RIP Cassettes: Are We Starting the Party A Little Late?

[Acoustic]

How about this article...

Say So Long to an Old Companion: Cassette Tapes (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/28/business/media/28cassette.html?em&ex=1217390400&en=229c11efe410695a&ei=5087%0A)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/2717581326_1ec2945c64.jpg

My thoughts? I've gathered opinions about technology through my years and use whatever format works for me. New is not always better, esp since the mid 1980's. End result and how I get there is how I judge what I use. What do you think??

[macster]

We ought to let him know that we really care about what he thinks. Yeah that's it, we really care and also, his research was not too good.

m~

[NAD613]

Yeah, I read that yesterday. Typical NY Times smear piece!

It's funny, but just a couple of weeks ago I read an article that said the sale & repair of 2nd hand tape machines, cassette & RTR, were on the increase.

[close652]

I hate that stupid pic with the butchered cassette.
I have never seen a pic of a bad cd-r, with the player's display flashing "no disc"

[stuwee]

I hate that stupid pic with the butchered cassette.
I have never seen a pic of a bad cd-r, with the player's display flashing "no disc"

:-oo:-oo or, someone taking a bat to a cdp doing the above! *whip**bash*.
These folks have obviously not been to any of our homes, all my friends who thought I was nuts before,have had a real eyeopening experinece lately, unfortunately tape decks are complicated and the good techs are not being replaced as fast as they should be, tapes will last long after the decks all can no longer be repaired, IMHO!

It's up to all of us to bring in the youngin's and pass the torch.

Craig

[Scorpion8]

Sensationalist publishing. Poor research. Stoopid people ....

[braxus]

“I would guess it would be pretty much gone in three years,” he said.

Maybe so in the main market, but there will always be people like us who will not give up tapes. All the more reason to stock pile blanks for the day they are no longer available. I found it interesting to read how the service industry has increased in the repair of decks. I can relate as I've sent 4 decks in this year for just that.

[NAD613]

I agree; it will continue to be a niche product.

[Des-Lab]

Not really sure why this is just NOW being written nor why anyone should be surprised by it. Regardless of the reason behind it, tape in general and cassettes in particular have been seen as passé for quite some time now. The writing was on the wall as far back as the mid 1980's even when it was at its pinnacle of popularity and influence. One could argue that its days have been numbered since around 1981, when the CD was first announced.

It wasn't hard to see that Digital recording in one shape or another would eventually displace analog tape. Keep in mind that the rationale behind the creation of cassettes in the first place was 'convenience'. When CD's came along, their static free sound, ease of use, and remarkable durability was just too irresistable. Hence why they exploded in popularity as quickly as they did. It would only be a matter of time before someone would figure out a way to market a CD-R to the masses. Had it not been for DAT and DCC which slogged their way through the legal system for years, slowing progress down, CD-R could've appeared on the scene a lot earlier than it did. By the time an affordable, mass market CD-R was available to the market (I'm going to place this around year 1999), technology had caught up to-and surpassed the whole tape concept entirely: think recording with no moving parts. So even THAT was just too delicious to a convenience minded public.

Now fidelity issues are an entirely different matter altogether.

But you are right. I can't think of any reason why cassette won't remain an underground niche hobby for the forseeable future. We ourselves are proof of that.

Wonder if there would be big money in converting everyones old cassette collection into CD or MP3?:-?

[stuwee]

Matt is that you? "Wonder if there would be big money in converting everyones old cassette collection into CD or MP3?"

I think there's money in any analog to digital formating but, could you sleep at night? Not a slam dude. I look at like, IMHO it is, CD's and CD-R's have only been around for 20 years for CD's, alot of them are unplayable now, they ain't durable in my book! CD-R's are already showing issues of deterioration, mainly in becoming unplayable in players that used to play them just fine. Don't get me started about the players. That also ain't durable in my book. Convienent for a short time, maybe, I'll bet you (I ain't got anything you'd want) alot, that 10,000 years from now, our future Earthlings will find a LP and play it with a needle of somekind and go aahhh! A CD will just get a WTF and a toss and catch, a pretty frisbie for the future, wanna bet? Tape unfortunately won't survive much more than 50 to 60 years for the strongest formulations in a controlled enviornment.

Hey, I read it in the Enquirer so ya know it's true:D:D

[Des-Lab]

I'd sleep like a baby. If someone was willing to voluntarily pay me to sterilize a perfectly good tape just for the sake of a CD because they are too lazy or not willing to appreciate what they have, then why not? Besides, I could then take some of the proceeds and further attempt to corner the NOS tape market. *naughty* And resell them for a hefty markup. ;-!!

Or maybe not. Because chances are, the buyer would be a fellow TH'er and that *WOULD* present a moral dilemma of sorts that might incur some insomnia. At the very least, I can take advantage of the sleepless night and divert my attention away from the tapes and get "some" from the wife.

I think the jury is still out on CD's. LP's of course have a proven lifespan. But that's also because they got what? An eight decade head start?

I have some vintage 1985 early issue CD's and THEY still play perfectly. I bought my first CD-R unit in 2000 and CD's made THEN still play just fine. So who knows.

Of course as with tape, I only buy the premium grade name brand blank CD's. So I'm assuming they have some sort of lifespan built into them. I would never DREAM of buying those generic, bulk "hundred blanks on a spindle for $10".

Of course we wouldn't dare do that with tapes either now would we?

So sometimes the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[braxus]

Funny- audio and video duplications is my small home business on the side. I have a CD-R deck specifically for taping analog onto CDs, but I must admit it doesn't get much use.

[Battlesnoopy]

I certainly agree with Des's point about the durability. My name brand CD-Rs have lasted thus far and all my commercial ones are still good. Only the acme-no-name-brand CD-Rs in my collection have decayed, and they have in varying degrees depending on treatment and probably fool luck. On the same token, I find cassettes are the same way; name brand lasts and the cheapos degrade. Then again, my old tapes just drop out a bit, they don't flake crap everywhere or completely lose the music like the CD-R :-? That and the fact that CDs tend to come off a bit shrill and hollow oftentimes whereas tapes are warm, crisp, and full when recorded with care on a nice deck keeps me firmly in the crazy tapehead side of the camp. I'm also an LP freak, due partially to how well they get along with a good tape. If only I could find good metals and pro normals brand new for prices that aren't 150 or more percent of what they're supposed to cost, then I'd be pretty set... *hypnot*

[Marc Hugo]

I agree with Matt - there are quite a number of things that drove the move from the early 90s in the direction of home digital recording. I have seen dozens of articles such as this going back at least 10 years and we can still pick up new tapes although the range and ease of doing so has dropped off. I also think that the dropping of bulk recording by book-on-tape companies will not change the availibility of the handful of Fujis and Akais. NYT are smoking their socks there. The markets are unrelated. Many parts of the world are still cassette-recording oriented. Africa (where I live for one), may parts of Asia minor, south east Asia and of course, small enthusiast numbers in first world countries.

[gamve]

IMHO Changing formats is purely a marketing scam. Seems to me the best music reproduction system is still the LP closely followed by analogue tape media systems. The marketers likes you to get cosy with what you have so you spend lotsa dollars only to then tell you that what you now have is crap and you need to replace it with their new bueat (cheaper to produce) digital rubbish. Who remembers those first CD offerings? (What utter rubbish). Own up who was silly enough to sell all their records and jettison their tape equipment for a pittance once the new "wonder" format arrived.
Matt mentioned "Now fidelity issues are an entirely different matter altogether".
I read with interest a while back on the TNT forum a guy that was stating that music reproduction was in fact perfected in the late 50's early 60's. I'm not sure I agree with this but he went on to say. The industry clicked to this pretty quickly and realized that if they sold everyone a perfect music reproduction device...where was the upgrade path and their meal ticket into the future.. If a component is referance grade, why does it have to ever be updated? .....food for thought me thinks
Best Regards
gamve

[mark902]

i don't trust the new york times. that's where i read that my tc-k700es generated it's own internal calibration tones. lousy, deceptive new york times. get me all excited.

[Tapemystic]

Typical commerce marketing scam ...Couldn't agree more, trying to utter brainwash folk that older formats are crap,blablabla, and more blabla...There was a short article only shorter in the Daily Telegraph here not too long ago, and I don't often read papers...*sigh*

CD's are fragile...Very fragile...I just have now another useless broken CD (broken/damaged by player)...I tried to clean the scratches caused by the player...There was a small crack already on the inside rim....craaaack...shattered (2 fat broken lines like a cross..), dead useless Frisbee. The BASF Chromedioxid Super II Cassette copy I made of it earlier plays fine, keeps on playing, and playing...*check*

My Music teacher strongly dislikes iPods (music sessions done on tapes, though now just a simple shoebox recorder)...Says they are just toys (the iPods) ...likes tapes, only her tape deck is currently broken...

Here a Cassette Vs. iPod test...Guess who they see as the winner...Just look*Hi5* :)
http://homepage.mac.com/danielturek/PhotoAlbum50.html

[Tape Rat]

Well here in the UK are police use around a million cassettes a year for recording interviews with suspects, they make two copies in real time on a twin Neal cassette deck one for the solicitor and one for them,I think digtal recording is not up to the job.*reelspin*

[Des-Lab]

Typical commerce marketing scam ...Couldn't agree more, trying to utter brainwash folk that older formats are crap,blablabla, and more blabla...

I agree. There are certain people out there you just don't ask. You will get a biased answer that borders on conflict of interest. Examples of that would be asking a real estate agent when the best time to buy a house is. Or a car salesman the same thing about cars.

The answer will ALWAYS be the same: today. NOW. NEVER a better time than today and now.

Of course they want you to believe that the present is the best time. It may or may not be, but any evidence to the contrary be damned.

Same thing there. When you have the ITunes! and Best Buys of the world (who all peddle the 'modern' crap) who also happen to be big time advertisers for those "news" outlets, of COURSE they are going to try and "steer" you.

That should surprise no one.

[Flick]

While I believe we can all agree cassettes will never reach the heights of its former glory I also believe the powers that be in the music industry don't take everything into consideration. Reel to reels were supposed to have become extinct many years ago but it's been kept alive by old timers and new enthusiasts alike in spite of the difficulties obtaining decks, tapes, and repair parts. The article touches on something which I think is one of the keys to cassette's survival and yet the writer missed the point. There's a certain human factor present in vinyl and cassettes you don't have with a CD. There's a certain feeling of control, of being "master of your own destiny" so to speak when you can see a tape going from one reel to another or watching the sylus as it works its way through a record. To put it in the simplest of terms, records and tapes are fun to use. You put a CD in the machine, it gets swallowed up and disappears. Zero fun factor. The younger generation is discovering the warmer sound and more natural channel separation of analog recordings and every day someone somewhere is thinking they should give tapes or records a try. I think the recording industry shot itself in the foot when it made ordinary CDs two and three times the price of their vinyl and cassette counterparts. Speaking for myself I cannot afford to pay 12 to 18 dollars for an album I can buy for 8 dollars, even less if I want to risk buying a used copy. Is it any wonder people are downloading music, both legitimately and illegitimately, and I have seen very little sympathy for the artists who cry foul because they didn't get their cut. I think there's room for all formats, and those who say the cassette is dead underestimate the human factor such as being able to make tapes for friends, the fun factor of watching something mechanical, and the sound factor between analog and digital. From what I have been able to see, (and heaven knows my knowledge is light years behind the majority of my fellow tapeheads) the ultimate in quality sound is a well made analog recording, be it vinyl or tape, piped through a tube amplifier, out to quality speakers. It's almost the antithesis of everything that is supposed to be modern and cutting edge. The only exception I can see is there will not be a resurgence in eight track tapes on the same level as cassettes. Pressure pad deterioration, dirt entering the cartridge because of the huge opening, time limitations causing songs to be interrupted to switch channels, plus the habit of the tapes to bind, in my opinion, gives it too many strikes against it for it to regain any popularity except among those who choose to remain loyal to that format. (I have an 8 track player and an eight track recorder as well as a four track player..... you never know) As sellers on ebay have discovered, there's money to be made in decks and tapes. I kick myself today for not buying tons of blank tapes back in the days when they were available at any chain drug store, supermarket, and audio outlets because those same tapes are going for anywhere from 5 to what..... seventy dollars(?) when you can find them. Lastly, as long as there are sites like this one, where those of us who use and enjoy analog in all forms, can exchange information, resources, and friendship, the vinyl and tape medium will thrive and grow. As long as there are tapeheads who can show the digital kids what analog is all about, the torch will continue to be passed. IMHO I doubt very much we will ever see a website devoted entirely to the care, preservation, and promotion of CDs and digital recordings and if one should exist I doubt the participants will be as dedicated and enthusiastic as even the most casual tapehead or vinyl user. Now if you'll pardon me I'll end this post here as I need to turn over Renaissance's "Turn Of The Cards" album that's playing on my turntable.

[celticguitar6666]

Analogue Rules! Who's paying his salary? The older mediums will never really die*hope* I listen to over 100 yo 78's I don't think cd's will make it that far. It's about the music isn't it? The only reason I burn CD's is to listen to them in my car. When home it's LP first tape second then CD if it isn't available on either of the former. but preserving the older mediums takes patience and work that alot people don't care to do. Just to mention my well set up dual TT for 78's blows people away and they can't believe thay are lsitening to a 78 that has a reputation for crackly hissing sound. They sound as good as mono lp from the fifties or better as most are direct to disc. you just need the right machine for the job to bring out their best as with tape. We can jsut smile to ourselves at what other people are missing out on.
Dwight

[SaSi_Sidi]

I don't want to make this yet another analog vs digital debate but I have to say this:

A few years ago I was busy digitizing my entire (measly 100) LP collection and also cassettes as many LPs were borrowed and recorded 2 on a C90 cassette.

The cassettes did hiss a bit but that was pretty easy to fix in CoolEdit Pro. LPs were crackling but that wasn't easy to fix.

I recorded everything on my PC and then made MP3s and stored them on CDs. Later I dubbed everything on DVD to save on space. I was thinking that digital is the way to go, however I didn't discard my LPs and cassettes in the same way I would never throw away my digitized film negatives.

That was 2004.

I tried to find some tracks last night (as my cassettes are stored in boxes awaiting a DIY cabinet with drawers for them). Found the DVD, put that in the DVD/CD/MP3/DivX player and enjoyed the nice music. Up to a point. For some reason, at some point playback stuttered, had breakups and sometimes strange and funny (and disturbing) noises.

I removed the disk, wiped it clean and tried again. Same. I then took it to the PC to produce a fresh copy. That single disk might have gone bad. It didn't have a single scratch though.

So, while I was copying the entire contents onto the hard drive, I inserted a second disk to listen to. I immediately seeked one of the last folders on the disk. The same problem occured. Breakups and stutter.

In the meantime, my PC gave up copying the DVD disk when reaching the folder with the problematic tracks. After a few retries, a popup window came up telling me I have a blank disk and did I want to record something on it? *eyepop*

This has happened a few times with some DVD Video recorded disks. In the past I didn't believe those guys saying that DVDRs won't last long. Well, they seem to have been right. And I always bought high quality DVD+Rs and recorded them on a good recorder which was frequently replaced just to make sure it wasn't worn out.

Thankfully my original cassettes are in great shape and sound great. And my LPs are not in much better shape (now that I know how to clean and restored them).

I still confess to be a digital guy. If I want to record a very long broadcast (several hours) I would most certainly record it on the PC.

If I have an LP that is too worn to enjoy and can't find a replacement, I will record it onto my PC and carefully use digital tools to correct the faults.

I am currently of the habit of recording some internet stations with smooth jazz music. This gets cleaned from ads and then recorded onto 3600ft reels to listen to them in the living room.

[stuwee]

SaSi, that was a fantastic story on the dangers of digital, can you imagine how you would have felt if you'd thrown away all your tapes and Lps?? There is nothing wrong with digital but, just don't rely on it for much in the way of archiving...just my opinion *check*

[Pentium100]

This has happened a few times with some DVD Video recorded disks. In the past I didn't believe those guys saying that DVDRs won't last long. Well, they seem to have been right. And I always bought high quality DVD+Rs and recorded them on a good recorder which was frequently replaced just to make sure it wasn't worn out.


I also have a lot of recorded DVDs that I now am planning to record to LTO2 tape (I have recorded one tape already). I just hope that LTO tape lasts longer that DVD-Rs.


I still confess to be a digital guy. If I want to record a very long broadcast (several hours) I would most certainly record it on the PC.


Well, I use my PC for a lot of things, but not for real time recording (like from TV or radio). I found out that if I use a dedicated device for that (a VCR) I can record more reliably. When I recorded with my PC, only a small number of recordings worked - either there was no video or no audio or audio was out of sync or my PC crashed before or during the recording.

If someone wanted me to record a TV show (that I do not have) to DVD, I'd first record it to tape then copy it to PC, this way if the recording fails I can try again.

[DolbySProject]

I've been in IT for, like, twenty years. I'm going to tap dance around the digital vs. analog debate (or try to) by just saying this: compare recoverability and the promise of convenience.

Consider the CD/CD-R medium (or any digital medium). If you lose too many ones and zeros (look up "c1 and/or c2 errors" and "BLER") there is nothing else that can be done, irretrievable. Often it goes from good to gone too quickly to do anything to save it. Conversely, you can bake tapes, transport the tape to a new shell or reel, splice it, re-EQ it, etc. and more often than not you will hear it start to deteriorate before it's too late. That will give you the luxury of time to formulate a plan to restore or re-record.

IMHO in functionality and design MD-minidisc (non-linear recording, write-many (rewritable), editing options, media encased in a shell, compact size) was the more logical "successor" to the cassette. After cassette's introduction and success, it didn't make sense to me to offer a format that could not also be recorded on by the end user. But, CD-R recording was far more cantankerous than cassettes ever were. If you were the type who didn't like wasting money on coasters, the standalone units didn't deliver. To partially cover for that we were given CD-RW but at a noticeably higher price due to the digital rights fight. And though it sounded better, it still had less inherent functionality than MD. In order for it not to be so much of a PITA, now you needed a veritable digital audio workstation: a PC, a decent sound card, recording software, editing software, etc... oh, vey... all I want to do is record my records! Why do I have to turn on a computer?? I can just pop a good tape into a decent deck, let it go and get great sound. If the sound of CD-R were truly spectacular, head and shoulders above what a quality tape deck can handle... then maybe. What I see is that I would need to spend more serious money on a true, HD digital recording format via PC, but have they really bettered the media (DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, BlueRay.... mp3 @ 320kbps???) Convenience strangely turned into incredible complexity. I do that all day. When I come home, I just want to pop a tape in, put a record on and relax.

For it's simplicity alone, I would venture to say that cassettes may be around longer than vox populi may think, even if just by us crazies.

[R.Daneel]

Is it worth it? Taking a slow pace when the life is passing by so quickly? Making good recordings that leave you breathless? Looking how the reels spin? Talking to all these great people on TH net? Come on you gotta be kidding me! I wouldn't like it any other way!

[mmay519]

I'm really thankful for this thread. for the past four days, I have had more than a few friends tell me that I should "digitize" all of my cassettes. Gosh, it seems there are so many problems in making it happen (especially the time to turn about six hundred cassettes into digital,) and then look what might happen afterwards! I've had lot of fun listening to tapes this weekend.

I'm hoping to buy a brand new deck with the income tax refund, either the new Pioneer or Sony.

Take Care,

Mike

[detroit-rock]

I'm really thankful for this thread. for the past four days, I have had more than a few friends tell me that I should "digitize" all of my cassettes. Gosh, it seems there are so many problems in making it happen (especially the time to turn about six hundred cassettes into digital,) and then look what might happen afterwards! I've had lot of fun listening to tapes this weekend.

I'm hoping to buy a brand new deck with the income tax refund, either the new Pioneer or Sony.

Take Care,

Mike

Check out Nakamichi machines before making your purchase

[Maxell-LN]

When it comes to instant convenience of listening to music, up above every thing else, I still enjoy listening to CDs the most, as nothing beats their sonic purity, particularly when the CD is mastered properly in the first place, such as back in the 80s and 90s. The odd 300 discs that I have from the 80s all still play perfectly, and I'm very confident with care and looking after, they will last for the term of my natural life.

When it comes to having a more enjoyable listening experience, over the instant convenience factor, then a recording on a Maxell XLII recorded in type II mode, then played back in type I sounds great. Or even the unique sound of an older gen Maxell UR, LN, UL, or UD recorded with Dolby B and C on, then played back with the dolby switched off. The kind of reproduction in both of the above cases will never be found in a CD recording.

Though a CD is sonically a perfect sound, the fuzzy warm sound of a personally crafted recorded tape is special and can never be replaced by any other format.

When it comes to a format for archival use, personaly I have found my CDs to be the most reliable, next to good brand CD-Rs and DVD-Rs (archiving audio wav files), such brands as TDK and Verbatim (taiyo-yuden) I feel confidently again will last for the term of my natural life.

Aside from most BASF's going all gooey on me, I've not yet had any issues with Maxells, Sony's and TDK's.

Though I have an odd few thousand LP records, (half of which are 80s 12" dance mixes), the only time they get dragged out now, is when I shift them over to Cd. I find vinyl records the most delicate and fragile of any recording media, even much, much more so then audio cassettes. Out of all the by-gone formats, I would have to say I'm rather stumped on why there has been such a re-emergence in vinyl sales, such as the articles noting of half the Billboard top albums were still available on vinyl. Even for me, a cassette tape is much more of a joy to listen to then a record. Even with very careful hands, records are just so prone to damage whether it be a flake of dust or the slightest scratch, you'll hear it.