Sony DUAD Type-III FeCr Tape

[Scorpion8]

Another new find ....

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/SonyDUADTypeIIICassette02.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/SonyDUADTypeIIICassette01.jpg

[MacGyver]

now THERE'S an odd one. i must find me one of those "DUAD"s, then i can consider myself a "DUAD"

[Scorpion8]

Type III FeCr was my favorite while it lived, and I never bought enough of it. Finding one is rare these days. Finding NOS would about finish me off.

[MacGyver]

so what's the diff between TYPE-II FeCr and TYPE-III?

[Web Police]

Nice looking Sony Tape. It looks like 1980/81 vintage. I have a bunch of Sony EHF tapes that look just like that. Except mine are type II tapes.

http://home.earthlink.net/~web-police2/Used%20Tapes/UT1.jpg

[Des-Lab]

so what's the diff between TYPE-II FeCr and TYPE-III?


First of there IS no "Type II" FeCr that I'm aware of.

The original Type II cassette was a true chromium dioxide base (CrO2). Because of the royalty issues involed with the patentholder at the time (I believe it was the DuPont Corp), most mfrs instead opted to circumvent that by developing a Type II Chrome *EQUIVALENT* using cobalt instead. Of course that went on to be the prevailing move and true chrome tapes are and were very rare.

Type III wasn't a *new* type per se. Instead, it was a literal hybrid/dual layer tape: CrO2 (or cobalt) on the outer layer and Ferric Oxide (Type I) on the inside.

The theory was that with one tape, you could get the best of both types: the emphasised highs of a Type II and the rich lows indigenous to a Type I.

It looked great on paper. But in the real world, didn't quite work out that way. It was hard to bias properly and was never able to disspell the (untrue and unsubstantiated) rumors that it was abrasive enough to file down your heads.

As such, Type III's are very hard to come by these days. I only know of a handful of companies that even made it:

Scotch ("Classic", later rebranded as "Master III")
Denon (DX-5)
Sony (FeCr and DUAD)

Speaking of the Sony, how do you pronounce that name?

Is is spelled out phonetically ("Dee You Ae Dee")?

Or is it sounded out the same ("Doo-wad")?

[retrokeeper]

My avatar shows 8 of the 10 Sony FeCr NOS 90 min. tapes I found in a thrift about a year ago.I only had one Sony 60 min. FeCr used cassette tape prior to that.And yes,I do have some cassette decks that can use them,but haven't got the nerve to undress one of those beautifully rare tapes,especially to find them in pristine condition!! Rob

[MacGyver]

huh. that DUAD says "TYPE-II FeCr" though, right there on the label...

[Scorpion8]

huh. that DUAD says "TYPE-II FeCr" though, right there on the label...

No, there's actually another line. The top line says:

POSITION
TYPE III(FeCr)
TYPE I (NOR)

I used a magnifying glass ....

[braxus]

I saw an auction for some Denon type 3 tapes. DX-5 ones. So far I've seen Sony, Denon, BASF, and I think one or two more with type 3 tapes.

For anyone who uses these, is it true the top layer gets scrubbed off after a few plays leaving the bottom layer? I know these are dual layer tapes.

[stuartypoorty]

First of there IS no "Type II" FeCr that I'm aware of.

The original Type II cassette was a true chromium dioxide base (CrO2). Because of the royalty issues involed with the patentholder at the time (I believe it was the DuPont Corp), most mfrs instead opted to circumvent that by developing a Type II Chrome *EQUIVALENT* using cobalt instead. Of course that went on to be the prevailing move and true chrome tapes are and were very rare.

Type III wasn't a *new* type per se. Instead, it was a literal hybrid/dual layer tape: CrO2 (or cobalt) on the outer layer and Ferric Oxide (Type I) on the inside.

The theory was that with one tape, you could get the best of both types: the emphasised highs of a Type II and the rich lows indigenous to a Type I.

It looked great on paper. But in the real world, didn't quite work out that way. It was hard to bias properly and was never able to disspell the (untrue and unsubstantiated) rumors that it was abrasive enough to file down your heads.

As such, Type III's are very hard to come by these days. I only know of a handful of companies that even made it:

Scotch ("Classic", later rebranded as "Master III")
Denon (DX-5)
Sony (FeCr and DUAD)

Speaking of the Sony, how do you pronounce that name?

Is is spelled out phonetically ("Dee You Ae Dee")?

Or is it sounded out the same ("Doo-wad")?

Here is a scan of a Sony DUAD and some images of type IIIs from AGFA and BASF.

[braxus]

Matt made a comment on the last version of the Maxell XL-IS tape may have been a hybrid tape. Sort of a type 3 equivalent style of tape. Anyway I also found that Maxell hard to bias and ended up doing it by ear. Does that mean if you have a type 3 tape, you can just set it on type 1 and bias accordingly? Or would you set it on chrome and go that way?

[Mr. Lin]

Does that mean if you have a type 3 tape, you can just set it on type 1 and bias accordingly? Or would you set it on chrome and go that way?

That's exactly what I was just about to ask.

[LesX55]

I have Sony and Denon FeCr tapes.
I use them in the normal position and calibrate for sensitivity with my Nakamichi CR4.
This give a very good overall sound with slightly increased highs, similar to the high end type 1s.
Have also use the Agfa and BASF FeCr, but both of these are very poor and even my Nakamichi has difficulty calibrating these tapes.

[ferriteman]

I use them in the normal position and calibrate for sensitivity with my Nakamichi CR4.

That's the thing about Ferrichrome tapes; correct me if I'm wrong here, but the last decks that actually had a specific type III bias setting were last made in the early/mid 1980s? I believe the life of type III was basically the mid-1970s to the mid 1980s, correct? So in other words to best utilize type III tape I would think that you would need a deck from that era. In other words, the era of "silver" faced decks from Sony, Pioneer.

Regarding BASF type III tape, I did get good results from it on my 1970s era Sony, but didn't buy much of it because I always found it mechanically noisey tape to use (especially on rewind/fastforward!)

regards
Grant

[Naknut]

That's the thing about Ferrichrome tapes; correct me if I'm wrong here, but the last decks that actually had a specific type III bias setting were last made in the early/mid 1980s? I believe the life of type III was basically the mid-1970s to the mid 1980s, correct? So in other words to best utilize type III tape I would think that you would need a deck from that era. In other words, the era of "silver" faced decks from Sony, Pioneer.

Regarding BASF type III tape, I did get good results from it on my 1970s era Sony, but didn't buy much of it because I always found it mechanically noisey tape to use (especially on rewind/fastforward!)

regards
Grant

I agree and I believe that Scorpion8 would also as he has a few Sony decks just for that purpose.

[draka1032]

The Alpine AL-85 and AL-90 decks have 4 position tape selectors including FeCr and metal.

[WaiKeong]

These sounds come from a 24-year old Agfa FeCr III Carat HDX C-60,
transferred with a Denon deck (I think DR-230) from a TDK MA-X C-60,
played and originally recorded on a TEAC V-95RX.

The Agfa hasn't been played in two decades. Hardly any oxidation
when I played it and uploaded on to Youtube last month, using the
deck on a JVC PC-3 minicompo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5t3yTK8Vg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxstUNvJdmg

[WaiKeong]

More uploads from the Agfa FeCr III.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVuon02tLA8


Manfred Mann's "Visionary Mountains" was originally
recorded from LP on one of those Agfa fancy color series
(I remember orange) ferric oxide tapes in 1975, and
transferred to the FeCr III sometime in 1986, using the
TEAC V-95RX and Denon DR-230.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySIlmf-UY5Q