Yamaha vs Nakamichi [Archive]

Rat44

07-23-2008, 08:45 AM

I have owned many cassette decks in the past.
In the 70's it was mostly Technics , Pioneer and Akai.
In the 80's I started using Yamaha and still use them .
Am I missing something by not looking at Nakamichi ?
They seem to have a huge following.
I was under the impression that Nak and Yamaha were pretty much equal in the build quality.
Any insight from the tech's viewpoint?

MacGyver

07-23-2008, 05:05 PM

i'm afraid i wont be of much help. i have had nothing but straight PIONEER decks from my very first seven years ago to present. from a 1988 CT-980W, to a 1975 CT-F2121 that literally recorded for all of five minutes before it died, to a 1994 CT-W603RS that was a total POS. i couldn't get rid of it fast enough, then to a 1989 CT-W600R, and finally to one of my three dream decks, the 1989 CT-W910R. at any rate, i have never heard anything about YAMAHA, but plenty on Nakamichi. all very positive. they do indeed seem to be generally regarded as the world's finest cassette decks...

Scorpion8

07-23-2008, 06:10 PM

Am I missing something by not looking at Nakamichi ?

IMHO .....

They have a cult following, but so did the Rev. Jim Jones. Naks are good decks, and early in the tape era they were technologically superior, and better in build quality also. By the mid-80's, many others (Yamaha, Denon, HK, etc) were starting to catch up with the dual-capstan 3-head, 3 motor drive systems, and prices and build costs were starting to affect Nakamichi. Nak would have never made (IMHO) the BX-1's of the world if they hadn't had to try and reach lower. Other makers sought to reach higher, while still keeping costs down.

Don't get me wrong, I have 3 Nak decks (LX-3, 480, and 581) and they are all nice. But I have other decks that compare more favorably than these. Of course, these aren't TOTL Dragons or CR-7a's, but they are good decks nonetheless.

Of the 19 decks I have, only 1 Nak is an everyday deck and it's hooked to this PC. My standard play decks are three Denon's and Teac (in various locations).

So, grab a Nak if you care too. They are getting where parts and repairs are more astronomical than others. But they are nice to hold, pretty to look at, and ya gotta have one (at least) to make up your own mind.

Rat44

07-23-2008, 07:07 PM

I have a Teac V-95RX I also run.
The Teacs have a good rep for their R2R's so I took a chance on the Teac.
It is also one of their TOTL decks.
It goes good with my Yamaha KX-1200.
My wife uses a KX-390.
I started with a K-950 but it was stolen.

Scorpion8

07-23-2008, 09:21 PM

I have in daily use at work a Denon DR-M20 and a Teac V-1RX. Both are 3 head decks, and each does something better than the other. The Teac has dbx, which is nice and fun to play with. The Denon is a superb deck and makes nice recordings. At home I use a Denon DRM-710 3-head deck, two DRM-540 2-head decks (absolutely BPC but superb tape makers, simple, easy to fix/repair/maintain and stylish too!), and the LX-3 with the PC. I had a Yamaha KX-720 w/dbx and loved it and it's styling, but it had record issues while playback was superb. I may try and get it back now that my repair skills are growing with confidence. It's been awhile since I seen the magic blue smoke escape..... :D

Rat44

07-23-2008, 09:33 PM

MacGyver

07-23-2008, 09:45 PM

my first actual CDPs were a basic, non remote controllable single disc KENWOOD, and a crap quality MAGNAVOX 6-disc that literally looked as if it was dredged out of a sewer when i got it. i then graduated to a PIONEER PD-M50 and a DENON DCD-1500. all thrift finds. today, i am quite satisfied with prime examples of a PD-M6 and a personally modified DCD-1500...

Scorpion8

07-23-2008, 10:00 PM

I have never had a Denon deck but my first CD players were Denon.
I have heard good things about them.
The 720 may be worth having fixed.
The Naks and Yamahas both used parts sourced from a common OEM supplier.The name escapes me but it started with an s.
Does the 720 have the controls behind the flip down panel?

Sankyo transports (not Sanyo), and they were common in many other dual-capstan decks also. Good, reliable and simple and held thier tolerances well for the time period. No, the 720 (shown below, a pic I stole off eBay) had all the controls out front but were very well laid out and superbly styled.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/YamahaK-720CassetteDeck04.jpg

Rat44

07-23-2008, 10:08 PM

Yes, that was the company I was thinking about.
When I got my 1200 I took it to our local audio repair whiz and he just happened to have a Nak Dragon on the bench.
He pulled the cover off my Yamaha and pointed out the similarities.
I always liked Yamaha stying, kinda' understated.

Scorpion8

07-23-2008, 10:17 PM

I'm still on the hunt for good Nak decks, but I won't chase them. Prices are odd at times, and repair costs are even higher. If I could, I'd pick up a couple more Naks of various makes and models. But if I don't and die, I won't be disappointed. I've seen some sweet Yammie decks, and that K-720 has held my desire for quite some time. Yammie early stuff (late 70's) was no better and no worse than anyone else's offerings in those days, as they weren't known as a tape house. But they did get better, and I'd even say their late offerings rivaled anything Pioneer ES or Akai was producing at the times. Except for the fact that I'm a die-hard GX head lover, so Akai is my brand.

Rat44

07-23-2008, 10:28 PM

I have had Akai R2R's but not their cassette decks.
I even had the R2R with the 8 track in the side.
I think I bought it in about 74 or 75.
Didn't the GX heads use glass ?

Scorpion8

07-23-2008, 10:42 PM

Yup. Glass heads, and supposedly almost impermeable to wear. My GX-267D reel has them, along with several of my cassette decks. My college roomie had a Teac, but my Dad had an Akai M-8 from the PX in Vietnam and that got me fixed, as it became mine when he died.

Rat44

07-23-2008, 10:53 PM

I was in the Army in the 70 and 80's.
We were able to test a lot of stereo gear.
The PX had a no questions asked return policy.
We abused that policy badly.
Some of us changed out our whole system 2 or 3 times a month.
The bad stuff got weeded out quickly.
Thats why you see a lot of certain models from that era.
The good stuff sold a lot of items.

Scorpion8

07-23-2008, 10:57 PM

Hey, as late as 1980 I used to bring the AAFES PX catalog to college with me just to drool. Navy life in the 80's and 90's was a little different...

niklasthedolphin

07-24-2008, 04:39 AM

Best of Nakamichi's cassettes were and still are better than the best Yamaha's.
If you want better than the best Nakamichi's, you'll have to search for Tandberg's best.

"dolph"

Rat44

07-24-2008, 09:00 AM

I wouldn't think of comparing Yamahas to pro decks.
Tandberg, Tascam and others were aimed at pro use.
I was referring to consumer models meant for home use.

Marc Hugo

07-24-2008, 10:31 AM

Hi Rat,

Yammie or Nak?

Despite owning four Naks I have trouble saying this or that manufacturer made the "best". I would understand the following they enjoy though. I think a perfectly tuned Nak probably does represent the amongst the best. Perhaps it is the best sounding, but they are very idiosyncratic.

I have heard some real good 'uns from other manufactuers too. I like the sounds that Nak make, but I also like the Pioneer sound. I enjoy ReVox, especially the B 710 and the later 215 model I think it is. The pro-use model C115 also sounds great - very stable. I have heard the big model from Tandberg - the 3014 and it is weighty and impressive although you have to live with seriously agricultural looks. The great Alpine/Alpage models were fantastic - the AL-80, 85 and 90. I have an AL-50 and even that is a magnificent machine (born in 1983). It's a question that is down to taste. I have only recently "discovered" Yamaha. I am very impressed, really. The sound has a crystal quality about it. Then again, I was just listening to my Rotel last night - a new (barely used still) RD-960BX. These use Alpine transports. Fantastic bass if you didn't know. I have a TASCAM too - 112, series 1. Tough as it gets, nearly has the Massey Ferguson couture of a heavyweight Tandberg but not as good sounding.

I can't choose....Vive la difference!!

Scorpion8

07-24-2008, 11:27 AM

Best of Nakamichi's cassettes were and still are better than the best Yamaha's.
If you want better than the best Nakamichi's, you'll have to search for Tandberg's best.

"dolph"

Yea, but let's compare equals. The Dragon may have been Nak's best, but you paid an arm and a leg for it and still do. Compare a $500 Yammie against a $500 Nak. They're equal. In fact, a Yammie of the same era and price point was superior to a BX-1 of the same period (IMHO). Let's compare sheep to sheep, please.

niklasthedolphin

07-24-2008, 11:58 AM

Yea, but let's compare equals. The Dragon may have been Nak's best, but you paid an arm and a leg for it and still do. Compare a $500 Yammie against a $500 Nak. They're equal. In fact, a Yammie of the same era and price point was superior to a BX-1 of the same period (IMHO). Let's compare sheep to sheep, please.

You are probably so right there, my friend.

But I have no interest in second-best if I can avoid it (with my, otherwise, humble standard of living).
o-o:-)

Try listen to the Bang & Olufson (B&O) Beocord 9000.
These people invented HX-Pro.
The deck is very good sounding and very cheap on the used market.
It probably is fragile and technocratic built.

Bang for the money if working.

"dolph"

stuwee

07-24-2008, 12:01 PM

I'd love to participate in this discussion however, I don't have a Yamaha, I just have a NAK for a doorstop, abeit, a very pretty doorstop *bang* *hearts*, thanks macster for the lead....*check*
Any NAKer's wanna help a knackered NAK, see the Help forum.....*reelspin**reelstop
Craig

braxus

07-24-2008, 02:41 PM

If you want better than the best Nakamichi's, you'll have to search for Tandberg's best.

"dolph"

From what I've heard this seems to be the case. One day I hope to find out for myself too.

speakerman1

08-23-2009, 05:37 PM

I'm looking at a Yammie K-720. Does anyony know how it compares to a Nak?

Scorpion8

08-23-2009, 07:45 PM

I'm looking at a Yammie K-720. Does anyony know how it compares to a Nak?

One item I've always found hard to compare is Nak-to-any deck side by side and not because one is so much better than another. The thing is the equalization curves are different. As an example, I had a stack of six various decks on the side of my desk at work that I used to exercise periodically to work out cheap thrift tapes to eliminate squeal. Once I had a tape in an HK or Denon deck and then moved it right to a Nak 480. It sounded much "different" and I won't say better or worse, just different. It's akin to using loudness or bass boost and then trying to compare one system to another without loudness or bass boost. The overall playback level was quite a bit higher on the Nak (although the meters read the same "level" as with other decks) it was just louder. Psychoacoustically, you could tell the whole equalization curve was "different".

Frankly, if I had a good condition Yammie K-720 I'd be happy. Those are good decks. The purists will tell you that the Nak or Tandberg "grail" decks are the end all be all, but at what price to keep a Dragon working?

Just my humble opinion.

speakerman1

08-29-2009, 12:49 AM

The price is a big thing I noticed. I use to love the sound of yamahas. In the older days not so much today. Well I'll see if I like them. If you see it for sale then you will know.

speakerman1

08-30-2009, 02:26 PM

Just bought a K1000. What is your opinion? No belts a direct drive.

speakerman1

09-01-2009, 01:18 AM

What is real time tape monitoring?

close652

09-01-2009, 04:32 AM

You hear what is just recorded on the tape via the third head and tape out (or headphone out).

speakerman1

09-01-2009, 05:13 AM

OK what is linear tape measuring? Thanks close for the other answer.
Larry

speakerman1

09-09-2009, 01:18 AM

Just recieved the Yamaha KX-1200U. Compared to the Nak it has more bottom end. I like the clock instead of a counter. I miss the FF when there is a gap in the music. I miss my auto-reverse. I liked the price 46.00 to my door. Has a few problems that can be fixed later.

perry

09-24-2009, 08:47 AM

Still looking to find a KX-1200...nice find for $46!! see my K-1020 post comparing my recordings on my Nak RX-505 to the K-1020.

Naknut

09-24-2009, 10:07 AM

Love my Yamaha KX-1200U, lots of good features for the money. One of the best features is the remote that comes with the unit. You can search for blanks and also go directly to songs by the remote. Also you can increase the FF speed from the remote. If you don't have the remote you are missing some extra features. I don't know how hard they are to find but the model number is Yamaha (RS-K12).

Dragonbreath

11-19-2009, 09:04 PM

I recently aquired a Dragon...I have a K1000 and a Teac v900x as well....I haven't checked it vs. the Teac yet but did bring up the K1000 to do a shootout and not sure if it's Yamaha's "Natural Sound" or not, but the Dragon has a more robust rich lush sound. Don't get me wrong, the Yamaha sounds good, but is much more polite. If they were speakers..I'd say the Yamaha had the laid back New England sound and the Nak had flavor like a JBL.

perry

11-20-2009, 09:36 AM

I have 3 Naks and 4 Yamahas, tho only 4 different models, a Dragon, 2 RX-505s, 2 K-1020s, and 2 K-960. The places where the Yamaha K-1020 betters the Naks is on some features, like HX-pro recording, dbx recording, real time counter, automatic calibration, ease of maintenance, low cost, and interior layout. The W&F is nowhere near the Naks (even belt drive to belt drive), the high ends are clearly inferior, the dolby execution does not seem to be as good, and they are physically louder decks. Great sounding, don't get me wrong, but not in the same league sonically, as TOTL 3 head Naks.

EDIT: 2 years later, I have 18 different Naks and added a KX-1200u Yamaha. The Naks kick butt in everything. With the exception of dbx & HX-pro, a CR-7 does everything better.

chan tran

11-18-2011, 01:04 PM

I passed the Nakamichi back in the late 70's when I bought a good number of HiFi equipment. I got a Teac A-7300 reel to reel and I was confident for about the same money it would out perform the Nak 1000. (I am not sure though). Later I need a portable cassette and was considering the Nak 550 but then I went for the Yamaha TC-800GL. I had this deck for a while and sold it when I got rid of all my Hifi stuff to buy photographic equipment.
In 1987 I started to put together a system again. Initially I skipped the tape deck, waiting for something to happen in the digital field. But when I saw a Yamaha K-1020 on clearance I got it for $300. Thought I got a good deal but after I brought it home it ate several of my tapes. Luckily I returned it and got my money back. Picked up a Nak 1000 used for over $300 and this one didn't work right although a very nice looking deck. So I returned the thing and ordered a Nak CR-7a. I had to wait 3 months for my deck to arrived. The dealer was so nice to let me borrow their display model for the whole 3 months. When I got my Nak CR7 I was alarmed to find out that my deck was much noisier on FF and REW than the loaner. I found out later that was because my deck had the new gear drive and this was in 1989.
I enjoyed the Nak CR7 very much and it's still working great after 22 years. I don't think Yamaha deck is as good as the Nak. But I still love the look of the TC-800GL so I bought a used one. Replaced the belt and it is working fine. Not a great performer but a great looking deck.