Naks With Azimuth Adjust

[braxus]

What are all the Nak decks that have an playback head azimuth adjustment? Im aware of the CR-7A and the Dragon, but what else is there? I read someone comment on here or somewhere about a lower end Nak that had this feature. I did a customers cassettes to CD today (home business) and the high end on her tapes was not where I'd would have liked it to be. It could be because my deck is off, but all tapes are different anyway.

I might end up biting the bullet and getting a Nak deck with this feature. Anyone? When mentioning models, let on whether they are two head or three.

[Acoustic]

The ones I know, some are auto adjust and some can be manual adjusted .... the ZX-9, ZX-7, any with 700 in the model name and the 660ZX, 670ZX, 680, 680ZX, 681ZX, the ones you mentioned and the DR-10. I am sure there are more. These, I believe are all 3 head decks.

Interestingly I have a lower end Yamaha with a screw hole under the door labeled Azimuth Adjust. And sure I wished my CR-5's had it, they are mainly a CR-7 without the azimuth or auto calibrations (and other things like a real time counter)... though that is a LOT of difference.

Yep... if your copying old cassettes to CD and had azimuth correction you probably would have gotten better results. When I playback a Nak tape on that two head Yamaha it sounds good but when I record on it- playing the tape on it or my Nak's, lack a bit. So I wonder if what your doing would be just fine on something like it... a Yamaha TC-520. I got it for $10. Hmmm.

[Teresa]

The ones I know, some are auto adjust and some can be manual adjusted .... the ZX-9, ZX-7, any with 700 in the model name and the 660ZX, 670ZX, 680, 680ZX, 681ZX, the ones you mentioned and the DR-10. I am sure there are more. These, I believe are all 3 head decks.

Interestingly I have a lower end Yamaha with a screw hole under the door labeled Azimuth Adjust. And sure I wished my CR-5's had it, they are mainly a CR-7 without the azimuth or auto calibrations (and other things like a real time counter)... though that is a LOT of difference.

Yep... if your copying old cassettes to CD and had azimuth correction you probably would have gotten better results. When I playback a Nak tape on that two head Yamaha it sounds good but when I record on it- playing the tape on it or my Nak's, lack a bit. So I wonder if what your doing would be just fine on something like it... a Yamaha TC-520. I got it for $10. Hmmm.

Get the service manual for your CR-5 as I am sure it has manual azimuth adjustment as my Nak CR-1A has manual azimuth using a set screw accessible with the door removed. On my CR-1A there are 2 screws one on each side of the Record/Play head, the service manual told me which screw to adjust. My Nakamichi CR-1A really sounds fantastic now that it's azimuth is optimized. Once you finish adjusting you will need something to set the screw so it doesn't come out of adjustment. I used nail polish.

[Marc Hugo]

What are all the Nak decks that have an playback head azimuth adjustment? Im aware of the CR-7A and the Dragon, but what else is there? I read someone comment on here or somewhere about a lower end Nak that had this feature. I did a customers cassettes to CD today (home business) and the high end on her tapes was not where I'd would have liked it to be. It could be because my deck is off, but all tapes are different anyway.

I might end up biting the bullet and getting a Nak deck with this feature. Anyone? When mentioning models, let on whether they are two head or three.


Hi Braxus,

I'm temporarily rusty on this one: The decks with playback azimuth adjustment are the CR-7, for sure, and it can be controlled from the remote too; Dragon which has an automatic PB head aligment systems called NAAC, the DR1 and the Cassette Deck One (these 2 are manual).

Most of the others have Rec Head azimuth adjustment - I have a 682ZX with this feature which is a function performed before recording a cassette to ensure phase accuracy etc. All the 680s had this and of course some others - the ZXs had I think. In fact, the ZX7 is really pretty much a 682ZX without the beautiful blue flouresecent metering.

I have forgotten about the ZX and ZXLs series. But there is a sure difference between the RH and PBH feature. Manually doing it with a little screw driver - this can be done and is heartily non-recommended unless you have a set of realignment tapes to undo the mess. If you're adjusting it off the front panel as with, say the DR1, then that's an excellent way of getting the crispest, cleanest rendition of tapes, and especially "alien" tapes.

Do not pay too much attention to the naysayers about only getting decks by Nakamichi such as this model or that model. The later DRs, compared with say, 670 and 680 series were no slouches. The only thing is that from the CR series onwards they featured the Sankyo sourced transport and not the more durable Nak transport. However, I have decks with both eras and neither have given me a days hassle. The heads are all Nak, as with the extraordinary rec head op amps, and many other design features which include very clever anti-resonance materials.

For the accurate playback of tapes recorded all over the show (so to speak), the DR1 and Cassette Deck One will give you tremendous satisfaction as well as the feature you are looking for. Once in a while, the Matsushita capstan motor on the Cassette Deck series may need to be replaced - but as far as I can recall, this can be found without too much trouble - one taken from a 480will work fine too.

All the best,

Marc

[braxus]

Thanks for the replies guys. The DR-1 was the one I was trying to remember. Anyway I don't want a deck I have to use a screw driver to set. Just a deck that has a knob control on the front panel to do it. Also it has to be the playback head, not record.

[Marc Hugo]

Get the service manual for your CR-5 as I am sure it has manual azimuth adjustment as my Nak CR-1A has manual azimuth using a set screw accessible with the door removed. On my CR-1A there are 2 screws one on each side of the Record/Play head, the service manual told me which screw to adjust. My Nakamichi CR-1A really sounds fantastic now that it's azimuth is optimized. Once you finish adjusting you will need something to set the screw so it doesn't come out of adjustment. I used nail polish.

Hey Teresa!!

You're one ahead of me!! I'm glad you came right doing it yourself. And of course, you have a near unbeatable advantage. The nail polish!!

Take care... Braxus - I'll find some good pics of your future child.

Marc

[MacGyver]

did you know that Nakamichi made a car deck in the early 90's with ajustable azimuth?

[macster]

Dunno if I'd do a manual, no test equipment playback adjustment on a highend Nak. If it's a lower end deck and it's a spare then go for it. Exactly what is a lowend deck? Dunno, it's up to the user. Anyway, that's just a personal opinion. For decks with "normal" consumer adjustable azimuth go here http://www.naks.com/ and click on the "NAKS" link. Once you get to the page you can click on a model and get the information that you desire.

M~

[braxus]

Is the Dr-1 a good deck and does it sound anywhere near as good as the top end decks from Nak?

[macster]

Is the Dr-1 a good deck and does it sound anywhere near as good as the top end decks from Nak?

Braxus

This would be a good question to post on the NAKTALKS list. Also, this was brought up there in the April thread entitled "Opinion on Cassette Deck 1 or DR-1"

M~

[Nak_novice]

did you know that Nakamichi made a car deck in the early 90's with ajustable azimuth?

They made several of these and also an auto azimuth deck called the TD-1200 with NAAC which utilised the dragon head.

[Marc Hugo]

Is the Dr-1 a good deck and does it sound anywhere near as good as the top end decks from Nak?

Yes, Braxus; indeed it is an excellent cassette deck. When it was built, decks from that stable that are vaunted to be the top of the pile had not been made for 6+ years, thinking of the CR-4, definitely the 5 and the CR-7. Others such as the 700ZXE, all the ZXLs, the ZXs and the wonderful 680s had been discontinued nearly 15 years before. It doesn't seem such a consideration now against the backdrop of time, but it has to be considered because of spares and probable mileage. I have 4 Naks and enjoy them all. They have some sonic character-type differences amongst them (which stretch across more than 30 years), but I assure you, to the purported or inferred difference in sound between the models is grossly, often hilariously exaggerated by Nak devotees. (Of which I am one). All they understand is price, not the technology. I was a member at Naktalk for a 6-7 years - you'll get some good views there. I have tarried in rejoining since changing my email address. Still, Wouter Heike has a wonderful site and naktalk is a great list to subscribe to.

Back to the DR-1: when it was sold in '92-about '97, it was priced and performed against the top decks from everyone else. It was Nak's top deck and this was 16 years ago). It was the standard by which to measure the best of the rest as well as evaluate new digital recording methods. I have magazimes with reviews of the DR series that repeatedly saw them awarded 5stars and glowing praise. They didn't talk about their predecessors which had long disappeared from the market. Apart from a couple of things (lack of remote control unless by Nak system remote, rec head azimuth adjust, and FG servo motor direct drive) it has every significant Nak design feature ever developed. Having a ZX-9, CR-7 or one of the ZXLs would show audible superiority but to pretend there is a chasm is absurd. These chasms existed with other brands, certainly, but not with Nakamichi. That is why even the cheapest Naks were pricey. Even a modest properly serviced 480 sounds sensational. The more expensive ones had more advanced calibration, azimuth adjustments, or other features like tape search and the features I mention in above.

My suggestion is to dodge as best you can the widespread pretentiousness that I found pervasive in the Nak subculture. I love them, be in no doubt, but there seemed no cure for a dollar and model-driven pomposity that misses the philosophy of Nakamichi design by a mile.

Cheers - Marc

[braxus]

What is a typical price of the DR-1 these days. If its way up there, then the CR-7A would be a better choice. Shame the ZX-9 doesn't have it.

[Scorpion8]

My suggestion is to dodge as best you can the widespread pretentiousness that I found pervasive in the Nak subculture. I love them, be in no doubt, but there seemed no cure for a dollar and model-driven pomposity that misses the philosophy of Nakamichi design by a mile.

Well, that about sums it up. I couldn't agree more.

[niklasthedolphin]

PB head Azimuth is a cool feature to have if you play a lot of tapes from other machines.

But if you have a machine with Rec Head Azimuth and only play your own tapes, PB head Azimuth is not realy needed.

Anyway, I would love to have the Tandberg TCD 911 only-playback model with adjustable PB head azimuth, IF I will ever see it on the market.

Didn't see any the last 8 years.

"dolph"

[braxus]

This would be a good question to post on the NAKTALKS list.

Can you post a link to that site? I did a search twice and came up with nothing.

[macster]

Can you post a link to that site? I did a search twice and came up with nothing.

Go to the Archives section, select the April 2008 thread and click on it. Do a search in that thread for "DR-1". There are several bits of information in that thread on the DR1.


M~

[braxus]

Go to the Archives section, select the April 2008 thread and click on it. Do a search in that thread for "DR-1". There are several bits of information in that thread on the DR1.


M~

No Im talking about the site itself. I did a search for NakTalk and came up with nothing.

[Flyquail56]

No Im talking about the site itself. I did a search for NakTalk and came up with nothing.

Go to www.naks.com and click on the naktalk link in the sidebar on the left.

Mike

[braxus]

Go to www.naks.com and click on the naktalk link in the sidebar on the left.

Mike

Ok. Thanks Fly.

[macster]

Go here and log in http://www.naks.com/mailman/private/naktalk/ I'm sorry that my response is slow, I've been playing with the AKAI tapes.

m~

[braxus]

Well Im on a roll this week. I just bid on a BIN auction on Ebay for a DR-1. I know its not a super deck as compared to other Naks like the 1000ZXL, the ZX-9, CR-7A, and the Dragon. But I already now have a super deck (Tandberg 3014), so the DR-1 will go into my second system to use for transfers to CD. I will also have my Sony 909ES in that system, so all is good.

Here is a pic of the deck from the auction I got below.

[macster]

Braxus

Congrats on getting the deck, and here's to you having a thousand years worth of trouble free service with it.

M~

[braxus]

Does anyone have any opinions on the DR-1 deck? I know it comes with the gear drive which is good, but what about the sound?

[braxus]

I had this response from someone on the DR-1. Do others agree with his stand on the sound of this deck? Im aware the build quality isn't there, but the sound is what Im concerned about.

"In MHO, the DR 1 s not even in the league of the other Naks mentioned such as the Cr, ZX or ZXL series decks.

Sound is subjective. Even so, the Dr1 is way way below the CR, ZX decks by a long shot in terms of the sound quality and should not even be compared to them for keeping the playing field fair. The ZXL .....Aw well, I shall not comment on this one, for it may start a whole new thread again, which we all do not want . Do we?

The DR series were created by Nakamichi in the 90s just to stay in business in the tape formats as CDs were becoming dominant players. It was like Nak said me too.....amongst other manufacturers of the time making cassette decks.

Of course, the DR1 i a good deck compared, perhaps to other manufacturers of the time, but build quality was way down in Naks at the time and most were made in Singapore, Malaysia and not Japan like the older vintage Naks."

[Marc Hugo]

Hi Braxus,

You have my views already on previous posts. I am amazed by some of the drivel people write. This sort of opinion is a type of "broken telephone" it derives from paraphrasing others, then turning it into hyperbole.

The build of the DR-1 is very good - it lacks for nothing in terms of rigidity of chassis, required isolation and layout of mechanical systems, current management and signal processing elements. The motor that drives the gear-capstan mechanism is a brute that won't give up in a hurry.

It is better than all the CR1-CR-3 specs-wise and as good build wise. Unlike the CRs it will never give you uphill in regard to idler wheel issues. The CR-4 could be calibrated more closely. Same applies to the ZXs. The above quoted commentator possibly doesn't know those models, because these comments arise from a narrow knowledge of only the TOTL (most expensive) models from different eras, and the hype that goes with them, that is repeated ad nauseam.

Lets look at it:

1. "Dr1 is way way below the CR, ZX decks by a long shot in terms of the sound quality".

Really? Let's see. How far below? "Way way below" Wow, that's quite a way!! Would that be DIN rated W+F, measurable tape skew in play identified by phase wander, frequency range as plotted on an oscillator, even-order THD? In what way?

Here's a beaut. I love descriptive subjectivism as you all know. But this too technical for me!! "A long shot". How long would that shot be? This is surely a comparative term!! Comparing with a ZX-7 perhaps (which is basically a 682ZX with meaner meters). Could he be referring to switch durability maybe when he talks about build quality? Mmmmm, no - you see he just doesn't know. 680 series door opener buttons more often than not, broke in service. Nak Dragon control buttons often fall off. Same with ZX series. The writing on the decks wears off too. How often have you seen CR models with no door for sale because they must be put back carefully or they break. And you can't get spares. Never happens on a DR series. Belt drive vs. gear. Nothing in it. Both are excellent. Steady as rocks and long-lived. If you're below 0.07 WRMS, you can't hear transport W+F on a steady piano/organ note. Never mind 0.035.

But wait, there's more.

2. "DR 1 s not even in the league of the other Naks mentioned"

The "league" right? Wrong. The same Nak sonic signature is clearly evident - more CR-like than ZX. Explicit, detailed, richly textured, solid and confidence inspiring. The best set-up Dolby NR in the business, the same head technology, the same rec-head op amps, and the same prowess to make the best of metal tape.

3. "should not even be compared to(sic) them for keeping the playing field fair".

Indeed. What should it be compared with? It's a cassette deck!! This is worthless hyperbole. It was a gear driven version of the Cassette Deck 1; that was a replacement for the CR-3 but with the wonderful, very desirable manual PB head adjustment. I assure you, that this feature puts the PB accuracy potential of the DR-1 well ahead of the ZX-7/9, 682ZX, and CR-4, to name the obvious ones. And it doesn't go wrong, meaning its well built.

Lets not forget ZXL, ZX and 680 suffer from orange caps disease sooner or later. The 480 'Z' units usually get brown glue disease. A DR doesn't.

4. "The DR series were created by Nakamichi in the 90s just to stay in business in the tape formats."

This guys got an MBA from Wharton, I can see that. No business, including Nak, made machines for the love of it - it was to make money. Sales were slowing, but they were still there. A decade is a long time. DR series inherited the wealth of technology invested in every predecessor ever made by Nakamichi. The tooling was there - very little needed to be created.

5. "DR1 is a good deck compared, perhaps to other manufacturers of the time".

Sure it was. Let's see, what was being made at the time? Pioneer CT-S830S, Pioneer CT-93, Pioneer CT-95/1100L, Aiwa XK-S7000/9000, ReVox B215/S, ReVox C-115, ReVox H11, Akai GX-95 and 95II, Tandberg 3014, Arcam Delta 100, Kenwood 9050S, Yamaha KX-650/690, TEAC V6030S and V-8030S, Sony TC-KA3/6ES, JVC TD-V1010/1050TN – a choice of some rather long pedigrees in fact. If its as good as any of these, that makes it darn good.

6. "most were made in Singapore, Malaysia and not Japan like the older vintage Naks".

Something I have come to learn in the last few years: this matter is somewhere between 'not very relevant' and 'totally irrelevant'. Go to Singapore - it's is (and has been for 15+ years at least) super-modern and very 1st world. Malaysia is catching up - cities like Kuala Lumpur are amazing. Both cassette decks and tapes made outside Japan can be excellent, and usually are. Off-shore assembly is not something manufacturers only did in the latter days. Hitachi and Maxell (same firm) made some of their cassettes in Korea since 1977. Most LNs were made in Seoul. Most far-east TDKs have been assembled in Thailand for years. Many BASFs were made in France; so were Sonys. The best Sony UXs ever made were made in Italy. All the ceramic composite shells for Sony Super Metal Master were made by Gebruder Meissen in Cologne. Issues around off-shore production are wildly exaggerated.

Okay, you'll be glad I'm done. I have a Cassette Deck One which is a DR-1 in sheep's clothing (styling by Issy Miyake) - take it from me - it sounds beautiful.

Before I go, to put into some kind of context the nebulous terms people use to describe excellence, or a lack of it, here are the links for Rane's wonderful Psycho Acoustic Infector, the PI 14.

http://www.rane.com/pi14.html


Have a great Sunday!!

Cheers - Marc

[macster]

Braxus

How about doing some taping with it and see for yourself. Anyway, you own it now, enjoy it. *reelspin*

M~

[Acoustic]

Before I go, to put into some kind of context the nebulous terms people use to describe excellence, or a lack of it, here are the links for Rane's wonderful Psycho Acoustic Infector, the PI 14.

http://www.rane.com/pi14.html


Have a great Sunday!!

Cheers - Marc

IMHO... the PI 14 is only a close second to the fine products made by Bose nowadays. DON'T BE FOOLED!! Though...if Rane could only get that parts issue taken care of a new era in audio would prevail.*hypnot*

[braxus]

This is why I asked the question. I suspect that person may of had a biased view of the DR-1. Funny how no one else has commented on it.

Braxus

How about doing some taping with it and see for yourself. Anyway, you own it now, enjoy it. *reelspin*

M~

I plan to once I get it at the end of the month. I just wanted others thoughts on this deck compared to the big guys since I'll probably never own Naks best decks.

[macster]

I just wanted others thoughts on this deck compared to the big guys since I'll probably never own Naks best decks.

If you want to start riot ask "what is the best Nak deck?" on NakTalks. I think the "best Nak deck" is the one that you have which is working like it's suppose to. There is something magical and soothing about the sound of a correctly set up Nak.

I better go check up on that Tandberg to see if it's still available.

M~

[iamhifi]

Hello Braxus,
I use to own a DR-1, Dr-2 made in Japan. I liked them until I bought my overhaul Naks by ES Labs, the ZX-9, CR-7A, and a Dragon. I can tell you that the outer case and face plate of the DR-1 is lower quality than my other Naks, it looks thin in comparison, the mechanism is good but the electronics have more IC and it looks like like any other modern electronics, that is less electronic parts. The sound is decent warm, not very deatail, bass extenssion is not there, but not terrible. If you want this deck to sound awesome send it to ES Labs, they know what to do to make it sound just as good as the big boys from Nakamichi.
No offense by this.
You said "But I already now have a super deck which beats them all (Tandberg 3014)". Do you mean the DR-1, CR 1, CR 2, I doubt it beats any of my Naks, and definately not my Dragon.
Anyway the DR-1 is a great Nak to start.
Angel

[braxus]

You said "But I already now have a super deck which beats them all (Tandberg 3014)". Do you mean the DR-1, CR 1, CR 2, I doubt it beats any of my Naks, and definately not my Dragon.

What I meant was I have a Tandberg 3014 deck which has been known to beat any Nak made in sound quality. It is known by some as the best cassette deck ever made. No I wasn't refering to the DR-1 as the super deck. Many who have done listenning tests (including Dolph and Tandberg Ray) between the top Naks and the 3014A deck, have announced the Tandberg has the advantage. This includes the Dragon, ZX-9, and CR-7A.

[iamhifi]

Braxus,
The Tanberg is a great deck, again my Decks are overhaul and sound better than any of the same factory decks. I have done comparisson with all kinds of decks and my Dragon always jumps ahead. Also I recomend to you and speak to Jeff from ES Labs he will tell you what he can do with a Dr-1, yo will be surprise that a DR-1 afer overhaul and tune it mighr beat the Tanberg.
Angel

[braxus]

Ok lets make sure we are talking stock decks to modified. Sure a modified deck will beat a stock one, but lets compare apples to apples. I could also have the Tandberg modified and it could really do some damage (if such a person to do so exists).

[niklasthedolphin]

Braxus,
The Tanberg is a great deck, again my Decks are overhaul and sound better than any of the same factory decks. I have done comparisson with all kinds of decks and my Dragon always jumps ahead. Also I recomend to you and speak to Jeff from ES Labs he will tell you what he can do with a Dr-1, yo will be surprise that a DR-1 afer overhaul and tune it mighr beat the Tanberg.
Angel

I doubt that.

I am one of those who had the option of comparing the Tandberg TOTL (3014/3014A/910) with Nakamichi TOTL (Dragon, CR7E, ZX-9, ZXL 1000) as well as Revox TOTL (B710, B215) and my conclusion is unambiguous to the Tandberg decks' advantage.

I think though, that USA is poorly supplied with Tandberg stuff, which is why people tend to claim that those Tandberg TOTL in existence "over there" are mainly faulty ones and that spare part are unobtainable.

What a pity.
If it's true.

For what I know, all the rubber is on the international market.
All the electronics are in reach localy.
Heads can be manufactured as you require when heads are down on worth-keeping machines.
Springs are made in all lengths and shapes.
That leaves the mechanical parts to be donated, just as it is with all other out-of-production machine.
May I ask those disagreeing with me: What mechanical parts wil get worn down on Tandberg machines?

Not the casted ones for sure.
What's left then?

"dolph"

[niklasthedolphin]

Ok lets make sure we are talking stock decks to modified. Sure a modified deck will be a stock one, but lets compare apples to apples. I could also have the Tandberg modified and it could really do some damage.

Don't modify it, please.

Only modifications made to the drive of the azimuth leaves postive impression to me and that has nothing to do with the sound of the deck.

What would you do to make it sound better?

"dolph"

[braxus]

Don't modify it, please...What would you do to make it sound better?

To be honest I have no clue, but Im sure someone out there who does mods to begin with would have an idea. First off my deck could be modified to A status. I've read the caps are replaced for that. But who knows since I haven't read anyone doing this other then that repair outlet a previous poster sourced for me on my Tandberg post.

[macster]

As to which "deck sounds better," IMHO it doesn't matter if you are not using "it" or "them". But, if you like discussing that kind of stuff go ahead, I'll be using my time waiting to see what "you know who" bought today.


not hatin'


M~

[braxus]

I'll be using my time waiting to see what "you know who" bought today.

Well I won't be buying any more decks, so I don't think it will be me. I'll have to start unloading decks if I get any more.

Peace

[macster]

Well I won't be buying any more decks, so I don't think it will be me. I'll have to start unloading decks if I get any more.

Peace


It wasn't you it was "you know who."

lol

I'm going to unload some items also. In my case I'm going to have figure out what items to sell and take the loss on. I'm keeping my Nak decks and the other Naks that I don't use I'm going to save for parts.

M~

[Marc Hugo]

To be honest I have no clue, but Im sure someone out there who does mods to begin with would have an idea. First off my deck could be modified to A status. I've read the caps are replaced for that. But who knows since I haven't read anyone doing this other then that repair outlet a previous poster sourced for me on my Tandberg post.

Well, you know, watching this whole coversation unravel Braxus, I was beginning to wonder the same thing. I'm just trying to peel back the psycho-acoustic skin so-to-speak. There was a guy in Netherlands who used to "supertune" the ZX-9. Tom somebody. I would like to know from Angel what it is specifically that Jeff at ESL actually does to mod them "above spec". I too imagine a replacement of some signal path electrolytics, internal power cables and if there's space, rig up some artful shielding if you think its worth it.

But I'm not convinced as to leaps and bounds improvements. These are usually quite subtle. If you're swopping caps, you have to go for something like Black Gates or Cerafine considering the trouble involved. Then you have peace of mind that you have done your best in that regard. Whether your ears can pick up all that peace going on in your mind is another thing. I just hope so.

Another thing I would like to know, since I can find very little on it: what specific design, electronic, electro-mechanical or metallurgical barriers did Tandberg invent, defeat or improve on that gave it its purported edge or earned it its reputation? (Specifically the 3014 - also what of the 3034?)

Cheers - Marc

[niklasthedolphin]

Tandberg TCD 3034 is not good.

"dolph"

[iamhifi]

Braux and others,
Bad choice of words from me, what I meant to say was that my decks are super tuned and not really modified, maybe some caps replaced and a bit of tweeking. I know that ES Labs is the king when it comes to Naks. When you get an overhauled machine the mechanism is taken apart and worn parts are replaced and fixed. Also some electronic parts are replaced that are known for failing and where an improvement to the circuit can be made they do so. So my Dragon is super tuned and runs like new and sounds like a champ. Others that have done an overhaul to their naks can vouch for what I am telling. And Braux this tread was about a DR1 and all I am telling you is if you want the DR1 to sound as good as your Tanberg then send it to ES Labs. Again the claim that a Tanberg is better the rest depends on taste.
Angel

[niklasthedolphin]

And I/We told you that the test you advertise for has been done many times and on first hand, second hand and third hand the verdict has been written.
Many times.
That's from where the nickname "Dragon-Killer" comes.

"dolph"

[braxus]

Braux and others,
Bad choice of words from me, what I meant to say was that my decks are super tuned and not really modified, maybe some caps replaced and a bit of tweeking. I know that ES Labs is the king when it comes to Naks. When you get an overhauled machine the mechanism is taken apart and worn parts are replaced and fixed. Also some electronic parts are replaced that are known for failing and where an improvement to the circuit can be made they do so. So my Dragon is super tuned and runs like new and sounds like a champ. Others that have done an overhaul to their naks can vouch for what I am telling. And Braux this tread was about a DR1 and all I am telling you is if you want the DR1 to sound as good as your Tanberg then send it to ES Labs. Again the claim that a Tanberg is better the rest depends on taste.
Angel

Ok fair enough. If I really get gung ho I may one day sell the DR-1 and actually get a Dragon. Im keeping that in the back of my mind, but its not a priority. I just wanted a decent enough deck with azimuth adjust on playback, and the DR-1 was cheap enough to consider. I'd be very interested to hear how it sounds against my other decks.

As to which "deck sounds better," IMHO it doesn't matter if you are not using "it" or "them".

I guess I should be a little more respectful of others and their equipment. I'll admit as to not having done this test myself, but I've never heard a Nak deck- so I shouldn't comment. Just passing along the general thread of what others have said. But yes the best deck is the one you own, so you are right.

[macster]

Bro.

I just didn't want to see you get caught up in a pointless discussion. We should be having fun and making tapes. So it's 29 more days to go, before you get the NAk huh? Right now I'm in the middle of testing cartridges. Man this sucks.

M~

[braxus]

Well not really 29 days, but around the end of the month. So less then 29, more like 19 or so. But they still have to deliver it, so it may be way longer then that since the next time he's up is Xmas.

[iamhifi]

Hello Braux,
Since the DR1 will be your first Nak, I will describe the sound for you from the models I have used.
The ZX-9 is a very warm sounding deck, great bass, killer mids and soft highs. Many preffer the sound of the ZX-9. Funny I have 2 and one sounds close to the Dragon.
The CR-7A sounds like a Cd Player just a little thin but not bad, warm but not to much, great bass extension, nice mids and great highs.
The Dragon sits in between the ZX-9 and CR-7, the best bass extension I heard on a deck, the mids are warm perfect not overly done and not thin, and the highs are silky and detail, and this deck produces a huge sound stage and very deep, dimentional.
The DR1, sounds kind of the CR-7A but not the same, the bass is not as deep but similar, the mid is warm, and the highs are similar to the ZX-9 but not as detail. Again when I had this deck Jeff form ES Labs told that this deck well calibrated can sound extremely good.
I hope this help with your Nak Quest,
Angel

[Marc Hugo]

Very nice descriptions, Angel.

Marc

[harryf200]

What I meant was I have a Tandberg 3014 deck which has been known to beat any Nak made in sound quality. It is known by some as the best cassette deck ever made. No I wasn't refering to the DR-1 as the super deck. Many who have done listenning tests (including Dolph and Tandberg Ray) between the top Naks and the 3014A deck, have announced the Tandberg has the advantage. This includes the Dragon, ZX-9, and CR-7A.

A friend of mine (an Emmy winner who used to run a recording and tape duplicating business) used to say he felt the Tandberg 3014 was his favoured deck for recording but not for playback; that position was filled by his Nakamichi Dragon. So, he dubbed with the Tandberg and replayed the recording with the Nak Dragon.

But what is the best sound ... it's such a subjective thing. We all have different ears. (Indeed I have more than one, depending on the setting of my hearing aid!) And "best" is difficult to define anyway. My Sony tuner has amazed me with what seems to be to be very life-like renditions of jazz, especially with "in-the-room" sounds of the percussion. But when it lets loose with the spoken voice .... ugh! The sibilance cuts my ear drums! However, the FM4 is easy on the ear with speech, but it's quite a bore with jazz, always sounding like the music is in the next room, not with me in the present one. So, which is best? Ditto the cassette decks. I love the sound of the ZX9 much better than the Pioneer; but the Pioneer beats the Nak hands down with its w/f figures, which - in this respect - makes it the better machine for recording the delicate long notes of a piano. It does that well but ... the overall tonal qualities of the piano is better captured (or at least, replayed) on the ZX9. So, which is the better? (In this instance, I sometimes think the Pioneer is - the brain can compensate and make the tonal qualities of music become acceptable when they may otherwise not me so, but it can't disguise the difference between a rock-steady sustained piano note and one that may be even marginally less than perfect.)

[niklasthedolphin]

A friend of mine (an Emmy winner who used to run a recording and tape duplicating business) used to say he felt the Tandberg 3014 was his favoured deck for recording but not for playback; that position was filled by his Nakamichi Dragon. So, he dubbed with the Tandberg and replayed the recording with the Nak Dragon.

But what is the best sound ... it's such a subjective thing. We all have different ears. (Indeed I have more than one, depending on the setting of my hearing aid!) And "best" is difficult to define anyway. My Sony tuner has amazed me with what seems to be to be very life-like renditions of jazz, especially with "in-the-room" sounds of the percussion. But when it lets loose with the spoken voice .... ugh! The sibilance cuts my ear drums! However, the FM4 is easy on the ear with speech, but it's quite a bore with jazz, always sounding like the music is in the next room, not with me in the present one. So, which is best? Ditto the cassette decks. I love the sound of the ZX9 much better than the Pioneer; but the Pioneer beats the Nak hands down with its w/f figures, which - in this respect - makes it the better machine for recording the delicate long notes of a piano. It does that well but ... the overall tonal qualities of the piano is better captured (or at least, replayed) on the ZX9. So, which is the better? (In this instance, I sometimes think the Pioneer is - the brain can compensate and make the tonal qualities of music become acceptable when they may otherwise not me so, but it can't disguise the difference between a rock-steady sustained piano note and one that may be even marginally less than perfect.)

Everything within reproducing music is based on compromises.
When you tweak one parameter, no matter if you're the manufacturer or the end-user of the product, another paramter suffers.

Any experience of listening to music is subjective. It's an experience, isn't it?
All experiences include feelings and feeling include your subconsciousness and your subconsciousness includes all experiences from whatever life you already had, including traumatized events.

Ever seen a person run screaming away from headbanging death metal music played on a ghettoblaster or a Linn setup?

The thing is that the Analog Reference, meaning the sound comming out over the stage or the sound comming out in the rooms in the studio, is what we try to get close to when matching our home system to reproduce music.

How do people know how that sounds like?

Well I do because I have been doing master recordings as tape operator and sound engineer for decades, starting off as a radio broadcasting studio tech.

These master tapes is the closest I get to the Analog Reference.

With a tool like that it makes it easy for me to compare machines even though I acknowledge my subjective approach.

Let's say it "kind of" makes my subjective experience closer to being objective.

I think a lot of people cherish their cassette decks withou any tools to use for comparison.

I know, from some of the many comparisons I made, that some of the Nakamichi decks adds up a little colour on the music................in a pleasant way.
I don't blame people for appreciating this but it is not with the Analog Reference in mind that they evaluate the experience of the music reproduction on the cassette deck in question.

So, on the buttom line, it's more a question about what people are aiming at, what they want to achieve.
And I believe very few are going for this Analog Reference, 'cause they don't have any tools for doing that.

"dolph"

[el34guy]

I ended up with a Nakamichi 682ZX. It has automatic azimuth adjustment and the older transport style. It also has the warmer sound of the older electronics configuration. Its really a great deck. I watched craigslist until I found one in decent shape then had it reworked by Willy Herman in California. The guy is amazing, does great work, and actually cares about customer service and satisfaction. Id recommend him strongly for any service you might need. I also have a BX-300 Nakamichi that is the newer style transport with the newer electronics configuration. I really like that deck too, its the best Nakamichi deck out there for the money in my opinion. Its a great time to buy about anything at the moment with prices being very attractive right now.

Mark

[iamhifi]

[But I already now have a super deck which beats them all (Tandberg 3014)[/QUOTE]

I like how you always claim that the 3014 beats them all. Untill you don't put the 3014 next ro my Dragon don't delare it a winner.
Enjoy the Dr-1 is a fine deck well tweick.
Angel

[braxus]

I like how you always claim that the 3014 beats them all. Until you don't put the 3014 next to my Dragon don't delare it a winner.
Angel

Angel,

First off I did not say this recently and both of us have already addressed this comment earlier in the thread. There is no need to repeat it again. But since we are anyway, see below:


Secondly Dolph's and others reply to your comment which is also above was:

And I/We told you that the test you advertise for has been done many times and on first hand, second hand and third hand the verdict has been written.
Many times.
That's from where the nickname "Dragon-Killer" comes.

"dolph"

...Tandberg machines do good.
So good that they even today are deservedly regarded as having made the "best ever" cassette decks.
Well, that's not the result of these two techniques alone but the sum of quality thrown into the decks overall, but Dyneq and Actilinear helped it on the way.

"dolph"

Hello All:

I have the Luxman K-03, 2 K-05's and the Alpine AL-85 (their version of the K-04) and Al-90 (their version of the K-05) They really are wonderful well constructed decks and I would rate them as close to my Nak CR-7A and Dragon although not quite as nice as my Tandberg 3014A...
Kevin


Thirdly HarryF that posted above commented saying that the Tandberg 3014 was preferred for recording, while the Dragon for playback. And I bet that was because they liked the warmer sound of the Dragon, not the neutral sound of the Tandberg.

But to put your mind at ease, I am currently seeking out a Dragon deck from a dealer and will try to get one when I can. At that time I will sell my DR-1. My goal now is only to buy the top decks out there of any brand. So the Dr-1 will go away.

[macster]

FYI

Just passing on some info here. A deck's sound can be tuned by a myriad of things, for example, interconnects, bias setting (factory/service/tweak/etc). But for right now, you would be amazed as to how much you can tweak/tune your record playback settings with interconnects. Of course you can't make a CR1A sound like a CR7A, but you can really make a difference in the "recording and playback" of a deck by using different interconnect cables.

Also on my B-215 I had the IEC mod done by JMT and I will be experimenting with different power cables on it. I'm curious to see what kind of effect the different power cables will have.

M~

[niklasthedolphin]

FYI

Just passing on some info here. A deck's sound can be tuned by a myriad of things, for example, interconnects, bias setting (factory/service/tweak/etc). But for right now, you would be amazed as to how much you can tweak/tune your record playback settings with interconnects. Of course you can't make a CR1A sound like a CR7A, but you can really make a difference in the "recording and playback" of a deck by using different interconnect cables.

Also on my B-215 I had the IEC mod done by JMT and I will be experimenting with different power cables on it. I'm curious to see what kind of effect the different power cables will have.

M~

I believe this is a different discussion.
Cables never do the signal any good, though.
It's the question of how much and in what way cables damage the signal.

As for me, I found a way around this issue with multicabling.
I don't need to spend those $ 50.000,- on each cable although I got to the point where I know the cable influence is unsignificant with a proportion of less than 1:1000 compared to any randomly picked other single unit in the set-up.

Cables to transducers it may be 1:100.000.

"dolph"

[macster]

I believe this is a different discussion.


"dolph"

Actually no more OT than the discussion of the sound quality of Tandberg's vs Naks in here. The thread is entitled "Naks with Azimuth Adjust." So the whole thread has gotten "out of scope."

Anyway, I have a number of Nak decks with azimuth adjust and I like em!

night!

M~

[niklasthedolphin]

Actually no more OT than the discussion of the sound quality of Tandberg's vs Naks in here. The thread is entitled "Naks with Azimuth Adjust." So the whole thread has gotten "out of scope."

Anyway, I have a number of Nak decks with azimuth adjust and I like em!

night!

M~

I guess you're right about that OT thing.
I apologize.

I also used to have Nakamichi with and without Azimuth.

Now I have the TCD 910 and that series, deriving from the consumer deck 3014/3014A, has manual button Azimuth adjustment of Rec head and manual on the fly screwdriver Azimuth adjustment of PB head.

Manual adjustments simply gives better resluts when done right.

"dolph"

[harryf200]

"What is a typical price of the DR-1 these days. If its way up there, then the CR-7A would be a better choice. Shame the ZX-9 doesn't have it."

Actually, Jeff Galin (ESL) has some ZX-9, which have been fully renovated (they are "as new") which he has converted to have adjustable azimuth for replay. However ... one of these will set you back about $1k. (These and the standard renovated ZX-9s that he has are all ex-Nakamichi USA recording studio machines.)

But I have a thought for you ... do you want the adjustable azi' to deal just with tapes made on other machines? If your need is also for lifting the sound of dull/faded tape, you may wish to consider one of the (better) Pioneer decks which has a FLEX circuit. This circuit operates like a continuously adjusting equalizer, pushing the music back into a "normal" sound. It is extremely effective with the dull tapes and can even give a reasonable account when replaying tapes made on a different machine where the azi' was out of alignment. Obviously, it's not going to be as precise as using adjustable azi' controls but the outcome won't be glaringly different. I use a CTS830S machine. I think you can pick one up on ebay for less that £150. IMO it's a good recorder, especially when using Dolby S, and replay is more than acceptable. Maybe not quite up to my Arcam Delta 100 or my Nak ZX9 but it isn't way off. Indeed, it actually betters both of the others for w/f, which I suppose makes it a good machine for recording piano.

[harryf200]

dolph

I largely agree. I think you are also right that someof the Naks are not necessarily replaying to the Analog Reference. I have to admit, I think my ZX9 may be a tad warm (not that I know what a stock one sounds like - mine was modified by Tom van den Hoff before I bought it), but I like it anyway! In fact ditched a Nakamichi CR7 in favour of the ZX9 because I found the former a too harsh for my ear - indeed, I actually felt the ZX9 was slightly the more "realistic" of the two, although I know others who feel the realism is with the CR7, not the ZX9! But then, what we hear coming out across a stage is distorted by the acoustics of the stage and hall into which it the music resounds, and it is also coloured by the equipment being used to amplify the instruments, as it is also beggared by the live sound mixer! So, as you will know too well, I guess - the sound our ears capture from a stage performance rarely matches that in the recording studio. So, which of them are we trying to reproduce in our homes? Hmmm ... maybe that's going too far!

That said, I suppose anyone with experience of hearing certain instruments live - perhaps because they are musicians or experienced listeners of live music - may have certain expectations vis a vis Analog Reference, hoping what they hear will be the same as they "know", of how they usually experience the sound of certain instruments. For me, the main ones are the sound of a piano (played in a small room!), a drum kit (I just love it when I can hear when a drummer changes sticks, from wooden tips to nylon) and blues-harp harmonicas. (My Mum was a pianist and I used to play both the drums and I was a mean blues harmonica player! So, I think I know what they should sound like.)

But what has opened my brain in recent times is understanding that the sounds I "know" from way-back-when are not exactly as I hear them now because I've got older and my ear isn't as good as it used to be for picking up certain frequencies. This issue was illuminated for me by having acquired a digital hearing aid, which is programmed to amplify the frequencies where my deafness is at its worst. When I switch to "music" mode ... yikes! I now hear things that I'd forgotten existed in some records and recordings! But here is the rub ... what I have also found is that my hearing is now more acute, such that I can now hear differences in recorded music playback that don't fit the Analog Reference, differences that I could not hear BC Hearing aid!

I suppose what I'm getting at is that the Analog Reference is, IMO, also subjective since it relies upon our hearing being tip-top and remaining consistently that way, such that we may always be able to hear the differences between what comes over the stage or our of the recording studio. But it doesn't because we get older and, if we've been musicians, as like as not our hearing will have been damaged anyway by the loud volumes of the performances.

[niklasthedolphin]

But then, what we hear coming out across a stage is distorted by the acoustics of the stage and hall into which it the music resounds, and it is also coloured by the equipment being used to amplify the instruments, as it is also beggared by the live sound mixer! So, as you will know too well, I guess - the sound our ears capture from a stage performance rarely matches that in the recording studio. So, which of them are we trying to reproduce in our homes? Hmmm ... maybe that's going too far!



Isn't that an easy one?

Do you listen to a live recording or a studio recording?
There you go!

I've been at a lot of live events.
Many people can say the same.
But I've also been at a lot of studio event, which not a lot of people have.

If you want to set-up gear to get as close to the Analog Reference as possible, you do it from acoustic music or, if that is not an option, purely microphone covered instruments instead of electrified instruments.

The thing is that you will never know what "sound" the electrified instrument is supposed to have, extremely more so when pedals/effects are use, but a microphone covered instrument is usualy intented to have as natural a sound as possible.

Sorry to hear about your damaged hearing.
What a good thing aids like the one you mention is developed.
I wouldn't trust a digitizing hearing aid device in the matter of comparing a set-up to the Analog Reference, though.

Keep the music in focus and enjoy it, no matter what source and potentialy quality of sound possible.

"dolph"

[draka1032]

The Cassette Deck One has manual playback azimuth control via a knob on the front panel. The CR-7A/E is manual and the Dragon automatic.

[harryf200]

Isn't that an easy one?

Do you listen to a live recording or a studio recording?
There you go!

I've been at a lot of live events.
Many people can say the same.
But I've also been at a lot of studio event, which not a lot of people have.

If you want to set-up gear to get as close to the Analog Reference as possible, you do it from acoustic music or, if that is not an option, purely microphone covered instruments instead of electrified instruments.

The thing is that you will never know what "sound" the electrified instrument is supposed to have, extremely more so when pedals/effects are use, but a microphone covered instrument is usualy intented to have as natural a sound as possible.

Sorry to hear about your damaged hearing.
What a good thing aids like the one you mention is developed.
I wouldn't trust a digitizing hearing aid device in the matter of comparing a set-up to the Analog Reference, though.

Keep the music in focus and enjoy it, no matter what source and potentialy quality of sound possible.

"dolph"

Hi dolph
I think we are one on this! My preference is for acoustic, non-amplified events. I used to play an accoustic/folk circuit in the UK. (Various instruments - guitars, European autoharp, blues and chronomatic harmonicas, percussion, melodian and sing.) So, I isten out mostly for "natural" sounds, especially voice, as I have heard live and without amplification. I particularly cock the ear when I listen to recordings of people I have heard live, usually when they've been playing/singing just a few feet away from me in a club/pub/bar somewhere. (I am so often disappointed!) Judging "natural" for a guitar is difficult I feel, because those boxes all have different tones. So, what I do use as a reference is the sound from the plucking of a string and the hands on the frets and coils of the strings. To this end, I have been pleased and surprised with the results I've been getting from the old Eico ST70 - at least, I have been once the caps had reformed (after being laid up for a year or so) but then we are at the mercy of the choice of microphones, I suppose! (The Eico is just about as old as me! I wonder what the guys who built it would think fo their amps when they are used to play more modern, more exacting equipment than was available at the time the amps were made. Very surprised at how much potential was hidden before, I'd guess! Which reminds me ... I must dig out from my Mum's house an old mono tube R2R. I don't suppose for a moment that it will work!)

[harryf200]

Angel,



Thirdly HarryF that posted above commented saying that the Tandberg 3014 was preferred for recording, while the Dragon for playback. And I bet that was because they liked the warmer sound of the Dragon, not the neutral sound of the Tandberg.



Almost! My friend Carlos "aka The Tape Man" said his measurements showed the Tandberg recorded more accurately (across audible frequencies I presume) but that the Dragon replayed more accurately because of its auto azi adjustments. Of course, I can't comment further because I have not had the pleasure of owning a Dragon or a Tandberg.

[Scorpion8]

Almost! My friend Carlos "aka The Tape Man" said his measurements showed the Tandberg recorded more accurately (across audible frequencies I presume) but that the Dragon replayed more accurately because of its auto azi adjustments. Of course, I can't comment further because I have not had the pleasure of owning a Dragon or a Tandberg.

I have an interesting comment about that, and it patterns itself alongside the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which says to measure a thing is to affect that thing. How can you say the Tandberg recorded more accurately, unless you compare the recorded signal to the original? And then say the Dragon played back more accurately, when the definition of accurate playback would be to play back a recorded signal exactly as the input signal? If the deck plays back a signal different than it records, then it can't be accurate even if you like the sound of the playback signal better.

Perhaps you could discuss.

[stuwee]

Everyones outer ear or pinnea has a different shape, hence part of the hearing/percieving sounds differently in many enviornments. Play with your pinnea's while playing your favorite tune on your best system, notice the change?

Stop playing with yourself and just listen *grin*

[harryf200]

I have an interesting comment about that, and it patterns itself alongside the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which says to measure a thing is to affect that thing. How can you say the Tandberg recorded more accurately, unless you compare the recorded signal to the original? And then say the Dragon played back more accurately, when the definition of accurate playback would be to play back a recorded signal exactly as the input signal? If the deck plays back a signal different than it records, then it can't be accurate even if you like the sound of the playback signal better.

Perhaps you could discuss.

Well, for a start, it's not me who is saying the Tandberg is more accurate - I'm not the guy with the 'scope or even the knowledge to now how to use one! ;o) In respect of a cassette recording, think Carlos would regard a flat response but not outputting the same, while the Dragon would be the opposite. (Am I talking out of my ar@e here - I'm non-technical?! Help me out, here Marc - I know you're on this board somewhere!) With regard to replay ... well, I don't know! I suppose it would probably be true that the Dragon would be more accurate to the original tape recording where a tape has been recorded on a different machine if it's azimuth is slightly off (because of it's automatic azi' adjustment), when the tape would be fine for replay on the machine that made it but not on another unless it had the same azi'. I presume Carlos would have had a way to measure this, but I don't know - I'm no expert in electronics, and I stopped physics lessones when I was 16 years old! So, you may be asking the wrong person for a discussion! (Besides, I really ought not be speaking for Carlos - I have no idea what he would reply in such circumstances.) However ....

Yes, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, is an interesting concept. I have heard of tthe principle, altho' I'd not been given the name for it until now! (It reminds me of one that is debated long into the hours by philosophers of writing studies, that is where some argue the intention of the author irrelevant because it is changed during the writing AND because it is changed as soon as it is written, that only what is relevant is how it is interpreted by the reader ... So, the meaning of a text is altered by being read (i'e' "measured"! The comparison is a a bit thin but not so far removed, I think.) I can see how the HUP works when you are trying to measure human behaviour or opinions, customer/market research being my speciality. And there is it quite true; one of the best examples of this being how results of voting intentions taken anonymously prior to people going into the booths to vote can be different from the actual election results, where the difference cannot be explained by sample error. You may think this is because people may be reticent in admitting their voting intentions, but the same kind of results have been found with regard to buying intentions: Jo Public often doesn't buy what s/he say they are going to buy. There are other examples. But measurements of something that is not affected by "thinking"? Hmmmm. I don't know. Let me think ....

I suppose Chaos Theory would have it so, because the very actions involved with making a measurement will, if I understand the Theory correctly, cause a reaction somewhere, which will cause subsequent domino reactions bouncing around the Earth all over the show! (Hey, may be the current economic crisis was caused by a tech in Taiwan dropping a Revox on the floor!)

Chaos Theory aside, can you tell me if the mains electric supply voltage is altered when you measure it? If it is supposed to be 240v +/- 2v from the nearest substation, would the measuring of it alter the voltage? Indeed, could we prove it did? Now there's a thought! (A Eureka moment!?!) I suppose we could prove it ... by observing if the results of one test were changed if a second test was run concurrent with the first but staggered to start after the first. If testing made a difference then the results measured by the first ought to change when the staggered second test came on line. Could we apply such a test in our area of interest?

But then, there is that other phenomenon to consider. (This probably has a name, too, but I don't have a clue as to what it is.) This is where test results will sometimes reflect, at least in part, those that the tester anticipates they would, which is why (I understand) why clinical trials are generally done using a double-blind method. I suppose to get even close to doing this we would have to have the first tester not know that a second test was going to happen during the period of the first tester's measuring, while the second tester would not know of the first, and the first line of analysis would be done by someone who didn't know which of the two test measurements kicked in after the other, or even why the Hell we were doing this in the first place!

;o)

[harryf200]

Everyones outer ear or pinnea has a different shape, hence part of the hearing/percieving sounds differently in many enviornments. Play with your pinnea's while playing your favorite tune on your best system, notice the change?

Stop playing with yourself and just listen *grin*

Interesting. I had always understood playing with oneself altered the ability to perceive by sight, not sound ...

[niklasthedolphin]

I believe that manual allignments and manual azimuth adjustment is better when thoroughly done manual instead of automatic.

And Tandberg TCD 3014/3014A/910 has option of adjustment of both record head and playback head.

So the conclusion of the playback being better, or more accurate, due to the auto azi is not really my cup of tea.
:-)

"dolph"

[harryf200]

I believe that manual allignments and manual azimuth adjustment is better when thoroughly done manual instead of automatic.

And Tandberg TCD 3014/3014A/910 has option of adjustment of both record head and playback head.

So the conclusion of the playback being better, or more accurate, due to the auto azi is not really my cup of tea.
:-)

"dolph"
You may be right - not having had the pleasure of experimenting with a Tandberg or Dragon I don't have a view, but I suppose it might depend on the quality of the cassette shell for maintaining a consistent position for a fixed azi. I have found (and I am not alone) the latter TDK SA's (made in Europe) are such that I have to re-set the azimuth for each side of one cassette when I am preparing to record with the ZX-9. (I don't have that problem with any other brands, or even TDKs made in Japan for that matter.) I imagine (I'm probably wrong!) that the auto azi' might be beneficial in these circumstances, that is if the azi shifts along the way, although I'd think that unlikely. I imagine the shells are such that they tilt the spools consistently thereby giving a consistent fixed azi, albeit different between the A and B sides. Has anyone here found this problem with the SA's? You'd probably not notice it unless you swap recorded cassettes.

[macster]

I have found (and I am not alone) the latter TDK SA's (made in Europe) are such that I have to re-set the azimuth for each side of one cassette when I am preparing to record with the ZX-9. (I don't have that problem with any other brands, or even TDKs made in Japan for that matter.) I imagine (I'm probably wrong!) that the auto azi' might be beneficial in these circumstances, that is if the azi shifts along the way, although I'd think that unlikely. I imagine the shells are such that they tilt the spools consistently thereby giving a consistent fixed azi, albeit different between the A and B sides. Has anyone here found this problem with the SA's? You'd probably not notice it unless you swap recorded cassettes.

When I record I use autocal on each side of the cassette. There is really no reason not to. The latest TDK's that I have, I believe are made in Mexico. But even so, no matter what I use autocal when I record. The one problem that I had with the newer TDK's was drop outs. I've worked through that and now things are great.

But if the azimuth sifts along the way, then there is really nothing you can do with the the ZX9. It would have to have the ability to auto correct the azimuth shifts as they occured.

M~

[braxus]

And Tandberg TCD 3014/3014A/910 has option of adjustment of both record head and playback head.

Dolph,

The 3014/ 3014A as far as I know only have azimuth adjustment for the record head, not also the playback head. I think its only on your 910 (or is it 911) that have playback adjustment. Correct me if Im wrong, but I don't think these decks other then the 911 can do playback azimuth adjustment.

[niklasthedolphin]

Dolph,

The 3014/ 3014A as far as I know only have azimuth adjustment for the record head, not also the playback head. I think its only on your 910 (or is it 911) that have playback adjustment. Correct me if Im wrong, but I don't think these decks other then the 911 can do playback azimuth adjustment.

The 911 has PB azimuth pulled out on the facia into a knob like the Record Head Azimuth Adjustment is on the 3014/3014A/910.

But with a screwdriver you have PB azimuth adjustment under the lower head bridge cover on the 3014/3014A/910.
I'm not sure about the 3004 but I wouldn't be surprised.


Well, I earlier stated my opinion on the superiority of manual adjustment of Rec level, Bias and Eq.

I believe that Equalization and Record Level, at the best, should be manual adjustable for each speed, for each track and seperate for record and playback.
Bias should, at the best, be manual adjustable for each track and for each speed.

There are Cassette Decks out there with more than one speed!

The manual adjustment gives full control and with time on you hands and the skills to do it, the result will be better than when automatic adjusted.

When the user is not into the highest quality of sound on his recording it might be better with automatic for the convenience.
But I am refering to the highest level of sound quality here.


When it comes to manual versus automatic azimuth adjustment...........
If a tape has to have azimuth allignment more than once pr. side, the tape is considered defect IMHO.

I always adjust the azimuth beyond the point af half way through the tape length on the tape side I am adjusting.
Best point is ~3/4 through the tape.
I always adjust azimuth for each side of a tape.
I usualy do not adjust azimuth on the PB head.
It's not needed to adjust the Azimuth on PB head if the tape is played back on the same machine as it was recorded.

I tend to use my best machine for recording the best sources and playing back the best tapes redorded on the same machine.

If I have an old tape in less quality, I will take my Revox, my other Tandberg or other Cassette decks in use for that purpose.
They are plugged in as well through my dbx200x.

But then again..............what's the use of very high quality PB machine for a tape that is just mediocre in quality.

I still believe, with azimuth, that the result of the adjustment will be better when done manual if you have the time and the skills.........as long as the tape itself is not defect.

"dolph"

[braxus]

Well I decided to put my DR-1 up for sale to help pay some funds at this time of year. I plan on getting a Dragon eventually anyway. Must say the DR-1 is not a bad little deck the short time I did test its use. The deck is sold to Mr. Lin as we speak.

See video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9o-frIJgNM

[Dimitar Georgiev]

Hello Braux,
Since the DR1 will be your first Nak, I will describe the sound for you from the models I have used.
The ZX-9 is a very warm sounding deck, great bass, killer mids and soft highs. Many preffer the sound of the ZX-9. Funny I have 2 and one sounds close to the Dragon.
The CR-7A sounds like a Cd Player just a little thin but not bad, warm but not to much, great bass extension, nice mids and great highs.
The Dragon sits in between the ZX-9 and CR-7, the best bass extension I heard on a deck, the mids are warm perfect not overly done and not thin, and the highs are silky and detail, and this deck produces a huge sound stage and very deep, dimentional.
The DR1, sounds kind of the CR-7A but not the same, the bass is not as deep but similar, the mid is warm, and the highs are similar to the ZX-9 but not as detail. Again when I had this deck Jeff form ES Labs told that this deck well calibrated can sound extremely good.
I hope this help with your Nak Quest,
Angel

Guys, how about Cassette Deck 1 - does somebody has this machine and where this deck fits sonically in this description ?

Thanks,

Dimitar