Never Heard A Digital Tape?

[Nak_novice]

Not sure about you guys but I have never seen let alone heard a digital tape. Anyone had any experiences?

[Doug_Olitsky]

have never even seen a DAT in person!

[vinyldavid]

My school has a DAT recorder in the mobile sound cart, but it's never been used and I ask for it every time I see it.....


IIRC it's a Tascam DA-30....

[braxus]

DAT decks sound like CDs in every way since they use the same 16 bits and 44 or 48 khz sampling frequency. We heard a tape in college. DAT works well for what it is. I would never buy one for my own use since I have CD-R-Audio disc recorder. DAT has known transport issue problems and heads will wear out.

I also remember seeing Sony DAT decks in the SONY STORE when they were new in the 90s. Neat idea. Pioneer made a 96 khz DAT deck back when and TASCAM had a 24 bit DAT deck. Both of those decks were double speed. The Tascam 24 bit deck was the first of the 24 bit chipsets out there, so its likely to get better sound from newer boards with better chips.

[Nak_novice]

DAT decks sound like CDs in every way since they use the same 16 bits and 44 or 48 khz sampling frequency. We heard a tape in college. DAT works well for what it is. I would never buy one for my own use since I have CD-R-Audio disc recorder. DAT has known transport issue problems and heads will wear out.

I also remember seeing Sony DAT decks in the SONY STORE when they were new in the 90s. Neat idea. Pioneer made a 96 khz DAT deck back when and TASCAM had a 24 bit DAT deck. Both of those decks were double speed. The Tascam 24 bit deck was the first of the 24 bit chipsets out there, so its likely to get better sound from newer boards with better chips.

Now you have lost me with all that khz and bit stuff Braxus. My small brain is now incapable of accepting that digital and tape go together so I will stick to just one new theme - the open reel deck, for now.

[Web Police]

I had several Technics DCC decks in the late 1990's. These recorded digitally, however they used PASC audio compression. I sold them and the tapes in the early 2000's when stand alone CD recorders became common.

They sounded great in the digital realm, however they never really caught on and the manufacturers soon stopped making the decks and tapes.

[Jay Pemberton]

I never had a DCC tape machine, but I understand they have a function that's useful now, in that they will give a digital output of the analog signals from playback of analog cassette tapes.

I have a Panasonic SV-3700 DAT deck, but almost never turn it on. I used DAT a lot when I recorded concerts for public radio station KTPB in Texas some years ago, and they were very dicey. You never knew when one of them would get hungry and eat a tape, sometimes later in the evening after a concert, when we were playing it back at the station! :eek:

I used it for a digital backup a few weeks ago whilst making a test recording of some live classical music simultaneously on an Alesis Masterlink HD/CD recorder.

[SaSi_Sidi]

I have a couple of DAT and DCC decks. They sound pretty much the same like CD audio and much much better than a low end analog cassette deck.

Do they sound better than a high end cassette deck (using a good tape)?

That depends. If you are looking for absolutely low hiss, then the digital decks will be better, most of the time.

If you are looking for tolerance to high peaks, then the analog decks are better.

Although I haven't made any laboratory tests, I find my Technics RS-B965 using dbx to sound better than a DAT @48kHz.

One nice thing about digital tape is that it sports a "goto" feature. You can seek a track or goto -n, +n tracks from where you currently are, without seeking and stopping.

OTOH, digital decks appear very very sensitive to proper tracking. My Technics RS-DC8 wouldn't even record at times, and when I thought it was a lost cause, I found out that the deck even has diagnostics mode where an average error per second display helps fix the tracking to great accuracy.

What I like DAT for, is that I can fit 4+ hours of very good quality music in a tiny cassette uncompressed. Comparing that to CD, the CD is much less dense.

[Scorpion8]

I have a couple DAT cassettes that I picked up unopened from a thrift, but that's as close as I ever got. Have never seen one for sale locally or when I lived outside.

[MacGyver]

i'm on the beat for a DAT deck and some tapes. PIONEER made a nice one in the late '80s that never seemed to make it over here...

[stuwee]

I was living in NYC in the 80's and DAT's had just been made avaliable. a store called DAT's Incredable opened selling gray market machines, Sony, Pioneer, Denon and others. Of course I had to have one:cool: It was a Japan model DTC-55ES. 100volt,IIRC $849.95(1989). They nicely included a step-up transformer which I still have if anyone needs one.

At the time I liked it, digital was all the rage. It must have had a pretty good D/A converter because it didn't sound as harsh as the CDP's of the era. I had nothing but trouble with the transport.*bomb*. It was stolen as well. I never knew if it had the functions that were posted above(the code resetting) I still have the Japanese manuel, I can't read it. They gave me a translated copy that was just as worthless IMHO. So I never got to use all the many functions. Oh well! cie la vie!

When it worked it was quite fun. I have no use for one in my life at this time.

[Marc Hugo]

I have a DCC deck - a Philips DCC-600. It's very well built and neatly laid out and it sounds very refined. It also plays back ordinary cassettes and has a drawer loading mechanism which is quite neat(like a Denon DRS model).

One can get DCC blanks in the more specialised stores in the UK and Europe. It is, from a sound point of view the best sounding data-reduced format. PASC 4:1 sounded less "vagued out" on busy and complex passage than mini-disc - even when Sony went to the enth degree of refining beyond ATRAC-5.0(I think it was ATRAC-R) which I heard on an otherwise very beautiful Sony MDJSE-555ES. (Something like that model number). I listened to that unit at Harrrods of all places. Nonetheless, both DCC and Minidisc are still way beyond other reduced formats such as MPEG, including any supposed "lossless packing" concepts from Apple/Meridian.

[hifi_nut]

I owned a Philips DCC-600 in the 90´s, too. Sounded pretty good, but unfortunately the Philips / Sony stupid format war killed both it and Mini-Disc, and all of a sudden I couldn´t get any blank tapes in my country, as Philips let the formatt fall overnight.

When the stand alone Philips CDR-770 hit the market I trashed the DCC. Couldn´t find any buyers, so after a few years in a closet, I dumped it.

Jorge

[Eldorado]

I had an Aiwa portable DAT deck in the early 90s. Loved it. But it went into storage with all the DAT tapes for about 8 years, kept in far from ideal conditions. I was reunited with it a couple of years ago, and it seemed to play fine for a few weeks, then chewed up one of my tapes. I started dismantling the unit to cut the tape out, but couldn't get past removing a few bits of the outer casework. It looks like it just wasn't made to be opened.

I've been mulling over the idea of picking up a secondhand component-sized deck, which would cost around $300 here. They seem to be easily available. I haven't had a chance to test more than a couple of my old tapes though, and they may not be functioning properly. It would be a lot of money to blow if the hardware couldn't play the software.

[Marc Hugo]

I had an Aiwa portable DAT deck in the early 90s. Loved it. But it went into storage with all the DAT tapes for about 8 years, kept in far from ideal conditions. I was reunited with it a couple of years ago, and it seemed to play fine for a few weeks, then chewed up one of my tapes. I started dismantling the unit to cut the tape out, but couldn't get past removing a few bits of the outer casework. It looks like it just wasn't made to be opened.

I've been mulling over the idea of picking up a secondhand component-sized deck, which would cost around $300 here. They seem to be easily available. I haven't had a chance to test more than a couple of my old tapes though, and they may not be functioning properly. It would be a lot of money to blow if the hardware couldn't play the software.

I have a Philips DCC 600 - very nice machine and well built. It is quieter than tape intrinsically and better sounding than low end analogue tape and in the narrow sense of noise floors. It seems reliable too. It's no match for better analogue decks, particularly with Dolby S. But is sounds cleaner and more detailed than my MD deck which I have loaned to my brother. Both formats, like CD recordable, do not only suffer from 0dB overload limitations but also "vague out" when there are busy data-rich passages. Not even Sony's ATRAC-R I think it is is, has fixed this. As for DAT - its a pro-format to my mind. The portable one is going to give hassles sooner or later because it uses a helican scan head and is very complicated mechanically. Those who have not expereinced this are fortunate and careful. Well done - because it is indeed a great tool for live event recording.

Marc

[jjucius]

This is what i use for digital tape*eyepop*

sony pcm 3324a

[Beechwoods]

Wow... that is very nice... I know someone with a Nagra D (open reel / spinning head). Amazing piece of kit. I have a couple of DAT machines which I still use for the occasional field recording and so I can transfer old DAT tapes. DAT is a great medium only spoilt by drop-out (and tape availability now, it's harder to get DAT tape than it is decent analogue cassettes).

[Nakdoc]

A few of you have misconceptions about CD , DAt, DCC and PCM. These are all digital formats, but they are "not the same as"...
The first DAT tape I ever heard was Dancin' Dan's grey market Aiwa portable with some Dead board mixes in the mid 80's. Bass was remarkable, and the high frequency glare that causes me to avoid CD to this day was absent. Since then Nashville became the DAT capital of the US, until everyone moved to ADAT. I find DAT to be far superior to CD sound. Service issues are lowest for the Sony decks, highest for the Technics. Many brands such as Pioneer rebadged the Sonys. We service Sony and Aiwa if anyone needs us.

[Beechwoods]

A few of you have misconceptions about CD , DAt, DCC and PCM. These are all digital formats, but they are "not the same as"...

DCC is lossy anyway. It really can't be considered in the same way as non-lossy formats like CD, DAT, PCM. The harshness often associated with CD isn't so much down to the number of samples or wordlength, but the quality of the digital to analogue conversion that turns the noughts and ones into amplifiable sound. Some say that CD hasn't improved much since 1989, it's just got cheaper. DAT and the professional digital formats were aimed at the top end and the electronics in and out were designed to be better than most consumer CD reproduction units at the time...

The person I know with the Nagra D sometimes use the DAC's on that to knock the edges of an otherwise harsh digital transfer from CD...

I must admit that I love the sound I get from my DATs. Very 'true' and completely rock-solid. Apart from the drop-out issue on older tapes!

[JaeTee]

I never had a DCC tape machine, but I understand they have a function that's useful now, in that they will give a digital output of the analog signals from playback of analog cassette tapes.


Recent discussions in a DCC related thread revealed that this is not the case. DCC decks will not convert an analog tape to a digital signal via playback. Analog tape = analog out only, it will not send a signal to the digital-out if an analgo tape is being played. The A/D converter does not work that way...

[shstrang98]

I've had one since 1996. The system should have at least had tape the size of 8mm (some 8mm sony vcr's had digital audio but it was limited to 32khz if I rem correctly).

Most of the tapes I used were 90 meter dds tapes since they were easily obtainable from the local Office Depot.

Every tape I have still plays perfectly today including the 90meter ones. The only tape I have ever had that had diginoise was a Sony 120 min audio dat tape and it was recorded on another machine at a radio station: a worn out sony consumer dat. I have some recorded on a panasonic 3500 that also play back perfectly on mine.

The first recording I made made my jaw drop even though it was via analog inputs from a cd player. Knowing that it was tape and sounded so unbelievably good made a major impression on me.

Oddly enough I read somewhere a few years back (stereophile maybe? Pro Audio Review? don't remember ) that dat recorders (even high end pro units) suffered from worse jitter than cd players.