Vintage Tapes - Success

[Scorpion8]

I just recorded an old Alan Parsons Project CD Tales of Mystery and Imagination to a vintage 1986 Maxell XLII-S tape on my Denon DR-M20 3-head deck. No Dolby, and bias adjusted to the 9 o'clock position on the bias fine tuning adjustment. Peaks set at ~ +3 - 4dB on the Denon peak level meters.

Talk about sweet! The depth and fullness of the recording is superb. I have it playing back right now on a Teac V-1RX 3-head deck and it's a superb copy. There's very little hiss at all, even on silent passages.

Sweeeeeeeet!

[macster]

I just recorded an old Alan Parsons Project CD Tales of Mystery and Imagination to a vintage 1986 Maxell XLII-S tape on my Denon DR-M20 3-head deck. No Dolby, and bias adjusted to the 9 o'clock position on the bias fine tuning adjustment. Peaks set at ~ +3 - 4dB on the Denon peak level meters.

Talk about sweet! The depth and fullness of the recording is superb. I have it playing back right now on a Teac V-1RX 3-head deck and it's a superb copy. There's very little hiss at all, even on silent passages.

Sweeeeeeeet!


How about a tape drop?

M~

[Marc Hugo]

Hi Scorpion,

That sound tasty indeed. Was that tape a virgin? Sorry to pry?!!! Also, that's getting the most out of the tape, level wise. Impressive. I meant to ask - what turntable did you use for this - and the cartridge?

Thanks for the trip into your magnetic sanctum. I have the Alan Parson's story on tape (100 minutes) - fascinating stuff. His career with EMI and the Beatles recording jobs he did at Abbey Road - then his own creative work.

Cheers - Marc

[Scorpion8]

Hi Scorpion,

That sound tasty indeed. Was that tape a virgin? Sorry to pry?!!! Also, that's getting the most out of the tape, level wise. Impressive. I meant to ask - what turntable did you use for this - and the cartridge?

Thanks for the trip into your magnetic sanctum. I have the Alan Parson's story on tape (100 minutes) - fascinating stuff. His career with EMI and the Beatles recording jobs he did at Abbey Road - then his own creative work.

Cheers - Marc

Marc, actually it was off a CD. But the ones I tape at home come off a Dual CS-714Q with Empire OP-5 pickup. An no, not a virgin tape. This one was a thrift store $0.10 score as a used tape that I bulk erased and then re-used. But it was in perfect shape, the j-card never written on, and even still had the labels inside the Norelco box.

I've always loved the theme album where a single story is told over the course of the album. Even Rush's 2112 (Side A) tells a great story. APP Tales of Mystery and Imagination is one of those you have to sit and listen to all the way through.

Mac-- forgive, but what's a tape-drop?

[Acoustic]

Mac-- forgive, but what's a tape-drop?

I was wonderin' the same thing.

[macster]

I was wonderin' the same thing.

Well

It's a -- Cassette tape sound file > computer > post the sound file on the internet ----- with a link so that we can hear it. In other threads a cassette version of a needle drop.

m~

[Scorpion8]

In other threads a cassette version of a needle drop.


A needle drop? This ain't the 'hood. I dunno, sounds nefarious ..... :D

[macster]

A needle drop? This ain't the 'hood. I dunno, sounds nefarious ..... :D


What do you think about when the doctor/nurse tells you that "we need to give you a shot, or we need to give you an injection," now that sounds nefarious.

Okay, how about, can you post a sample from the tape that you made so that we can play it on our computers?


m~

[Scorpion8]

Hey, I've been getting allergy shots since I was six or so, so needles don't scare me. The only thing about doctors is when they tell you to bend over so they can check I better not feel a hand on each shoulder AND still end up getting probed. Oh no, we're gonna get stuwee all fired up and hot n' bothered .... :D

Okay, that I can understand. Tape to .wav file or so. Lemme see what I can do. The whole tape side, or a few snippets?

[Web Police]

A few snippets would be good for me, but I could live with a whole side of the tapes.

[macster]

Hey, I've been getting allergy shots since I was six or so, so needles don't scare me. The only thing about doctors is when they tell you to bend over so they can check I better not feel a hand on each shoulder AND still end up getting probed. Oh no, we're gonna get stuwee all fired up and hot n' bothered .... :D

Okay, that I can understand. Tape to .wav file or so. Lemme see what I can do. The whole tape side, or a few snippets?

Sir

Well, snippets would probably be best, so as not to run afoul of the music industry police.

M~

[stuwee]

Hey, I've been getting allergy shots since I was six or so, so needles don't scare me. The only thing about doctors is when they tell you to bend over so they can check I better not feel a hand on each shoulder AND still end up getting probed. Oh no, we're gonna get stuwee all fired up and hot n' bothered .... :D

Okay, that I can understand. Tape to .wav file or so. Lemme see what I can do. The whole tape side, or a few snippets?

*pork*'n, I prefer leatherlined stainless steel cuffs and old iron chains, hands on both shoulder's is sooo missionary postion :D:p

BTW, Alan Parsons is gay, Eric Woolfson who sings on most of APP stuff was his long time partner, not that it makes any difference, Dale has every APP LP ever made, I personally have most, including TOMAI on gold vinyl, it's one of the few colored LP's that sounds superb!! Dale also got 'Freudiana', which was only released in Russia after the Berlin Wall came down.

A joke an old friend of mine told me (he's an alien from outer-space) about probing is they never really knew why they did it to us earthlings, the only thing they learned is that about 10% of the population actually enjoyed it *devil*

[Scorpion8]

BTW, Alan Parsons is gay, Eric Woolfson who sings on most of APP stuff was his long time partner, not that it makes any difference...

Actually I could care less, but that is an interesting tidbit to know. Kind of surprises you at first, like Rob Halford, but then appears obvious. Whether it affected his music and made it better or worse, well, it is what it is. I enjoy his stuff and could care less about his preferences.

[Acoustic]

Well It's a -- Cassette tape sound file > computer > post the sound file on the internet ----- with a link so that we can hear it. In other threads a cassette version of a needle drop. M~

OK.. I get it now. I remember you did one a bit back now and found that post. I got some Aretha... 192 bit rate MP3's. From the Akai tape to your CR-2A. You didn't mention the source but they sounded OK but lacked fidelity (kind of like my x-wife... but that's another story*hypnot*)... was it from an LP? Inquiring question... is this supposed to show the characteristics of the tape? When you rip your MP3 do you EQ it?

[Scorpion8]

You didn't mention the source but they sounded OK but lacked fidelity (kind of like my x-wife... but that's another story*hypnot*)...

Hey, I've got (or had) one of those. *Hi5* Join the club, man.

[stuwee]

Actually I could care less, but that is an interesting tidbit to know. Kind of surprises you at first, like Rob Halford, but then appears obvious. Whether it affected his music and made it better or worse, well, it is what it is. I enjoy his stuff and could care less about his preferences.

No big shakes to me either, he's been quite open about it in interviews lately since Eric and he broke up,that made me sad 'cuz they made some of the best music that I grew up on. I've not heard anything new from APP, has anyone??

Craig

the second side, 'Fall of the house of the Usher' would have been the perfect backdrop for the storm we had last night!! Hell, the whole album!

[Mr. Lin]

Thanks for sharing this with us. So let me ask you this: does the tape sound better than the CD? :D It's the first thing that popped into my head when I read this, because, as you know, I've been recording from CD to tape and have ended up with many of the tapes sounding better than the CD.

I love APP, my personal favorites are "I Robot" and "Eye in the Sky." Unfortunately (or should I say, fortunately) I only have his albums on vinyl - meaning at the moment there will be no taping of APP for me.

Good stuff.

[Scorpion8]

The biggest shame is that some of these performers aren't making stuff anymore. It's all flash-in-the-pan boy bands or teenybopper underwear cutesy girls who have no staying power. I've been an APP fan since about '76, and try to grab extra or spare copies of any of their stuff anytime I see it.

[Mr. Lin]

The biggest shame is that some of these performers aren't making stuff anymore. It's all flash-in-the-pan boy bands or teenybopper underwear cutesy girls who have no staying power. I've been an APP fan since about '76, and try to grab extra or spare copies of any of their stuff anytime I see it.

Yeah, what is Alan Parsons up to these days? The best thing about the APP albums is how amazing the production it - which is obviously what one would expect.

[stuwee]

Yeah, what is Alan Parsons up to these days? The best thing about the APP albums is how amazing the production it - which is obviously what one would expect.

This site is pretty cool :

http://www.alanparsons.com/

[macster]

OK.. I get it now. I remember you did one a bit back now and found that post. I got some Aretha... 192 bit rate MP3's. From the Akai tape to your CR-2A. You didn't mention the source but they sounded OK but lacked fidelity (kind of like my x-wife... but that's another story*hypnot*)... was it from an LP? Inquiring question... is this supposed to show the characteristics of the tape? When you rip your MP3 do you EQ it?

My bad, the source was a 4MBeard LP from my LP 12 > the CR2A which I purchased off of Ebay > Computer. I didn't think that it was too bad for that machine.

I don't change or fix the file in any way when I post a tape/needle drop. I'm just learning how to do it. So I use the 192/CD quality settings for now.

Yes it was "supposed" to show the characteristics of the tape.

M~

[braxus]

Im not too familiar with all of Alan's records, but 'Eye In the Sky' is a great album I have.

[niklasthedolphin]

Thanks for sharing this with us. So let me ask you this: does the tape sound better than the CD? :D It's the first thing that popped into my head when I read this, because, as you know, I've been recording from CD to tape and have ended up with many of the tapes sounding better than the CD.

I love APP, my personal favorites are "I Robot" and "Eye in the Sky." Unfortunately (or should I say, fortunately) I only have his albums on vinyl - meaning at the moment there will be no taping of APP for me.

Good stuff.

If I were you, I would record your CD's to tape > digitize the tapes > burn them on a CD > record the CD's to tape > digitize the tapes > burn them on CD's > record them on tapes > digitize the tapes > burn them on a CD > record the CD's to tape > digitize the tapes > burn them on CD's etc. etc.

You see, according to your estimated bettering of the sound, you would by now have the best sound ever in the world. Sweeter sound than any angels or Odyseys sirenes could ever produce.

IMHO taping CD's might alter the sound but a copy is never better than the original.
If you cheris the altering of the character in the sound, that's just fine but mind you that "better" in you post is a very subjective statement.

*Hi5*

"dolph"

[stuwee]

If I were you, I would record your CD's to tape > digitize the tapes > burn them on a CD > record the CD's to tape > digitize the tapes > burn them on CD's > record them on tapes > digitize the tapes > burn them on a CD > record the CD's to tape > digitize the tapes > burn them on CD's etc. etc.

You see, according to your estimated bettering of the sound, you would by now have the best sound ever in the world. Sweeter sound than any angels or Odyseys sirenes could ever produce.

IMHO taping CD's might alter the sound but a copy is never better than the original.
If you cheris the altering of the character in the sound, that's just fine but mind you that "better" in you post is a very subjective statement.

*Hi5*

"dolph"

I think you've misunderstood Mr. Lin. Repeated processes like you've mentioned is not gonna do anything "nicer" to the sound, but as you imply, make things worse. *devil*, a one time copy of a CD (might) have a slight warming or more analog-like sound on especialy harsh CD's. This has been debated here and many other forums. I personally have witnessed this phenomenon and have mentioned it all over the planet. The only serious sites have been HiFiNews, AudioKarma, and here. There have been disbelievers on all the sites. I hear what I hear, as does Mr. Lin, I don't have tubes in my system at this time, btw, your AA stuff from Italy is first rate in my book :-)<-:-)<-.

However, with my lowly Marantz receiver in the chain, warms up the sound considerably, is it true to the original recording, *dunno*, I wasn't there when the tracks were layed down. I prefer the sound of harsher CD's put on tape. An interesting aside is Mr. Lin's experiment of the tape he made for his girlfriend, she noticed the phenomenon enough to mention it to him. I too have some non-audiophile female friends with great ears, I use them to confirm my thoughts on sounds I think I hear. One of them can hear the differences in power amps, as do I. That is another sore spot with alot of folks, Julian Hirsch from Stereo Review said till he died, RIP, that NO ONE could hear a diff in a true double blind test. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you dolph.

You have a very high-end system(s), mine is just low-end stuff carefully chosen for synergy with each other, no fancy interconnects, I did however, have dedicated power lines and output reciepticals installed in two rooms. That's about as fancy as I got, I've borrowed high-end cables and heard wonderfull things, I haven't reached the level in the hobby to commit to buying and using them full-time.

I hear a big(subjective big/huge) difference in poorly mastered CD's to high quality tape(allowing myself some snobishness there) I really don't care for type I or even type II tapes. I've mentioned this many times before. In sum, I hear what I hear. I back up Mr. Lin on what he hears as well.

Craig

[Marc Hugo]

IMHO taping CD's might alter the sound but a copy is never better than the original.
If you cheris the altering of the character in the sound, that's just fine but mind you that "better" in you post is a very subjective statement.

*Hi5*

"dolph"[/QUOTE]

In theory, this is true. Of course, just to be tight on definitions, this "original" means "source" or "previous generation." However, in practice, this is to discount the very real positive impact of filtering both in the analogue and digital domain. Outcomes, when properly executed, are variably (as opposed to invariably) better and therefore worthwhile. This theory applies within A or D domains and can beneficially cross over from D to A worlds and back.

Committing to analogue tape a recording of an mpeg (already heavily acoustically diminished by data reduction), would hardly be progress considering a tape by comparison is a high definition medium.

There are a number of scholarly articles on "cleaning" up music signals within both domains as well as signal (various bitstream management protocols) cleaning via domain transfer. Pioneer applied a straightforward ADC/DAC NR in a cross domain application with its CT-670D (and a series of twin decks on both sides of the Atlantic, such as the CT-W616DR etc) during the commercial sunset days of cassette. The model to get is the single deck 670; it is not only very fine sounding, but technically fascinating. Not to mention, rare.

The question perhaps is, can we achieve any measure of it in the home studio idiom and come out smelling of roses?

Cheers – Marc

[Marc Hugo]

Merci Craig, agreed. Ek stem saam (Afrikaans: literally "I together voice") In fact, I think those boys at Stereo Review were more than somewhat hard of hearing and trying their best to justify a substantial outlay for lab equipment and measuring tools. I think in many cases, Julian's eardrums had long since gone out to graze. He used to wax on and on about "if you can measure it you can hear it" and "if you can hear it can be measured". Unfortunately, he didn't explain how the latter could actually be accomplished, considering the obstinate old sod would first have had to admit that he heard it in the first place. Their specifications-oriented universe became tiresome in the extreme. Of course, one can have a bit too much subjectivity too. Ideally there should be a healthy combination of both. I will locate (and post here) a really hilarious pamphlet that Rane put out a few years ago - an owner/operators spec sheet for a Rane Pseudoacoustic Infector, which poked a jesting finger at our audiophile world(and in effect at themselves too)!!

Cheers - Marc

[Mr. Lin]

Dolph you have indeed misunderstood what I said. Stuwee explains it pretty well, and yes, it's subjective, but also take careful note of what Marc said two posts above. We've already been through this argument about nothing sounding better than the original, and copies being inferior, and as I said then, I go by what I hear. What I often hear when taping from CD to tape is better dynamics and a more spacious sound, occasionally even some details that were less noticeable or real sounding when listening to the CD. I won't pretend to have a good explanation for this, but clearly I'm not the only one who's experienced it.

Stuwee also brought up my recent experience making a tape for my girlfriend. She's not particularly interested in the audio hobby, and rarely says anything about how good something sounds when I upgrade my system. In fact, she often says she can't hear any difference at all, which is partly because she doesn't know how to listen critically. Yet when I made her this tape from two CDs she actually became quite excited about what she heard, and it was a big surprise for me. The point is that something is happening that makes the music somehow more pleasant to listen to for some of us. In my opinion it just breathes some life into the music.

[macster]

.

IMHO, what you are trying to explain, doesn't need an explanation.

m~

[Mr. Lin]

IMHO, what you are trying to explain, doesn't need an explanation.

m~

Apparently to some people it does.