underlies the main reason this sub-forum is about to be squashed.

Nando.

[Mark J]

Could the entire Marketplace section be combined into a simple FS/WTB section? One area to take care of business. This would make it easier to search the new gear/parts and accessories wanted or for sale.

On a car board, the FS/WTB is one forum for parts and one for cars, just the two. It gets a good bit of business.

I'll be here whatever you decide to do.

[Rex Everything]

Could the entire Marketplace section be combined into a simple FS/WTB section? One area to take care of business. This would make it easier to search the new gear/parts and accessories wanted or for sale.

On a car board, the FS/WTB is one forum for parts and one for cars, just the two. It gets a good bit of business.

I'll be here whatever you decide to do.

I was wondering the same thing

[Socal Sam]

If Marketplace goes, something better has to be in the works. I wonder what is coming down the pike?

[laatsch55]

Deleted for being inappropriateby me , laatsch55

[Des-Lab]

Having it as a benefit doesn't mean a whole lot when so few use it. It's sort of like buying a cell phone package that includes GPS. IS that a good deal if you happen to be a homebody and never venture more than five miles away from the house and therefore never use it?

I can only surmise that those sections are locked into an irreperable schizoid loop: no one goes there because no one lists anything. And no one lists anything because no one goes in there. And round and round it goes.

@ Laatsch: I don't know what you are talking about, especially being new here. What makes you think there is some sort of "bait-and-switch" at play here? Kindly explain your accusation. There isn't one. That section has been slated for closure owing to minimal use. Period.

There is no "successor" section planned. It will simply be eliminated. I *may* replace it with something like the suggestion above: an all-in-one, one-size-fits-all category. But I'm undecided on that right now. As we get closer to the end of the month, I'll make a decision.

@ Speakerman: I don't even have a problem with folks running concurrent listings here and on Ebay. Or indeed the folks steering one towards the other if it meant establishing and building rapport and business relationships in the long run. Christ...that is a bannable offense on most other forums, but here, I encouraged it. Likewise, a lot of you do shop there regularly. Surely you must have at least some ideas of what you want. Why not ask here and maybe a fellow TH'er might have it available? I know that a small trickle of transactions have indeed transpired.

I never said that I was aspiring to be the next AG, Ebay, or CL. But come on. We get what? Maybe five or ten listings a MONTH in here? That's pretty embarrassing. I can't believe that with the membership base we have we can't drum up maybe a hundred combined WTB and/or WTS listings. That's still barely a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, but would go a very long way at establishing a seperate yet solid and viable community here away from the clutches of the auction site that so many of you profess to despise. Yet still look there first anyway.

[Eldorado]

I've used the section a couple of times to buy reels, and appreciated it being available. Realistically, there is no way I am going to be buying a lot of equipment from the US or Europe though, as I get killed on the shipping costs. Tape reels are one thing: decks are a non-starter. And I know of no other TH member in the same country as me. On another note, dipping in and out of this site over a couple of years, it seems that the scolding of members for not doing their bit - especially buying - is becoming a bit of a habit. Always with the "I'm just telling it like it is" justification. Exercising the same privilege, I would comment that maybe all the others feel that's cool, but I don't, particularly.

[laatsch55]

Nothing meant as serious Des, was just rolling with the previous 2 posts.

[Pentium100]

First of all, I have bought something here only twice, in both cases I bought small and light items (some tapes and then a tape splicer). Since most of the members here (well, at least ones that are selling items I would like to buy) live in the US and the items are heavy it usually makes the item too expensive. For example, DaveInVA is selling a very nice old tape recorder for $9.99. If he lived close to me, I would have bought it already, but since he lives in the USA, the tape deck would cost me more than $110, only $9.99 actually going to him, while the rest would be for the post office. Converting the tape recorder to run on 50Hz probably would not be that hard, but...

I am a pack rat, so I don't sell anything.

However, this is Des-Lab's server and site, so he can do whatever he wants. I am not familiar with day to day operations of running a forum (I help my friends with their forums, but only with technical problems). I also do not know what his payment arrangement with the hosting company is (does he pay for the actual bandwidth or does he pay for some predetermined bandwidth cap with more payments if the site runs over the limits). So, if he wants to close the marketplace, so be it.

[braxus]

...it seems that the scolding of members for not doing their bit - especially buying - is becoming a bit of a habit. Always with the "I'm just telling it like it is" justification. Exercising the same privilege, I would comment that maybe all the others feel that's cool, but I don't, particularly.

Sigh. I agree.

[Warped Bezel]

I'm wondering what I'm doing trying anyway.

Are we headed for a trainwreck or something?

Went back to Kmart Saturday to look for shoes again and never did because a lady stopped breathing and had to be resuscitated. No point.

All of this gets over my head. I thought stereo would be more fun that bikes and I end up learning on my own anyway.

Matt, I think we're all tired of alot of things. Oil slicks. Running buffoon political campaigns to try to engineer who wins. Being broke. Being alone.

I went to the strip mall in front of the Home Depot and they were having a celebration and fundraiser to send a girl off the help in an Indian orphanage...music, FREE FOOD too.

So I had to wonder why most of them looked so DOUR, like a drive-by shooting was coming? maybe the missionaries that got in trouble in Haiti ruined it. I don't know.

It's not my fault if nobody has a lot of money. I lived stupid 17 years ago and went bankrupt. I promptly paid back all I was asked to ahead of schedule, without knowing of Dave Ramsey, kept a budget and kept my Les Schwab Tire Centers account open and paid for as long as I drove a car (sold in 2006, I'm sure I've said it).

I bought about 3 years worth of what I planned to in nine months due to the Paypal only rules. That was a tremendous burden. You have your own burdens.

I can't solve yours any more than you will mine. If you want to sell tapes fine. If you are about to see a house slip away or your job is going, hunker down. Sell for whatever the market will bring you...sell on eBay if that what you need. It's moot your complaints because we all told you we don't have that but we want you to stop pounding against a wall and live okay!

I've been a member of sites with membership headed toward 200,000/20,000 active regularly and I am part of a tiny computer forums site that lost most of it's traffic among a few dozen when a beloved member passed (yet we weren't aware). The moderator is a postal worker, the owner a college student and 4/5 of the most active members are 50+ and came from an ancient IBM list, 2 of us have diabetes and heart disease (the other had a heart attack last year) and some categories haven't had a new topic since 2005.


I hate sitting here feeling like I'm torn in ribbons. Still I pretty much have to say that if money is the reason for this group, make some. There has to be some balance and even idiots such as I know that.

I hardly even listen to my gear anymore and I came here hoping to ENHANCE that.

I LOVE MUSIC. Now what.

What's eating you? I'm not in on the 'joke' and I have to assert that you haven't experienced tired much. Tired isn't even REAL, we create tired. We cure it.

I'm not an Emo speechwriter on steroids you know...

[DolbySProject]

Harsh or not, repulsive or not, it's the simple Gods honest truth. Nothing more. nothing less. If someone finds that offensive, then too freaking bad.

Good attitude! NOT! *thumbsdown* Here's some more simple honest truth:

The question I'm asking myself right now is, "Why do I spend so much time talking up this site (off the forum)?" And, "Why did I just initiate a contest on TH's whereby I just gave away a custom take up reel that cost me almost $50?" Well, I know the answer to that. It was to promote what, mostly, has been the most positive audio forum experience I've had to date. I'm starting to think I wasted my time. As evidenced by some of the follow up posts, you need to figure out a way to draw attention to what you feel are forum issues without talking down to it's members. Or, go chill out and listen to music while your moderators do it for you. I've been here a little while and I've been through a few of your rants (some warranted) but others sorely test the limits of one's patience. Doesn't this site exist partially because AK is such a suck job? Don't screw this up, Des; not over the fact that it's members aren't taking the site to where you want it to be as fast as you want it to be. You've said over and over again it's not a money issue. You've said you're not trying to compete with CL, etc. Ok, then why are your panties in such a wad? I don't get it. And as much as I enjoy being here, I don't live for TH's, so if I haven't read every part of every forum including the details of what can and can't be listed in a For Sale thread... still not a reason to get your knickers in a twist. It IS your site and you CAN do whatever you want with it (including run off members you've fought so hard to gain); but, what the heck kind of sense does that make? What would it have taken to have sent out a message saying, "Heads up boys and girls, the marketplace isn't seeing much action; so, I've decided to close it or alter it or whatever" and leave it at that. That's simple and to the point and avoids pissing in everyone's pot. Attacking people's buying/selling preferences was unnecessary, unless you were trying to be antagonistic, in which case, you succeeded. No one has to answer to you for their buying/selling preferences. It sucks to have to write this. Turn it around, Des. Just take a pause and ask yourself if you are sowing the seeds of community or the seeds of disruption. Sheesh, I gave you my home phone number when you were going through your sell everything crisis. I didn't do that so I could feel better about myself. I did it because I gave a crap about what was going on with you. I did it because I would personally like to see this site be a success and that success depends very much on those who run it. I've noticed several new members with low post numbers who seem to be joining in conversation on several threads. Again, don't screw this up, Des. Sell the darn forum, if you have to; but, why not continue to let one of the most positive audio forums on the net be just that... positive. If you want to throw the "BS" flag at me now, and/or dispell everything I've just said, decry me as an inaccurate and ignorant slob that's fine, too. But, just maybe you can muster up enough courage to say, "You know what guys, I still feel the same way and I still intend to make changes to The Marketplace and I still would love for it to grow; but, I could have gotten my point across more tactfully and with a lot less crass. My apologies." Geez, you're married. You know how this works. Disappointed, I am.

And, with that, I will ban myself for a time. You are well within your rights to ban me permanently. Whatever.

[TheReeler]

100% with DolbySProject. No, 100000000000%.

In my case I also wrote to Des by private message when he was in troubles in his personal life to try to give him some support. No answer received neither.

Something changed from a time to nowadays in this forum and I don't understand why. I decided to try to give me some holydays and back after a while to look how the things were going... but I guess something is goind bad.

Well, as most of other guys have already said, this is his forum and he will do whatever he wants, but I see no excuse to close the marketplace section when in the past, there were lots and lots of sections with no traffic and that wasn't a problem for the mods/admins.

Now, what's the matter?. Maybe it has relation with some tapes listed for a higher price than the one marked by the market, that finalized with zero sales?.

I'll autoban me for a time too. This situation is freak!.

PS: If someone wants to contact me offline, my email is thereeler at gmail dot com.

[Rossco]

There are many other sales sites out there, so I can understand Des' points.
However I would like to be able to post a wanted ad, instead of having to wait for someone to advertise something I may want on another site, and having to check these other sites virtually daily in case I miss the ad.
And as others have said, for those of us not in the US, our purchases are likely to be small in size and weight and value simply because of the cost of international shipping and duties etc.

Thanks for reading

Ross

[speakerman1]

Well I don't grasp the deal then Matt. Even your moderators are confused. Right now I probably feel like you do and I have been off one of my meds for 2 weeks and I'm not having fun. DTs suck and right now I'm confussed as to where you are coming from. What is with this self destructive attitude. The 1st thing that went through my mind is that you were pissed the tapes didn't sell so you were shutting down that part. Then I said no way. It seems like when I was a kid and the one with the toy got mad he just said I'm done and I'm taking my toy home so no one could play. Dude it is like you use this place a your whipping post. You need to get a grip. Get mad that is ok. I can tell you if this makes you mad join my party right now.

Leave the forum alone. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If it messes up that is different. Keep your hands off a good thing. We talked once. Think about our conversation. Right now I'm one of the meanest MF you ever met. I would cuss you in a second then just for fun I would try to kick your ass. I don't like the person I am right now. I am not nice in any way shape or form. Yet I have emails to deal with.

You are dealing with a lot of people. I'll tell you truthfully. This forum closes down another has started or will start. Keep kicking the members and they aren't going to take it. They will blow this Popsicle stand and find another one. Then where are you going to be. When you don't have something to control. This seems to be your puppet you like pulling the strings. What strings are you going to pull when the puppet is gone and the only thing left is the dummie. You need to calm down soon.

Larry

[retrokeeper]

Does this website seem to be going into a tailspin?....sure feels like it. Rob

[speakerman1]

OK I have the balls. How much to buy this forum for a year or to transfer it to me? Isn't that what you have paid up. I will do my damnedest not to let this site die. We can work something out. Just give me a realistic number. I'm sure I can find some partners. I really don't think I need the format. It would be nice. My server offers the service for what I pay for my hosting. So I would be buying the name. You would have no more headaches.

I'm as serious as a heart attack. Ban me if you want. I'm jumping in everywhere else tape is concerned why not a forum.

Talk to me and we will get this done. Fuck all this legal stuff you talk about. What is the price to relieve you of your duties? Just print a bill of sale.

Larry

[Dazen1]

If I could just interject for a moment and urge everybody to calm down and pause for reflection.

There is nothing wrong with a robust discussion but can we all just take a step back before this place implodes.

[Warped Bezel]

Every time I find something I feel I can really enjoy it seems like it's gonna implode.

Let's stop this. The abuse hurts like hell. I don't understand it and I went through it 5 years ago.

The clown's name is David Goldstein. Audiokarma is his. This Tim/Kamakiri is only a figurehead now. I don't care, I just want Matt to get all that torments him behind him. So do I want that. I just don't know what it has to do with this site.

Larry came up with his feelings before I did and I haven't posted them. I like stereos, all of them. 15 years out of the loop left he unprepared and gee, one old wrapped tape is like enough. An old Thompson Twins tape at the thrift or another concert tape, that's what I hope for, to fix my players.

There really isn't a revolution. It's a new phase of discovery. The problem is that Larry is the White Knight to the press folks and we're another stereo site. We can't explode in a ball of fire like most others. We haven't hit our stride. Everything is far too frantic and there for the planet to see. We're not here to save the world.

We're here to plays it's tapes.

I'm not a bad coffee bean, I hate being bitter. There's brewing to be done.

[Dazen1]

Every time I find something I feel I can really enjoy it seems like it's gonna implode.

Let's stop this. The abuse hurts like hell. I don't understand it and I went through it 5 years ago.

The clown's name is David Goldstein. Audiokarma is his. This Tim/Kamakiri is only a figurehead now. I don't care, I just want Matt to get all that torments him behind him. So do I want that. I just don't know what it has to do with this site.

Larry came up with his feelings before I did and I haven't posted them. I like stereos, all of them. 15 years out of the loop left he unprepared and gee, one old wrapped tape is like enough. An old Thompson Twins tape at the thrift or another concert tape, that's what I hope for, to fix my players.

There really isn't a revolution. It's a new phase of discovery. The problem is that Larry is the White Knight to the press folks and we're another stereo site. We can't explode in a ball of fire like most others. We haven't hit our stride. Everything is far too frantic and there for the planet to see. We're not here to save the world.

We're here to plays it's tapes.

I'm not a bad coffee bean, I hate being bitter. There's brewing to be done.

Good post.

[TheReeler]

I was really in shock after reading Matt's (Des) post in r2r Yahoo! forum concerning the precission reels he was trying to sell. Copy/paste Matt's post:


"Yup. Sorry. But the reels have been disposed of. To make sure that no one could possibly salvage and use them, I sawed the center hubs in half and gouged the flanges and pulled up the screw holes with a screwdriver and bent and broke the flanges. Yep. On purpose. Sorry. But no one wanted them. And I had no use for them. And I was sure as hell not about to further enable the "But I only want it if it's cheap" mentality (that dominates the reel to reel hobby probably more so than the actual hobby itself does.). The monetary loss of the reels is really inconsequential to me as I've made up for it elsewhere. Like I said: I have a bigger fish to fry here."

Sorry, but I can't understand how someone can act in this way. Of course he can do whatever he wants, but is... *eyepop*

Now, as I said, I prefer to stay off for a time. Hope things go better.

[Dave Cawley]

Guys

A few months ago I offered to buy this forum and my offer is still open. I take no medication and do not use the "F" word. I run a large Nikon DSLR group because the owner got very ill and eventually passed away. And also a large Scooter (don't laugh) forum when the owner had had enough. Both continue to run as before with the exception of no politics, no religion, no sex, no racism, no rudeness, no rude words and no criticising other members. They run like a dream with little or no moderation.

Regards

Dave

[DaveInVA]

Bad timing for me. I just listed a few non-ebay r2r related things and was getting ready to add dozens more as I need to liquidate most my stuff. I've cross listed things here in the past I also had on ebay but usually ONLY after I offered them her first with no takers. Guess I'll have to list my remaining stuff on ebay only..

Dave

[speakerman1]

Every time I find something I feel I can really enjoy it seems like it's gonna implode.

Let's stop this. The abuse hurts like hell. I don't understand it and I went through it 5 years ago.

The clown's name is David Goldstein. Audiokarma is his. This Tim/Kamakiri is only a figurehead now. I don't care, I just want Matt to get all that torments him behind him. So do I want that. I just don't know what it has to do with this site.

Larry came up with his feelings before I did and I haven't posted them. I like stereos, all of them. 15 years out of the loop left he unprepared and gee, one old wrapped tape is like enough. An old Thompson Twins tape at the thrift or another concert tape, that's what I hope for, to fix my players.

There really isn't a revolution. It's a new phase of discovery. The problem is that Larry is the White Knight to the press folks and we're another stereo site. We can't explode in a ball of fire like most others. We haven't hit our stride. Everything is far too frantic and there for the planet to see. We're not here to save the world.

We're here to plays it's tapes.

I'm not a bad coffee bean, I hate being bitter. There's brewing to be done.

Hi
Steve do you care to explain. You have me very confused now. You can email me. What revolution? I just want to nip something in the bud. The offer to buy was to keep it as it is. As far as a White Knight I don't understand. I don't want anything about this forum to change. Except the emotional roller coaster. This is a good forum. It is unique in its own way. And it needs to stay that way.
Oh and the petty digs at me don't hurt. You know who you are. LMAO
Larry

[Fast Forward]

I was really in shock after reading Matt's (Des) post in r2r Yahoo! forum concerning the precission reels he was trying to sell. Copy/paste Matt's post:


"Yup. Sorry. But the reels have been disposed of. To make sure that no one could possibly salvage and use them, I sawed the center hubs in half and gouged the flanges and pulled up the screw holes with a screwdriver and bent and broke the flanges. Yep. On purpose. Sorry. But no one wanted them. And I had no use for them. And I was sure as hell not about to further enable the "But I only want it if it's cheap" mentality (that dominates the reel to reel hobby probably more so than the actual hobby itself does.). The monetary loss of the reels is really inconsequential to me as I've made up for it elsewhere. Like I said: I have a bigger fish to fry here."

Sorry, but I can't understand how someone can act in this way. Of course he can do whatever he wants, but is... *eyepop*

Now, as I said, I prefer to stay off for a time. Hope things go better.Strangley enough I was going to respond to that post and suggest that perhaps lowering the price a bit might attract a few buyers for the reels

[Des-Lab]

Someone please....connect the dots and put 2 and 2 together for me.

I'm proposing to close a section THAT SEES VERY LITTLE USE. And now the place is imploding. Why this one? Why this time? I've been adding and deleting sections on an as-needed basis since day one. No one ever complained about it. I mean if I was proposing to end a key bread and butter section such as cassettes, I'd be able to see your cause for concern. Kindly explain why it's different this time.

No one wants or at least wanted this place to succeed more than me, which is why I've been so passionate about it and constantly sought out feedback from the people who use it. Obviously something is amiss and we appear to be on the wrong track.

Anyone care to point me in the direction of the right one?

[braxus]

Matt its your attitude towards us as members, and not why you are closing it, we have a problem with.

[retrokeeper]

I must agree with Braxus's comment...Rob

[Des-Lab]

Anyone care to provide an example or two of where and how I maliciously picked on, mocked, insulted, or belittled another member? Was anything I said that some of you may not have liked NOT rooted in something factually accurate?

[braxus]

Interesting choice of words to select which may not apply in this situation. I've been very vocal as of late with how I feel about some of your actions, so Im going to sit this one out and let someone else have a go to hit the point home. But I will say this- to sum up the feelings of others- when you keep threatening to do something when things don't go your way, you will lose people or at the mimimum piss them off turning them against being on here. And as another said scolding us for actions which you feel don't go your way either. Talk down to us and we will leave.

[clhboa]

Anyone care to provide an example or two of where and how I maliciously picked on, mocked, insulted, or belittled another member? Was anything I said that some of you may not have liked NOT rooted in something factually accurate?

The temper tantrums of late have become so numerous it's really hard to narrow it down. Close the Buy and Sell section but spare us the tirades.

[hmdropout]

Matt its your attitude towards us as members, and not why you are closing it, we have a problem with.

After all that has been posted in this thread up to this point, it is utterly astounding that you would have to make this statement.

It is also a strong indication that nothing is going to change. In fact, I would be willing to wager that things are only going to get worse.

Righteousness and obliviousness is a toxic combination.

As a novice, a nobody, and a newbie, I will be brief, since my opinion doesn’t count for much to many (but should if anyone really cares about larger communities and cultures).

I was very excited when I stumbled across Tapeheads. As a longtime listener of prerecorded cassettes, Audiokarma failed to meet my needs since everyone was talking about gear instead of tapes. Also, their claim of having no attitude is a false one.

So when I dug around a bit in the recent history of Tapeheads and found people talking a lot about cassettes and a “tape(ing) culture” and excited about a communal cause, I was very excited.

Unfortunately, the people whose posts I really enjoyed don’t seem to post anymore—and I think I now know why.

The Orange County Country Club attitude on display here is really off-putting, and it is a shame that a medium that is regarded as backward and obsolete by the rest of the civilized world is producing such haughtiness.

Speaking of shame....

"Yup. Sorry. But the reels have been disposed of. To make sure that no one could possibly salvage and use them, I sawed the center hubs in half and gouged the flanges and pulled up the screw holes with a screwdriver and bent and broke the flanges. Yep. On purpose. Sorry. But no one wanted them. And I had no use for them. And I was sure as hell not about to further enable the "But I only want it if it's cheap" mentality

You should be ashamed of yourself—on a whole host of levels. This is what a spoiled child would do. It also reveals that you are guilty of the grasping greed and gluttony that you accuse others of engaging in.

These acts and the attitude behind them is a cancer that will destroy any true community or culture.

Sorry to be so harsh, but this really is disheartening to see. You have turned me on to using blank tapes to record and opened a whole new world of listening. And for that I thank you. I am very grateful that you have taken the time to create a website that helps a novice become a little more knowledgeable.

So I really hope that you sit back and look in your heart and realize how you are alienating people who appreciate all the hard work you have put into the site.

But I doubt that will happen based on the evidence in this thread, so go ahead and delete my post and ban me from your fiefdom.

[Web Police]

Members of this forum used to look up to the Leadership. However in the last several months members have been called lazy, cheap and a few other choice adjectives. You will attract more members with honey rather than vinegar. Work on keeping the current members as much as you work on attracting new members.

I think a simple poll work here would work better than letting everyone vent.

Should the Market Place Section remain open?

1. Yes
2. No

If the overwhelming answer is yes and this forum uses lots of bandwidth, maybe a small contribution either voluntary by members at large or by the members using those forums would offset the bandwidth usage and help keep this forum open.

As I said earlier I'd prefer the market place forum remains open, but you have to do what is best for the forum in the long term.

[Des-Lab]

Ok. I will let the members decide (http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=8765). "It doesn't matter" votes will be split evenly towards "yes and no" counts to determine the final outcome. So for example, if twenty people vote "it doesn't matter", I will allocate ten votes to "yes" and ten votes to "no". And in the end, whichever gets the most, that will decide the fate of those sections?

Fair enough?

[RedGrant]

Do we have many members buying and selling on on-going basis?

I have been tracking how many people actually buy or sell, but noticed not that many.


I bought only twice. Both times something I couldn't get easily on ebay.

The amount of space a restaurant occupies should be proportional to its business activity.


Personally, I wouldn't miss that much if the market forum is reduced to only one.

[Des-Lab]

Do we have many members buying and selling on on-going basis?

No

I have been tracking how many people actually buy or sell, but noticed not that many.


I bought only twice. Both times something I couldn't get easily on ebay.

That's good to hear.

The amount of space a restaurant occupies should be proportional to its business activity.

Bingo! That's my whole point.

[braxus]

Personally you could narrow it down to two. For Sale/ Wanted in one, and the Heads Up in the other. I use the Heads Up a lot and was an attraction in this site. And it does get traffic there.

[Marek]

I just wanted to say:

Thanks to Matt for his hard work on the forum...*btoast*

That overall TH is a great place and success...*thumbsup*

Thanks to the Mods for always helping out...*headtunes*

The members here are a great bunch....*jammin*

I personally am committed to the laid back culture of TH and want to see the forum continue on with it's culture and community.

ps I voted in the poll and I encourage others to do so as well.*bananadance*

[Socal Sam]

Matt, if you are running out of computer bandwidth, then get rid of what needs to go in order to keep ALL of TH going. If bandwidth is not critical, I say leave it alone...for now. Marketplace sections don't get as much use and views in any site. In fact, I never visit because I'm too lazy to scroll down.

[perry]

Jeez oh pete's what a hubbub bub! Let me stir it up a little more. In general, I find that there are too many sections and sub paths to follow here. I'm constantly pinging back and forth, trying to find where something was/is/should be...anyone else? Because the sections are so pigeon holed, I'm learning and contributing less and "just coming across interesting things" less. I do not want to have to go to 42 individual sections to find what's going on. I'll say I liked the previous format better. I dislike "Specialties" and separating cassettes and blanks from brands and other tape interests. It was worth trying and I would have thought it cleaner, too, but, it just isn't as easy and as much fun. What's wrong with one section "Marketplace" Buy, sell, wanted, trade, opinions, heads up, all there? I used to learn about Sony, Denon, and Akai decks, but now I have to page through, each section, and feel like I'm "intruding", because I'm not a Sony person or an Akai person. Anyone else have smilar feelings? Sure seems like the traffic pattern has changed quite a bit. My $0.02.

[westgate]

Jeez oh pete's what a hubbub bub! Let me stir it up a little more. In general, I find that there are too many sections and sub paths to follow here. I'm constantly pinging back and forth, trying to find where something was/is/should be...anyone else? Because the sections are so pigeon holed, I'm learning and contributing less and "just coming across interesting things" less. I do not want to have to go to 42 individual sections to find what's going on. I'll say I liked the previous format better. I dislike "Specialties" and separating cassettes and blanks from brands and other tape interests. It was worth trying and I would have thought it cleaner, too, but, it just isn't as easy and as much fun. What's wrong with one section "Marketplace" Buy, sell, wanted, trade, opinions, heads up, all there? I used to learn about Sony, Denon, and Akai decks, but now I have to page through, each section, and feel like I'm "intruding", because I'm not a Sony person or an Akai person. Anyone else have smilar feelings? Sure seems like the traffic pattern has changed quite a bit. My $0.02.

i also liked the previous format more than the current one. it does seem a bit harder to find something of interest than before.
i thought it was just me but apparently not.
at any rate i hope TH doesn't change too much more.

[Warped Bezel]

Bingo! That's my whole point.

I look plenty, and at a lot more than cassettes.

Make an offer is sometimes a problem. If I ask for a price to start I would hope for something. I'm not a huge haggler and I have a budget to deal with. It always seems as it a couple people are trying to save a house. I don't mind the scheme but I still can't guess. I'm not really here to rip somebody off and I want somebody to get their share of the bargain. I think many of us were hoping this wouldn't end up being the it won't sell on eBay so here section. I tried as hard as I could to buy some interesting used cassettes from the nicest guy in his part of England and we both realized enthusiam couldn't save us. Well, darn.

It's the little things that mean a lot. I had to take the thrifty route out of necessity. I had to coax my parents to be careful as they've managed to collapse down three houses and into a tiny but cozy one not far from where they started in 1985 when they went back to my birthplace.

There are some things I can't fathom and some I can't stand.

Not judging your potential buyers

eBay as a demure threat

Threatening or carrying out the destruction on property as a form of blackmail

Number three is the seller's personal problem and should be executed in private. One would think your thriftstore of favor would be happy to sell them in the effort to help somebody. My favorite is the Idaho Youth Ranch Stores and they use the money to help troubled youth find themselves and live a restored life. A few short years ago Al Roker of the Today show came to the Ranch and awarded them supplies and a Mazda vehicle as part of a weeklong tour and giveaway to these organizations that were making a difference and needed help themselves.

Their stuff has helped me when I was in a pinch and I always say they get food and toilet paper from us so it's more than a bargain. A lot more than food and toilet paper. I go there first and I go to the SA store and occasionally the nearby Payette YR.

If we are screaming and begging for less expensive tapes is the forum under used, or UNDER SERVED?

Stuartypoorty's tapes were affordable, nice and used no doubt but shipping was a problem. We have dozens of members in the UK, central and eastern Europe and Australasia and logistics make it hard for any of them to plunder the rich resources of the North American populace. Randy Newman: It's money that matters.

I wish I could find people with this sort of knowledge, comraderies and the resources in the Boise-Western Treasure Valley area but in a region of nearly a million people it's not even close to what I find in even a somewhat tiny forums site with well-known and respected veterans of a thousand forums wars. These people come because despite any ills, service is the way you spread your devotion and that never thins.

Aim lower and go. Parts are probably the largest concern on the site. It doesn't mean those with dreams aren't there. They just don't want a loan when they need to save perhaps.

Reminds me of the classic t-shirt decal...

The two buzzards...one says, "Patience, my ASS! I'm gonna KILL something"!

PS This is post number 900 for me. I hope it makes as much of an impact as number one.

[DALEK SUPREME DL]

I have thought about using the wanted section, but as the previous post says when you are in the UK it makes things A harder and B more expensive to buy or sell from/to some of the far flung places TH members live and America seems to be the main location for the majority of members.

I am sorry to read about all of the bad vibes floating around.

I do agree with Des-labs in regard to using the sales section for an Ebay listing. I think at the very least an item should be listed on TH for say a month and then if no interest go down the Ebay route.

I am also sorry I don't take part here more but my finite time is split between my own mod duties elsewhere and writing for my online mag. However in saying that I do post here more than other forums I belong to other than the forum I mod on.

Tapeheads is a unique place and as such needs to be cherished and loved but compared to other audio forums its main topic is of less interest to the majority and as such it will take time to build the community up compared to a broad church audio forum.

I joined as I was looking for information and help re reel to reel equipment but as a newbie to that topic and a newbie here, I was not in much of a position to contribute except to ask the odd question and post a reply to topics I can post on.

Running a forum is hard and seeing what goes on behind the scenes and being involved myself as a mod elsewhere it is at times heart breaking and frustrating in the extreme so I think if I may suggest that Des-lab is cut a wee bit of slack here and we ask what we can do to help rather than just react to what we perceive as being Des being grumpy. Do we know what is going on behind the scenes in his life or here for the most part the answer is no we don't.

So can we rally round and try and build the community back up and help TH move forward. I for one don't want to see this forum go tits up and close.


Regards Neil

[robert1946]

Just want to say thanks for the site. I have used the Market Place section on numberous occasions, and the people I have delt with to be the best. I hope it remains open. Again thanks

Robert

[Pacific Stereo]

I'm a little bit confused. Simply because the buy and sell section doesn't get a lot of traffic doesn't seem to be a good reason to get rid of it. It's not hurting anything by being there. And I'm not sure I understand the "it's too much trouble and burns up time and bandwidth" argument. I know that on my server, I get on the order of 300 GB/month of transfer for three dollars a month (and it's FAST!), so I cant imagine that costs can be all that high. Perhaps I'm incorrect.

I have an inordinate amount of stuff to sell. And unfortunately, I am REALLY busy at the moment, so selling stuff isn't possible the way I would like right now. I can tell everyone here that I will be ramping up offerings significantly in about 60-90 days (I even have an Immedia RPM turntable and arm that will be going up at some point), but for now, the 1200 is all there is.

I'd much rather offer things here to my friends than do biz on eVilbay or AudioBGone, and will- providing the section remains.

[RedGrant]

Jeez oh pete's what a hubbub bub! Let me stir it up a little more. In general, I find that there are too many sections and sub paths to follow here. I'm constantly pinging back and forth, trying to find where something was/is/should be...anyone else? Because the sections are so pigeon holed, I'm learning and contributing less and "just coming across interesting things" less. I do not want to have to go to 42 individual sections to find what's going on. I'll say I liked the previous format better. I dislike "Specialties" and separating cassettes and blanks from brands and other tape interests. It was worth trying and I would have thought it cleaner, too, but, it just isn't as easy and as much fun. What's wrong with one section "Marketplace" Buy, sell, wanted, trade, opinions, heads up, all there? I used to learn about Sony, Denon, and Akai decks, but now I have to page through, each section, and feel like I'm "intruding", because I'm not a Sony person or an Akai person. Anyone else have smilar feelings? Sure seems like the traffic pattern has changed quite a bit. My $0.02.



You're more articulate than I am on this issue.

[Bob Boyer]

Anyone care to provide an example or two of where and how I maliciously picked on, mocked, insulted, or belittled another member? Was anything I said that some of you may not have liked NOT rooted in something factually accurate?

I'll submit this, Des:

"Since no one has expressed any interest in these reels whatsoever, they will be going out in this coming weeks trash. They have been listed three times on the auction site and here for nearly 60 days. The original cost of procurement will be written off."

While it's rooted completely in fact, a simple "the reels are no longer available" would have been far less insulting. My initial reaction to that statement was: "who pissed in his Post Toasties?"

Look. I joined a few weeks ago looking for information about a new tape recorder I lucked into. I found a couple of interesting people and a lot of good information. For that, I'm thankful. But in the end, I'd rather listen to music than talk about the technology behind it or collect framed mint examples of that technology and in that scheme of things, one of those reels you listed, while nice - and I guess rare - based on your pricing, is just a nice looking take up reel to me. I don't give a damn about your cost of procurement or the fact that you trashed them.

It's not a religion, it's a hobby. And I don't need to be preached to about what I do or don't value especially as I haven't questioned your pricing or asked for any deal. I understand your philosophical underpinnings and while I may or may not completely agree with them, a discussion of them can be enlightening. But that's for a philosophical thread like the one you started earlier - not one where you're offering something tangible for sale.

Think and do anything you want in private. Expressing it in public like you did in the above referenced thread (and the quoted Yahoo post) serves no good purpose and only insults the rest of us. Most of us have waay bigger fish to fry than the pettily-expressed concerns of the owner of one little internet forum.

Now I've sent you a full price offer for one the the remaining 3M reels plus some tape. I'm waiting for a response telling me where and how to send the money or to tell me you don't wish to sell. Grow up and deal with an actual customer instead of talking down to those of us who don't share your obvious passion for the collecting aspect of this hobby. As far as the Marketplace forum goes, that's your business. I'm gonna buy some new tape somewhere. It can be through a TH forum or it can be from an internet vendor but I'll be buying when I can.

Regards,

Bob

[Des-Lab]

Bob:

PM sent. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. But a quick cursory glance over many of the new postings made over the last 36 hours or so should paint a very clear picture of where I'm coming from and why I can't do this right now.

[Elite-ist]

Hi Matt,

I don't see this site spiralling downwards. There are dedicated members, who have been more vocal, lately, of their feelings of what they see. Perhaps, they didn't feel comfortable in sharing those feelings before, because we are dependent upon your hard work in maintaining and improving this site and didn't want to take a chance on upsetting you. Sort of like a dysfunctional family, but a family, nonetheless.

I am guessing, but, I think had you included both moderators, Scorpion8 and BroonsBane, in the decision-making of what you were proposing, there may have been a more formal and less combative approach to the changes in the Marketplace section. A poll is a good start, and I'm sure the results will show most people would like to keep it intact. Since both moderators haven't hopped into the discussion, they are either not wanting to "fan the flames or are just tired of putting out fires", when you act, unilaterally.

After raising four children, it's important to learn, " Don't love the behaviour, but love the child." I still love you, Matt.

Nando.

[Maxell-LN]

After all that has been posted in this thread up to this point, it is utterly astounding that you would have to make this statement.

It is also a strong indication that nothing is going to change. In fact, I would be willing to wager that things are only going to get worse.

Righteousness and obliviousness is a toxic combination.

As a novice, a nobody, and a newbie, I will be brief, since my opinion doesn’t count for much to many (but should if anyone really cares about larger communities and cultures).

I was very excited when I stumbled across Tapeheads. As a longtime listener of prerecorded cassettes, Audiokarma failed to meet my needs since everyone was talking about gear instead of tapes. Also, their claim of having no attitude is a false one.

So when I dug around a bit in the recent history of Tapeheads and found people talking a lot about cassettes and a “tape(ing) culture” and excited about a communal cause, I was very excited.

Unfortunately, the people whose posts I really enjoyed don’t seem to post anymore—and I think I now know why.

The Orange County Country Club attitude on display here is really off-putting, and it is a shame that a medium that is regarded as backward and obsolete by the rest of the civilized world is producing such haughtiness.

Speaking of shame....

Originally Posted by Des-Lab
"Yup. Sorry. But the reels have been disposed of. To make sure that no one could possibly salvage and use them, I sawed the center hubs in half and gouged the flanges and pulled up the screw holes with a screwdriver and bent and broke the flanges. Yep. On purpose. Sorry. But no one wanted them. And I had no use for them. And I was sure as hell not about to further enable the "But I only want it if it's cheap" mentality

You should be ashamed of yourself—on a whole host of levels. This is what a spoiled child would do. It also reveals that you are guilty of the grasping greed and gluttony that you accuse others of engaging in.

These acts and the attitude behind them is a cancer that will destroy any true community or culture.

Sorry to be so harsh, but this really is disheartening to see. You have turned me on to using blank tapes to record and opened a whole new world of listening. And for that I thank you. I am very grateful that you have taken the time to create a website that helps a novice become a little more knowledgeable.

So I really hope that you sit back and look in your heart and realize how you are alienating people who appreciate all the hard work you have put into the site.

But I doubt that will happen based on the evidence in this thread, so go ahead and delete my post and ban me from your fiefdom.

My exact sentiments. *frown* *frown*





I'll submit this, Des:

"Since no one has expressed any interest in these reels whatsoever, they will be going out in this coming weeks trash. They have been listed three times on the auction site and here for nearly 60 days. The original cost of procurement will be written off."

While it's rooted completely in fact, a simple "the reels are no longer available" would have been far less insulting. My initial reaction to that statement was: "who pissed in his Post Toasties?"

Look. I joined a few weeks ago looking for information about a new tape recorder I lucked into. I found a couple of interesting people and a lot of good information. For that, I'm thankful. But in the end, I'd rather listen to music than talk about the technology behind it or collect framed mint examples of that technology and in that scheme of things, one of those reels you listed, while nice - and I guess rare - based on your pricing, is just a nice looking take up reel to me. I don't give a damn about your cost of procurement or the fact that you trashed them.

It's not a religion, it's a hobby. And I don't need to be preached to about what I do or don't value especially as I haven't questioned your pricing or asked for any deal. I understand your philosophical underpinnings and while I may or may not completely agree with them, a discussion of them can be enlightening. But that's for a philosophical thread like the one you started earlier - not one where you're offering something tangible for sale.

Think and do anything you want in private. Expressing it in public like you did in the above referenced thread (and the quoted Yahoo post) serves no good purpose and only insults the rest of us. Most of us have waay bigger fish to fry than the pettily-expressed concerns of the owner of one little internet forum.

Now I've sent you a full price offer for one the the remaining 3M reels plus some tape. I'm waiting for a response telling me where and how to send the money or to tell me you don't wish to sell. Grow up and deal with an actual customer instead of talking down to those of us who don't share your obvious passion for the collecting aspect of this hobby. As far as the Marketplace forum goes, that's your business. I'm gonna buy some new tape somewhere. It can be through a TH forum or it can be from an internet vendor but I'll be buying when I can.

Regards,

Bob

Again, my very thoughts. I don't know what else to say, as the forum I enjoyed so much last year has much deteriorated. Threatening to take hammer to something and smash it to pieces pretty much says a lot about someone, perhaps their grip on reality.

With respect I don't know what is happening in Matt's life, but speaking from my point, being unemployed, with asperger's, cataract eyes, and glaucoma is a tough call, particularly as I may loose my sight (a possibility). I've just been diagnosed with five wisdom teath, and three cracks in my jaw, I'll be going into hospital in July for major surgery.

This is not about how tough I have it, but more to the point how such realities can make one look at the spectrum of life into different peoples circumstances. Though I'm not in exactly a wonderful position, I can still smile and know that I can walk, and live with a roof over my head. I often hear stories on radio, and through the papers of how others can get such a raw deal in life, which makes me more conscious on how I deal with these things, and at the end of the day, we make things as good or bad as we face them.

Only last night on the BBC, I heard a story on how a couple was living in Cambodia in 1975 with their two children. The story evolved on how they were treated when Pol Pot took over, as the wife lost her husband, and the two children were taken into a prison farm, were they had to work sixteen hour days, with no footwear, nothing but shorts on, and would have to work hard in the farms. The children got no education, and were worked to the bone, until the Pol Pot regime was overthrown.

A few weeks ago, I heard another story on NPR (national public radio of america), on how a mother spoke about her deaf and blind child. Apparently, not enough oxygen got through during the birth, as the doctor had screwed up the birth process, the mother is taking this particular doctor to court. I would hate to think how life would be, not having any vision or hearing, it would be pretty awful.

I often have the radio on at night, when I go to sleep, and like listening to these items. This kind of stuff helps me keep my own problems in prospective. Though I realise how I would of liked my life to be different, at the end of the day, the attitude and feel that you give out, is only going to come back to you.

[RedGrant]

Threatening to take hammer to something and smash it to pieces pretty much says a lot about someone, perhaps their grip on reality.


I guess you're not a 'Howard Roark' fan?'

I don't think you would have gotten along with 'Dominique'.

[Nakdoc]

Des,
I think you are hearing from TH regulars. Thanks for adding a poll.

My "issue" is a confession. I am not savvy to running news groups and web sites. Will you take the time to explain your expectations for the individual TH sections? In other words, the Marketplace is not worth supporting because it sits idle?
I confess to haaving sold several (3) items bypassing the Marketplace, but contacting THers directly. If this undocumented exchange is counted as Marketplace useage does that help your perception of the value to TH? I typically spot parts requests in the body of posts and respond directly, again bypassing Marketplace.
And, did it ever occur to you that some may not understand what "free" means. In our culture, nothing is free. I like the idea of linking the Marketplace selling function to some sort of benefit...of membership, of donation, or fee based. You might get more listings by charging a dollar than you would offering them free.
Des,
I can help the Marketplace by listing parts units I have. I also have some project decks I can list, and we can post our entire consignment sales section of some 30 pieces. I am not selling on eBay. I do not operate out of greed, so I am right with you on the TH spirit and intent. Will more listings aid in reaching your goals?
Finally, no ..., to complete my thoughts, Des, your spirit is left to our imagination. I haven't met you except through your posts, so as you change my fragile impressions change more strongly. What you perceive as everyday human emotion we amplify in our ignorance. You agitation is amplified beyond your intent, and without your control. You've accomplished magic here and I know all of us would prefer to be here over anywhere else. I read it in our willingness to tolerate each other, and in our expressions of passion.

[Bob Boyer]

Matt,

Thanks much for your PM response. I certainly appreciate your position regarding your sales efforts and wish you the best with them and the forum whatever you decide to do. FWIW, here in public, I agree with Matt's philosophical position regarding the costs of this, or any hobby. We do have to pay to play, much as we may not like it sometimes. But that's a spirited and engaging argument to be kept away from transactional forums like Marketplace.

Regards,

Bob

[Rex Everything]

I am guessing, but, I think had you included both moderators, Scorpion8 and BroonsBane, in the decision-making of what you were proposing, there may have been a more formal and less combative approach to the changes in the Marketplace section.

Just so you know there are two more of us moderators on the site if ya need us.

[Pentium100]

... We do have to pay to play, much as we may not like it sometimes. ...

So, I absolutely must buy the gold plated diamond encrusted reel instead of a regular, used and scratched, plastic reel? I think I have to google how to rob a bank then...

[RedGrant]

Des,

. I like the idea of linking the Marketplace selling function to some sort of benefit...of membership, of donation, or fee based.

How do you think it would make TH more competitive than ebay?






You might get more listings by charging a dollar than you would offering them free.

Charge to whom? The seller or the prospective buyer or only people who actually buy?


Btw. Can you explain about your lack of enthusiasm for ISF calibration?

[Socal Sam]

71 replies to this topic so far and the speakers and amps forums go days without a post or new thread??? Hmmm...

[Bob Boyer]

So, I absolutely must buy the gold plated diamond encrusted reel instead of a regular, used and scratched, plastic reel? I think I have to google how to rob a bank then...

You can buy whatever you want. No one is holding a gun to your head to buy either of them, but that response (and your question) belong in another thread in another section of this forum that doesn't have anything to do with the actual sales transactions that are allowed here - or this discussion about that forum.

That's my point to you and it was my point to Matt. I'm making my original comment above to clearly and publicly acknowledge that while I disagree with how Matt may be handling his arguments and the effect of that handling on me and maybe other members, I agree with his basic premise and I want him - and everyone else - to know it. It's called transparency in my world. I didn't jump into this fray just for the opportunity to pound on the guy who runs this forum because he has certain opinions. I jumped in because I thought maybe the nature in which he could express them could be better. And that's as far as it goes.

Don't hijack the thread with red herrings.

[Nakdoc]

How do you think it would make TH more competitive than ebay?

Nakdoc:I have to hear what Des believe constitutes success. I think that the goal tells us what the measuring stick is. My view is that TH Marketplace adds a level f trust and saves the seller some $.




Charge to whom? The seller or the prospective buyer or only people who actually buy?
Nakdoc: I assume seller, but my point is more about the perception of free. If we have something, money, effort, time, invested in something we will value it more, and respect it more.


Btw. Can you explain about your lack of enthusiasm for ISF calibration?
Nakdoc: Ask in a different forum. I'll try to look for it.

[Nakdoc]

One thing we all could do is go into the "Wanted to Buy" and "Wanted to sell" and delete our old listings. I went through and deleted my old ones. Perhaps the dustiness of the old listings scares people away.

I saw that I was going to sell Naknut a B&O BC9000 deck, but never got back to him. This is an example of the stuff a moderator might sort through and keep fresh. Fresh listings will build traffic.

I'll volunteer to moderate the marketplace.

[Des-Lab]

I believe that the outcome of all of this vís-a-vís 1) the number of comments in this post, 2) the number of votes in the ongoing poll, and 3) the number of views in both discussions when coupled with the actual amount of commerce that transpires will completely exonerate me of all charges that I'm a nutcase hell bent on self-destruction of this site that I have untold thousands of hours invested in.

DL-Crazy. Like a fox.

[RedGrant]

http://nasonart.com/personal/lifelessons/fountainhead.html

[braxus]

...will completely exonerate me of all charges that I'm a nutcase hell bent on self-destruction of this site that I have untold thousands of hours invested in.

DL-Crazy. Like a fox.

Nice try, but I guess it depends if you are able to control your outbursts from now on.

[Elite-ist]

Just so you know there are two more of us moderators on the site if ya need us.

I'm sorry I missed you Paul. Who was the other moderator I missed?

Nando.

[Web Police]

I'm sorry I missed you Paul. Who was the other moderator I missed?

Nando.

Njord Noatun is a moderator also. *thumbsup*

[Warped Bezel]

One thing we all could do is go into the "Wanted to Buy" and "Wanted to sell" and delete our old listings. I went through and deleted my old ones. Perhaps the dustiness of the old listings scares people away.

I saw that I was going to sell Naknut a B&O BC9000 deck, but never got back to him. This is an example of the stuff a moderator might sort through and keep fresh. Fresh listings will build traffic.

I'll volunteer to moderate the marketplace.

Well, that's a good idea but on the other hand BUMPING seems to be a curse as well.

Perhaps the rules for The Marketplace should be simplified or summarized at the top of the section instead of just a sticky link. At least one person either missed them or ?

I've sat on my listings a few times, trying to prioritize newer and more expensive gear or push something that should be sold here if it could be helped. I perceived I have a doofus effect in that respect and quit but on the other hand I can a whole shelf of tape decks with bad belts etc and two more DBX decks where that came for.

Since I got the Teac for $5.00 in the first place I hoped it wasn't unreasonable to ask for the purchase price and a 2 12-packs worth of Diet Shasta Rootbeer. My 44th birthday IS June 26 and I have new lavarocks and still have plenty of gas in the barbeque after all. Thought somebody might like it because I have too much stuff and you will see the tape decks as but one example below. I have 3 CT-F500s alone...

I think Robert finally sold all his items and I'm glad even if I couldn't afford some of it...I had my heart set on the CT-3000 and if DHL hadn't EATEN my PL-3000 3-4 years ago you could've probably seen me quoted in The Vintage Knob talking about owning half the stack.

Did I realize? No, actually and it was going to be a gift anyway (that never happened in full).

My stuff is still for sale (or trade) and it's a thimblefull of what I have but I prefer to list better stuff that has potential if I can. There is a local guy who takes some things now and then and the last time cleared out two reel decks and a bunch of other things and I'm going to pursue that again this month if I can. the Sony TC-165 is still available as well and I have pictures either there or ready to email.

BRAXUS, I'm as upset as you but it's time to focus your energies on getting this going better. There is stress EVERYWHERE and it can't help if it spills like a cold drink on to the carpet. Don't bury the hatchet but we need you as much as anyone else. You are like that guy with the Orion book over there who tells us everything we want to know about our tapes and he is a big help in that respect...so too are you.

Cassette decks aren't haute audio couture, they are fun machines that help us save the sounds we love. Some are fancier. Just like any other audio equipment we can have them for $5 to 2 grand and be satisfied.

There are folks who love Dictaphones as we love cassettes. Recording is really neat and we, the archivists on this planet just hate to lose them.

Matt owns this site but ALL OF US are Tapeheads, as he calls us. We all have to make it run and it's not going to work storming the Maginot Line (me neither).

PICTURES:

[Eldorado]

I believe that the outcome of all of this vís-a-vís 1) the number of comments in this post, 2) the number of votes in the ongoing poll, and 3) the number of views in both discussions when coupled with the actual amount of commerce that transpires will completely exonerate me of all charges that I'm a nutcase hell bent on self-destruction of this site that I have untold thousands of hours invested in.
I'm sitting that poll out, but give you the power of proxy to use my vote in any way that you think helps your cause. It's not the real issue. And if you feel the number of comments here is disproportionately large, isn't it time to ask yourself why?

[Njord Noatun]

I thought stereo would be more fun than bikes... Bicycles are also fun and have the added benefit of providing exercise and endless smugness factor vis-a-vis the non-riding public!

http://triplec.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/cyclist.jpg

[Warped Bezel]

Bicycles are also fun and have the added benefit of providing exercise and endless smugness factor vis-a-vis the non-riding public!

http://triplec.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/cyclist.jpg

I am the fat and lazy one but I could beat that dude with one leg tied and a greasy fried chicken breast in one hand anyway. Cruisers don't give you much of an attitude.

[RedGrant]

I believe that the outcome of all of this vís-a-vís 1) the number of comments in this post, 2) the number of votes in the ongoing poll, and 3) the number of views in both discussions when coupled with the actual amount of commerce that transpires will completely exonerate me of all charges that I'm a nutcase hell bent on self-destruction of this site that I have untold thousands of hours invested in.

DL-Crazy. Like a fox.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swOxKu80JpU

The trailer made a goop on 'selfishness' on Peter Keating part, but otherwise not bad.

[RedGrant]

The temper tantrums of late have become so numerous it's really hard to narrow it down. Close the Buy and Sell section but spare us the tirades.


I enjoy his tirades. It's one of the reasons why I am sticking around.