About Minidiscs

[MP7301]

Hi!
I never seen and used minidiscs so I want some things to know,maybe will buy one!
So,many people I asked about minidisc's said,there's nothing special,the same as CD only it's not as big as cd.But I've hearded that they can be recordable much times,and the quallity of music keeps the same!So is this true?
And there's thing I can't understand - If the Minidiscs is Hight Quallity,how you can put 45hours of music in one 1GB minidisc ?
And how I can transfer music to the Minidisc?Do I need to record them the analog way like the cassette,or I can connect it to the pc and transfer the tracks?
And how about avabillity?You know,the cassettes isn't as avabile as cd's,how about mindisc?It they are more avabile,and they can be re - recorded without loosing quallity,it can be very economical deck,cause I can have only 1 minidisc and record it how much times I want :D !

[close652]

Minidisc FAQ: http://minidisc.org/minidisc_faq.html

[4tified]

Hi!
I never seen and used minidiscs so I want some things to know,maybe will buy one!
So,many people I asked about minidisc's said,there's nothing special,the same as CD only it's not as big as cd.But I've hearded that they can be recordable much times,and the quallity of music keeps the same!So is this true?
And there's thing I can't understand - If the Minidiscs is Hight Quallity,how you can put 45hours of music in one 1GB minidisc ?
And how I can transfer music to the Minidisc?Do I need to record them the analog way like the cassette,or I can connect it to the pc and transfer the tracks?
And how about avabillity?You know,the cassettes isn't as avabile as cd's,how about mindisc?It they are more avabile,and they can be re - recorded without loosing quallity,it can be very economical deck,cause I can have only 1 minidisc and record it how much times I want :D !

The 1GB minidiscs you're refering to are a recent development. They can store lossless audio vs the standard minidisc which uses compression and is lossy. Look up ATRAC to see what I mean.

[R.Daneel]

To my ears, best sound on minidisc can be obtained using a standard Atrac codec at 292kbps and recording done via analog inputs. If a md deck is a good quality with Atrac type-R processing and 24bit inputs such as the Sony mds-jb930, then it is way better to record via analog inputs. The signal is then from analog converted to a 24bit digital stream and as such recorded on the minidisc itself. When you record digitally via optical or coaxial digital input, the cd player streams 16bit audio signal and it is then processed by Atrac in 24bit resolution but is recorded as a 16bit audio on the minidisc. Therefore, analog si theoretically better. Of course it will depend on the cd player but any newer good quality cd player should do better in analog.

Minidisc media is indestructible and can be recorded on and re-recorded many times. they always sound the same. I used Sony Premium discs and never had problem with a single one.

[MP7301]

Yes today i found an information about md-they are commpressed and they cut of frequencies that people ear ''can't hear'' - something like mp3's,sounds bad...

[4tified]

Yes today i found an information about md-they are commpressed and they cut of frequencies that people ear ''can't hear'' - something like mp3's,sounds bad...

The latter (post 1995) ATRAC format sounds 10 times better than MP3, and is an overall better format....especially type R. Don't let the compression fool you, it is very hard to distinguish from original source (digital or analog) unless you're performing a spectral analysis.

And yes, the format is virtually indestructable.

Minidiscs should have taken over CD. (The lossless version anyway).

[Pentium100]

Also, if I understand it correctly, Hi-MD devices can format regular minidiscs so they store more data (but are incompatible with older players unless you format the disk again with the standard capacity), also they can store uncompressed PCM audio in the regular minidiscs (with either capacity).

I was planning to buy a Hi-MD recorder to record audio that I want digitized. I was planning to record the audio in PCM to a minidisc then copy it to my PC. And then I saw the price.

[MP7301]

Used md players are cheap here...So if i undestand that Pentium said, can record uncompressed music too?

[4tified]

Used md players are cheap here...So if i undestand that Pentium said, can record uncompressed music too?

Yes, but only with Hi-MD recorders. You cannot capture and encode lossless audio with regular MD recorders. The Hi_MD equipment can be had from $200 - $400.

Standard MD recorders (with ATRAC) can be purchased for much, much cheaper.

[tcp100]

Yes, but only with Hi-MD recorders. You cannot capture and encode lossless audio with regular MD recorders. The Hi_MD equipment can be had from $200 - $400.

Standard MD recorders (with ATRAC) can be purchased for much, much cheaper.

I just picked up a Hi-MD home deck - it cost me about $400, and then about $70 in shipping from Japan. They don't sell them in the US, but they're still available (at least for a while) in Japan.

I got the Onkyo MD-105FX from here.. Better price than AudioCubes2:

http://www.hovanfue.com/store/products/ONKYO-MD%252d105FX-Hi%252dMD-Recording-Deck.html

Was able to get the 100v transformer from Amazon no problem. (I know a lot of folks insist Japanese equipment can run in the US at 110/120v, but I didn't feel like risking it.)

[R.Daneel]

Hello!

Regarding the Atrac compression... 4tified is right. Latest generations of Atrac processors such as type-R and txpe-S are highly advance algorithms with intelligent bit reallocation. Mp3 doesn't sound even nearly as good. I would say that a good minidisc source sound as a lossless format such as flac streamed to external dac from the computer. It doesn't matter if the format is compressed because minidisc even at 292kbps versus 1411kbps in cd can sound good because it samples the data at 24bit resolution, not 16bit as cd does.

Latest hi-md units can recird in linear pcm (cd standard) but even that format is compressed - just liek the cd. No matter how a digital format is densely packed (mp3, cd or sacd), it is compressed as the analog wave is divided into samples of certain amount (24bit for minidisc). It is just a matter of sample size and the speed by which those samples are processed. But it is still compressed. When they said linear pcm uncompressed recording in hi-md, they meant the data is not aditionally compressed and retains the same sampling frequency and bit length as the original cd.

A good md deck can sound wonderful and unless you have a very expensive system, it won't be the weak link. Also, you can connect it to an external dac and improve the sound even further.

[MP7301]

Thanks for reply's !
What u think abotu this Sony http://www.ss.lv/msg/lv/electronics/audio/cd-md-players/chpln.html
Seller says that it's Mds-Je430,but google cant find anything about it...Also he says that this have remonte control and digital cable.
So the quallity of standart md can be the same as .flac file streamed form computer?

[R.Daneel]

Hello again!

The minidisc deck you provided a link for is not an mds-je430. Such thing doesn't exist. However, there is an 330 and 530 models. They are older models and 530 is a good deck. 330 is really nothing much unless you get it for free. But if you insist on a cheaper deck, I will tell you which ones are good:

All models are Sony since Sony was the prime manufacturer and it's decks were still available a few years ago.

mds-je480 - the cheapest one but really a good deck as it has an atrac type-s (this is the most advanced minidisc codec ever developed)
mds-je780 - basically an mds-je480 but has more inputs, better lcd screen, net-md feature (can be connected to pc via usb)
mds-jb980 - a quality standard by Sony that has everything as the mds-je780 but is made more solidly with front aluminium panel and has some better quality electronis inside (better caps in the analog stage and a better damping of vibrations)

I'd suggest you get an mds-je780 deck as it is virtually the same as mds-jb980 but can be found much cheaper.

Also, if you do find yourself a good mds-jb940, don't think twice. It is a truly superb deck with atrac type-R, better built than mds-jb980 (which is a newer model), has more inputs and outputs, has really good caps and power transformers inside, has a Sony dedicated variable coefficient digital filters and a genuine 24bit ins and outs. It may not be better built than Sony's ES series but when sound is concerned, I'd say it is one of the top 5 minidisc decks ever made. Also, mds-jb930 is the same one but doesn't have mdlp feature (2x and 4x long recording time) but some have reported that it's recording quality is even better thhan the mds-jb940! It is a smooth mchine, excellent sounding and full featured.

Other models are Sony's ES series but they do cost really a lot of money. But if you could get an mds-ja20es for a good price, that'd be awesome! It is maybe a litttle better than mds-jb930/940 in sound but is better built. But, it doesn't have a keyboard input like the 930/940 so it is a bit complicated to enter song titles. But hey, it has a minidisc drawer instead of slot!

Out of other brands, I would get the Kenwood dmf-9020. It is a good deck that uses cs4397 dac chipset, has true 24bit ins and outs, has all the inputs and outputs you'll ever need and is built very solidly. It also has a keyboard input and superior interface and control system. However, atrac codec is Sony's 4.5 version which is lesser than type-R but it is not a significant difference. That also means it does not have an mdlp feature because type-R machines were the first to employ it though not all type-R machines have one like the mds-jb930.

If you don't wanna spend a lot of money and need a good deck, get the sony mds-je780. Works great, reliable and looks good too. For a first md deck, it's all you could want. If you like the format, you can get something better or not because it is indeed a solid deck.

It is obvious by now I like minidisc lol but if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Regards!
RD

[4tified]

Hello again!

The minidisc deck you provided a link for is not an mds-je430. Such thing doesn't exist. However, there is an 330 and 530 models. They are older models and 530 is a good deck. 330 is really nothing much unless you get it for free. But if you insist on a cheaper deck, I will tell you which ones are good:

All models are Sony since Sony was the prime manufacturer and it's decks were still available a few years ago.

mds-je480 - the cheapest one but really a good deck as it has an atrac type-s (this is the most advanced minidisc codec ever developed)
mds-je780 - basically an mds-je480 but has more inputs, better lcd screen, net-md feature (can be connected to pc via usb)
mds-jb980 - a quality standard by Sony that has everything as the mds-je780 but is made more solidly with front aluminium panel and has some better quality electronis inside (better caps in the analog stage and a better damping of vibrations)

I'd suggest you get an mds-je780 deck as it is virtually the same as mds-jb980 but can be found much cheaper.

Also, if you do find yourself a good mds-jb940, don't think twice. It is a truly superb deck with atrac type-R, better built than mds-jb980 (which is a newer model), has more inputs and outputs, has really good caps and power transformers inside, has a Sony dedicated variable coefficient digital filters and a genuine 24bit ins and outs. It may not be better built than Sony's ES series but when sound is concerned, I'd say it is one of the top 5 minidisc decks ever made. Also, mds-jb930 is the same one but doesn't have mdlp feature (2x and 4x long recording time) but some have reported that it's recording quality is even better thhan the mds-jb940! It is a smooth mchine, excellent sounding and full featured.

Other models are Sony's ES series but they do cost really a lot of money. But if you could get an mds-ja20es for a good price, that'd be awesome! It is maybe a litttle better than mds-jb930/940 in sound but is better built. But, it doesn't have a keyboard input like the 930/940 so it is a bit complicated to enter song titles. But hey, it has a minidisc drawer instead of slot!

Out of other brands, I would get the Kenwood dmf-9020. It is a good deck that uses cs4397 dac chipset, has true 24bit ins and outs, has all the inputs and outputs you'll ever need and is built very solidly. It also has a keyboard input and superior interface and control system. However, atrac codec is Sony's 4.5 version which is lesser than type-R but it is not a significant difference. That also means it does not have an mdlp feature because type-R machines were the first to employ it though not all type-R machines have one like the mds-jb930.

If you don't wanna spend a lot of money and need a good deck, get the sony mds-je780. Works great, reliable and looks good too. For a first md deck, it's all you could want. If you like the format, you can get something better or not because it is indeed a solid deck.

It is obvious by now I like minidisc lol but if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Regards!
RD

Will you be my new best friend?

You are very knowledgeable, thanks for that mental minidisc catalog of yours *Hi5*.

[R.Daneel]

Will you be my new best friend?

You are very knowledgeable, thanks for that mental minidisc catalog of yours *Hi5*.

LOL yeah sure! You are welcome*reelspin**reelspin*

[MP7301]

Maybe someone has a recorded sample form minidisc's in uncompressed .wav format ? Want to hear about how they sound,nothing good found in youtube...
Just looked about their prices(I mea the minidisc prices,not deck) they cost much more many than cd player or cassette

[4tified]

Maybe someone has a recorded sample form minidisc's in uncompressed .wav format ? Want to hear about how they sound,nothing good found in youtube...
Just looked about their prices(I mea the minidisc prices,not deck) they cost much more many than cd player or cassette

What kind of sample do you need? (ie: what kind of music). I can upload an analog track since I don't have optical/coax inputs on my sound card.

[shadowlord]

Maybe someone has a recorded sample form minidisc's in uncompressed .wav format ? Want to hear about how they sound,nothing good found in youtube...
Just looked about their prices(I mea the minidisc prices,not deck) they cost much more many than cd player or cassette

sorry i don't have a sample at hand. but rest aussured that it will sound identical to the source material. Even the lossy ATRAC compression (not the Long Play variants though) was very well developed and is nearly indistinguishable from the source even on decent systems.

[R.Daneel]

here's an interesting thing about MDs for ya fans!

While the LinearPCM (Pulse Code Modulation) offers greater speed from Atrac system that uses PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) - 1411kb/s vs 292kb/s, PCM in an MD format works in 16bit samples. Atrac works in 24bit samples. So that means that with a sampling frequency of 44.1KHz PCM in an MD (or CD) format takes one sample of 16bits 44100 times in one second while the Atrac processes 24bits at that same speed. Therefore, LPCM doesn't need to be better because mathematics don't really show that.

Atrac DSP chips have been developed for minidisc technology specifically - that means intelligent remapping algorithms that reallocate data bits to make it more compact. Having a hardware developed for something in specific, one can never know what the results would be when using it for another purpose such as the PCM.

That is why Sony introduced the Hi-SP and Hi-LP modes in Atrac3plus which is basically a PCM compressed data stream rather than PWM in the original Atrac. It wasn't possible for them to use a new meedia and PCm and use the original Atrac codec. That is why Atrac3plus was developed. i am not sure but I don't think they could have used the same DSP type-S for PCM ncoding/decoding and it is very likely they used some other codecs which are musch more similar to usual mp3 ones than to type-S.

From my experience with minidisc technology, I can say I got better results when recording in standard Atrac format than in LPCM. There couls be many reasons for that - mentioned hardware designs, only 16bit resolution and the major differences in the decks used. There are no JI-MD high-end decks! there are many fantastic std-MD decks and a deck like Sony ES series will beat that Onkyo regardless of it's LPCM ability.

Also, and this is very important!
Alway try different ways to record - analog and digital. when you record from digital sources with coaxial/optical outputs, the signal being recorded to MD will always be in the form it came out of that source. Minidisc cannot handle more than 16bits on it's inputs. The data is processed by the DSP in 24bit words but is stored on the media in original 16bit data stream. There is no question of improved resolution here!
BUT
when you record via analog inputs, if that deck supports wide-bit-stream technology (most Sony ES and QS series decks do, icluding a kenwood DMF-9020), the analog signal is converted to digital in the A-D converter section to 24bit form, processed by DSP in 24bits and then stored in 24bits on the media. This is the reason LPs sounds so good when recorded on minidisc. Some might know what I'm talking about...

MD decks don't have an internal resolution onverter so in many ways analog recording might actually sound better.

There is also something I'd like to say - some years ago Audio alchemy was a US manufacturer of audio stuff such as D-A converters and resolution converters. i remember their DTI - digital transmission interface that had the ability to convert 16bit streams into 24bit before the signal reaches the D-A converter. You could use that or something similar to convert the 16bit signal out of a cd player to 24bits and into the input of an MD deck. While MD deck can handle only 16bits as I said, it doesn't mean it can't accept 24bit signals. When I said it can handle only 16bit, i meant that it is the signal that will be recorded on the media. It can't convert an upoming 16bit signal into 24bit one all by itself, but if the input is 24bit, then it will store the data as such. it is a courtesy of PWM system.

I don't know why it was implemented but the reason might be the hardware needed to be fast and process the data at greater word-length than the actual signal so that the encoder could have enough "space" for data reallocation. That might be one of the reasons.

MD was a good thing. Ahead of it's time really. The reason the first incarnations of Atrac sounded bad was very simple - it needed greater processing power than was available at that time. In 1992 when it launched, you had those 286 or 386 machines I think and those were home machines which means in an audio component not even that kind of power was possible. And the latest codecs like type-R or type-S were highly advanced and fast processors optimized only for one purpose.

In the end, HI-MD 1GB discs are expensive and don't see any poiint in recording in LPCM. It would be justifiable if it was sounding significantly better than std-MD but it really isn't.

[4tified]

here's an interesting thing about MDs for ya fans!

While the LinearPCM (Pulse Code Modulation) offers greater speed from Atrac system that uses PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) - 1411kb/s vs 292kb/s, PCM in an MD format works in 16bit samples. Atrac works in 24bit samples. So that means that with a sampling frequency of 44.1KHz PCM in an MD (or CD) format takes one sample of 16bits 44100 times in one second while the Atrac processes 24bits at that same speed. Therefore, LPCM doesn't need to be better because mathematics don't really show that.

Atrac DSP chips have been developed for minidisc technology specifically - that means intelligent remapping algorithms that reallocate data bits to make it more compact. Having a hardware developed for something in specific, one can never know what the results would be when using it for another purpose such as the PCM.

That is why Sony introduced the Hi-SP and Hi-LP modes in Atrac3plus which is basically a PCM compressed data stream rather than PWM in the original Atrac. It wasn't possible for them to use a new meedia and PCm and use the original Atrac codec. That is why Atrac3plus was developed. i am not sure but I don't think they could have used the same DSP type-S for PCM ncoding/decoding and it is very likely they used some other codecs which are musch more similar to usual mp3 ones than to type-S.

From my experience with minidisc technology, I can say I got better results when recording in standard Atrac format than in LPCM. There couls be many reasons for that - mentioned hardware designs, only 16bit resolution and the major differences in the decks used. There are no JI-MD high-end decks! there are many fantastic std-MD decks and a deck like Sony ES series will beat that Onkyo regardless of it's LPCM ability.

Also, and this is very important!
Alway try different ways to record - analog and digital. when you record from digital sources with coaxial/optical outputs, the signal being recorded to MD will always be in the form it came out of that source. Minidisc cannot handle more than 16bits on it's inputs. The data is processed by the DSP in 24bit words but is stored on the media in original 16bit data stream. There is no question of improved resolution here!
BUT
when you record via analog inputs, if that deck supports wide-bit-stream technology (most Sony ES and QS series decks do, icluding a kenwood DMF-9020), the analog signal is converted to digital in the A-D converter section to 24bit form, processed by DSP in 24bits and then stored in 24bits on the media. This is the reason LPs sounds so good when recorded on minidisc. Some might know what I'm talking about...

MD decks don't have an internal resolution onverter so in many ways analog recording might actually sound better.

There is also something I'd like to say - some years ago Audio alchemy was a US manufacturer of audio stuff such as D-A converters and resolution converters. i remember their DTI - digital transmission interface that had the ability to convert 16bit streams into 24bit before the signal reaches the D-A converter. You could use that or something similar to convert the 16bit signal out of a cd player to 24bits and into the input of an MD deck. While MD deck can handle only 16bits as I said, it doesn't mean it can't accept 24bit signals. When I said it can handle only 16bit, i meant that it is the signal that will be recorded on the media. It can't convert an upoming 16bit signal into 24bit one all by itself, but if the input is 24bit, then it will store the data as such. it is a courtesy of PWM system.

I don't know why it was implemented but the reason might be the hardware needed to be fast and process the data at greater word-length than the actual signal so that the encoder could have enough "space" for data reallocation. That might be one of the reasons.

MD was a good thing. Ahead of it's time really. The reason the first incarnations of Atrac sounded bad was very simple - it needed greater processing power than was available at that time. In 1992 when it launched, you had those 286 or 386 machines I think and those were home machines which means in an audio component not even that kind of power was possible. And the latest codecs like type-R or type-S were highly advanced and fast processors optimized only for one purpose.

In the end, HI-MD 1GB discs are expensive and don't see any poiint in recording in LPCM. It would be justifiable if it was sounding significantly better than std-MD but it really isn't.

+1 Point for the classic ATRAC minidisc!

You rock!

[R.Daneel]

+1 Point for the classic ATRAC minidisc!

You rock!

LOL! Commander Data was my role-model what can I say.

Actually, I might be a bit off when I mentioned the Kenwood DMF-9020 (has a different model number in the US). It features something called REC RIVE system and it has a version 2 of this system. That model uses 20bit A-D converters and then uses that system to convert it to 24bit and store it on the media. I am however not sure if that system works in the digital domain or it doesn't so you still need an external converter for that. But regardless of that, it uses atrac 4.5 version which is not as powerful as the type-R but it has a very capable analog stage and the D-A converter so it makes up for that.

But yeah, i definitely do agree it's +1 point for the std-MD.

What kind of a n md deck do you have 4tified?
RD

[Elite-ist]

Hi R&D,

Very good run down of important technical aspects of MD technology. I have both a home player/recorder and a portable player/recorder. They are both Sonys: the first is a combination CD and MD unit; MXD-D5C and the second is a Net MD Walkman MZ-N510. I recently used the Walkman to record directly from my brother-in-law's keyboard. He's composed some very nice music and one of his favorite bands is Saga. I had a tough time finding an optical digital cable for the Walkman, as it's a mini-plug on one end and conventional Toslink at the other end.

If you're interested, post some pictures of your MD player/recorders and I'll do the same.

Nando.

[R.Daneel]

If you're interested, post some pictures of your MD player/recorders and I'll do the same.

Nando.

Hi Nando!

Of course I'm interested but still didn't solve that camera problem. It is driving me crazy! Everything works except the usb connection. Last time I bought a Canon!

I have several md units amongst which I like best the Sony MZ-NH1 and Sharp IM-DR420 portable recorders. NH1 is a better one of course with that magnesium alloy chassis but Sharps is a very fine unit indeed. At that time Sharp were renowned for superior sound and that was true but only when mid-level Sonys were concerned however.

I did have several decks but don't have them anymore. I was really crazy about md and even more crazy to sell my two decks! I would take a good md deck over a dat anyday of the week for it's versatility, simplicity and reliability.

Please post some pics Nando and I will post mine asap. Will need to buy an external card reader as I a, really tired of this waiting.

BTW, I did a little research on the Kenwood DMF-9020 (MD-2070 in US) and it HAS an internal resolution converter and can achieve 24bit on any input - analog or digital without the need to externally convert the signal. This is actually better than the SOny system as it worked only with analog inputs.

[Elite-ist]

Hi Nando!

Of course I'm interested but still didn't solve that camera problem. It is driving me crazy! Everything works except the usb connection. Last time I bought a Canon!

I have several md units amongst which I like best the Sony MZ-NH1 and Sharp IM-DR420 portable recorders. NH1 is a better one of course with that magnesium alloy chassis but Sharps is a very fine unit indeed. At that time Sharp were renowned for superior sound and that was true but only when mid-level Sonys were concerned however.

I did have several decks but don't have them anymore. I was really crazy about md and even more crazy to sell my two decks! I would take a good md deck over a dat anyday of the week for it's versatility, simplicity and reliability.

Please post some pics Nando and I will post mine asap. Will need to buy an external card reader as I a, really tired of this waiting.

BTW, I did a little research on the Kenwood DMF-9020 (MD-2070 in US) and it HAS an internal resolution converter and can achieve 24bit on any input - analog or digital without the need to externally convert the signal. This is actually better than the SOny system as it worked only with analog inputs.

These portables are flat-out amazing! I keep all my Walkman accessories, including the Walkman, in a soft-sided video camera bag. It's a mini-recording studio in a bag. I'll post pictures today or tomorrow.

Nando.

[R.Daneel]

These portables are flat-out amazing! I keep all my Walkman accessories, including the Walkman, in a soft-sided video camera bag. It's a mini-recording studio in a bag. I'll post pictures today or tomorrow.

Nando.

Yeah they definitely are!

I did some recordings on NH1 from an LP with a good preamp and let me tell you - the sound was really good. The thing with these units is some (like the NH1) us 24bit A-D converters so the sound recorded is truly superb. It was always strange to me that manufacturers never stated what kind of converters are used. So, I found some service manuals and did a little research. For instance - the NH1 and the newest RH1 units use an AKM A-D convertr with integrated mic-preamp. It is capable of 24bit resolution in 96kHz! It si scaled doen to 44.1 because of the system iteslf but the resolution is 24bit. Also uses the newest type-S dsp which is 24bit in nature.

There are always reasons why something is so good.

I am looking forward to the pics!

[Elite-ist]

Yeah they definitely are!

I did some recordings on NH1 from an LP with a good preamp and let me tell you - the sound was really good. The thing with these units is some (like the NH1) us 24bit A-D converters so the sound recorded is truly superb. It was always strange to me that manufacturers never stated what kind of converters are used. So, I found some service manuals and did a little research. For instance - the NH1 and the newest RH1 units use an AKM A-D convertr with integrated mic-preamp. It is capable of 24bit resolution in 96kHz! It si scaled doen to 44.1 because of the system iteslf but the resolution is 24bit. Also uses the newest type-S dsp which is 24bit in nature.

There are always reasons why something is so good.

I am looking forward to the pics!

Hi Antun,

So, the OM won't list the A/D specs? I'll check mine. It may not have been done yet, but what are your thoughts on doing a Mix MD Swap? I'll include never-before-heard tunes my brother-in-law has done. Strictly keyboard stuff and no vocals. I'll see what time is available, once the Travelling Tapes have been completed. Then, I'm undertaking a home renovation in about 2 weeks from now, which will take at least 5-6 weeks to complete.

Nando.

[R.Daneel]

Hi Antun,

So, the OM won't list the A/D specs? I'll check mine. It may not have been done yet, but what are your thoughts on doing a Mix MD Swap? I'll include never-before-heard tunes my brother-in-law has done. Strictly keyboard stuff and no vocals. I'll see what time is available, once the Travelling Tapes have been completed. Then, I'm undertaking a home renovation in about 2 weeks from now, which will take at least 5-6 weeks to complete.

Nando.

Of course!

The only thing you can choose is the md kind - not the music as it will be a surprise! I'll see what I have and let you know! I love trading! When the DAC is repaired I will record analog.

[Elite-ist]

Of course!

The only thing you can choose is the md kind - not the music as it will be a surprise! I'll see what I have and let you know! I love trading! When the DAC is repaired I will record analog.

Hi Antun,

Your MD blank choices will be: Maxell MD Gold 74, Sony Prism 80, Sony Shock Absorbing Coating 80, or Memorex MD 74. I'll post pictures of the blanks with both Sony machines.

Nando.

[R.Daneel]

Hi Antun,

Your MD blank choices will be: Maxell MD Gold 74, Sony Prism 80, Sony Shock Absorbing Coating 80, or Memorex MD 74. I'll post pictures of the blanks with both Sony machines.

Nando.

Oh wow! Thanks Nando!

So far I have found Sony Premium 80 discs. Will need to look for some more. i remember these discs getting 5 stars in hiFi choice on a big md media test they had. Will look for some more.

[4tified]

Antun,

Here are my minidisc devices:

Sony MXD-D3 (ATRAC 4.5). Looking to upgrade to the MXD-D40 with ATRAC Type R and MDLP capabilities.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j80/4tified/IMG_5330.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j80/4tified/IMG_5337.jpg



And here are my (3) Portables. From left to right:

Sony MZ-N510 NET Recorder with ATRAC Type S / MDLP
Sony MZ-N707 NET Recorder with ATRAC Type R / MDLP
Sony MZ-R30 with ATRAC 4 and Magnesium Alloy Case (My favorite!)

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j80/4tified/IMG_5332.jpg


And about 450 minidiscs I bought from a guy with an MZ-R55 and this MXD-D3 for $100 total here in Dallas a few years ago (I sold about 50 minidiscs and the MZ-R55 and made back $75, so all in all, I got the deck and 450 minidiscs for $25 :-):

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j80/4tified/IMG_5339.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j80/4tified/IMG_5338.jpg

[Naknut]

Wow 4tified, you got a great deal and those portable players are very cool. I have to find me one of those. I only have a working Sony home unit and 4 mini discs. I wish I had not listened to the review magazines back in the day and had gotten into mini discs.

[4tified]

Wow 4tified, you got a great deal and those portable players are very cool. I have to find me one of those. I only have a working Sony home unit and 4 mini discs. I wish I had not listened to the review magazines back in the day and had gotten into mini discs.

Thanks!

The MZ-N510 on the left cost me $25 (Including shipping) and the MZ-N707 on the right cost $35, but has only a few hours use on it. Minidiscs are definatley a niche market, but they are also versitile, durable, and well thought out. I love having the ability to take a tiny MD recorder ANYWHERE and rip some good tunes.

Don't let ATRAC scare you. I find it to be a pretty efficient compression system.

[R.Daneel]

Thanks!

The MZ-N510 on the left cost me $25 (Including shipping) and the MZ-N707 on the right cost $35, but has only a few hours use on it. Minidiscs are definatley a niche market, but they are also versitile, durable, and well thought out. I love having the ability to take a tiny MD recorder ANYWHERE and rip some good tunes.

Don't let ATRAC scare you. I find it to be a pretty efficient compression system.

Wow great pics my friend! Thanks!

Yep, Atrac is great. And minidisc units in general are awesome and better sounding thn most today's portable players. You should get one naknut, try some cheaper one first. As 4tified said, they are cheap but very cool and useful to have.

[Elite-ist]

Thanks!

The MZ-N510 on the left cost me $25 (Including shipping) and the MZ-N707 on the right cost $35, but has only a few hours use on it. Minidiscs are definatley a niche market, but they are also versitile, durable, and well thought out. I love having the ability to take a tiny MD recorder ANYWHERE and rip some good tunes.

Don't let ATRAC scare you. I find it to be a pretty efficient compression system.

Hi 4tified,

That's a nice collection of MD player/recorders and MDs! Here's a photo of my Sony MXD-D5C and Pioneer CT-WM77R cassette deck. The blur in the 2nd shot is the song title scrolling across on the display as I'm playing an MD.

I bought both from the original owner, who had a penchant in buying the latest in technology of the time. I'll post a picture of my portable, later.

Nando.

[Elite-ist]

And pictures of my Sony Walkman.

Nando.

[4tified]

And pictures of my Sony Walkman.

Nando.

That's a nice MZ510 ya got there! Like the color. That D5C is pretty massive, and I had no idea Pioneer made a cassette changer?
Anyway, which version of SonicStage do you happen to have?

[tcp100]

Has anyone here tried the MZ-RH1 / MZ-M200?

It's one sexy little beast. And it sounds just plain amazing.

I am very, very disappointed at Minidisc's early demise. Sony had nobody to blame but themselves, however. They did a horrible job marketing it early, and it took forever for reasonable priced recorders to show up.

I've followed minidisc from day 1.. My first unit was an Aiwa AMD-100 (Inherited from my brother, actually, who jumped right on it. I chose DCC at first!) This was the Aiwa analog to Sony's MZ-1. I think it was around the $1000 mark when it first came out. It was considered a breakthrough when Sony came out with the $299 home recorder + portable combo, but that took about SIX YEARS, and by then it was too late.

If you look at what's happened in comparison, the last units were no bigger than a minidisc itself, almost!

The discs recorded in MD mode on the MZ-RH1 still play great on the AMD-100 - and they sound better ON the AMD-100 than the discs that the AMD-100 records itself (the wonders of how Sony worked backwards compatibility improvements with Minidisc.)

http://www.tapeheads.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10956&stc=1&d=1265761215

http://www.tapeheads.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10957&stc=1&d=1265761215

[tcp100]

And here's my newest MD score.. An Onkyo MD-105FX Hi-MD home unit, shown in relation to my Yamaha KX-1200U (note what's playing lately, but I digress.)

I use it not so much for LinearPCM, but to get hours of HiSP on a Hi-MD, or just plain amazing sound when you format a regular MD blank to Hi-MD mode, and record on Hi-SP or even Hi-LP.

Only problem is, HiMD blanks are starting to cost as much as metal tapes! Good thing there were only a couple of varieties, though..

http://www.tapeheads.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10958&stc=1&d=1265761835

[Elite-ist]

That's a nice MZ510 ya got there! Like the color. That D5C is pretty massive, and I had no idea Pioneer made a cassette changer?
Anyway, which version of SonicStage do you happen to have?

Hi 4tified,

Thanks! I'm not sure which version it is, as my Sony Vaio PC is already loaded with Sonic Stage, and I haven't used this program at all. I think it's Ver. 1.1, judging by the documentation.

The Sony MD home player/recorder is large, due in part, to housing a 5-CD changer. I haven't utilized all the features of the MXD-D5C, as I've been spending more time with the analog components. The Walkman gets more use because it's portable.

Pioneer made a couple of different cassette changers in the 90's. Hasn't failed me, yet.

Nando.

[Elite-ist]

Has anyone here tried the MZ-RH1 / MZ-M200?

It's one sexy little beast. And it sounds just plain amazing.

I am very, very disappointed at Minidisc's early demise. Sony had nobody to blame but themselves, however. They did a horrible job marketing it early, and it took forever for reasonable priced recorders to show up.

I've followed minidisc from day 1.. My first unit was an Aiwa AMD-100 (Inherited from my brother, actually, who jumped right on it. I chose DCC at first!) This was the Aiwa analog to Sony's MZ-1. I think it was around the $1000 mark when it first came out. It was considered a breakthrough when Sony came out with the $299 home recorder + portable combo, but that took about SIX YEARS, and by then it was too late.

If you look at what's happened in comparison, the last units were no bigger than a minidisc itself, almost!

The discs recorded in MD mode on the MZ-RH1 still play great on the AMD-100 - and they sound better ON the AMD-100 than the discs that the AMD-100 records itself (the wonders of how Sony worked backwards compatibility improvements with Minidisc.)

http://www.tapeheads.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10956&stc=1&d=1265761215

http://www.tapeheads.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10957&stc=1&d=1265761215

Hi tcp100,

Thanks for posting pictures of your MD players/recorders. Have you recorded many mix MDs? So, you stuck with this great digital format while it evolved throughout the years. DCC didn't compare to MD technology sound-wise or for versatility? Which portable and home unit would be the ultimate to own?

Nando.

[R.Daneel]

Hello guys!

Sorry I haven't been much online - too busy for anything these days! I have fixed the camera so will upload some pics tonight if I don't fall asleep. Regards!

[4tified]

Hello guys!

Sorry I haven't been much online - too busy for anything these days! I have fixed the camera so will upload some pics tonight if I don't fall asleep. Regards!

Can't wait! Bring em on *Hi5*

[Elite-ist]

Hello guys!

Sorry I haven't been much online - too busy for anything these days! I have fixed the camera so will upload some pics tonight if I don't fall asleep. Regards!

Hi Antun,

I've actually spent alot of time watching the Winter Olympics coverage, so I've been a little lax on the forum during the evenings. Plus, this beautiful weather we've been having in Squamish and Vancouver, has kept me outside for most of the day. I unwrapped my Buick GN, yesterday, for a short cruise around town and I can't wait for Spring to begin.

Look forward to your pictures, later.

Nando.

[tcp100]

Hi tcp100,

Thanks for posting pictures of your MD players/recorders. Have you recorded many mix MDs? So, you stuck with this great digital format while it evolved throughout the years. DCC didn't compare to MD technology sound-wise or for versatility? Which portable and home unit would be the ultimate to own?

Nando.

Nando, I actually stuck to both. I have a DCC-951 sitting right here next to my Onkyo Hi-MD. I like DCC - a lot, and have lots of DCC gear, but Philips dropped it like a hot rock so quickly that you can barely maintain the stuff anymore. MD, being around a lot longer and a lot fewer moving parts, genearlly is easier to keep running IMHO.

The latest Type-S DSP decks definitely sounded the best to me; I use a MDS-JE480 along with my Onkyo Hi-MD and the MZ-RH1 for most minidisc stuff.

For portable use, the MZ-RH1/MZ-M200 is still available, and hands down the best thing out there.

I also have a MD car deck somewhere in my pile of stuff; it was actually used all the time in my car in college. It was the perfect car format for the day; why it never caught on I don't know.. (Well, I do - Sony has no idea how to market a product.)

[hawkster27]

Also, if you do find yourself a good mds-jb940, don't think twice. It is a truly superb deck with atrac type-R, better built than mds-jb980 (which is a newer model), has more inputs and outputs, has really good caps and power transformers inside, has a Sony dedicated variable coefficient digital filters and a genuine 24bit ins and outs. It may not be better built than Sony's ES series but when sound is concerned, I'd say it is one of the top 5 minidisc decks ever made.

Other models are Sony's ES series but they do cost really a lot of money. But if you could get an mds-ja20es for a good price, that'd be awesome! It is maybe a litttle better than mds-jb930/940 in sound but is better built. But, it doesn't have a keyboard input like the 930/940 so it is a bit complicated to enter song titles. But hey, it has a minidisc drawer instead of slot!

Regards!
RD

I am the original owner of a JB940, and just bought a clean, used ja20es for $155. Just had to have that tray loader and separate digital/analog input levelers. And yes, I'd say sound-wise they are thisclose.

Any tips on getting the most out of the ja20es, Daneel?

[Head_case]

I just picked up a Hi-MD home deck - it cost me about $400, and then about $70 in shipping from Japan. They don't sell them in the US, but they're still available (at least for a while) in Japan.

I got the Onkyo MD-105FX from here.. Better price than AudioCubes2:

http://www.hovanfue.com/store/products/ONKYO-MD%252d105FX-Hi%252dMD-Recording-Deck.html




How are you getting on with your deck?

It looks fabulous. I'm using my Sony MZ-RH1 as a part of my hi-fi with its line out.

[R.Daneel]

Hello guys!

I know you are waiting for my pics probably... just didn't have enough time. I don't have enough time to eat even! I will do it as soon as I get the chance.

[4tified]

Hello guys!

I know you are waiting for my pics probably... just didn't have enough time. I don't have enough time to eat even! I will do it as soon as I get the chance.

Uh yeah! Hurry up with them pics will ya?

J/K

Life is busy, so whenever you get the chance *wink*, looking forward to it!

[R.Daneel]

I always keep my promises so here ya go guys!

The machines are:

Sony MZ-NH1 HiMD recorder: has a beautiful magnesium alloy chassis, 3-line backlit remote control with scrolling dial, dsp type-s and hd digital amplifier that sounds really good and when compared to non-hd amps in Sony players, offers more detail, sounds more smooth and more relaxed but very focused and lively. Soundstage is wide enough and generally, the response is wide but slightly harsh in the highs. Bass is excellent - deep, solid and fast, not boomy at all. I don't use any kind of EQ. Battery life is very good and the player itself is a masterpiece of micro engineering and design.

Sharp IM-DR420H: this is an mid-level recorder by Sharp which has all the inputs - mic, optical and line in but no line out really. Has remote controller, very simple and effective interface. Also, net-md capable. Sound is a bit bland, but even more so when comapred to Sony. Now Sharp in this time of age was considewred to be the best of the MD players with their 1-bit technology but frankly, while it may be true when compared to same priced Sonys of the time, there is no comparison to the aforementioned NH1. It jsut sounds better than the Sharp in every way. The sound is considerable more pleasant when you turn the EQ on the Sharp and sounds more lively then. But it also makes it sound unnatural. Sony doesn't need any EQ to sound great and also has line out for better amplifier. Sharp is nore in-your-face kind of soundstage with good detail and solid bass, but lacks subtlety, coherence and just plain music. In any case, it blows away the newest iPod without any doubt.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2k3tkz.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/acetd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2hwhdf9.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/6srrdc.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2s9ayo6.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/bj7k7t.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/16h092.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/fco18g.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/96vu4j.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ykggph.jpg

[Head_case]

Love that magnesium chassis :)


Here's mine; MZ-RH1 - portable, porty, not so portly with a porty amp!

Superb warmth and resonance and timbre from strings!

[R.Daneel]

Love that magnesium chassis :)


Here's mine; MZ-RH1 - portable, porty, not so portly with a porty amp!

Superb warmth and resonance and timbre from strings!

Hey! Thanks very much!

tell me, what amp is that and what headphones/earphones do you use. In the pic you see my OTL headamp. I don't have a portable amp but am considering one as I'd like to use it with the minidisc as well. The internal 24bit dac has much potential to it though you will agree that the amp does a good job. RH1 is a great machine and technically is identical to NH1. All the ICs inside have the same marks. It was always puzzling to me why Sony didn't implement such technologies in the RH10 and that generation of recirders that came after the NH1 and were predecessors to RH1. As it turns out, the RH1 and NH1 are above all others by a large margin. I have had a RH910 that is thge same as the RH10 and also has a digital amp but sounded anywhere near the NH1. Not even by a long shot!

The RH1 is the best portable MD rcorder ever made. And I do mean EVER because they are no longer manufactured sadly. I want one! Once you get NH1 and RH1, you can say you have the best of MD and be done with it.

One time ago, I did this recording of Metallica's first album. Not that I am a fan but my nephew is and has an incredible turntable system annd just got that LP. I recorded it straight from the pre-amp into the NH1. Honestly, the recording sounds amazing. The dat I had simply didn't have any chance there. Enter the 24bit MD analog recording mode! That is why MD is actually perfect for recording from analog sources, not digital. as strange as it seems, but it is something I have found to be true over couple of years.

Your RH1 is just as capable as the NH1 though less expensive but has more manual on-hand controls so that is always useful. If it had a digital out, it'd be perfect!

[Head_case]

Hey! Thanks very much!

tell me, what amp is that and what headphones/earphones do you use.


Hehe ~ I use the unusual TTVJ Milletts Portable Hybrid (Tube) amplifier in the photo shown. It's one of the few gorgeous porty tube amps which really make the superb sound of the MZ-RH1 even more lush and rich than it already is. You can listen to sparse chamber music, and it has an incredible presence and soundstaging. No siblance or highs - just superb. Better than my Musical Fidelity X-Cans v2 desk top amp (and more pricey too).

Also getting a Headamp Pico Slim in a few weeks when Justin gets them sent out. I'm travelling a lot so I get to spend less time at home with the hi-fi. This is the best option for travellers :)

Definitely agree about the MZ-RH1/NH1s being the pick of the crop. I used too think my Sharp MD-MT888H was superb. The MZ-RH1 really outclasses it for the sheer beauty of its DAC/digital amp. Pure quality.

The only disadvantage I'm finding about the MZ-RH1, is when I'm recording, editing name/titles isn't as easy as on the Sharp. I'd love an Onkyo FX-105 for that reason alone...

Interesting hearing about your turntable system experience. I'm using a Michell Gyrodec, and I prefer my mini-disc + portable amp over the turntable + Musical Fidelity X-Cans v2.

I wouldn't mind a NH1 too :D

[4tified]

I wish I had an RH1 (I've been eyeing it for two years now!) But they are so freakin' expensive! I can get about 4 R909's for the price of an RH1. The fact that the RH1 was Sony's last Hi-MD recorder doesn't help the bargain margin either.

So the built in amp is awesome like you say?

Now I want one even more!

Thanks for the pics!

[Head_case]

I bought my MZ-RH1 for £150 boxed/new from the Sony Centre - it was on sale.

Realised it was a real bargain, but no one in the shop seemed old enough to know what a mini-disc player was lol. Everywhere else here sells it for around £190 new.

Yes - the Sony MZ-RH1's digital amp is really high end. It blows my 4G video iPod to smithereens (that iPod is so ccccrrrrap! in comparison). It's better than some of my portable CD players too (Panasonic). The best thing about it is, the huge recording potential.

I've learnt how to MD copy from vinyl direct: no computer required. I can MD copy from Spotify rather than having to carry my computer around :D, and can MD copy from tape, CD, live concerts. Cassette tape or vinyl LP ---> Digital wav. file is easy - just copy to mini-disc and upload via Sonicstage. I haven't learnt how to transfer tape cassettes via digital program so this is a great way to do it.

[R.Daneel]

@Head case - so fellow head-fier eh? Great! I didn't even know they made portable tube amps! That idea itself just blows me away - how does it translate to battery life? Tubes operate at high voltages so I guess the batteries don't last very log... Also, what headphones do you use with that amplifier? I was considering the D3 Cobra because of the internal DAC so I could use it with a portable cd player.

@4tified - hey friend! Look, RH1 is a great machine but you can probably get NH1 much cheaper. They sound identical - really. They use the same dsp, dac and adc chips and mic preams as well. No difference in the sound. I have seen them go for under 100$ so that is acceptable. One thing you need to consider though, always ask if the units have any dents on them. If they do, do not buy it. Dent means the unit has fallen to the ground and given the extreme strength of magnesium alloys in general, it would take one heck of an impact. But more importantly, the internal wirting magentic head will most certainly be damaged from such a fall. Though I must say, the latest Sony recordfers are extremely durably and several falls of my RH910 didn't damage it in any way. But it is always better to be safe than sorry. The NH1/RH1 amp is a design that was developed by Sony but not for battery efficiency. I have had players with all kinds of digital amps inside - Panasonic d-sound, sharp 1-bit delta/sigma and others. Sony is the only one that sounds natiral to me - it may not sound impressive at first listen but in the longer run you will hear it is the way it should sound and that everything else sounds very unnatiural and unmusical. The proof for this is that all players - Kenwood, Sharp, panasonic and others sound terrible when the dsp is off. That is a defficiency in the design of the converters and amplifier. Sony sounds rich and lush even with everything turned off. Using the dsp changes things but doesn't influence the general performance really. Sony has always been mysterious about specs of the components apart form Sharp that boasts 24bit recording, but nlooking at the service manual and searching for the parts was easy. It uzses 24bit a-d converter with the ability to sample at 96kHz. This feature is not used in the MD format but says a lot about the quality. Sony type-s is the most powerful dsp technology and is in fact 24bit with intelligent reallocation algorithms for bits. This technology was used only by Sony as they didn't sell this to anyone. Sharp used their own dsp technology. And finally, you have the d-a converter which is 1bit but has 24bit quantization. So let's see here - 24bit a-d, 24bit dsp, 24bit d-a... must be a 24bit unit then... Yes! That is precisely what it is and any anlog recording will make 24bits like on the good home decks. That is why the NH1/RH1 are the best recorders available. Besides, in the 2004 there was some talk about Sharp HiMD recorders but they never saw a light of the day. Sony was the only one ready to invest in the technology and spend milklions on research and development just to give our MD fans one final poducrt that would finally be all we ever wanted. It was the MD's last stand and is a wonder of micro mechanis and engineering - even the most complex Aiwa walkman is nothing compared to an md walkman.

[4tified]

@Head case - so fellow head-fier eh? Great! I didn't even know they made portable tube amps! That idea itself just blows me away - how does it translate to battery life? Tubes operate at high voltages so I guess the batteries don't last very log... Also, what headphones do you use with that amplifier? I was considering the D3 Cobra because of the internal DAC so I could use it with a portable cd player.

@4tified - hey friend! Look, RH1 is a great machine but you can probably get NH1 much cheaper. They sound identical - really. They use the same dsp, dac and adc chips and mic preams as well. No difference in the sound. I have seen them go for under 100$ so that is acceptable. One thing you need to consider though, always ask if the units have any dents on them. If they do, do not buy it. Dent means the unit has fallen to the ground and given the extreme strength of magnesium alloys in general, it would take one heck of an impact. But more importantly, the internal wirting magentic head will most certainly be damaged from such a fall. Though I must say, the latest Sony recordfers are extremely durably and several falls of my RH910 didn't damage it in any way. But it is always better to be safe than sorry. The NH1/RH1 amp is a design that was developed by Sony but not for battery efficiency. I have had players with all kinds of digital amps inside - Panasonic d-sound, sharp 1-bit delta/sigma and others. Sony is the only one that sounds natiral to me - it may not sound impressive at first listen but in the longer run you will hear it is the way it should sound and that everything else sounds very unnatiural and unmusical. The proof for this is that all players - Kenwood, Sharp, panasonic and others sound terrible when the dsp is off. That is a defficiency in the design of the converters and amplifier. Sony sounds rich and lush even with everything turned off. Using the dsp changes things but doesn't influence the general performance really. Sony has always been mysterious about specs of the components apart form Sharp that boasts 24bit recording, but nlooking at the service manual and searching for the parts was easy. It uzses 24bit a-d converter with the ability to sample at 96kHz. This feature is not used in the MD format but says a lot about the quality. Sony type-s is the most powerful dsp technology and is in fact 24bit with intelligent reallocation algorithms for bits. This technology was used only by Sony as they didn't sell this to anyone. Sharp used their own dsp technology. And finally, you have the d-a converter which is 1bit but has 24bit quantization. So let's see here - 24bit a-d, 24bit dsp, 24bit d-a... must be a 24bit unit then... Yes! That is precisely what it is and any anlog recording will make 24bits like on the good home decks. That is why the NH1/RH1 are the best recorders available. Besides, in the 2004 there was some talk about Sharp HiMD recorders but they never saw a light of the day. Sony was the only one ready to invest in the technology and spend milklions on research and development just to give our MD fans one final poducrt that would finally be all we ever wanted. It was the MD's last stand and is a wonder of micro mechanis and engineering - even the most complex Aiwa walkman is nothing compared to an md walkman.

I like the look of the RH1 better, but if the NH1 is going for around $100 as you say, I may take the plunge!

Thanks for the info man! Let's see what I can track down. May be some more pics coming soon *thumbsup*

[Head_case]

@Head case - so fellow head-fier eh? Great! I didn't even know they made portable tube amps! That idea itself just blows me away - how does it translate to battery life?

Lol - no escaping from head-fi. Such a fantastic place for trades and things too :)

The TTVJ Portable Hybrid is very unusual - exceptionally low current draw for a tube amp. 40 hours on a single charge! Isn't that special!

I use a combination of headphones; the Ultrasone Pro 900s'; the Sennheiser HD25 (Mk II); and the Grado 125s. The Grados don't benefit as much as the Sennheisers - surprising given the HD25IIs are easy to drive.

A NH1 is really only $100?! That's incredible :)

[Naknut]

Ok guys... stop it!! The last thing I need is a portable mini disc player but you wont stop talking about how cool they are and how good they sound and the pictures show how great the machines look!


I have to have one.*drool*

[4tified]

Ok guys... stop it!! The last thing I need is a portable mini disc player but you wont stop talking about how cool they are and how good they sound and the pictures show how great the machines look!


I have to have one.*drool*


Go with your gut....you know you want one!

Durable and extremely veratile in every way imaginable.

Take a look at a service manual for one of Sony's MD decks/portables and you'll be amazed at what you find. These aren't throw-away units. They are meant to be serviced and revived should anything ever happen. Calibration specs, board layouts, part numbers, test modes that can render your unit dead if not adjusted correctly, etc.

Buy one, even if it's a cheaper model. You will grow to love it.

[R.Daneel]

Go with your gut....you know you want one!

Durable and extremely veratile in every way imaginable.

Take a look at a service manual for one of Sony's MD decks/portables and you'll be amazed at what you find. These aren't throw-away units. They are meant to be serviced and revived should anything ever happen. Calibration specs, board layouts, part numbers, test modes that can render your unit dead if not adjusted correctly, etc.

Buy one, even if it's a cheaper model. You will grow to love it.

Yep, Sony invested a lot of knowledge in this technology.

There was one other point I wanted to make. About the DSP technology... Well, we all know that MD was introduced in 1991/92 and at that time the industry that manufactured ICs just didn't cut it as the design of the Sony engineers was too demanding for the computational speed of those years. That is not a secret. However, little is known that no one ever managed to use a DSP with floating point calculations which is standard today in all processors. At that time, these processors were not available in the designed parameters - voltage, power drain and size. So, they had to use fixed point calculations. Through a decade of development, there was no way Sony could have switched to floating point when everything they did and invested in was on the fixed point systems. It is considered that if this was not the case, the DSPs could have been a lot more powerful and powerful enough to encode/decode any format they might eventually come up.

But even so, with more than decade of r&d Sony was able to make the maximum out of the technology they used so in the end you have a remarkable proprietary hardware designed for one purpose. These chips are not meant for anything else - consume very little power and still are able to do everything in real time without any hickups.

Also, the good thing about MD is that it can't really be made cheap so there are always some minimum demands on the hardware - primarily the converters and this is one of the reasons MD will always sound better than an average or even the best mp3 player. I mean, the way how the latest iPod Touch sounds is just a disgrace.

[Nick Sunn]

Where to find more info & MD forums
http://forums.sonyinsider.com

Where to buy blank MD's
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-GVz2h6X7U7x/g_15020/MiniDisc.html

Where to View OWNERS MANUALS on pdf of nearly every MD deck or recorder
http://www.minidisc.org/part_Manuals.html
just click on the particular model

STICK TO MD DECKS AND MD RECORDERS PRODUCED IN 1997 OR LATER.
ABSOLUTELY TRY TO AVOID ANY MADE PRIOR TO 1996!
1995 may be OK.

Definitions for this Discussion:
DECK = Home Recording Deck
RECORDER= Approx Cigarette Pack Sized Portable Recording Deck with both
a stereo mic input(plug in power) as well as having a separate line input

***SHARP Models ONLY for RECORDERS!
Why? Better MIC INPUTS, Can ADJ the REC LEVELS WHILE RECORDING and Sharps have Better , More Accurate "VU" Meters


A little about ATRAC:
ATRAC = algorithum based analog to digital process SONY developed and licensed out

There were TWO DIFFERENT ATRAC DESIGNS:
ATRAC (also known as ATRAC1 )
and
ATRAC3
****ATRAC2 was an engineering developmental experiment that was never issued!

WHEN YOU SEE THE MANY DIFFERENT EVOLUTIONS OF atrac LISTED:
example ATRAC 4 and various other numbers quoted & published in articles/threads on the web, IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT GENERATION OF ATRAC (also known as ATRAC1 )
So technically it should be ATRAC1 4th Generation or 4th edition, if you will.

http://www.ethnicdance.net/audio_conversions/mini_disc/md_technology_issues.html

http://www.claudiosantori.it/soffitta/minidisc/index.asp
http://www.sonicstudios.com/mdms722.htm
http://storydynamics.com/Articles/Professional_Development/record_w_sharp_sr80s.html

*reelspin**reelspin**reelspin*

[Nick Sunn]

*reelspin*
I've owned MD machines since 1997.
I've made probably over 2000 MD's since then.

80 min MD's:
You notice that owners Manuals make no mention of 80min MD's.
That is because they did not exist until nearly 1999 or So.
Every MD Machine accepts them fine.
It is similar to the fact that only 74min Cdr existed until about 2000 when 80min Cdr became avail.
An 80min MD will give you up to 80min 59sec
cdr 80 only gives approx 79:57
ditto: 74MD gives 74:5x

I found that the Sony MD (MDS-JE510 produced in 1997) was far superior in my opinion to any cassette recording not using quality dbx equipped deck.
I certainly did not agree with Ken C. Pohlmann's MARCH 97 Stereo Review article which pitted the TEAC V-2030S with proper calibration, METAL TAPE and Dolby S noise reduction VS SONY MDS-JE500. Ken showed using sonogram graphs that Tape was more accurate than MD. Possibly true but , my take is without perfect calibration, Metal Tape , Dolby S, etc, tape doesn't come close. It is a matter of opinion. No matter , MD does a marvelous job of sound reproduction and with working MD decks available for next to nothing ($25 to $40) and blank 80MD avail. cheap, it may be worth giving a listen even if its 15 years too late.

I bought my JE-510 (essentially the same quality as the JE-500 tested) back when blank 74min MD's first became priced under $5 each in 1997.
Over the winter of 1997-1998, I transferred hundreds of aging master tapes of mine from tape thru a Realistic 12 band EQ to MD. Sure, those tapes were nothing famous, just bands that I played with, recorded in the 1970's and 1980's, in clubs, halls, theatres, and festivals, mostly in the USA.

The great thing about MD was that you could get instant EQ comparison between different EQ settings and very slight REC LEVEL changes.
More Specifically What I Mean:
12 band Realistic EQ (12 left /12 Right SLIDERS) in between the tape deck and Sony MD deck.
Precisely set tape/pitch speed. JVC TD-W709 was used for non dbx cassettes. For the dbx cassettes, I played them in all three of my dbx decks and went with the most accurate, unless the tape box specifically had noted on it what deck I used originally.
Anyway EQ was monitored and adjusted based on what my ears heard through my quality stereo system.
I'd record a short segment of a song or a brief portion of something with a particular EQ setting and levels (MAKING DETAILED NOTES ON PAPER OF THE LEVEL SETTINGS & SLIDER POSITIONS) THEN, Do it again with changes, Do it another time with slight level or EQ changes, etc.
PLAYBACK, FLIP THE KNOB OR HIT THE REMOTE and boom you'd get an instant comparison, as the first EQ would be on 1) the next on 2) the other one on 3)
In just the second it takes to flip the knob, INSTANT comparison. NO REWIND OR FF NECESSARY!
Hit button and erase the track(s) and set the EQ and Away we Go!

You can also easily edit out things between songs, excess talking or crowd noise, etc.
The ease of use, EDITING, MOVING TRACKS, ERASING & RECORDING is amazing!

I could also type in USEFUL INFO for each track TO BE DISPLAYED, such as
Jumping Jack Flash 2/21/75 Brillhouse Theatre, Springfield, 1st set, CLAIRE WALSH guests on lead vocals & B3 organ
How cool is that, archives that info.
For Sound Quality, Instant Track Access, Media will not significantly degrade and perfect for my archival stuff.

I loved it in 1997 and still use it today, even though progress has given us other possible better alternatives. Gotta love MD.

I see no point in using the later availible Lp2 and Lp4 speeds that became available when the new ATRAC3 system technology allowed such with only a slight loss of quality for using Lp2. Lp4 is noisy and only useful for voice.

I still use my SHARP RECORDERS to record and review my live gigs. Yeah it very ancient technology, but it still works fine.

Hi-MD (a different topic entirely) came out in JAN 2004 and really made for a truly great recording and archival format. It wasn't around when I transferred my stuff. I've had so much fun with the old MD stuff over the past 13 years, I haven't moved on to the "better" stuff. Its only MD but I like it.*reelspin**reelspin**reelspin*

[close652]

*reelspin*
I still use my SHARP RECORDERS to record and review my live gigs. Yeah it very ancient technology, but it still works fine.

I also use a Sharp portable for recording live shows.
For the home use I prefer tapes.

[R.Daneel]

Well in my experience, MD in general offers good fidelity. Especially the portable players - they sound great on all types of music and a re efficient and truly portable. But in absolute terms, a high quality cassette deck with a good tape will be as good or better than an MD deck. With MD, the loss of ambience and the whole irestriction in the high end is always present regardless of the quality of the midrange and the bass. In some ways a 24bit MD recording will sound better if recorded from analog sources then if you would record it onto a CD. The editing possibilites and the fact the media is virtually indestructible are undoubtedly one of MD's strong suits and as a walkman afficionado, blast me for saying this but MD is the perfect portable format in my opinion. Offers great fidelity in all occasions, is uncomplicated and user friendly.

Oh yes about your JE510 deck. I don't think it is the same oneas the JE500 as the JE500 was version 4 and the JE510 is version 4.5 I think which means adaptive algortih technology. It also has a 6 second time machine vs the 2 second in the JE500.

Regards!
RD

[Nick Sunn]

You may be correct about the MDS-JE510.
I assumed that since the Owners Manual that came with it new from SONY when I bought it in 1997 has
MiniDisc Deck
MDS-JE500
MDS-JE510
--------------------------
thus the manual applies to both models.
It did not differentiate or provide detailed separate specs,
just Specifications
--------------------------------------------------------

I won't argue that cassette can sound superior to MD.
It is my opinion that only on a dbx deck with dbx on to record.
Yes, tape sounds great too, without any NR, or even Dolby but in my opinion and ears, there is too much noise sometimes and you can't get near as good as S/N ratio without dbx.
C= at best 78db with type4 on a great deck, just doesn't do it for me.
Might as well go no dolby and accept 56db or so.


Even the most basic tape deck from the 1980's is capable of making good recordings, assuming the levels are set best.
The entry level, low buck ($75 a circuit city in 1984) SANYO RD 7 will make good recordings, even without using Dolby, Just N/R off
Its S/N ratio is 54 OFF
and S/N with B is 62
Just to prove a point to some young musician friends of mine. I pulled out the old SANYO. (lowest end deck I own, but still good one for proper speed and decent playback)
In 2008 , I used it to record live at a small outdoor amphitheater, loud rock show, my group was part of with younger groups opening. I took some really low buck Realistic 33-1060 Omni pencil Electret Condenser mics (two) and put an extension cord to elevate them about 20 feet high , sort of close in to the stage since they are omni. Those old 33-1060 cost about $14.95 new in the early '90's and have just old 1/8 connectors and second connection for on/off switch as designed for old tape recorders(dictation) but they have a great flat freq resp and are decent enough mics for the purpose. Anyway also recorded with my SHARP MD and its set up and other digital set ups, as well as someone's mp3 device.
The SANYO recording really surprised the kids. It smoked the mp3 recording.
Low end tape deck from the 80's with dolby OFF and TDK SA tape.
And even using basic mics. Its all about how you set the levels and how good mic placement, and such. Obviously MICS and P/A sound will play a HUGE factor. Other mics could possibly do better.
NOTHING IS WRONG WITH TAPE. That was the point of trying to show the kids that if they aren't recording their shows, they are missing out, because maybe, their parents or uncle have a quality cassette deck that they can readily use that will give them a decent recording at No Cost until they can afford their "dream" digital set-up. These kids thought that tape would only produce the results like a micro-cassette recorder sounds or an old telephone answering machine...they had no clue. They thought it had to be digital to sound good. I said with better mics and little better deck and precisely set levels and it could be better. They were amazed.

[R.Daneel]

LOL!!! Nick, I am one of those kids you know! Your Sanyo deck is probably older than I am!! But still, in high school I used to do all the live shows on a Technics RS-BX501 auto reverse cassette decks. IU always used dolby B as it worked great on that deck. Oh, the good old times...

But anway, the hiss doesn't bother me. I have the mid-late 90s decks and they are all dead quiet. The tapes are quiet as well and no NR is needed. But I usually use dolby S as it is flawless on the Pioneer and Aiwa cassette decks. Completely silences the hiss and sounds most natural. There are way worse things that can happen than hiss!

MDD is instant, simple and uncomplicated. Sounds great too but ultimately canbe outperformed by tape gbut admitedly, at very high cost like everything in life.

About the JE500/510, these are similar decks yes. I have had the JE500 and the 510 came out the next year so it was a replacement model for the JE500. The JE500 came out after Sony introduced their top flight JA3ES machine with dolby 3.5. The JE500 was a cost reduced version so it did offer a similar converter albeit cheaper designa nd analog parts. The JE510 imo set a standard for mid-priced decks in the 90s and early 00s and Sony did it best. There was nothing that Denon or Kenwood could offer tooutperform it. The more expensive models from Kenwood and Denon, however, could on ocassion or two.

I still love MD and use it. I was always impressed with the technology and every time I went to Sony store and saw a new MD brochire I was in heaven. The units were always so exoensive that they kept me window shopping for months.

[shadowlord]

I think i add my MD experiences as well.

When you read the following please keep in mind that i was a big fan of the format. That changed over time.

I first bought a new Pioneer MJ-D707 home deck as my first mini disc device. (this was about 12-13 years ago)
On my stereo system back then it sounded as good as the cd or lp source from which i recorded. I was still studying back then so i bought a panasonic portable player to listen to my discs on the bus.
The portability and the soundquality was amazing. I retired my old walkman for the time beeing.
After i got my first car it took me about a year to buy a MD car stereo for it. It was a Clarion unit and again the fidelity and portability made MD the superior media for the job.

I was at civil service when the panasonic portable player died.
The Pioneer home deck started acting strange shortly after.
It wasn't able to finish the discs from time to time.
I managed to record some discs before it finally failed.
The case houses my PC based jukebox today.

I sold the car with the MD car stereo shortly after.

Since i had a lot of mini discs i bought some used gear.
A Sony deck and a Kenwood portable.
The Kenwood died shortly after i bought it.
I bought another portable unit.This time a used Sony TOTL recorder.
It died after 2 month.

Right now i still own 2 working sony decks and about 200 disc which i recorded over the years.

But to be honest. The small mechanics of the units are prone to failure
So if the decks should fail i surely won't buy a replacement this time.

It was a great format back in it's day. The fidelity is way better than the average 128Kb MP3. ( In fact when the MP3 boom started i kept telling everyone how much more i liked my MD format)

But now since it's possible to play lossless files on your stereo with a pc based setup and even my portable player which i use while biking supports lossless flac files, i see no need for the MD anymore.


I don't want to discourage anyone to try out the MD but please keep in mind that the delicate mechanics may fail over time.

[shadowlord]

I should add that i still own most gear i had back then when i bought my first MD deck. Contrary to the MD devices the CD-player, the tapedecks and the walkman still work fine after all the years.

[R.Daneel]

Hi shadowlord!

Don't worry about discouragement. I have been discouraged about cassette many times and still stuck with it. I am glad that I did beacause now finally all of my decks are functioning as they diod the day they came out of factory.

As for MD reliability, I can't say that I had your experiences. In my case all the units have behaved admirably and come to think of it, none of my units ever failed on me. The most versatile are the HIMD units that's for sure and they are the most reliable as well. I dropped my Sony RH910 many times during playback and it just kept going. The NH1 unit is the best MD portable ever created together with the RH1 and I do not expect any problems. It is 6 years old now.

The trouble with the used units is that you never know if the seller took good care of it. To any future MD users - stay away from the units that have physical damage like scratches or worse - dents!

Your Pioneer MD developed a TOC problem which was a common problem, as well as problems with recording heads.

I tried all kinds of mp3 players and the only ones I liked were the cowon ones that had flac support an BBE sound. But, none of them had the neutral and subtle detailing of the NH1. The HIMD units also read lossless formats but you have to convert it to their proprietary Atrac lossless format in the Sonicstage software. So, in absoluite terms of sound, MD player can still hold it's own.

Oj yes, I will not fail to mention the ipod sound quality. The newest generation (like the ones before) are simply horrible sounding devices. They are so bad that using a half-a-grand pair of high sensitivity earphones won't help - a s a matter of fact, the flaws in the sound will become even more obvious. The cheapest player I had was a little Chinese cool sources mp4 polayer that cost 20$ and sounded fantastic compared to the latest 400$ touch. What a disgrace - I really hate Apple for that. The "invention" of ipod is equal to the invention of hot water.

[Eldorado]

I've got a JE500 deck. I bought it in 96 or early 97. It still worked perfectly the last time I used it a few months ago. I loved Minidisc, carried on using it as a main recording (copying CDs, that is) source and frequent listening source until around 2001. It was a big format in Japan and Asia, until cheap recordable CD came along. Still unbeatable for its editing, I believe, although in my case editing meant wiping a disc and putting something else on it - a more convenient form of CD RW.

I sort of regret that I've neglected my MDs in recent years, they're sitting there right next to my CDs but I never seem to make time to play them. Too many other sources to play with - DAT, open reel, CD and vinyl.

[NAD613]

I've started using my Pioneer MD deck again. Minidisc is much better than recordable CD's. I used mine quite a bit 9-10 years ago to record stuff I had on cassette so I wouldn't wear the cassettes out. Recorded some LP's, too. Fantastic for editing, no matter if you're recording tapes, radio, records, etc... IMHO, it's really a great format.

[shadowlord]

The editing capabillitys made the MD the perfect media to record LPs.
You could record a whole LP and edit it later without any loss.



I tried all kinds of mp3 players and the only ones I liked were the cowon ones that had flac support an BBE sound. But, none of them had the neutral and subtle detailing of the NH1. The HIMD units also read lossless formats but you have to convert it to their proprietary Atrac lossless format in the Sonicstage software. So, in absoluite terms of sound, MD player can still hold it's own.


I think that some will agree with me that sony portables (mostly the more expensive ones) had better sound quality than the competition.
I noticed this with walkmans, discmans and minidiscmans.
I think they designed the output stage very carefully with a decent headphone amplification.

I wonder if this is still true for the digital file players. Is there any Sony player with Flac support ?

[R.Daneel]

Not that I know of. But lossless or no lossless, it makes very little difference in real life really. MP3 at 256 or 320kbps will be more than fine. These players don't have analog line outputs nor digital ones so using a portable amplifier makes no sense. But Sony still makes some fine sounding players though I think the sound comes second in the matter of todays audio devices.

Sony had some amazing cassette players in the past yes. I have several of them. Okay, more than sveral actually:) But, other manufacturewrs like Aiwa and Panasonic offered some amazing players as well and it was always down to a brand or style preferences. You couldn't go wrong with either one.

I was a big MD lover several years ago. Then I read about the sound of Sharp of MD players with their Auvi digital amplification that used 1-bit processing. Everyone thought it was so much superior to anything that Sony introduced. Then I got a Sharp IM-DR420 which was a mid priced model but had all the technlogy from their top models. Soundwise, it was probably better than a Sony that was priced roughly the same. Whereas Sony sounded a bit more open and neutral, Sharp sounded more detailed. But, Sony then introduced the HiMD range and the NH1 had the first generation of the HD digital amp. Nothing HD about it really as it was a mere class-D amplifier. Still, the player sounded much more detailed and transparent and offered a true noisless background with lack of hiss. Very deep bass and slightly rounded highs but quite natural and gentle on the ears. Sharp had nothing that would beat it.

I will be doing a walkman topic sometime this month with my best players of various sorts.

[lovretta]

*eyepop*

Read here so much stuff i didn't know before... And now i have something completely new, but was with me for two years :)

I bought used Sony MZ-N707 Type-R portable. I had few mp3 players, all of them were terrible in sound quality.

I didn't know too much of the mini disc format. Back then i learned the basics, and got disappointed that it is "yet another" lossy psychoacoustics-based format.

I liked the fact i could connect it to pc via USB. Open MG jukebox didn't want to install for some reason, then i went on the web, found out about Sonic Stage, downloaded that.
I was doing all my transfers to it via USB until this evening...
Actually i haven't used it much, because all three modes for me were bad sounding, all three had artifacts in them. Not weird, since LP2 is 132 kbps and LP4 is 66 kbps. And SP mode transfer via sonic stage is as i found out, not the way to go, as it does it in some sort of "work-around" way.

But then i read what R.Daneel written, and went to try it! Recording via analog input. And wow!! *eyepop* Is this my device?
I can't believe i haven't tried it before!

Few things i missed, does Type-R dsp feature 24 bits processing?

And also, RecLevel, there is AutoRec - is this some sort of peak limiter? I used manual RecLevel, set it so it peaks at second-to-last mark on the peak scale.


EDIT. Added picture of the portable..

[Tinman]

I decided to read this thread, as I have a bunch of MD decks.

Love the format, and still have an original Sony MZ-1.

It's a shame that it never caught on, I thought it was one of the more marvelous things to come out of Sony.

[NAD613]

I decided to read this thread, as I have a bunch of MD decks.

Love the format, and still have an original Sony MZ-1.

It's a shame that it never caught on, I thought it was one of the more marvelous things to come out of Sony.

While it never caught on with mainstream consumers, it still found a niche audience, mostly among home recording enthusiests. Tascam still makes a Minidisc deck.

[Jo6Pak]

i've had a sony je-520 (i think) deck stored in a closet for years, along with an mz-11 (i think) portable. just can't find any practical use for them...

[R.Daneel]

Hi lovretta!

Yes, type-R is 24bits resolution. Even your N707 has a 24bit ADC so it makes for a nice sound indeed. NetMD was not a necessity in my opinion but I guess they tried to bring the format coser to the MP3 generation. You have done the right thing by choosing to record with the levels set manually - just make sure the 0dB is not lit up often. If it's only for a fraction of a second, you're good to go.

I was intrigued by your sudden revealation so I took out my player and played a little. I hooked the player to a portable cd player with optical output and set the minidisc into recording standby mode. During recording you hear the sound coming directly from the source and convertet to analog form with the MD's DACs. The sound from the MD was so much better than straight up from the portable cd player's line output. Obviously, the MD has much better converters and much better amplifier stage.

*eyepop*

Read here so much stuff i didn't know before... And now i have something completely new, but was with me for two years :)

I bought used Sony MZ-N707 Type-R portable. I had few mp3 players, all of them were terrible in sound quality.

I didn't know too much of the mini disc format. Back then i learned the basics, and got disappointed that it is "yet another" lossy psychoacoustics-based format.

I liked the fact i could connect it to pc via USB. Open MG jukebox didn't want to install for some reason, then i went on the web, found out about Sonic Stage, downloaded that.
I was doing all my transfers to it via USB until this evening...
Actually i haven't used it much, because all three modes for me were bad sounding, all three had artifacts in them. Not weird, since LP2 is 132 kbps and LP4 is 66 kbps. And SP mode transfer via sonic stage is as i found out, not the way to go, as it does it in some sort of "work-around" way.

But then i read what R.Daneel written, and went to try it! Recording via analog input. And wow!! *eyepop* Is this my device?
I can't believe i haven't tried it before!

Few things i missed, does Type-R dsp feature 24 bits processing?

And also, RecLevel, there is AutoRec - is this some sort of peak limiter? I used manual RecLevel, set it so it peaks at second-to-last mark on the peak scale.


EDIT. Added picture of the portable..

[soundofvoid]

Just adding my experience...
I am a true MD believer.I enjoy the quality,ease of use,portability and editing capabilities of this wonderful format...
All my items are from Sony.I have an MD charger in my car,i have an MZ-R80 portable and at home i broke the bank by buying (new-not secondhand) the best that ever was made, the JA-555ES.
With the cheap prices of today for second hand machines i would invest only to ES decks especially from the 30/50/555/333 variety.
Their quality of construction is worth every penny.
My MDS JA-555ES weighs more than 15 kilos in original form!
Just open the (double) top and look inside:Your jaw will drop...
I am talking about double R-core transformers,massive PS section,separate compartments for digital /analog / PS section / and drive mechanism.
I never regret for buying it.
And the sound:just a tiny step back from my SCD-777Es.
When both are used as digital sources through my tubed dac,i would be hard pressed to spot any difference...it's that good!
All my MDs are ES type and i keep a stock to last me for years to come.
Lately i made another dream come true buy by getting from Japan the RM-D20P
(qwerty type table top remote)that is a gem to use when writing and editing MDs.
I also use in my attic and in my office two MD players made by Teac for their
Reference 300 mini systems.Both have served me well.
All i can hope is that i can keep them in good health for the years to come!

[4tified]

I have forgotten all about this thread!

Yes, the MZ-N707 sounds very nice for a minidisc recorder. Type R helps alot with the quality of SP recording, whether digital or analog. I didn't know it was a 24-bit DSP though! Awesome :-)

[4tified]

Okay, does anyone here have an MZ-1? I've never heard the first version of ATRAC, but am very curious as to how it sounds. Maybe someone can upload a track (in WAV format) so we can see the difference in quality between the latest Type R and ATRAC 1.0?

[R.Daneel]

The first version of Atrac was rather unlistenable if you sk me. In terms of quality the sound was very harsh, especially in the highs. The bass was okay but loss of ambience and a complete loss of soundstage and horrible imagig was simply not acceptable. I am not a collector so dont have the unit anymore but believe me- its nothing to get excited about. About the mds-ja555es... its a nice md deck bu regardless of its complexity, there are always things that could have been done better. The biggest downfall is its 16bit digital iteerface like on all Sony decks. And despite the general excellence of ES components, md technology was limited by the inherent design specs. Inother words, a more advanced codec would bring much more improvement since it was the bottleneck of the system. That doesnt mean the md doesnt sound good.

[4tified]

The first version of Atrac was rather unlistenable if you sk me. In terms of quality the sound was very harsh, especially in the highs. The bass was okay but loss of ambience and a complete loss of soundstage and horrible imagig was simply not acceptable. I am not a collector so dont have the unit anymore but believe me- its nothing to get excited about. About the mds-ja555es... its a nice md deck bu regardless of its complexity, there are always things that could have been done better. The biggest downfall is its 16bit digital iteerface like on all Sony decks. And despite the general excellence of ES components, md technology was limited by the inherent design specs. Inother words, a more advanced codec would bring much more improvement since it was the bottleneck of the system. That doesnt mean the md doesnt sound good.

Yeah, I figured I wouldn't be amazed by the quality, I have just never heard anything prior to ATRAC version 4, which my first MZ-R30 comes with. I guess curiosity is what's driving me. It's amazing how fast Sony advanced their codecs. The MZ-R2 is the only unit I know of that used ATRAC v2. The R3 went straight to ATRAC v3.

[R.Daneel]

Yes, the technology advanced pretty rapidly back then and with each new recorder you got a newer version of Atrac. It is my opinion that Atrac reached it's zenith with type 4.0 which, if my memory serves me well, was introduced in the MDS-JE500. this deck was massively popular back in 1996 an in terms of sound quality, it was as good as the previous type 3.5 deck - the MDS-JA3ES that was much much more expensive, given the fact it was an ES unit.

The version 4.5 was introduced in the MDS-JA50ES, the best MD deck ever by many. The cheaper, but still a very high quality unit was the 30ES that had only one power transformer. The 50ES had two in fact but regardless of what people thought - it was not a dual mono analog stage. One transformer was used for the digital section and the other for the analog one. Still, when type-R was introduced, it proved to be better than the previous versions.And not just that, it was now possible to make a cheaper and better sounding deck.


Atrac type-R was the first algorithm to feature the intelligent bit reallocation which made the conversion more efficient. Ultimately, it improved the high frequency response and with it, Sony introduced several new MD decks - including the MDS-JB930 which was a milestone product. It set the path and a new standard that all the manufacturers must follow, or be done with MD format. The new wide bit stream technology offered true 24bit recording from analog sources, though digital 24bit recording was not an option. Sadly, it never was in Sony decks.

The MDS-JA555ES is the ultimate MD deck yes. But the differences between this deck and some other and much cheaper type-R machines is due to the higher quality analog stage in the 555ES. So, does the 555ES sound better than a 20ES or a 930? Most likely it does since the DACs had separate power suppliy system. Will the 555ES make better sounding discs when played on other decks? Very unlikely! The limitation of the system was the system itself since anything that was possible with CD players in terms of analog circuitry was possuble in MD decks as well.

If you were to play an MD disc recorded on a machine with an older Atrac version on a type-R machine, it would sounds bland. In terms of recording capabilities, as far as digital recording is concerned, there are virtually no differences between MD decks with a same Atrac type.

[4tified]

So, when ripping songs via USB (say to my MZ-N707), is the player's internal ATRAC DSP used or is all the encoding done with the SonicStage app on the PC and then the stream just sent to the recorder to be written as data? Would I benefit (quality-wise) from recording using TOSlink so the internal ATRAC R encodes the music vs straight from the PC?

I really want to do some analog recording with the MZ-N707. Maybe from some cassettes or LP's. From past experience, ATRAC seems to keep most of the warmth when recording from an analog source.

[Scorpion8]

So, when ripping songs via USB (say to my MZ-N707), ....

Hey, I have one of those. Was just listening to it today at work. Actually I have four (4) of these various little Sony machines and can never figure out why they didn't catch on.

[Scorpion8]

Thought I'd chime in with 3/4-ths of my units. Left to right we have a MZ-NF520D NetMD unit with TV/weather/FM capability; a MZ-R500 MD-Walkman unit, and finally a MZ-N707 Net-MD Walkman unit. At work I keep a MZ-DN430 Psyc unit.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/IMG_0659.jpg

I have upwards of 20 NOS un-opened MD's, always scrounge for more, and perhaps a dozen used MD's that I have picked up over time.

[4tified]

Thought I'd chime in with 3/4-ths of my units. Left to right we have a MZ-NF520D NetMD unit with TV/weather/FM capability; a MZ-R500 MD-Walkman unit, and finally a MZ-N707 Net-MD Walkman unit. At work I keep a MZ-DN430 Psyc unit.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/IMG_0659.jpg

I have upwards of 20 NOS un-opened MD's, always scrounge for more, and perhaps a dozen used MD's that I have picked up over time.

Nice little units you have there. I chooose my minidisc over my iPod anyday. Takes a little more work, but the fidelity is well worth it.

[R.Daneel]

@4tified

Yes, when transferring the music from the computer, the conversion is actually done on the computer and only downloaded to minidisc. The DSP in the recorder can only do real-time conversion to Atrac. The algorithm is quite complex and there's some serious mathematics behind it. The main PU use in the computer is capable of floating point operation while the DSP in the recorder isn't. This makes a standard CPU much more powerful and faster when it comes to conversion. However, the DSP (digital signal processor) is a dedicated design specially designed for this purpose. Sony never made the specifications public but it is estimated at at least 24bits of resolution. The hardware itself is probably made by AKM though I can't be sure on this. In any case, even if you rip the music to a Standard MD format (292kbps) and transfer it to the MD, the MD recorder will do a far better job than the computer and though slower, the difference in sound will be more than obvious. You would ertainly get better results using the optical digital cable but that will depend on the SPIDF interface of your soundcard. Some soundcards have terrible outputs - very noisy and hissy so I suggest you try it first.

As for analog recording, I have been saying it for years but it is my opinion that an MD recorder does a better job this way than when using digital connection. There are reasons for this of course. MD was based on a CD standard though the method of data storage is quite different and so is the writing technique. Atrac being a complex algorith, this would represent quite a challenge for the internal circuitry. Therefore the MD uses processing that far surpasses the one usually found in a CD player. This means the resolution with which the incoming signal is processed is greater than the resolution of that signal. This gives the MD the ability to always "be ahead" of the signal to do the conversion in real-time. The sampling frequency remained the same (44.1kHz).

Now here's the trick and this is the explanation of why MD sounds as good as some people say when recording from analog sources. Being a 24bit architecture, there is no reason why an MD disc couldn't store 24bit packed data stream. The hardware is capable of that because the processing is done in 24 bits and the A-D converters can also achieve this resolution on most MD decks. So when you record an MD from an analog source, you've actually recorded it in 24bit.

This will be quite obvious when recording from a good turntable setup. Though the effects of compression are still obvious, the recording will posses the atmosphere and the air that would be absent if the recording was done from a similarly good recording but from a digital source.

The reason for this "analog superiority" is of course the internal MD structure. The MD decks do not have internal upsamplers by which they would be able to up-sample the incoming 16bit data into 24bit data. The samples are recorded as 16bit onto the disc. SOme MD decks actually do feature this technology but they are rare and there are also external upsamplers to be had. Most people wuld never consider anything semi-professional in their setup but some of these things really do work and some can bring truly serious performance upgrades to a digital source for fraction of the price of what some people spend on cables (I am not a believer in those btw).

Sony called this technology "wide bit stream" but people never really caught up on the idea. MD was a good format and I still consider it to be the ultimate portable format. When sound is in question, unless you are using a portable cd player with an optical output and connected to a portable headphone amp with an itegrated DAC (wow that was a long one! - and it weighs a whole bunch!), nothig can eat an MD player.

MD failed because it was too expensive to manufacture. You can't really make a cheap MD recorder because the format puts some serious demands on the hardware that is powering it and that costs money. The processor, multiple inputs and outputs with digital switching, the converters...

If the format wasn't discontinued, it would be interesting to see if Sony would implement internal upsampling and make it a standard. A couple of years ago I was really into this stuff and I read a lot of service manuals and looked up the parts on the internet. I couldn't find anything on the Sony's type-S DSP apart from the official info but I did find some rather interesting things on the converters. I don't remember the part number of course but I do remember the RH1 and NH1 converters were the latest generation at the time. They were made by AKm and were 24bit / 96kHz converters. In 2004, this was absolutely amazing and I wonder if Sony made the efforts towards making the technology more in line with studio standards. Of course the converters were locked to 44.1kHz SF. Mostly all newer Sony units have integrated sampling rate converters so that any incoming signal, either in 32 or 48kHz, is being conveted to 44.1kHz.

Blast me for saying this, but I have an ultra-rare Sony WM-550C walkman (dolby C and amorphous head with auto-reversse) with a box and everything and if there is someone that wants to trade for an MZ-RH1 MD recorder, let me know!

[4tified]

R. Daneel, you are definatley master of the minidisc. Your descriptions make me want an MZ RH10 or RH200 more than anything! Lossless PCM and ATRAC3plus would both be welcome additions in my book. If only they weren't so expensive!

Do you think they'll ever get cheaper?

I'm a cassette lover at heart, but I have a massive interest in MD technology as well. CD's are near worthless to me, despite their higher bitrates. The intricacy and quality of MD player/recorder components in general draws me in. The service manuals are proof enough that the equipment was not designed to be throwaway, but repaired and brought back from whatever issue is ailing it at the time.

Keep this thread alive! Anyone else have any input or units they'd like to show off?

[R.Daneel]

I will post some pics next week when I get better (hopefully).

But anyway, i don't think the TOTL models of the recent years will ever get cheaper. The RH1 was the only model in the line up that year so it is considered the last best MD recorder. I own an NH1 machine since new and when it came out, it was the TOTL model and in fact, more expensive than the RH1. So one might even say the RH1 is a lower cost version of the NH1, albeit with better screen and interface on main unit. NH1 had a much nicer exterior design made out of magnesium alloy and a much nicer remote control with a lot of control buttons, levers and dials.

But it was interesting beause you didn't need to buy the most expensive one. You could buy the cheapest one, still have all of the MD functionality and editing possibilities and a great sound to boot. It is true that cheapest MD units were far more expensive than majority of other portable players but none of them ever approached the flexibility and sound.

[Nick Sunn]

Major clarification is needed for those folks completely unfamiliar with MD and hi-MD.

Perhaps R. Daneel will elaborate.

I could explain it , but undoubtedly he is much more knowledgeable, I think.

The SONY MZ-RH1 is a hi-MD machine.

hi-MD is a Superior Format than CD or ancient MD! It is not a lossy format. IT WAS INTRODUCED IN JAN 2004 by SONY.
It is somewhat backwards compatible.
Although you can use old "ancient" MD (minidiscs) in hi-MD machines, you will only get approx 22minutes MAXIMUM on an ancient 80min MD.
I recommend that you use the hi-MD discs and use the hi-MD deck to its best capability.


Basically two totally different formats, its like comparing a 1910 Ford Model T to a 2011 Mercedes Benz, both have four wheels and are automobiles.
hi-MD has the best sound capability of any digital format (= to or better than anything current technology has to offer and is so far advanced over 16 bit CD or 20 bit CD technology)

You can purchase home hi-MD decks new from Japan. They are not inexpensive, probably approx = $500 - $550 US Dollars.
The blank hi-MD discs are approx $5 to $7 per disc.
I don't have hi-MD. My brother has hi-MD. He adopted hi-MD in 2004, as he does a great deal of top quality recording and live recording. He still loves hi-MD because the format gives you a master for archiving/saving (the hi-MD disc) .

Old, ancient MD is a good all a round format with its editing/erasing/re-using BUT IT IS COMPLETELY OBSOLETE when compared to full uncompressed 24 bit DIGITAL hi-MD, where ancient MD is lossy, 1/5 the info is kept and isn't digitally copied (Analog Out only).

So it is important to know which equipment the discussion is centered around! Ancient MD works well and you might enjoy it, it is DIRT CHEAP but It has some limitations and if you are after the absolute best format that gives you a hard copy of media (like tape, etc), then hi-MD IS THE WAY TO GO.
Sony's new PCM recorders are at least as good but you don't get the same hard copy of media like hi-MD offers.

Just remember ancient MD and hi-MD are like apples & oranges...

[R.Daneel]

Hi Nick! Everybody on this thread is perfectly aware of the hi-md so no clarification is needed. We have discussed the topic many times and this is not the only thread dedicated to md. However, your claims on the superiority of hi-md to any other digital format out there is quite frankly, outrageous. When talking about compression, every digital format is compressed. Analog wave form being compresed to a data stream- that is what it is. Hi-md is just as compressed and the uncompressed PCM (pulse code modulation) means that the data stream is not additionally compressed when recording digitally from cd. It retains the same bitrate. If hi-md was as good as you say, the only supporter of the technology,Sony, wouldn't have backed out and hi-md would be used in studios.

[steve_pan]

You can purchase home hi-MD decks new from Japan. They are not inexpensive, probably approx = $500 - $550 US Dollars.
The blank hi-MD discs are approx $5 to $7 per disc.




can you give us a link , would like to see them*thumbsup*

[4tified]

I have one pet-peave about minidiscs. The protective casing is awesome, something I think should have made CD's obsolete. The thing that gets me though is:

1.) The internal disc is protected, but dust still gets in and gets trapped. This happens no matter how clean you keep your player! The recordings end up skipping and I usually don't find out until later when listening.

2.) Circular scratches on top part of disc. The magnetic tracking head seems to leave light scratches on the top of the disc while in motion, indicating that it's too close to the disc. Any way to adjust this without breaking the arm? I know these may be susceptiple to shock, like a hard drive head, but I am not rough with these portable players. These are used minidiscs, so I guess I need to inspect them all by eye to verify if my recorders are doing it or whether the previous owner of these discs were careless.

Are there any commercial cleaners out there that will clean these discs or is there a way I can do this myself?

[R.Daneel]

can you give us a link , would like to see them*thumbsup*

Hi Steve!

Type in "onkyo minidisc" into the ebay search and you will find some. 500$ sounds about right yes. But these are decks that are part of Onkyo mini series and are not full-size components. There are no full-size components from any manufacturer in fact! You can only get these and some integrated mini systems and portables of course.

Minidisc was though up as a portable format from the beginning so the first units introduced to the world were portable units. They were quite large and expensive so most people never considered them. Sony kept the exclusive rights and only licensed manufacturers had access to the technology which was one of the major reason for the worldwide market failure.

[R.Daneel]

I have one pet-peave about minidiscs. The protective casing is awesome, something I think should have made CD's obsolete. The thing that gets me though is:

1.) The internal disc is protected, but dust still gets in and gets trapped. This happens no matter how clean you keep your player! The recordings end up skipping and I usually don't find out until later when listening.

2.) Circular scratches on top part of disc. The magnetic tracking head seems to leave light scratches on the top of the disc while in motion, indicating that it's too close to the disc. Any way to adjust this without breaking the arm? I know these may be susceptiple to shock, like a hard drive head, but I am not rough with these portable players. These are used minidiscs, so I guess I need to inspect them all by eye to verify if my recorders are doing it or whether the previous owner of these discs were careless.

Are there any commercial cleaners out there that will clean these discs or is there a way I can do this myself?

Hi!

As far as I know, there are no such cleaners. I have seen md-lens cleaners (don't even think about using those btw!) but haven't seen anything else.

You can try and clean the discs yourself. Remove the protective sliding conver and use cotton swabs to clean the surface of the disc. The shell is ultrasonically welded so you can't remove the disc without breaking the shell.

As far as scratches from magnetic head go, I really have some doubts about the causes of this phenomena. The magnetic head is in close contact with the magnetic surface of the disc yes but any movement that would be greater than what the electronics are designed to compensate for would certainly result in recording errors. But I did notice sometimes that when you press stop on the md player and pull the lever to remove the disc, the cassette ejects out and the disc is still spinning inside the cassette. Now, when the cassette is in the player, the disc is rotating on a magnetic bearing underneath the cassette so that the disc is always between the top and bottom cover of the minidisc cassette. Once you stop the playback the disc still spins and if you immediately press eject, the disc inside in longer held by the magnet and the disc surface might get in contact with the cassette and if the disc is still spinning, it might cause scrathes.

Can't be sure of this but I did notice this before though none of my discs ever failed to read or skipped. This might be cause of what you are sayingand if that is true, i recommend you press stop and wait a few seconds before you pull the lever or press eject on your minidisc unit. It will eliminate any chance of the deisc being scratched.

If the disc was scratched by the writing head itself, it would most certainly cause damage to the head itself. This usually happens if the recorder recievs repeated shocks during recording.

I never had any problems with neither of my minidisc recorders. Though players are probably better suited when out and about, my recorders never gave me any problems. One time I had a problem with the NH1 an one of the Sony blue-line minidiscs. The recordings would skip all the time but would work fine on my other recorders. Never figured it out but all the other discs work fine.

On the reliability of the format, as long as you follow certain rules, a minidisc device can last a very long time. I still see some folks that do a lot of interviews for the local radio stations using Sony MZ-R701 recorders. These recorders are almost 10 years old now and I wouldn't necessarily call field-work an easy life for any portable recording device.

[Nick Sunn]

*reelspin*
I don't know much about the hi-MD decks avail new in Japan or the merchants/vendors who offer them, SO REMEMBER BUYER BEWARE, Do Your Homework/Research before even thinking about such items, because you may have a host of issues such as Manual printed in Japanese and configured for the AC power output of Japan, etc.....

I simply heard someone talking, saying that they own one and like it, about six months ago. It was someone that I do not know. I simply spoke to him for about 45 seconds when I was at an event.

http://www.audiocubes2.com/category/MiniDisc/product/Onkyo_MD-105FX(S)_MiniDisc_Deck.html

http://forums.sonyinsider.com/index.php?/topic/19775-onkyo-md-105fx-himd-deck-review/

http://forums.sonyinsider.com/index.php?/topic/25254-wtb-onkyo-md-105-fx-or-md-133-hi-md/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S1xw-cJ6Gw

re: Sony MZ-RH1 hi-md:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BdP7bKB7bU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3pzrSYJmZ8&feature=fvw


and on SONY PCM-M10 currently approx $200 US street price new AND CONSIDERED BY MANY TO BE THE FINEST ALL AROUND DIGITAL RECORDER AVAILABLE TODAY! These (this and the 2 year older D-50 ) are the Replacement Technology for hi-MD ( and any ancient MD )
Great stuff too...
see:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10291362-1.html
http://www.l2pnet.com/stories/review-sony-pcm-m10-recorder-01122010

http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=69366318f9409dfcbf4c1c075d959f f7&board=11.0

[R.Daneel]

Hi Nick!

D50 and M10 are fine recorders yes but they lack the thing that made the mini-disc so popular and versatile and that is being able to edit your recordings anytime and anywhere. PCM-D50 is much more cabale than the M10 because it has better mics and much better preamps.

[Nick Sunn]

*reelspin*
sorry, that audiocubes2.c LINK above doesn't show anything,
but if
you GOOGLE: hi-MD deck
and see the audiocubes2 LINK there , just a couple from top and Click It, IT STILL BRINGS UP THE deck and shows a $549.99 price , good picture of the deck/complete list of features/and click on to see 5 reviews.
I have no idea why the link , that I put in the prev posting doesn't work. Sorry.
Simply GOOGLE: hi-MD deck

[Nick Sunn]

R. Daneel,
I DEFINITELY AGREE THAT THE SIMPLER/AND BETTER EDITING CAPABILITIES OF Ancient MD haven't been beat.

It doesn't get any better than the control layout of the SONY MDS-JE510 from the year 1997, though those JE-510 machines were prone to the Eject related problems.
Also it doesn't get any better than SHARP MD-MT-16 , MT-161, MT-20, MT-15 (all visually near identical)
+++ the great Sharp MD-MT821
and
other SHARPS like the MD-SR60, SR-50, SR-75 (all visually near identical)

the later SHARP MD-MT90 is great too but the buttons/controls and lcd display window are smaller, and aren't quite as user friendly, though still good

Go look at those models on the minidisc manuals page/or ebay/GOOGLE etc and you'll see that those MT-16, 15, 161, MT-20 were among the best control layouts with the MD-MT821 being just about as great from a button/control design standpoint and the SR-60, SR75, SR-50 series having great button/control layouts.

I've used a bunch of MD decks and the ancient MDS-JE510 has the best control layout for simplicity and ease of use despite that it is prone to Eject Mechanism problems.
I've owned a bunch of MD portables too, mostly recorders SONY & SHARP. The ancient SHARPS were worlds ahead of SONY for recording. I still have about four Sharp recorders but all the SONY recorders were given away. I did like the R-37sp the most, along with the R-55 from SONY's ancient MD recorders. The R-37 was newer than the R-55 but retained the older larger case/housing. They were all great machines. Had several others from SONY like the R-70 and R-91 and CK810 which had fm/weather band tuner that plugged but not cable of recording from FM. I still have my oldest SONY player only portable and it still works great, the SONY MZ-E3, which is all metal and has manufactured in July 1995 on the certification label. The sound quality of playback is outstanding, even that it is pre-1996.

I still love and use my MD to record and play, and also to record live.
There are newer, better, capabilities from the latest SONY PCM-M10 for optimum audio capabilities. I didn't say that everything is as simple, but the non lossy, direct digital feed/uplink, and not needing to flip discs, more than makes up for that. Great stuff, you can't deny that. Also at about $200 or thereabouts, its an amazing machine and its noise level overall and for MIC IN and LINE is possibly as low as ever made on any machine to date. Its popularity among the very serious "tapers" speaks for itself (PCM-M10)!

[4tified]

Hi!

As far as I know, there are no such cleaners. I have seen md-lens cleaners (don't even think about using those btw!) but haven't seen anything else.

You can try and clean the discs yourself. Remove the protective sliding conver and use cotton swabs to clean the surface of the disc. The shell is ultrasonically welded so you can't remove the disc without breaking the shell.

As far as scratches from magnetic head go, I really have some doubts about the causes of this phenomena. The magnetic head is in close contact with the magnetic surface of the disc yes but any movement that would be greater than what the electronics are designed to compensate for would certainly result in recording errors. But I did notice sometimes that when you press stop on the md player and pull the lever to remove the disc, the cassette ejects out and the disc is still spinning inside the cassette. Now, when the cassette is in the player, the disc is rotating on a magnetic bearing underneath the cassette so that the disc is always between the top and bottom cover of the minidisc cassette. Once you stop the playback the disc still spins and if you immediately press eject, the disc inside in longer held by the magnet and the disc surface might get in contact with the cassette and if the disc is still spinning, it might cause scrathes.

Can't be sure of this but I did notice this before though none of my discs ever failed to read or skipped. This might be cause of what you are sayingand if that is true, i recommend you press stop and wait a few seconds before you pull the lever or press eject on your minidisc unit. It will eliminate any chance of the deisc being scratched.

If the disc was scratched by the writing head itself, it would most certainly cause damage to the head itself. This usually happens if the recorder recievs repeated shocks during recording.

I never had any problems with neither of my minidisc recorders. Though players are probably better suited when out and about, my recorders never gave me any problems. One time I had a problem with the NH1 an one of the Sony blue-line minidiscs. The recordings would skip all the time but would work fine on my other recorders. Never figured it out but all the other discs work fine.

On the reliability of the format, as long as you follow certain rules, a minidisc device can last a very long time. I still see some folks that do a lot of interviews for the local radio stations using Sony MZ-R701 recorders. These recorders are almost 10 years old now and I wouldn't necessarily call field-work an easy life for any portable recording device.

I always wait until the disc has stopped spinning before ejecting it, it makes sense that the case could scratch the disc when spinning freely. Why don;t some of the portables come with a "brake" or reverse motor voltage to stop the disc so it can be ejected quicker? I know this is implemented in most CD players.

[shadowlord]

if anyone is interested in a good condition deck, please see my for trade thread :
http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?p=126079#post126079

[4tified]

if anyone is interested in a good condition deck, please see my for trade thread :
http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?p=126079#post126079

Looks like a nice deck!

However, I'm holding out for an MXD-D4 or D40.

R. Daneel, you metioned the "Wide Bit Stream" decks used a 24 bit DAC? How would a deck sound with ATRAC 4.5 with Wide Bit Steam vs a standard deck with ATRAC R?

I guess it depends on the component layout/quality in the deck?

[Dangerman009]

I bought my MDS-JB930 new back in '99, I think. A wonderful machine! It was my first and only MD recorder and represented a significant investment for me. I wanted it because it had a PC keyboard jack on it for editing, titling and what not.

If I understand correctly, if the input is analog it will record 24 bit. Yes?

[R.Daneel]

If I understand correctly, if the input is analog it will record 24 bit. Yes?

Yes!

The JB930 is a really fine deck and can be considered a mature MD deck since the improvements that followed were nowhere as dramatic as the one before it.

If I am not mistaken, the JB930 has a selectable digital output word-length so you can choose either 16, 20 or 24bit output. his enabled a complete 24bit chain, from the analog input all the way to digital output. This is what Sony called wide-bit-stream. Older decks could do only 20bit.

Some manufacturers (like Kenwood) took a further step forward enabling higher-than-16bit digital recording with their D.R.I.V.E. system (basically, an integrated digital resolution converter) which converted any incoming 16bit signal into a 20bit one or even a 24bit one one more recent decks. It is unfortunate that Kenwood dropped out of MD market (at least when talking about home components) with Atrac version 4.5. A type-R machine with this technology would never saw the light of a day unfortunately. However, it is possible to use an external resolution converter and then run the 254bit signal into the digital input on an MD deck. It will work and the converters are available on ebay - like the Audio Alchemy DTI (digital transmission interface) or some others. Even an el-cheapo will do the job with noticeable improvement in headroom.

[R.Daneel]

@4tified

Mostly all type-R decks have wide-bit-stream. Sony never made any annoucments about it but it seems to me it was a simpler way of elevating the sound quality without actually radically improving the Atrac algorithm. I believe that this was a necessity since a more complex algorithm would certainly require faster processor which at the time was either unavailable or too expensive to manufacture. It came into it's own with type-R processor. Generally, it was the prime problem with MD - manufacturing a processor that would be fast enough to drive Atrac. When the MD first appeared, the semiconductor industry was nowhere near ready for the tehnology and it wasn't until the development of type-R. That is why when talking about MD you can simply say a type-R generation or a pre-type-R generation.

All of this is hypothetical since MD was too expensive and ass such, unacceptable. but I think Sony really delivered in that respect, pushin forward the tehnology that had no perspective no matter how good it was. The HiMD can be considered their final tribute to the fans of MD.

You know, it would be awesome if we actually had a Sony engineer that was involved in the format on the forum. Anyone knows someone who was? :)

[Dangerman009]

*bananadance* That's great news!


If I am not mistaken, the JB930 has a selectable digital output word-length so you can choose either 16, 20 or 24bit output.

Where do I find this?

[Nick Sunn]

A Few More "Ancient MD" related resource/information links:

From Circa 1998:
http://mdf1.tripod.com/
http://www.radiowavesforum.com/rw/showthread.php?t=21799
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/05/07/gadgets-of-days-gone-by-sony/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/tech/ffwd/0997/minidisc.htm
http://engineering.purdue.edu/MSE/AboutUs/GotMaterials/Music/johnson.html
http://forums.sonyinsider.com/index.php?/forum/26-live-recording/
http://forums.sonyinsider.com/index.php?/forum/15-minidisc/

about some of the familiar "Ancient MD" portables:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/2389
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/media/i3d/01/A/man-migrate/MANUAL000024590.pdf
http://multimedia.journalism.berkeley.edu/tutorials/minidisc/recording/
http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sharp_MD-MT50+SR50+SR60+SR70+SR75.html
http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sharp/sharp_mdmt821_user_manual.pdf

[Nick Sunn]

Here Is A Link that shows how someone created their own custom MD labels:

http://www.swharden.com/blog/how-to-create-your-own-custom-minidisc-labels/

[R.Daneel]

Well, what do ya know... I made a mistake! I can't find anything about it in the manual but I did find in the JB940 manual. The -940 was the successor of the -930. I know that JA20ES has this feature and it is an older deck than the -930 so it really doesn't make any sense. Especially since I vividly remember reading about it.

In any case, try this:
1. press menu
2. use the jog-dial until you find "dout" (stands for digital output) amd press it
3. select the desired bit-length and confirm

If the -930 doesn't have a "dout" in the menu, it is possible it is named differently. But if it isn't there, then it is likely the firmware did not support it. I've changed several parameters of my MD units in the service-mode but I would highly recommend against it since it is very easy to do something wrong and completely messing up your deck.

It's interesting but with little modification, you could add some features of the higher-end models in an entry-level machine.

The 2nd gen HiMD units were just terrible. They had a power output of 2mWpc and only pre-set EQ. Someone figured out how to solve it and suddenly you had 5mWpc and even custom EQ! Sounded much better indeed though generally, the 1st gen was much better.

[Dangerman009]

I don't have 'dout' in my setup menu. That's disappointing.

[R.Daneel]

Well, unless you are planning on hooking up your MD deck to a D/C converter that has no upsampler (mostly all do nowadays), it isn't such a big deal. The important thing is it will record in 24bit from an analog source. I always found the digital filter with variable algorithm to be quite fun.

[Glantoir]

I know this is an old thread but Elite-ist sent me a link and I have been avidly reading since yesterday.
R.Daneel... So much information and so clearly explained *worship*.

[R.Daneel]

Yes... I'm a hillbilly so there's no way I will explain it scientifically!!

Btw, just for the kicks, where do you guys get your discs? Is ther some online store you'd recommend?

[Elite-ist]

Yes... I'm a hillbilly so there's no way I will explain it scientifically!!

Btw, just for the kicks, where do you guys get your discs? Is ther some online store you'd recommend?

Are you out of discs, Antun? The Sony Store, here, was still selling them last year. You'll have to let me know if you need any, and hopefully the store still stocks them. Most of my discs were given to me by people who knew I had a player/recorder. I don't have many, perhaps 30.

Nando.

[shadowlord]

the end of an era

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20078001-1/sony-to-stop-producing-minidisc-walkman-devices/

[Akai man.]

Yes... I'm a hillbilly so there's no way I will explain it scientifically!!

Btw, just for the kicks, where do you guys get your discs? Is ther some online store you'd recommend?

In the Uk I buy new blanks from Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/TDK-MD-MiniDisc-10-80min/dp/B000HC4G9W/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1313522788&sr=8-3

and also new and used from the well known a*****n site.

Geoff.

[Nick Sunn]

Crutchfield *bigthumbup* is my current source for MiniDiscs.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-uLbZwG6poic/shopsearch/minidisc.html

Currently Crutchfield has 15pk 80min various color pack SONY MD's for $21.99
Crutchfield has 10pk Premium Gold 80min SONY MD's for $18.00
Crutchfield sells the single (1 pack) of Prem. Gold 80min SONY MD for $1.99


( A few years ago, I was buying them from J&R Music World and also from Crutchfield. Back then J&R had a good selection and back then had better pricing than Crutchfield. THAT IS NOT THE CASE NOW. J&R currently only sells single (1pack) of Prem. Gold 80min SONY MD and J&R Music World's current pricing is significantly higher than that of Crutchfield at this point in time (AUGUST 2011) )


------------------------
Just a suggestion for those of you:
I find NO REASON to select the Premium Gold 80min SONY MD's over the various Color pack SONY MD's.
I have some two thousand MD's of all brands going back 15+ years. I have only had two defective MD's out of any new packs. They were Fuji 80min from a 10pack purchased about ten years ago. Two were duds, they did nothing in any of the eight or nine decks that they were loaded into. Eight of the others were perfect as normal. Obviously a manufacturing flaw in a production batch. Fuji's otherwise have performed flawlessly as others, although , I probably only have purchased less than 50 Fuji's. The other names of the majority of my MD's are SONY, TDK, Maxell, Memorex. Mostly SONY but I purchased a bunch of TDK & Maxell MD's in 1997/1998/1999.
I probably have a few no name MD's like hi-space or something that I got from others along the way.

I've got several hundred of the very early SONY MD's from the early nineties that are gray and plain in color and have the writing upside down versus the later ones from 1996 & later. A bunch of 60min and 74min MD's.
Most Of My MD's I never attached the factory labels to the live recordings or rehearsals, just the Labeling & Dated tracks. The MD's that are albums or my own compilations of artist/groups are mostly labeled and tab protected by pushing in the sliding tab.
I've got so many MD's that they are in boxes, shoeboxes in file cabinets, all over the place. I still love the simplicity of the format. I've got about six or seven portable MD recorders, mostly SHARP models with mic inputs. I've got a couple of SONY MD home decks that I bought new way back when and some others picked up a few years later.
Good format. I thought that in 1997 when I had a couple of brand new decks. I still like it today. One of my classic cars still has the indash MD deck that operates a cd changer, 13 years or so since it went in there. Obviously, there are simpler and easier car solutions, and better solid state PCM SONY DIGITAL RECORDERS That aren't Lossy, but MD still works.

[R.Daneel]

Thank you guys for all the links! I will be sure to check them out.

I still have 20 something Sony premium discs I got from a Sony store here. Unfortunately, the store doesn't exist anymore and the company that took over doesn't sell any more minidiscs or tapes so I have to find new sources.

Of the discs I like most I would mention the Sony premium and TDK RXG.

Has anyone noticed any differences soundwise between different discs or do they all sound equal to you? I have some scans of MD comparisons so I'll upload those later today.

[Glantoir]

I've got maybe 60-70 mds mostly Sony Premium & 74's.
I have 3 decks and 3 portables all Sony. I've been lucky enough to always get a few mds with each purchase!
Of the 5 units only one was bought new.

[R.Daneel]

Hi Pat! Which decks do you own? I had a chance to get an MDS-JA50ES but the seller became weird on me, stared calling me for all kinds of things... that's what happens when you try to be friendly.

[Glantoir]

Hi Antun, My decks are a JB930 a JB730 and a JE480.

[Glantoir]

I've just been reading the last few posts here, especially Nick Sunns, and it reminded me of my first MD experience

I bought my first MD in 2003 it was a Sony MZ R700 and deal I got about 20 discs (all Hi-Space) I then bought the Sony JE480 new.
TBH they kinda sat there as there were other things going on at the time.

A year or so after that,I started listening to and buying vinyl again and discovered MDs make great analog copies from vinyl.
I also use the JB930 to do unattended recordings of radio programmes

[R.Daneel]

Oh great! The -930/730 are good decks and as far as I can see, identical in specs though -730 has limited connectivity and lacks the variable digital filter. Habe you noticed any differences in sound quality between the two? They are both type-R and probably use the same converters but I wouldn't bet on it. Since -930 has a variable coeff filter, it is a dedicated IC rather than an integrated part of the DAC like in other Sony MD and CD machines so it's possible there might be differences in playback quality. I will have to take a look at the service manuals to make sure.

How would you campare the -730 to your -480?

[Glantoir]

For me, both the 730 & 930 are pretty much alike except as you pointed out,the 730 does not have the digital filter or keyboard connectivity (which is really handy and its a pity it wasn't standard on more MD decks)

I really like the JB930 and it gets most use.

The JE480 is silver plastic finish and although it sounds good and has the newer Atrac type S, I am fickle about it and use the black units more.

I recently sold my old JE 510 and I actually reckon it made slightly better (to my ears anyway) analog recordings from vinyl than the JB units.

[R.Daneel]

Are you serious? I doubt JE510 was nearly as good as the JB930. One look at the power supply and that would be enough to qualify the -930 as being much superior. Why did you sell it and kept the -480?

The -480 is plasticky yes but I think it has some useful features like MDLP which is good for recoeding radio broadcast for longer pšriods of time.

[Glantoir]

Yes the 930 is definitely a better deck alround.
But I really should explain what I meant, a while back I was transferring lots old and scratchy vinyl to disc and found the 510 was really forgiving and the resulting MDs were very good to listen to.
The 510 had to go because of its habit of turning itself on at will among other things :)
As I said I'm fickle about the 480 but I do use it for LP2 compilations for listening on my MD Walkmans.

[Elite-ist]

Nick Sunn has great contributions to this thread, as usual. But, I certainly didn't realize he had that many machines!

I haven't had enough experience with different brands of mini disc blanks to know which does a better job in recording, so I look forward to any information you have in that respect, Antun. It would be nice to see pictures of the cases posted of a few different brands.

Nando.

[Dazen1]

Great thread AND I don't even have an MD recorder!

I see blank MDs from time to time in charity shops. If anybody needs any then I'd be happy to look for them.

[R.Daneel]

I've created a new thread about the MD media and their differences. The scans are rather large but I think good quality.

http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?p=167281#post167281

[Glantoir]

Great thread AND I don't even have an MD recorder!

I see blank MDs from time to time in charity shops. If anybody needs any then I'd be happy to look for them.

I have a spare Sony MZ R900 you can have if you like. Its a bit tatty but works fine and then you will be a card carrying MDhead *yes*

[Dazen1]

I have a spare Sony MZ R900 you can have if you like. Its a bit tatty but works fine and then you will be a card carrying MDhead *yes*

I will politely decline but I do appreciate your kind offer. Thank you.

I did consider getting into MD and DAT back in the day but decided to concentrate on my primary source (which is CD).

Nonetheless, I'll be following your Traveling Mini Disc thread with much interest. *thumbsup*

[Glantoir]

No problem Dazen1, and thanks for your interest in my project.

[Glantoir]

Some Hi-Space MDs

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/Hi-Space.jpg

[Nick Sunn]

A few more comments on Minidiscs:

Ebay can be your friend for finding used MD's and SHARP MD Portable Recorders (which are superior to SONY Portables because of better "VU" meters & ability to adjust the REC Level while Recording live with Stereo MIC) Other than that, SONY PORTABLES are just as good.

SHARP portables are the Best Bargains Around.
(Best Source is Ebay sellers in UK )
why England? Well, not very many SHARPS were sold here in USA. There were a huge number that did make it over here when CONCERT TAPERS purchased them Used/New and got them from Europe/Japan/Australia where these machines sold in huge numbers.
They were "tapers'" go-to concert bootlegging machines from 1997 thru 2003. THEY ARE CONSIDERED OBSOLETE NOW AND NO LONGER USED BY 99.3% of tapers who now use SONY PCM M-10 & SONY PCM D-50 24 bit digital recorders which are solid state and are not Lossy.

Concentrate on Sharp models like the MD-MT-16, MD-SR60, MD-SR75 , MD-MT90 that simply accept AA batteries.
(they all use the 5v 800mAh power adapter for house current, which also functions as a Rechargeable Battery Recharger for the other SHARP models that have Rechargeable batteries)

Expect to find these SHARP Portables for approx $5 to $25 today in AUGUST 2011.



****YOU ALSO WANT TO OBTAIN A SONY HOME MD DECK in addition to a SHARP Portable. Why? Well , because Playback of A Portable thru a Hi-Fi Stereo System IS NOT AS CLEAN SOUNDING because of the compromise in the way that the LINE OUT is 1/8 stereo shared with the Headphone Output. SONY portables share this also, although models like the R-37 have a separate 1/8 stereo line out , IT STILL ISN"T AS CLEAN AS A HOME DECK RUNNING PROPER RCA OUTPUTS.
+++The PORTABLES MAKE AMAZING RECORDINGS USING THEIR LINE IN, AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN SOME EARLIER MD HOME DECKS++++
just plan on playback thru a HOME DECK for stereo system & best listening!

Some of the Portables have very advanced Atracs that are improved over SONY Atrac1 Version 4 and Version4.5 though those are so good it is gonna be impossible to really tell.

GET A PORTABLE THAT HAS ONLY SP (regular speed highest quality)
No need for Lp2, or Lp4 and net capability (If you really want that, just use a modern ipod, zune, zip drive etc and not MD)
Also, never use the MONO only capability of 1997 era machines as it is worse and only good for speech, as it doubles the time but gives Unuseable music standards.

Check these Ebay numbers for examples currently out there.
I don't know any of the sellers and will not be bidding.
I am not any of them, either.
300586452691 SR75
190562227156 MT16
260836512416 SR60
280723594327 MS722
220833648424 MS200h
replacement battery for MS200h see 400231234326
120764431912 MS702
280723566508 sony r37

[Nick Sunn]

USED MD's are Just AS GOOD AS NEW MD's

It is claimed that they can be recorded & erased a MILLION TIMES assuming WEAR /Damage don't take its toll.

I've Recorded On & Erased the same MD at least 65 times and it functions exactly like a NEW MD.

The Only Thing That I Have Found That Will "RUIN" a MD is Attempting TO RECORD using a MINIDISC DECK or PORTABLE That IS KNOWN TO BE BROKEN. It results in a corrupted MD. You might get this MD to be useful , but it might exhibit a problem like a blank space between(in the middle of) a recorded track, or just stop at some point.
That is the only thing that I have found that will "RUIN" a MD.
Never Re-use a corrupted MD, just toss it in the trash.
IT ISN'T WORTH A FLAWED RECORDING OF SOME ORIGINAL RECORDING or DEMO. Sure, If You Are Simply Recording A CD, LP or Tape, you can insert a good MD and start over, but if its a live original recording or even a live FM bcast etc, well, you sorta flubbed it, by using a corrupted MD that you thought might work perfectly.
Obviously, if you were to thoroughly test and check the corrupted MD to see that it functioned perfectly by making a test recording and it performed fine, then you'd certainly be OK.
Other than a known BROKEN DECK and RECORDING WITH THE BROKEN DECK...
the only other way to RUIN an MD would be throwing it into a fire, or a woodchipper, or super-gluing it or something absurd which wouldn't be considered a NORMAL occurance.

USED MD's are FINE. Just be REALISTIC and only pay a reasonable amount for USED MD's . ($0.65 per used MD in a batch of them is a REALISTIC MAXIMUM as you can purchase MD's new for very little cost, see earlier post) Obviously, if you find a batch of them with unique recordings that you love, like master concert recordings of Paul McCartney, or Rolling Stones 1999 tour, etc....

Portables that have only LINE IN capabilities such as SONY MZ-N505 for example...... these machines with only LINE IN can still be utilized for RECORDING LIVE WITH MICROPHONES. You simply have to build a homemade "BATTERY BOX" (google: BATTERY BOX & how to build)
Essentially it is a simple circuit with a 9V Battery that POWERS A STEREO MICROPHONE thru the LINE IN of the Unit.
Plug the homemade "BATTERY BOX" into the LINE IN and connect the stereo microphone into the BATTERY BOX.
Concert tapers swear by BATTERY BOX thru LINE IN as it allows for greater SPL capabilities of the stereo microphone and allows for a very loud concert enviroment (the kind that will cause you Hearing Damage--think METAL concerts). This will allow it to not get the BASS DISTORTION and "brickwalling" that normally could occur once certain limits are reached.
It gives better space before those LIMITS are reached.
The battery box method provides more power to the stereo microphone than the PLUG IN POWER on those models equipped with a MIC IN.
For Normal, not Extremely Loud Live Music, one might need to construct a preamp style battery box to more or less match the mics input signal, otherwise the recorded levels might peak Too Low, even at Max Rec Level.
The Other, Proper way to RECORD LIVE with a Portable Unit that only HAS LINE INPUT would to be to CONNECT A MICROPHONE MIXER and MICS.

****Portable Recorders (SHARP or SONY) ARE GREAT because you can carry them in your pocket and go over to a friend's house and hook it up to their Hi-Fi Stereo system just as you would an OPEN-REEL or CASSETTE DECK and record his LP's, CD's, OPEN-REEL TAPES, or CASSETTES, or perhaps an FM broadcast.
You simply connect the RCA to 1/8stereo patchcord to the LINE IN of the MD Portable and SET THE "VU" Record Levels and off you go.
It is also a handy gadget to catch your buddy's gig at the pub. Simply go to DIGIKEY in Fall River MN and order a couple of WM-55A uni Panasonic elements for about $3 each and wire them up SIMPLY TO A STEREO 1/8 plug. Get some feet of cable.
Essentially: The back of the MIC elements have 2 solder puddles.
The One that connects to the perimeter of its housing IS THE GROUND.
THE OTHER ONE IS THE ONE YOU WIRE to Left connection on the 1/8 stereo plug FOR WHAT WILL BE THE LEFT MICROPHONE.
Do The SAME FOR THE OTHER Mic Element, WIRE THE SOLDER PUDDLE THAT IS AN ISLAND to THE Right Connection on the 1/8 stereo plug as IT WILL BE RIGHT MICROPHONE.
Then take the Grounds from both the LEFT & RIGHT Mic Elements and connect them both to GROUND of the 1/8 stereo plug.
YOU JUST BUILT A FUNCTIONAL STEREO MIC which is powered by PLUG IN POWER of your Minidisc machine(redMIC INPUT)
Digikey also has the WM-61A which is OMNIDIRECTIONAL and said to be among the best mic element of its type for approx $3 each.
Omni mics generally require one to be closer in and elevated away from chatter/talking. Uni mics will function better from distances greater than twenty feet away and will sound closer to the stage than omni's from that distance and greater. Omni's generally get a flatter, truer sound without EQ. These are simplizations/generalizations that can be completely wrong depending on a huge number of variables.
Try it. Easy to build cheap functional stereo mic.
It won't equal an Audio Technica AT-822 but it will certainly function very well.

[Nick Sunn]

*bigthumbup*MAKE A USB POWER SUPPLY FOR SHARP MINDISC RECORDERS*
from youtube
One Person Explains How to do it. It is brilliant.*bigthumbup*
Since Nearly All SHARP Portable Minidisc Recorders use the same 5volt 800mAh Power Adapter/"WALL THINGY" as Electric House Current Power & For Charging The Rechargeable battery if the model is so equipped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v53k2RCT-lA&feature=related

----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
Should you wish to build a simple STEREO MIC that is powered by the Red MIC IN of your SHARP or SONY portable recorder.....
(the plug in power from your MIC IN provides the voltage to power the STEREO MIC--------that is why the input is colored Red as that is the universal color of a stereo mic input that provides the necessary PLUG-IN-POWER )

Unidirectional Panasonic elements (two are needed)
WM-55A103
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9961-ND


two WM-55A103 elements will make an UNIDIRECTIONAL STEREO MIC


=========
two WM-61A elements will produce an OMNIDIRECTIONAL STEREO MIC
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9925-ND



+++++++
PERHAPS YOU SHOULD BUILD BOTH TYPES AND USE TEST THEM AND USE THEM ACCORDING TO WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES/ENVIROMENT DICTATE or RUN 2 Machines with Mics set up differently..
+++++++

Simply A Suggestion:
Perhaps get a black or navy blue Baseball Cap
You'll notice vertical seams that go up the sides of the front of the cap that are just wider than the brim of the cap.
Perhaps, split the thread stitching slightly approx 1 or possibly 2cm so that you can stick the wired mic elements on THE RIGHT & LEFT SEAM, near the brim on the outer edge of the lower front of the cap.
The Mic Elements will appear as black dots not much larger than this tape
spinner*reelspin*and it will be Invisible. Pinch the seam closed like a closed pocket to get past security in the Arena/Coliseum etc.
Open and pull the Mics so that they just are unobstructed but flush.
Lower the approx 30 inch mic cord from beneath the hat and run it behind your ear and down to your lap or pants pocket.
It helps to wear a Black golf shirt or Dark Navy Blue Golf shirt and use a cord that matches. You may want the cord to be beige/tan for the first six inches as it might blend better with your skin tone, or perhaps brown if that matches better as you want it to match close to your flesh tone of your neck, and then the remainder can be covered in black electrical tape to blend with a black or dk blue shirt. Optionally you could run the wire beneath your shirt but that isn't a smart idea in my opinion.
You also need a $3 tiny penlight from Walgreens or other drug store. Enough Blank MD's. It helps to use different colored ones to be able to differentiate between the discs. Don't worry security ain't gonna bother you. You should have seen the size of the small recorders of thirty+ years ago. You need not stay perfectly still. Just don't shake your head like a headbanger or do it between songs during applause.
Make certain to turn the HOLD button on if you plan to stick it in your pocket after you get it set and running so that buttons can't be pushed.
Remember you'll have to release the HOLD to make Level Changes if you do in fact activate the HOLD slide button.
Fresh batteries are a must. Extra AA batteries & plenty of MD's and monitor or have someone monitor the time to change MD's like flippin the Cassette in the old days. Try to do it when one song just ended during the crowd applause/talking.
here is a typical hat that could work:
http://shop.mlb.com/index.jsp?productId=1879163&CAWELAID=113500712
An all black Atlanta Falcons cap is what an old pal of mine wears, that or a very dark blue Ga Tech cap.

[R.Daneel]

Hi Nick!

I have had quite a few Sharp MD units and my experience is this: they are good quality recorders for live applications assuming microphone input with plig-in power compatible microphones like the Sony -MS957. However, Sony machines usually outperform them with line-level input signals from, say a mixer stereo output. Not only that, top tier Sony machines outperform the Sharp units even with microphone recording and this is especially true with -NH1 and -RH1 recorders (still talking SP mode here).

In addition, the playback quality of Sharp units was always regarded as being the best in the industry. This is completely untrue and using a good source and proper headphones (I would stress the word "proper" here) will reveal that. The whole "Auvi" digital amplification talk never lived to my expectations. The units sounded bland, cut off in both extremes and more importantly, anemic in the dynamic sense. people found a word for it so they called it "analytical". It was instantly apparent to me it had nothing to do with analytical properties or being neutral but rather a completely deficient frequency response that sounded simply unnatural. EQ improved things considerably but like all quasi-EQ systems (the real one being controlled by active crossover network) it added coloration to the mid-range, especially in the vocal domain. Some might like since it adds a certain presence but still, it just sounds unnatural to me.

Similar comments apply on entry and mid-level Sony machines or any other machines. However, Sony's top models are something else. My advice to anyone is to either get an -NH1 or an -RH1 and forget about anything else. Without any equalization, they offer wide dynamics, excellent extension in both directions without the highs being too restricted. The lower end is tight, foused and has some real meat on the bone so to speak and is extremely fast. If class-D amps do something well, then it is the bass. The sound-stage is reasonably wide though the lack of ambiance is not quite overcome.

One other thing, Sony machines do allow for manual input level control during recording. Older designs lacked the ability to adjust it while recording through optical input and then the later models lacked the ability to adjust it in real time and allowed the adjustment to be done prior to recording. Like I said, I've had a few (okay okay...) and never had issues in that respect or any other for that matter. I like Sharp units but I never found anything special about them. I always thought it would be "the sound" but nah, it wasn't really. The level of sound quality of an average MD player is beyond most other digital or analog players. However, there are some cassette players that can beat even the best MD player and I suspect any portable player in general (yes Mr. HiFiMan it includes you too...) but on that some other time as I have a lot more things to do before I make the whole thing public. It will be on the forum some time this year.

In any case, thanks for your contributions to the thread Nick!
Cheers!

[Nick Sunn]

The last SONY portable MD recorder that was Introduced BEFORE THE INTRODUCTION Of the all new hi-Md format came out in 1/2004.

The last SONY portable MD recorder , before...
was Sony MZ-NF810CK (released in 2003---april 2003)
**This portable MD Recorder STILL DID NOT ALLOW A PERSON TO ADJUST THE RECORDING LEVEL WHILE RECORDING Live with A Stereo Mic and setting the Record Levels Manually!!
(you had to PAUSE the Recorder, just like every other SONY MD portable recorder)

+++++THE SONY hi-MD machines released in 1/2004 were the FIRST Sony's that allowed one to adjust the Recording Levels On The Fly...
++++++++++++++++++++perhaps there are other 2004 and later regular MD portables that Sony produced that do allow recording levels to be adjusted on the fly. Perhaps the 5/2004 mz-n920 which is listed as having both mic in and line in. I have never seen a mz-n920 in use. I'm guessing that they are extremely rare in USA and perhaps outside of Japan.
----------------------------------------------------------

It is my understanding that all the SONY portable MD recorders produced prior to the Introduction of hi-MD format , cannot record and allow changes in the record levels while the MD is "rollin". YOU GOTTA PAUSE IT BEFORE YOU CAN CHANGE THE LEVELS.
This is not ideal when recording Live.
Here is the owners manual for the (2003) MZ-NF810CK
http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/sony_mznf810_manual.pdf

See Page 79: "RECORDING CANNOT BE DONE CORRECTLY"
Cause: Recording Level Is Too Small To Record (when adjusting the recording level manually)
SOLUTION: "PAUSE THE RECORDER AND ADJUST THE RECORDING LEVEL"
SEE PAGE 34
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ANOTHER THING THAT WAS MOST ANNOYING the later SONY Portables that made them less USER friendly than SHARP models
WAS THAT late Sony models WERE SET UP TO RECORD OVER EXISTING MATERIAL ON MD'S (erase them)
they did this likely because most idiots didn't know or couldn't be bothered by learning what button to push to erase a minidisc with a portable unit.

This feature of latter SONY MD models REQUIRES THAT YOU TAKE A STEP TO TELL THE MACHINE TO "Record Without Overwriting Existing Material"

for example it became standard on some/most Sony MD portables around 2000
the SONY MZ-G750 for example
http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony_mzg750_manual.pdf

Page 31: "Recording Without Overwriting Existing Material":
IF YOU WISH TO AVOID OVERWRITING THE CURRENT CONTENTS OF AN MD, DO THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDURE..... (see p31 for the steps involved)
ALL NEW MATERIAL WILL THEN BE RECORDED FROM THE END OF THE CURRENT CONTENTS.
-----basically you gotta go Select "FROM END"

Again as all other pre hi-Md SONY MD portables...
SEE PAGE 33: Note: Adjust the Recording while the Recorder is in Standby Mode. You Cannot Adjust It While Recording
Standby Mode = Paused
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not saying that SONY portable MD's aren't great, because they were.
It is just that SHARP portable MD recorders were better than SONY's in many ways! I included this information so that others might benefit from this knowledge if they are thinking about getting an ancient MD portable recorder.
It is amazing we are discussing a "dead" /"obsolete" format , some thirteen years too late.

[Nick Sunn]

Again, ....On The Subject of Old MD portable recorders:

SHARP - Sharp portables have ONE BUILT IN FLAW in that when you are RECORDING LIVE WITH A STEREO MICROPHONE USING THE MIC INPUT and when you are Adjusting The Record Level from (21) to (20), the machine will record a brief BLANK SPOT (approx 1 sec Maximum) when the REC Level changes between those numbers on the recording level.

+++ All of the SHARP MD portables do this, I believe. I think it has been reported that they do.
SEE PAGE 13 of the SHARP MD-MT821 owners manual
http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sharp/sharp_mdmt821_user_manual.pdf

from page 13: "When the Recording Level Display is changed from MIC H 21 to MIC L 20, the sound will be interrupted momentarily. This is normal."

--------------------
Still it isn't a great thing, even though you likely won't be in the neighborhood of (21) or (20) if you are recording loud music.
You could be though depending on if you are recording something that is very quiet or if the stereo mic that you are using requires the levels to be boosted more to that range for whatever normal or loud music you are recording. At least you know that the silence spot will come when crossing through (21)~(20).
---------------------------------------------
This still beats having to PAUSE a SONY in the middle of a performance to REDUCE an OVERPEAKING over Zero REC LEVEL. In the SONY's you are faced with leaving it overpeaking until the song is over or PAUSING and Ruining the Song to adj levels. If it Overpeaks Too Long, The Recording of The Song Is Trashed Too. Nearly all take the wait until the song ends and hope the levels didn't go too long at +2.

The SHARP MD Portables also have been said to PROVIDE A GREATER AMOUNT OF PiP (Plug In Power) voltage to the RED MIC IN on Sharp MD machines versus what Sony's provide.
The greater PiP (plug in power) provided to the RED MIC IN allows the Stereo MIC to operate closer to its operational SPL limits than otherwise with lower power.
__________________________
Oddly, SONY didn't allow REC Level Adjustment On The Fly but Aiwa, a Sony subsidiary, I think, did allow this on at least some models
like the AIWA AM-F70
http://www.minidisc.org/amf70_user/index.html

See page 14-15 "You can adjust the recording level during analog recording and microphone recording"
see p 16-17 also

------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Newer, later "old MD" portable recorders from SHARP & SONY do have much better battery life for both Recording Time and Playback.
There are some drawbacks though. Buttons are multifunctional and smaller.
Controls aren't as easy to use . In the case of late SONY's, the erase/"write-over" issue.
Plastic cases
MD LP capabilities that aren't needed...
I have a SHARP MD-MT200 which has MD LP capabilities, Dolby H , presets like STUDIO, LIVE, STADIUM etc, and yet it doesn't record live any better than a MD-Mt821 or MD-SR60 or MD-MT16 or MD-MT90.
The Record button is so tiny it is about the size of this 0 . Yeah the size of that zero.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[macman007]

Again, ....On The Subject of Old MD portable recorders:

SHARP - Sharp portables have ONE BUILT IN FLAW in that when you are RECORDING LIVE WITH A STEREO MICROPHONE USING THE MIC INPUT and when you are Adjusting The Record Level from (21) to (20), the machine will record a brief BLANK SPOT (approx 1 sec Maximum) when the REC Level changes between those numbers on the recording level.

+++ All of the SHARP MD portables do this, I believe. I think it has been reported that they do.
SEE PAGE 13 of the SHARP MD-MT821 owners manual
http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sharp/sharp_mdmt821_user_manual.pdf

from page 13: "When the Recording Level Display is changed from MIC H 21 to MIC L 20, the sound will be interrupted momentarily. This is normal."

--------------------
Still it isn't a great thing, even though you likely won't be in the neighborhood of (21) or (20) if you are recording loud music.
You could be though depending on if you are recording something that is very quiet or if the stereo mic that you are using requires the levels to be boosted more to that range for whatever normal or loud music you are recording. At least you know that the silence spot will come when crossing through (21)~(20).
---------------------------------------------
This still beats having to PAUSE a SONY in the middle of a performance to REDUCE an OVERPEAKING over Zero REC LEVEL. In the SONY's you are faced with leaving it overpeaking until the song is over or PAUSING and Ruining the Song to adj levels. If it Overpeaks Too Long, The Recording of The Song Is Trashed Too. Nearly all take the wait until the song ends and hope the levels didn't go too long at +2.

The SHARP MD Portables also have been said to PROVIDE A GREATER AMOUNT OF PiP (Plug In Power) voltage to the RED MIC IN on Sharp MD machines versus what Sony's provide.
The greater PiP (plug in power) provided to the RED MIC IN allows the Stereo MIC to operate closer to its operational SPL limits than otherwise with lower power.
__________________________
Oddly, SONY didn't allow REC Level Adjustment On The Fly but Aiwa, a Sony subsidiary, I think, did allow this on at least some models
like the AIWA AM-F70
http://www.minidisc.org/amf70_user/index.html

See page 14-15 "You can adjust the recording level during analog recording and microphone recording"
see p 16-17 also

------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Newer, later "old MD" portable recorders from SHARP & SONY do have much better battery life for both Recording Time and Playback.
There are some drawbacks though. Buttons are multifunctional and smaller.
Controls aren't as easy to use . In the case of late SONY's, the erase/"write-over" issue.
Plastic cases
MD LP capabilities that aren't needed...
I have a SHARP MD-MT200 which has MD LP capabilities, Dolby H , presets like STUDIO, LIVE, STADIUM etc, and yet it doesn't record live any better than a MD-Mt821 or MD-SR60 or MD-MT16 or MD-MT90.
The Record button is so tiny it is about the size of this 0 . Yeah the size of that zero.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the best home Mini-Disc unit out there that is available and reliable. I am interested in comparing it with my Dat player, which sounds superb for digital

"God forgive me for saying that!".

[Glantoir]

What is the best home Mini-Disc unit out there that is available and reliable. I am interested in comparing it with my Dat player, which sounds superb for digital

"God forgive me for saying that!".

You are risking the wrath of TH members internationally there, macman007*eek*

Joking aside, I think the Sony MDS JB 930 is a nice sounding deck for playback, but R.Daneel or Nick Sunn would be much better at advising you on this.

[R.Daneel]

This would be my choice for the best MD deck:

Sony MDS-JA555ES or an MDS-JA50ES
Denon DMD-1800

MfdGame has a Denon DMD-1600AL so he's the person to talk to considerin the Denon brand. I am sure it is one of the best even though I've never heard it.

These decks are not cheap and a good eBay dea would probably be around 350-450 Euro for one of these machines. The best Denons were reserved for Japan only but few of these have been known to appear on eBay.

The A/D and D/A converters in these machines will be as good or better than most DAT machines there even without 20bit SBM. Especially the A/D converter in the JA50ES. However, there's more to MD decks than just converters so the results will depend on your expectations. The best MD decks can offer greater dynamics as well as superior mid-range focus and imaging. They won't outperform a DAT machine in top end of the spectrum nor will they be able to convey the atmosphere. But, comparing such a machine to, say a ZA5ES DAT deck will prove the MD deck as superior in most parameters and most importantly, a lot more enjoyable for it's full-scale dynamics. If you're up for it, get yourself one of these in good condition and see how it does.

[Glantoir]

Hi Antun,
I've been offered at Sony JB940 for 100euro. Would this be a worthwhile upgrade for my JE480?
Pat

[R.Daneel]

Errm... let's see here. How about you give me the contact of the seller so that I can "make sure" you're not getting scammed... LOL!! Are you kidding me? If the deck is in a good csmetic condition and fully functional, then I will quote Mr. Marc Hugo and say "Grab! Run!!!"

It will be more than an adequate substitute and after you get it, you will most likely sell your -930. However, be aware that these are not exactly the same machines. Input sections and switching are different. The -940 also supports MDLP though both are type-R machines. The -940 also has a selectable word-length from 16 to 24bit for the digital output section. On the other hand, -930 might have an edge in digital recording. Generally, both -930 and -940 can be seen as best possible iteration of MD technology for recording enthusiast. Their feature list superceeds the ES range and sound is not that far behind. I prefer the looks of a silver -930 over any other QS range deck.

[R.Daneel]

It appears as though the post by Nick which I am about to comment has been erased. I don't wanna be so negative but the Onkyo Hi-MD deck he was referring to has nothing to beat a std-MD TOTL deck like the ones I have mentioned. it does PCM recording yes but the output and input stages are nothing to get excited about.

[Glantoir]

I am taking your advice Antun, (you can cancel your flight to Ireland now ;) ) and will buy the JB940.

Will post pics when I get it home.

[R.Daneel]

My thoughts exactly! You should post a picture of your decks on top of each other. That'll be one killer rack man!

[Glantoir]

One Sony MDS JE 480 going cheap,anyone? :)

[hawkster27]

Hi Antun,
I've been offered at Sony JB940 for 100euro. Would this be a worthwhile upgrade for my JE480?
Pat

I don't think you can go wrong with the JB940 for 100 euros if it's in good shape. I 'bayed mine ($400) so I could buy a used JA20ES. Frankly, I probably shouldn't have bothered. They sound virtually identical. The tray loader on the 20ES is nice, but its EL display is unevenly illuminated, a common problem on these machines. And, the 940 allows keyboard input of data, a big convenience if you do a lot of archiving.

[Glantoir]

I don't think you can go wrong with the JB940 for 100 euros if it's in good shape. I 'bayed mine ($400) so I could buy a used JA20ES. Frankly, I probably shouldn't have bothered. They sound virtually identical. The tray loader on the 20ES is nice, but its EL display is unevenly illuminated, a common problem on these machines. And, the 940 allows keyboard input of data, a big convenience if you do a lot of archiving.

I would be a big fan of the keyboard titling option.
It makes life so much easier.*bigthumbup*

[Glantoir]

Heres a few pictures of the Sony MDS JB 940. Just picked it up today.
The JB930 is feeling a little threatened!!

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9405.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9404.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9403.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9402.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9401.jpg

Have just tried a couple of MDs recorded with the JB930 & JE480.

First impressions are that the 940 has a more open and slightly weightier sound than the 930.

Anyways, I'm very pleased with it so far, but will be playing with it more over next few days!

[hawkster27]

Ry Cooder: Bop Til You Drop! Shweeet! I've got that on vinyl; I think I'll fire up the JA20ES tomorrow and rip that to MD.

[R.Daneel]

It is interesting to see however that both your decks are "UK special edition". Sony never made it clear what the differences were but I read somewhere that the UK version has a different digital filter curve with slightly pronounced low and high end. It's silly if you ask me. But that's a nice rack!

[Elite-ist]

Heres a few pictures of the Sony MDS JB 940. Just picked it up today.
The JB930 is feeling a little threatened!!

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9405.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9404.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9403.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9402.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/9401.jpg

Have just tried a couple of MDs recorded with the JB930 & JE480.

First impressions are that the 940 has a more open and slightly weightier sound than the 930.

Anyways, I'm very pleased with it so far, but will be playing with it more over next few days!
Hi Pat,

Congratulations on the addition of the Sony MDS JB 940 to your system. My impression of mini disc players/recorders is the home units seem to be fairly trouble-free. I have a mini disc lens cleaner which came with my player. Is it better to use the lens cleaner disc, or to manually clean the lens? Any other maintenance items I should be tending to?

Nando.

[R.Daneel]

Hi Nando!

If your MD deck is functioning without hassles, do not use the MD lens cleaner. MD decks require no maintenance. I never used an MD lens cleaner in my life. What you can do is always close the lid of the MD portable after you remove the disc, clean the exterior regularly and wipe the discs with handkerchief or a tissue before you insert it into the deck or a portable player. If the discs are stored in a dust free environment, then you have no problems.

[Elite-ist]

Hi Nando!

If your MD deck is functioning without hassles, do not use the MD lens cleaner. MD decks require no maintenance. I never used an MD lens cleaner in my life. What you can do is always close the lid of the MD portable after you remove the disc, clean the exterior regularly and wipe the discs with handkerchief or a tissue before you insert it into the deck or a portable player. If the discs are stored in a dust free environment, then you have no problems.

Thanks Antun! I haven't used my home mini disc player/recorder in more than a year, but I'm sure it should be fine.

Nando.

[Glantoir]

The only trouble I've had with an MD deck was my JE510,which use to turn itself on randomly from standby. It was, AFAIK, a common problem with that model.
Besides that, it was a real workhorse and despite having a hard life, worked (and still works) very well.
Otherwise,(touches wood here!) I have never had a problem with my decks, all Sony's.
I do like to keep them dust free at all times though!
I'm sure your MD deck will be fine to Nando .

[R.Daneel]

Interestingly enough, Sony appears to have had professionale level decks derived from their consumer level decks. Most notably the MDS-E52, E58 and E55 decks derived from MDS-JE510 consumer deck. They appear to be idenctical in appearance though the pro counterparts have a different, dark grey and black color scheme and rack mounting sides. Also, the pro decks have an optional balanced output daughterboard that can be installed and apparently, a more substantial drive mechanism. Sony obviously thought the JE5xx series was good enough to be used for live recording.

Does anyone know something more abou these pro-level decks? I think they look even better than their consumer grade cousins. Anybody owned a Teac/Tascam MD deck?

[Skywavebe]

I have had some of the Tascam decks and they were advised against due to mechanism problems- they bought them anyway. Then they all mostly jammed up on me and I told the owner why don't you guys listen to me?
Sometimes people have to look for used Broadcast equipment that might be in good shape- this is what I was told to get rid of in a Chicago Radio studio. Denon, Tascam. The 301 is the one that gives trouble.

[R.Daneel]

Interesting! So Tascam and Denon are out? Are there any particular MD decks you'd recommend for reliability? Sony or HHB perhaps?

[Glantoir]

Heres some pictures of my Sony MZ-RH1. Just bought today.

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/Rh1ld.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/RH1side.jpg
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/Glantoir/Sidesil.jpg

[Pentium100]

I bought a RH1, or rather just won the auction, will pay tomorrow. I plan to use it for copying analog stuff to digital (when someone asks me to) so I don't have to do it on a PC, data storage and of course recording/playing music :)

[Glantoir]

Yes,thats what appealed to me about the RH1, the ability to transfer vinyl recordings to CD.
Its a beautiful little machine and I'm slowly getting to grips with controls (most of which are on remote,and I really don't like remotes)
Are you getting any Hi-MDs with your player?

[Pentium100]

No, just 10 regular 80 minute MDs. Not a problem for me, since the discs can still be used in HiMD mode, just with less capacity.

[Nick Sunn]

Yeah, those hi-md machines are light years ahead of all the 'OLD MD' stuff from SONY/SHARP!

If you have one of those hi-md machines, you really are short changing yourself by not using the hi-md discs and at the same time take advantage of the BEST QUALITY , non lossy recording capabilities.
If you use a regular 80min 'OLD MD' disc and record at this BEST QUALITY , you will get approx 22 minutes total recording time MAXIMUM.
I can't recall exactly. My brother went with hi-md about six years ago, to replace his 'OLD MD' mz-r70 for recording concerts. The main thing was that hi-md allowed direct digital out with no SCMS issues or Atrac lossy 1/5 info compression scheme. (though the 1/5 Atrac system does provide outstanding audio for 'OLD MD')
The major benefit of hi-md and the BEST QUALITY AUDIO and the unique hi-md blanks is the amount of audio recording time(capacity) that each can take. You get a good bit more than 80min.
This means that you need to FLIP the hi-md discs out less frequently, when recording live. FLIP used in this discussion refers to the need to change out the discs, just like FLIPPIN' tapes in the old days of recording live with tape.
hi-md still gives you a hard copy MASTER. hi-MD's discs are widely available. They aren't $1.75 like an new ancient "OLD MD", but they are about around $6 or so new.
Sure, there aren't home hi-md decks, unless you order one out of Japan.
These hi-MD portables are superb. Nothing from ancient 'OLD MD' will come close to matching the lossless quality that hi-MD produces.
These hi-MD portables from SONY are a huge improvement over Sony's portable ancient "OLD MD" portables. Record levels are adjustable.
The lossy 1/5 data retention of "OLD MD" atrac is a thing of the past.
If you are satisfied with ancient "OLD MD" that is fine, but if you've got one of these hi-MD units, you really should take advantage of all of its capabilities in superb Digital Recording free of the LOSSY nature of ancient "OLD MD". You need to use hi-MD discs to get more than approx 20-22min on a 80min MD at best quality. It makes no sense to limit yourself to just 22 or 20 min and having to change discs.

I can certainly understand if you want it for its BACKWARDS compatibility to the ancient "OLD MD" format, but if you have a hi-MD unit, you might as well go for the gusto as Schlitz beer once proclaimed.

[Pentium100]

22 minutes per disc may not be that bad. If I record because I want to copy an analog source to digital, I can do 22 minutes at a time (record, copy to a PC, erase the disc, record...). For data storage, the ~350MB that the regular MD disc has will be enough for me for now (especially since I currently still use floppies - 1.44MB per disc). For music, I guess I'll use this as an MP3 player (I have some songs in MP3 format and would like to be able to listen to them away from my PC, but do not want to record them to a cassette) and I'll figure out what else.

Oh, and I can always buy the Hi-MD discs separately, no need to find a seller who sells them with the recorder. Maybe I'll even find some locally (I saw some MDs at the store where I buy Maxell UR tapes and VHS tapes, but as I did not care at the time, I do not know whether they were regular or Hi- MD and what the price was).

[R.Daneel]

RH1 is a nice recorder! What's your opinion on the sound Pat?

[Glantoir]

Hi Antun,Sorry about delay in getting back to you.
I've been kinda busy for past few days at work and stuff.

TBH I've haven't really had a chance to listen closely to it yet.
Will let you know during the week when things are back to normal again.

[bob955i]

RH1 is a nice recorder! What's your opinion on the sound Pat?

Not Glantoir but I can proffer an opinion...

I've got an MZ-R30, MZ-R35 and an RH1 and my conclusion as far as basic playback of a pre-recorded MD via headphones is concerned is that the RH1 totally smokes the older generation Sony MD portables.

Even from the now around 13 year old pre-recorded MD there is a clarity and depth to the sound that has to be heard to be believed and that's without using any of the DSP EQ; it's light years ahead of the older models and is truly audible - you'd need to be clinically deaf or dead not to hear it IMO. Based on the sound quality of this machine, IMO Sony were utterly mad to discontinue it and kill off MD in the process. I've not really had a chance to use it for recording as yet though so can't comment on that but if playback is anything to go by, it should be pretty superb.

Other wee thing I found too is that the RH1 remote works on the R30 and R35 even to the extent of displaying the tracks etc. There's only one button that doesn't function and that's the one for the DSP EQ effects as you'd expect.

I've always liked MD though so I might be a wee bit biased...

[R.Daneel]

Hi Bob! Thanks for the reply! I've no doubt the RH1 sounds better, it's components like the ADC, DAC and amplifier are newer type and have better specs so it's no wonder it sounds better. May I ask what prerecorded MDs do you have and is there something in specific that sounds unusually good that you'd recommend?

[Elite-ist]

Not Glantoir but I can proffer an opinion...

I've got an MZ-R30, MZ-R35 and an RH1 and my conclusion as far as basic playback of a pre-recorded MD via headphones is concerned is that the RH1 totally smokes the older generation Sony MD portables.

Even from the now around 13 year old pre-recorded MD there is a clarity and depth to the sound that has to be heard to be believed and that's without using any of the DSP EQ; it's light years ahead of the older models and is truly audible - you'd need to be clinically deaf or dead not to hear it IMO. Based on the sound quality of this machine, IMO Sony were utterly mad to discontinue it and kill off MD in the process. I've not really had a chance to use it for recording as yet though so can't comment on that but if playback is anything to go by, it should be pretty superb.

Other wee thing I found too is that the RH1 remote works on the R30 and R35 even to the extent of displaying the tracks etc. There's only one button that doesn't function and that's the one for the DSP EQ effects as you'd expect.

I've always liked MD though so I might be a wee bit biased...

Hi Bob,

If you are interested, it's not too late to become involved in Pat's (Glantoir) Traveling Mini Disc Project. I just finished recording my three tracks today. I'll upload pictures and commentary in the appropiate thread, later.

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx322/vintagevet/DSC06256.jpg

Nando.

[bob955i]

Cheers Nando but I think I'll leave it this time as my system's in a bit of an upheaval. Since I signed on here, I've pulled out a few items that I want to re-incorporate into the setup and this will require some relocation and rewiring etc. Put it this way, I need a patchbay... *lmao*

Hi Bob! Thanks for the reply! I've no doubt the RH1 sounds better, it's components like the ADC, DAC and amplifier are newer type and have better specs so it's no wonder it sounds better. May I ask what prerecorded MDs do you have and is there something in specific that sounds unusually good that you'd recommend?

Hi Antun, no problem. Sometimes newer and higher spec components only result in an incremental upgrade that isn't always apparent or audible but in the case of the RH1, it was a decidedly noticeable jump.

I've only got one pre-recorded MD which is 'Let's Groove' - The Best of Earth Wind & Fire so my opinion is based on playing individual tracks on the R35 machine then playing them on the RH1 and listening with the set of headphones as supplied with the RH1. Not particularly scientific but then it didn't need to be for me as my primary interest in the RH1 was its PCM and computer connectivity capability.

There was only one shop in my area at the time that sold pre-recorded MDs and I recall them costing either about the same, or maybe even slightly more than a CD. They also didn't have a particularly wide range either but I don't know if that was because the record companies weren't releasing much in the way of pre-recorded MDs or if there was another reason. Hardly the best way to promote a format that was lauded as a cassette replacement I felt. Due to the price, apparent lack of content and limited distribution - at least in my area, I didn't pursue pre-recorded MDs. No problem with blanks though.

[R.Daneel]

Thanks Bob!

Well, the improvement in playback quality on the RH1 is mostly due to it's class-D amplifier which had lower distortion and a lot less noise. Sharp had some fine players in it's day and age but they were not this good.

I agree with you on the matter of prerecorded discs. Though the format was originally intended to be a perfect portable solution and hence the first model introduced, the MZ-1 was a portable unit, the number of titles was very limited and they were expensive. One could not expect someone to buy a CD title and then the same one on MiniDisc just to be used when out and about. The MD stronghold was recording and non-linear editing but again, it was too expensive. There were other and in my opinion more serious problems with MD, most notably the sound quality. In 1992 when first MD units came out, the processing power needed was simply not available and solutions others than commercial semiconductor ICs would be far too expensive. In other words, the industry just wasn't ready to manufacture something cheap that would be powerful and small enough to be fitted into a portable machine. In a way, MD was ahead of it's time. But soon after, ICs were available and it made MD cheaper and a lot better sounding. Like they say, the rest is history.

Cheers!

[bob955i]

A work colleague had one of the Sharp machines around the same time I got my R30 in 1997 and I recall it sounded not too bad at all - I'm pretty sure it could also adjust the record level on the fly, unlike the Sonys. Don't remember the model number though other than the fact the machine was square and supremely funky!

As for early sound quality, I also seem to remember an issue with the Sony machines where one of the channels would randomly drop out for a millisecond or so resulting in the signal panning hard left or hard right. I heard this twice on my R30 but never on the R35.

Out of the two formats of the day, DCC and MD, it was MD for me due to the portability of the machines and the small size and durability of the discs for field recording. That's why I wasn't too bothered about the pre-recorded disc aspect although if they had made the pre-recorded discs cheaper, perhaps more people would have bought into the technology and the format would still be with us.

We'll never know now though...

Thanks Bob!

Well, the improvement in playback quality on the RH1 is mostly due to it's class-D amplifier which had lower distortion and a lot less noise. Sharp had some fine players in it's day and age but they were not this good.

I agree with you on the matter of prerecorded discs. Though the format was originally intended to be a perfect portable solution and hence the first model introduced, the MZ-1 was a portable unit, the number of titles was very limited and they were expensive. One could not expect someone to buy a CD title and then the same one on MiniDisc just to be used when out and about. The MD stronghold was recording and non-linear editing but again, it was too expensive. There were other and in my opinion more serious problems with MD, most notably the sound quality. In 1992 when first MD units came out, the processing power needed was simply not available and solutions others than commercial semiconductor ICs would be far too expensive. In other words, the industry just wasn't ready to manufacture something cheap that would be powerful and small enough to be fitted into a portable machine. In a way, MD was ahead of it's time. But soon after, ICs were available and it made MD cheaper and a lot better sounding. Like they say, the rest is history.

Cheers!

[Elite-ist]

Hi Bob,

Plenty of rejigging in the works? I can only imagine what other gems you might be pulling out of the confines of your collection storage. And I need to set up an additional patchbay, beyond the dbx 400 router I am using, presently. I should invest in a good quality multi-channel mixer, next year. I use a small one downstairs.

Nando.

[bob955i]

Hi Nando,

Yes, I've got a Leak 3900T tuner in storage that I want to re-introduce to it's somewhat lonely matching 3900A amp plus have the ability to patch in the Ferrograph Y632, Philips N4522, Akai GX-4000D and the Sony MZ-RH1 amongst other items. I'm currently not using a Teac H-300 DAB tuner as I've all but given up on UK DAB broadcasting due to the fact that despite there being plenty of stations, almost all play the same commercial chart crap over and over, those that don't, don't play anything I want to listen to, the sound quality's dire and the few channels I can still stand listening to, broadcast on FM anyway. They marketed DAB as CD quality; is it hell - it's not even as good as MP3 and MP3's not all it's cracked up to be...

I looked at 1U rack mount mixers but the only ones I saw were Behringer and although I've got a original 1996 Ultracurve and DSP-1100 feedback destroyer both of which work well enough, I've never been entirely happy with the overall sound quality. I also didn't really want to add yet more active electronics to the signal path so started looking at patchbays instead.

There are indeed more gems like an Akai GXR-82D 8-track for starters...

[Elite-ist]

Yes, I've got a Leak 3900T tuner in storage that I want to re-introduce to it's somewhat lonely matching 3900A amp plus have the ability to patch in the Ferrograph Y632, Philips N4522, Akai GX-4000D and the Sony MZ-RH1 amongst other items. I'm currently not using a Teac H-300 DAB tuner as I've all but given up on UK DAB broadcasting due to the fact that despite there being plenty of stations, almost all play the same commercial chart crap over and over, those that don't, don't play anything I want to listen to, the sound quality's dire and the few channels I can still stand listening to, broadcast on FM.

I looked at 1U rack mount mixers but the only ones I saw were Behringer and although I've got a original 1996 Ultracurve and DSP-1100 feedback destroyer both of which work well enough, I've never been entirely happy with the overall sound quality. I also didn't really want to add yet more active electronics to the signal path so started looking at patchbays instead.

There are indeed more gems like an Akai GXR-82D 8-track for starters...

Bob: Now, that's an impressive line-up. And holy cr**, too many wires! I have resorted to using convoluted tubing to contain the multiple audio patch cords, but not in my present system, because I'm still swapping out components.

Nando.

[bob955i]

Hi Nando,

Your pile isn't too shabby either... *bigthumbup* *smokin*

I was actually considering making a snake to cut down on the audio spaghetti as I have multicore cable but not everything is or will be in the same place at each end so I reckon it'll be something similar to you using convoluted tube.

I know what'll happen here; I'll pull it all to bits and then half of it will never work again... *lmao*

[Glantoir]

Well, I had a good chance to listen and play with the RH1 today.
For me the small controls on the remote are a bit fiddly but that aside one of the real reasons for buying one was for the ability to transfer complete (uncompressed) files from md to pc.
Antun my favourite md walkman is a Sony MZR900 so this is what I was comparing sq to.
I don't really like the earphones that came with the RH1 so I used my old ones(can't remember the model no)
Anyway. the RH1 sounds great, very nice defined sound with lots of nice tight bass.
I am very pleased with it,its really a beautiful well featured unit. I think you will love it!

[mfdgame]

I also have an RH1. It is a very cool machine indeed. I haven't tried it as a recorder but I did do some straight transfers of CD to Hi-MD. I have been spoiled by my Sony Discman though and even as a direct copy it can't compete with higher end discmans that I have had the pleasure of hearing. I do love that it can do PCM though. Another interesting thing I am finding is that the original Atrac 292 out-performs the newer Hi-SP. I can't explain it but Hi-Sp doesn't breath at all. It just sounds really compressed to me where as the older atrac doesn't so much. Well, I just thought I would chime in here. I really do love the player just based on all of it's amazing features. The sound quality is awesome but I have been spoiled by other CD players. For doing recording of records to PC the thing probably rocks I would guess. I've been transferring all sorts of old MDs to my computer in PCM Via the RH1 which is something I could have used 10 years ago.

[R.Daneel]

SP sounds better than Hi-SP that's correct. In terms of compression algorithm, Hi-SP is much closer to AAC for example. It's not a case with any of the original Atrac algorithms.

[Pentium100]

So, my MZ-RH1 has finally arrived :) Out of the 10 MDs included, 3 were with music (opera and/or classic, I'm in the process of listening to the recordings) and 7 were unopened. The seller also included an extra battery (well, aside from the usual stuff like the charger).

So, I immediately started playing with it. The sound quality is good (though it is quite easy to satisfy me in that regard), it also supports mp3 files, so I will be able to copy some songs from the PC and listen to them while not at home. On the other hand, the need to use Sonic Stage to copy the music to/from the recorder is an inconvenience, it would be better if I could just copy the files and that's it.

The headphone amplifier is a bit weak and cannot drive my 300ohm "big" headphones loudly, but it can drive my "outside" 60ohm headphones quite well. I am not a fan of loud music (usually), but the amplifier does not have a lot of gain. Anyway, I am now listening to it using my "big" headphones and the tube headphone amp I always use. Sounds OK.

I tried recording, Hi-LP is quite good for speech but I managed to get it to distort a song with a lot of high frequencies. Hi-SP to me sounds exactly like the source (but so does 192kbps mp3). I have not tried PCM yet.

I think I will use this recorder for recording lectures at the university instead of my Uher 4400 IC (couldn't use cassettes due to the 45min/side limit), I'll do a test run next time and see how it goes. The fact that it can work from a USB power source is great - if I want I will be able to connect an external battery with a 12V->5V adapter and not worry about the device running out of power.

It seems that I can edit song titles in Sonic Stage, which is great, otherwise it would be a PITA to do it on the device itself (especially for the traveling MD).

Overall, I am quite happy with it, while I can think of ways of making it more convenient to use (basically more functions on switches rather than the menu), I am happy as it is. Over time I will learn the button positions and the menu so it will be easier for me to use. I think I will do all my recording to a digital format this way.

Tomorrow I am going to the store to buy VHS tapes and I saw some MDs there too, depending on their price (and whether they have Hi-MDs) I will decide how I will use this device.

[R.Daneel]

Hi Pentium100! Which 300 Ohm headphones did you use with the RH1? Sennheiser HD650 works just fine with my NH1 though when it comes to the Sennheisers, they are pretty undiscriminating when it comes to other equipment (which can be hardly said about the HD800) but which ones did you use?

[Pentium100]

Hi Pentium100! Which 300 Ohm headphones did you use with the RH1? Sennheiser HD650 works just fine with my NH1 though when it comes to the Sennheisers, they are pretty undiscriminating when it comes to other equipment (which can be hardly said about the HD800) but which ones did you use?

MB Quart QP805 High Solid, I bough those when I broke my other headphones, these were advertised as much stronger and they actually are - less plastic, more metal.

The other headphones were Koss PortaPro (I do not see any model number on the phones themselves and I do not know where the box is). I use these when I am not at home.

Anyway, after more playing wit the recorder I discovered these things:
1. SonicStage can identify songs. I do not know what information it uses to find it though, but together with Tunatic it should be useful (already was, see #2);
2. The opera in those 3 discs is Wagner - "Tristan & Isolde", using the computer I managed to fit all the tracks to two MDs instead of 3 - no compression just that those 3 discs were half full.
3. MDs do not have "memory" - take the disc out, put it back in and the player won't know what was the last song I played. Same as with CDs - I should avoid putting one long track on it. Take a tape out, put it back in and it will play right from where it stopped.
4. Microphone AGC looks useful for recording lectures. The ability to put about 10 hours on one disc (Hi-LP) and the ability to easily copy it to a PC makes it more useful than the Uher 4400.
5. The fact that it can charge from USB is great - I already bought a 12V->USB converter so if I ever need to, I can use the recorder with an 12V lead-acid battery - 2.2Ah (smallest I have) should go a long time... Also, the display stays on when the recorder gets power from the charger, while it turns off after a while when on battery to save energy - great.
6. File writing speed on regular MDs is a bit slow (needs further testing). Still faster than floppies.
7. The store I went to did not have any MDs. I still would like to find them locally so I would not have to buy boxes to justify the shipping.
8. I sometimes saw people selling whole MD collections on ebay - maybe I'll be able to afford one - I need MDs with music as I currently do not have many.
9. PCM recording is great - now I'll be able to record to a digital format without using my PC for the realtime part.


10. The Play/ff/fw switch (on the player itself) is most likely dirty - when I move it to ff or rw position, the recorder sometimes acts as if I pushed "display" or moved it to the opposite position than it actually is. Is there a way to clean it without much disassembling, maybe some wd40 or other contact cleaner could be sprayed in without taking the recorder apart?

Another question - can the surface of the recorder be scratched easily? I mean, should I be very careful with it or just careful?

[R.Daneel]

Unlike on the NH1 with magnesium case (very scratch resistant), RH1 has an aluminium case and so you should be careful. Alu-case on my cassette players never proved to be any more resilient apart from good looks.

RH1 as well as the NH1 has personal disc memory. What this does is stores the information about the volume, track and EQ settings used for 50 most recently used discs. RH1 should have an option in it's menu system to activate this feature.

[Pentium100]

I do not see it. Also, it is not mentioned in the manual. Anyway, is it possible to somehow clean the ff/rw/play switch without taking the recorder apart?

[Nick Sunn]

re: Previous posts in this thread related to PORTABLE md machines&LIVE REC

Earlier, a little bit was mentioned about building battery boxes and stereo mics, and such.
(OBVIOUSLY a SONY hi-md portable will be superior in QUALITY to the any of the best "ancient-old Regular MD" SHARPS or Sony's........as hi-md produces digital quality that is not lossy, just as the successors to hi-md , the PCM stereo recorder from Sony, e.g. PCM D50 & PCM M10 to name just two of these "solid-state" machines"

Well anyway most all of these MD machines, hi-md machines, most of the old "stereo recording walkman type" Cassette and even the low cost candy bar sized MP3 digital recorders HAVE the RED colored , (plug-in-power) STEREO MIC input.

I stated earlier that it is extremely simple to build a decent functioning STEREO mic from Panasonic WM-55 103 A UNI or WM-61 omni elements that Digi-Key in Minnesota, USA sells. (google: Digi-key)
Anyway, lets say you've got one of these old SONY or SHARP MD portables , but you don't have a small stereo mic yet.
THERE ARE knock-off ECM-DS70P stereo mics from hong kong all over Ebay and they can be obtained for less than $5 total!
Lets say they may not be the worlds greatest stereo mic, but they do outperform some mics, believe it or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfDuIFk5A8w&feature=related
THE ABOVE U-toob link is "A FAKE vs A REAL ONE, side by side comparison..
The Really Cool Thing About The Fake One is that EVEN though its a knock-off, ONE CAN UNSCREW IT, AND OPEN IT UP AND REPLACE THE oem elements with PANASONICS or whatever and the housing alone makes for a good starting point to construct a mic.
VERY LOW COST, and though fake, you couldn't build as neat of a housing for under $5, and the fake is operational in that the quality is not too bad as is from bogus soNee from China.

One other thing....(#260859119915 ebay) just a typical example of how to locate a very low cost SHARP portable, in this case an MT-99 which was common to the UK/Cont. Europe/Japan but not the USA
England has many portables that nobody wants anymore since Ipods took over the world http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sharp-Portable-Mini-Disc-Recorder-MD-MT99-/260859119915?pt=UK_CE_Cassette_RL&hash=item3cbc6a492b

A cheapo knock-off will get you Testing&Recording with your little ol' MD machine. Should you have a portable that only has a LINE INPUT and doesn't have a micIn ....Just GOOGLE: how to build a battery box .....that info is readily avail online. Obviously, the better the stereo microphone, generally the better the recording capability, however many "decent Name-More Expensive, but still basic stereo mics" DO NOT RECORD AS WELL AS some cheapies or homemade ones.
You will find that the properties of some will have a significant LACK OF BASS (nothing below 240) and may end up sounding THIN & TINNY.
It just all depends.
One Thing Is For Sure, even though outclassed now by the non-lossy formats like hi-md & PCM solid-state units, the ancient old MD can still make fine live recordings, even though its lossy and it is somewhat a hassle to transfer recordings digitally as compared to either hi-md or PCM solid-state machines.
You're probably not going to opt for the best and most costly mic solutions if you are using a $10 old MD portable, though you could if you wished or already had the necessary gear. You'd likely be using the best current solution of unlossy, PCM gear with high quality External Mics plugged into the machine(e.g. PCM- M10 with External Mics of a very high quality plugged into that SONY machine, as its recording quality & noise floor & mic preamp(mic in) is OUTSTANDING relative to all current machines)

*bigthumbup*Use Them If You've Got Them....you can still make very decent recordings with ancient gear, and have some fun doing it...

[Nick Sunn]

*bigthumbup*This is youtube video of someone attempting to replace the mic elements inside the FONY ds70p FAKE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t4zpMb2fp0&feature=related
(THE TUTORIAL IS NOT GREAT, as he ultimately isn't successful on this attempt as his Left Channel mic gets blocked by something while he re-assembles) IT DOES GIVE A GOOD VIEW OF THE BASIC COMPONENTS, as there is nothing really but the elements and the two wires on each to the plug. Again the "island" solder pad is the connection and the solder pad on the back of the element which connects to the perimeter of the metal casing is Ground .

I'd recommend Panasonic UNI elements (WM-55A103)
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9961-ND
Again, you can try whatever you like. Scavenge mic elements from a broken 1980's ghettoblaster , back when two mics were common on ghettoblasters & boom boxes .

Should you desire the OMNI Panasonic element (WM-61)
I'd recommend you build a different housing to separate them further for greater stereo since they are OMNI and mounted very close together OMNI's aren't usually the best.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P9925-ND

.....again just simply suggestions as there are plenty of sources for mic elements and more producers other than Panasonic, though their quality is good.

[Pentium100]

I use Olympus ME51S. I do not know how well it compares to others, but for lectures and the occasional stealth recording at a concert is is OK.

[Pentium100]

Is it possible to buy just the connector for the remote control? I think I can manage to use it so I can use my recorder in my car, but I do not want to pay for the whole remote if I only need the connector :)

EDIT 2011 10 12: I finally modified the tape deck in my car - added aux input, now I can connect the MD recorder. Sounds quite good and finally I can use MDs in my car, so I can actually use them to record music. I can switch between radio and aux by pressing "eject" and "function/power" buttons together :) The tape deck is Clarion ARX8170R, if anyone wants to know how did I do it, just ask me.

[close652]

Does anybody actually use this Victor (JVC) (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270721574495?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) MD? I know there is little difference in brands but I did have some problems with maxells.
Or should I stick to Sony and TDK?

[Akai man.]

I've not tried those, this is what I'm currently using http://www.amazon.co.uk/TDK-MD-MiniDisc-10-80min/dp/B000HC4G9W/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1319116301&sr=1-1

Geoff. *bigthumbup*

[mfdgame]

Does anybody actually use this Victor (JVC) (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270721574495?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) MD? I know there is little difference in brands but I did have some problems with maxells.
Or should I stick to Sony and TDK?

I would think that you would find those to be fine. I couldn't say for sure but I probably have used those along with tons of other brands and have found little if any difference between them all. I basically don't even look at the brand when I buy MDs at all. Sony ones are sold at the dollar store here in Japan so I doubt that Victor would be any worse. Where you might see some differences is when you get the ES Sony ones but it probably just means you could record over stuff 2 million times instead of 100,000. I also have bought a few that were even generic dollar store ones that are not even branded and they play fine as well. If there is a difference, I've never seen it and I've been using MD for 15 years. I would say to go for the Victors if they are a good deal because I would.*Hi5*

[close652]

I will try those Victors along with some Sony Neige ones.
I have also found these from France. (http://cgi.ebay.fr/LOT-DE-30-MINIDISC-80-MIN-MD80-FNAC-NEUF-MADE-IN-JAPAN-/260873121064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item3cbd3fed28)

[mfdgame]

I will try those Victors along with some Sony Neige ones.
I have also found these from France. (http://cgi.ebay.fr/LOT-DE-30-MINIDISC-80-MIN-MD80-FNAC-NEUF-MADE-IN-JAPAN-/260873121064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item3cbd3fed28)

I use the Sony neige ones all the time. They work fine for me.

[close652]

A nice collection of MD photos. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaytilston/tags/minidisc/show/)

There is almost no MD available here anymore. One shop has some Sony with a 7USD pricetag. It is nice to have ebay.

[vidguy]

I just bought a NIB MZ-RH1 from China.
Not sure why, I suppose it's 'cause MD is the only format I *didn't* have!

Looking forward to playing with it when it get's here.

Soon, I'm going to do a complete format shoot-out, with samples to post to the board.

Open Reel-Cassette-LP-CD-DAT-DCC-MD

Should be interesting.