What is the most underrated Nakamichi?

[JaeTee]

We all know that the Dragon, ZX-9, CR-7A and the 1000ZXL are pretty much the most sought after Nakamichi decks, and for good reason. Even the BX-300 has a sizeable cult-like following for its sonic prowess...

But, after reading some of the responses to the "if you could only have any one Nak, which would it be?" thread, it got me thinking about how I felt regarding my three Naks, and which hidden gems there are out there among the many decks they made over the years.

So.... which Nak do you think might be the most underrated or under-appreciated? And why?

Personally, I have only used a small handful of Nak decks. My current setup includes RX-303, RX-505 & a 582. In the past, I've used a BX-125 and an MR-1.

Of these, the 582 has the most adjustability, which allows me to make really good recordings on just about any cassette I put into it. At one time the 582 was widely considered a reference level cassette deck, and I can see why. This might be a good candidate for my nominiation. However, after playing with my RX-505 for the last nine months and comparing tapes made in both of those decks, I feel that the RX-505 gets my nomination.

It measures up very well to the 582 for the tapes that I like to use most, but as a bonus it offers a host of editing and playback features to make life easier and then finally there is the unique and ultra-cool UDAR feature. I absolutely love auto reverse for playback and beatmixed DJ type recordings.

MSRP back in the day was $1500 and they can be had now for anywhere from $200 to $400 in good working condition. For that, you get three-heads, auto reverse that doesn't cause azimuth problems and very close to top-shelf Nakamichi performance. I'm really surprized this is not a more talked about deck.

Here's the feature list and a pic: Nak RX-505 (http://www.vintagecassette.com/Nakamichi/RX-505)

[speakerman1]

I like the LX series also. Not much gets said about them.
Larry

[Mignun67]

Easy: 480, 480Z, 580M, and LX-3. Why? Because they often get overlooked or undervalued due to only having 2 instead of 3 heads. However, they all share something far more important, the assymetrical closed loop dual capstan transport and pressure pad lifter. This puts their performance within an ace of their 3 head brothers, and puts them considerably ahead of the later 2 headers that arrived with the introduction of the BX-1 and BX-2 and made do with a cheaper single capstan transport without the pressure pad lifter.

[bluegreengold]

482Z. The 3 head deck an a 2 head series.

[westgate]

yes, the lx-3 is a great deck. i bought one about 6 yrs ago, loved it. but then i got my ~30 yr old 600 back from the rehabbers, and couldn't see the point in having 2 naks (!). so i sold it.

'course, that was afore i discovered TH where one of the cardinal rules is, 'no such thing as too many naks!'*yip*

[83glt]

I would echo those who mention the LX series. The LX-3/5 don't get much love around here, largely because of their looks. I personally think they look great, particularly in person, and more importantly, their performance and features are excellent. However much this series is overlooked, I like the categorization of the LX series as being among the "better" Naks, as opposed to the "best" Naks being discussed over in the other thread, and the "good" Naks like the BX series. I would put the LX series at or very near the top of the mid-tier Naks.

[Fast Forward]

The 600 series,, It had that Just got to own one looks and performance to match the looks

[macster]

CR5A, it's a beast in sheep's clothing.

M~

[Elite-ist]

I only own one Nakamichi cassette deck: an RX-505. I haven't had the opportunity to sample any other fine Nakamichi decks, although I do have a little experience with a few Pioneer decks and could offer more observations about that line.

Yesterday, my friend Robert calls me to let me know he's bought a new deck. So. rather than have him tell me, I began asking questions to narrow the field:

Question #1: Is it made in Japan?
Question #2: Is it a mid-grade deck?

After two "Yes" responses from him, he just couldn't contain himself, " It's an RX-202 I bought for $25. Needs an idler tire, though. Would you mind picking it up after it's been repaired?"

Now, Robert has owned more than a few high-end decks in the past, so I'll see how it measures up. The fact he's stoked about it tells me he'll be enjoying it immensely; even though it is a 2-header. And I haven't anything but praise for the under-rated RX series, especially the RX-505.

Nando.

[Nakdoc]

I agree with Mignun67. The lowly 480 runs circles around 97% of the cassette decks ever made, yet it gets little respect.

I would also nominate the 500. This top loading deck preceeded the 600 by about a year IIRC. The 500 was tremendously stylish. it had white or optional wood grain sides (a la B&O)
Sound quality was top notch for those days, with solid response to 18kHz with Chrome tape. And slide controls! Remember slide controls were premium parts in those days.

[iamhifi]

Many old audio Magazines used the 582 as the reference to compare others.
Angel

[Acoustic]

CR5A, it's a beast in sheep's clothing.

M~

My vote also. Not heard many of the others mentioned but the CR-5's I have are way ahead of anything else I've got or heard in a cassette deck vs the source.

[JaeTee]

It's an RX-202 I bought for $25. Needs an idler tire, though. Would you mind picking it up after it's been repaired?"

Now, Robert has owned more than a few high-end decks in the past, so I'll see how it measures up. The fact he's stoked about it tells me he'll be enjoying it immensely; even though it is a 2-header. And I haven't anything but praise for the under-rated RX series, especially the RX-505.

Nando.

Yea, the tape flip cool factor is just a universal joy! Everyone I've shown my RX decks to think its the absolute coolest.

Back when I announced the arrival of my 505 I was told I'd proably pick up an RX-202 to complete the "RX Trifecta." I wasn't really intending to do that, but will admit it's been a consideration... I eagerly await your comparison of the RX-202 to the RX-505.

[speakerman1]

I don't have a RX-505; but I like my little 2 head RX-202. I can't complain about it for one minute. I do enjoy it immensely. I think I paid 35.00 for it. They said it was dead. I got it here and it worked just fine. Hasn't missed a beat since I got it.
Larry

[tcp100]

I know it might be considered "BPC" since it's a later deck, but I never hear anything about the "Cassette Deck 1".

From what I understand, it's gear driven (no belts to wear), 3-head manual azimuth. Looks really interesting to me - but I never hear anyone talk about it.

Has anyone ever used one?

[JaeTee]

When I hear of $25 or $35 RX-202's being found, all I can say is good for you! I was told the back in the day that the RX-202 is very much like a BX-125/150 but with UDAR. Using the BX-125 as somewhat of a benchmark, I still listen to tapes that were made on a BX-125 20+ years ago and they sound like they were recorded just yesterday. In contrast, I also still have tapes I made on a Pioneer CT-7R which I bought in 1983 (predecessor to my BX-125) and they sound quite bright and lacking in bass. The Nak lasted about 15 years while that Pioneer started developing issues after about 4 years. And, contrary to conventional wisdom-rumor that Nak tapes only sound really good on Nak decks, my experience has been that my Nak-recorded tapes have sounded great in pretty much all the tape decks I've played them on.

Now, from what I've read here, I'm thinking I'd like to maybe try a CR-5 someday. Can anyone tell me the difference between the CR-5 and the CR-5A? (or the CR-7 vs. CR-7A?)

And I'm wondering what it would cost to have some of the proven sonic upgrades performed on my 582? Would it even be worth it? Don't get me wrong, it does pretty well as it is now, but with the way my L & R channels are now it can be very challenging to nail perfect balance. I would surely use it more if the VU's didn't need obvious calibration. And if I have that done, I figure I might as well have the most done to it to make it as close to perfect as it can be. Or, like I mentioned in another thread, simply sell it and one of my RX's and put those funds towards a Dragon!

I know the smartest thing to do would be to just keep things as they are and enjoy what I have... But where's the fun in that? I don't know about you guys, but more often than not I always seem to develop new curiosities to satisfy after delving into this site for a bit and that always seems to involve more purchases. Then again, what do expect when you visit the ultimate tape enthusiast's enabler forum in all of the world??? *reelspin**reelspin**Hi5*

[Naknut]

My vote is for the LX-5 a great no nonsense three head deck. Back in 1983 I think, it was the deck I lusted after the most. After reading a review by Craig Stark in Stereo Review I just had to have one. Loved the styling and the straight ahead features. At the time $800 for a cassette deck was well beyond my means so I had to wait until 1999 to finally get one. It doesn't have calibration but you can adjust the bias by ear and will make a very nice recording when you put the right tape in. I find a TDK SA to do very well.

[Mignun67]

I know it might be considered "BPC" since it's a later deck, but I never hear anything about the "Cassette Deck 1".

From what I understand, it's gear driven (no belts to wear), 3-head manual azimuth. Looks really interesting to me - but I never hear anyone talk about it.

Has anyone ever used one?

Yup, I demoed one against a Cassette Deck 1.5. at my Nak dealer back in the day. I went for the latter, as I actually thought it sounded slightly better and saved me a bit of money. The dealer agreed with me, and hypothesised that the fixed output gave it the edge, although the azimuth adjustment of the One was a nice consideration. Best of all, tapes I'd made on my previous RX-202 and BX-2 sounded awesome when played back on the CD1.5. The dealer had a tech guy who would check over every Nak and ensure that all settings were exactly to spec, including azimuth. He'd done all the Naks I'd bought from them, and always commented on how well set-up Naks were straight out of the box compared to other brands. Anyway, a few years later I went back and blind traded for a DR-1, mainly for the adjustable azimuth. It was a huge mistake. The CD1.5 sounded much better to my ears. The DR-1 lost the kick-ass bass of the 1.5 (not neutral, but great fun!) and just sounded a bit lean by comparison. I dumped it and got a second-hand ZX-9. Sheer bliss.

The Cassette Deck series are really great looking decks. The build quality seemed to be better than the replacement DR series too. I'd say that CR5 and CR7 apart, they are the high point of the late Nakamichi range.

[perry]

ANT also speaks very highly of his Cassette Deck 1 sound. Still belt drive, but like you said, gear driven idler, auto tape eq, and manual azimuth adjust, it sure sounds like an underrated winner. You see plenty of CD-2s but hardly CD-1s, so I have no idea if they can be picked up for a bargain.

The "A" in CR7A or CD5A just means North American market.

W/o having heard many other Naks, I'd say the CR5 is underrated for specs/features vs current price. But they still fetch $200+ so it's not like people aren't aware of how good they are, like say a truly underrated LX3 or RX-202 where they can still be had for under $50 because they're a "lowly" 2 head deck. The 505 used to be underrated, but lately they've been bringing in $500 range prices for nice ones, so I can't give it my vote.

[faustus]

Classic mech: 480/580 series because they were/are overshadowed by the 680 series.

Sankyo mech: CR-4 because it was/is overshadowed by the CR-7.

[JaeTee]

The 505 used to be underrated, but lately they've been bringing in $500 range prices for nice ones, so I can't give it my vote.

True enough... good point. The 505's on ebay now do seem to have gone up recently. I got mine about 9 months ago and paid less than half of that. However, the price of mine was artificially low because the seller had no decent pics and had reported a squeak noise when transport engaged. Admittedly, it was a bit of a crap shoot and somewhat of a calculated risk. I was willing to immediately dump another $100 or so into it in order to get it working properly if there was a "real" issue.

Luckily, the seller was very honest and I got exactly what was described. I ended up with a working, albeit squeaky, deck which I promptly was able to silence with one little drop of sewing machine oil. The challenging part was learning exactly where to lube. I'm not sure anymore if I got the instructions here or from the naklist. I ended up with a Nakamichi service note on how to fix exactly that problem and it was a piece of cake.

I'm gonna have to oops!jt

[steve_pan]

Classic mech: 480/580 series because they were/are overshadowed by the 680 series.

Sankyo mech: CR-4 because it was/is overshadowed by the CR-7.

This is so true, i had the CR-4 once, my god it hade a beautiful sound and it was not so far from the Cr-7 ( in sound quality)

I had the 580 , i only have the Dragon now but the 580 was built like a battleship it could survive a nuclear war*bomb*

[Elite-ist]

True enough... good point. The 505's on ebay now do seem to have gone up recently. I got mine about 9 months ago and paid less than half of that. However, the price of mine was artificially low because the seller had no decent pics and had reported a squeak noise when transport engaged. Admittedly, it was a bit of a crap shoot and somewhat of a calculated risk. I was willing to immediately dump another $100 or so into it in order to get it working properly if there was a "real" issue.

Luckily, the seller was very honest and I got exactly what was described. I ended up with a working, albeit squeaky, deck which I promptly was able to silence with one little drop of sewing machine oil. The challenging part was learning exactly where to lube. I'm not sure anymore if I got the instructions here or from the naklist. I ended up with a Nakamichi service note on how to fix exactly that problem and it was a piece of cake.

I'm gonna have to oops!jt

Hi JaeTee,

If possible, when you do find those Nakamichi service tips, would you post them, please? Also, of all my decks, the RX-505 will FF and RW a C-90 tape the quickest. I hadn't been checking on ebay for recent Nakamichi RX series sales, as I need to audition a deck before I would consider buying one. The exception is, I would buy a component from a fellow THer without a demo. I don't think the fact these decks may be fetching larger amounts on ebay would change my opinion on being an under rated Nakamichi. I think if you buy a component in as good as original condition for less than half the original retail price it's a more-than-fair price. I bought mine at the local St. Joseph's for $15 and it's had a "physical" without any issues being found.

I currently use my Nakamichi RX-505 as my playback deck when dubbing cassettes with my Pioneer CT-F1250. I'll let you know what Robert thinks of the RX-202 after the idler tire has been replaced and he's used it.


Nando.

[perry]

A 505 for $15...freaking amazing. I've had both of mine for about 2 years now, and paid about $120 for one and $160 for the other IIRC, and both were listed as working, which was BS as they both had stuck pressure roller pivots. One was a real bear to free up, I was sure I'd break the pivot from the nylon frame, but was lucky. Nakdoc was a real help to me with sound advice. Now, non-working ones listed with issues go for $200+. I'm always looking for problem decks. Both are perfect now.

[JaeTee]

A 505 for $15...freaking amazing.


Yea, a $15 RX-505 is a major, major score!

Nando, that service fix is 39k too large for this site's 1.59 mb file attachment limit. And it's a PDF, so I can't edit it. PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

Too bad I can't upload it, I do think it belongs somewhere on here as a permanent reference doc.

(Des, PM me your personal email and I'll send it to you too, if you want to upload this kind of stuff)

[Elite-ist]

A 505 for $15...freaking amazing. I've had both of mine for about 2 years now, and paid about $120 for one and $160 for the other IIRC, and both were listed as working, which was BS as they both had stuck pressure roller pivots. One was a real bear to free up, I was sure I'd break the pivot from the nylon frame, but was lucky. Nakdoc was a real help to me with sound advice. Now, non-working ones listed with issues go for $200+. I'm always looking for problem decks. Both are perfect now.

Hi perry,

The Nakamichi RX-505 was an exceptional find and I had two other audio finds which were comparable- all in my hometown shops. The RX-505 was sitting on its end near the knitting items. The volunteer, working at the St. Joseph's, reminded me it wasn't returnable, but I would receive a store credit if the cassette deck didn't work.

I think with an aging poulation, many 60's and 70's stereo components gets liquidated or donated to local charities. In the same respect, I do donate good used items to these local charities.

Good to see your 505s are working properly because you've got some fine gift cassettes to record with.

Nando.

[Elite-ist]

Yea, a $15 RX-505 is a major, major score!

Nando, that service fix is 39k too large for this site's 1.59 mb file attachment limit. And it's a PDF, so I can't edit it. PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

Too bad I can't upload it, I do think it belongs somewhere on here as a permanent reference doc.

(Des, PM me your personal email and I'll send it to you too, if you want to upload this kind of stuff)


Hi JaeTee,

Thanks for the help. I, only, just downloaded the owner's manual last week.

Nando.

[perry]

nando,
I highly recommend going to naks.com and using their wiki site. They have a huge database of user and service manuals and service bulletins for almost every nak. That 505 lube squeak one is there (which is valid for every classic mech Nak) The SM comes in very handy at times. I've found some obscure bulletins for the Dragon that were very useful.

[gamve]

I reckon the very early Nak decks are overlooked. Still love the noise the old 1000 Tri Tracer makes with the 700 not far behind it either. If you can find these old buggers in good nick they are well worth a listen.

[Elite-ist]

nando,
I highly recommend going to naks.com and using their wiki site. They have a huge database of user and service manuals and service bulletins for almost every nak. That 505 lube squeak one is there (which is valid for every classic mech Nak) The SM comes in very handy at times. I've found some obscure bulletins for the Dragon that were very useful.

Hi perry,

Thanks for the recommendation, as I'll certainly check naks.com out.

Nando.

[83glt]

Where are the manuals on this site? (naks.com)

[bluegreengold]

Naks.com wiki (http://www.naks.com/wiki/doku.php)

[83glt]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elite-ist]

I only own one Nakamichi cassette deck: an RX-505. I haven't had the opportunity to sample any other fine Nakamichi decks, although I do have a little experience with a few Pioneer decks and could offer more observations about that line.

Yesterday, my friend Robert calls me to let me know he's bought a new deck. So. rather than have him tell me, I began asking questions to narrow the field:

Question #1: Is it made in Japan?
Question #2: Is it a mid-grade deck?

After two "Yes" responses from him, he just couldn't contain himself, " It's an RX-202 I bought for $25. Needs an idler tire, though. Would you mind picking it up after it's been repaired?"

Now, Robert has owned more than a few high-end decks in the past, so I'll see how it measures up. The fact he's stoked about it tells me he'll be enjoying it immensely; even though it is a 2-header. And I haven't anything but praise for the under-rated RX series, especially the RX-505.

Nando.

Hi all,

As a follow up to this post, today, I visited Robert. His Nakamichi RX-202 needed nothing more than an idler tire. So after another cash outlay of about $50 to the technician, he's got a very nice $75 cassette deck. What's his impression of the playback and recording sound compared to his BX-300. " If I rated the BX-300 as a 3 out of 5, then the RX-202 is a 4." And he flat out enjoys the novelty of the UDAR, as he was impressed with the speed the cassette could be reversed. The sound is fuller on both playback and recording. I'll get more detailed info, after auditioning both in the future, provided he keeps the BX-300. His RX-202 is in perfect condition cosmetically and, now, mechanically.

Nando.

[perry]

A few things. His BX300 must need to be aligned, (and in reality, probably the 202 as well.) Direct drive 3 head vs a belt drive 2 head? Sound wise, it should be no contest. Fun to use, now that's a different story. Since I just got all the alignment gauges, I've been (only mildly) surprised that every single one of my Naks is off in tilt, and some in tilt and stroke. As soon as I get my 1kHz track tape, then height will be double verified off my other alignment tapes. Ironically, I just "won" a BX300, RX202, and CD1, to add to my other Naks, so I'll be able to verify exactly what differences there are over the next few weeks.

Also, on a different note, after seeing, measuring, and hearing TCP100s CD1.5, I'm thinking that it, and the CD1 (Cassette Deck 1) may be the most under rated Nak decks out there. His decks performance was simple amazing, waveform, W&F, and FR flatness wise, AND an amazingly easy deck to work on as well, by any standard. (Why we didn't check tilt on it while it was here, I can't figure out, as we found both tilt and stroke way off on his Dragon afterwards). The waveform at 20kHz @-20db was, to put it mildly, simply astounding. Rock steady and no hint of wavering, distortion, or level change. The CD1 adds manual PBH azimuth adjustment via beacon detection to the 1.5. If my CD1 performs as well as his 1.5, it will be a real keeper. Why Nak didn't use the DD Sankyo mech version on it is besides me, it would be a near perfect deck then.

[A.N.T.]

Also, on a different note, after seeing, measuring, and hearing TCP100s CD1.5, I'm thinking that it, and the CD1 (Cassette Deck 1) may be the most under rated Nak decks out there. His decks performance was simple amazing, waveform, W&F, and FR flatness wise, AND an amazingly easy deck to work on as well, by any standard. (Why we didn't check tilt on it while it was here, I can't figure out, as we found both tilt and stroke way off on his Dragon afterwards). The waveform at 20kHz @-20db was, to put it mildly, simply astounding. Rock steady and no hint of wavering, distortion, or level change. The CD1 adds manual PBH azimuth adjustment via beacon detection to the 1.5. If my CD1 performs as well as his 1.5, it will be a real keeper. Why Nak didn't use the DD Sankyo mech version on it is besides me, it would be a near perfect deck then.

I consider CD1 the best out of all my Naks (BX-300, CD1, CD1.5, CR-4, 482, 500) sound-wise. It is the only one out of the lot that can compete with my Aiwa XK-S7000 in playback performance. What really baffles me is that CD1 comprehensively outperforms CD1.5 (which is about the same level of performance as BX-300 or DR-2) but supposedly the only real differences between CD1 and CD1.5 are the azimuth control knob and the output level control knob on CD1. There is some difference in the schematics and few components, but nothing drastic. At the moment my suspicion is that the heads for the top decks (i.e. CD1) were selected.

Alex

[Mignun67]

I consider CD1 the best out of all my Naks (BX-300, CD1, CD1.5, CR-4, 482, 500) sound-wise. It is the only one out of the lot that can compete with my Aiwa XK-S7000 in playback performance. What really baffles me is that CD1 comprehensively outperforms CD1.5 (which is about the same level of performance as BX-300 or DR-2) but supposedly the only real differences between CD1 and CD1.5 are the azimuth control knob and the output level control knob on CD1. There is some difference in the schematics and few components, but nothing drastic. At the moment my suspicion is that the heads for the top decks (i.e. CD1) were selected.

Alex

Alex, could be all kinds of things, perhaps even sample variation.

I had both a CD1.5 and a DR1 from new and the CD1.5 was sublime whereas the DR1 was lacklustre, with a rather fatiguing sound that just turned me off. I just couldn't believe how good the CD1.5 was! I sold it, mint and boxed, for a giveaway price a few years ago. More fool me! Of course, I have my ZX-9 and LX-3 to keep me happy and can't really see myself getting rid of either - certainly not the ZX-9, but then it's hardly an "under-rated" deck!

[Quiet Earth]

Here's my 202 acting all underrated and overstated :

[Lapis]

Here's my 202 acting all underrated and overstated :

TDK SA 90. I remember that exact version (1990's) from my teacher who gave it to me. This was back in 2008. I used to have that tape until when I lend it to my friend (which I thought I can trust but he is not a responsible person and he lose that tape !) I and him are not friends anymore !

[Lapis]

I would say that the DR-5. Trust me you do not want to have it, it has auto-reverse (flipping assembly method). NO, this is not like the Dragon or the RX (which has the 'way on how we turned our cassette tapes' or the 4-channel head (found in Sony Walkmans).

[stereorob]

i had a nak bpc receiver once from the 80s that was insainly good sounding. i think it was a TA-4a if memory serves right.

[vidguy]

The 582 and 700 Tri-Tracer are ignored most of the time, yet are superb in their own right.