BIC Cassette Decks...a PITA or what??

[retrokeeper]

Can someone give me a heads-up on changing belts on a BIC 2-speed cassette deck,mainly for the T-3 and T-4.I have the covers off,the T-4 has solenoid control,2 motors,and a butt-load of crap in the way,just to change 2 measly belts?!?!...oh I forgot,there is the counter belt too!!.The T-2 doesn't look as painful,but STILL has crap in the way.Jeez...why could they have taken Sony's lead on the older one I just changed out,remove 3 screws,remove a metal plate,remove belts,put new belts in,secure everything back..walla,done in 10 minutes!! Rob

[Des-Lab]

Wow. Forget the servicing for a second. I'd be curious to know where you even FOUND that thing and what drew you to it in the first place. Many people here might not have ever even HEARD of BIC (and that's "bee-eye-see", not "bick").

Is their quality even any good? As I recall, even when they were around, they were never really a big player. They were IIRC always trying to pass themselves off as a "more affordable alternative" to some of the name brands, the way DoKorder was always trying to be "the same as Teac for half price".

BIC went under in, or around 1980 also IIRC.

Would love to see some pix.

[Rat44]

Wish I could help ya out.
I took the cover off a nice Aiwa, said "hell no,no way"and put it back together.
Seems they don't think the stuff needs to be worked on in the future when they design it.
Seems a shame all the decks sitting for want of a belt.
I take it this is not a high-end machine.
I took my last Yamaha to John at NW Audio to be serviced.
Good luck.

[retrokeeper]

Well,I'm up for the task,just thought someone might have a little insight into these decks.They don't belong to me,a audio friend wants me to re-belt them,so I thought I'd give it a try,have re-belted other brands of decks,but these BIC decks have no pity on/for those who wish to work on them.These are quality units and are built nice,plus they have that gimicky 2 speed thing,an idea that did not fly well with audio consumers that wanted reel-to-reel specs. on a cassette deck,but cut their recording time on a C-90 tape to half of what it could be.I had the T-2 deck a long time ago,was a great machine,and played tapes nicely...in either speed. Rob

[braxus]

I was looking at getting a BIC T4M deck. Apprently they sound very good especially when used at 3.75 IPS. Some say they don't sound like cassettes at all when in high speed. But since I have so many decks already, I decided to forgo getting one. I have seen a couple on Ebay last year.

[stuwee]

I got a B.I.C. T-1 under a desk, I got it years ago not working, it's the BOTL. took it to a tech, he fixed it and said "I never want to see that thing Again"!!

I got it for a co-worker who had a band, she wanted to tape some jams, the quality wasn't up to snuff compared to RtR and the cut the mins in half part wasn't worth the tape they thought. Well the poor thing quit working again. she gave it back to me. It didn't sound that bad to me, I'll agree with my tech, Good Luck!

[Scorpion8]

Some BIC's can be great performers. They made decent stuff (for awhile) so if you can keep 'em playing, enjoy them!

[stuwee]

I can open my T-1 up tomorrow and take a looksy and pics if you like, I'm not sure if any parts are interchangable with the bigger ones or not??

[retrokeeper]

Thanks for the offer Stuwee,but I found some info on the net about takin' them things apart,and....it aint fun*fit*,I can tell you that...more to come later...I hope!!The T-4 is a nightmare!! Rob

[clhboa]

I saw a T-2 at a Vintage electronics show a few months back. The guy wanted 30 bucks for it. It looked really nice so I asked for a demo. The guy said sure it works great. He grabs some really cheap ass cassette and pops it in. It's some weird spoken word thing he recorded. He says, "let me fast forward to some music". So after he fast forwarded and rewound a few times the thing wouldn't play anymore. It would play for about 2 seconds and shut off. Trying a different tape didn't help either. Needless to say I passed on it. I'd have rather had the T-3 anyway.

[stuwee]

Thanks for the offer Stuwee,but I found some info on the net about takin' them things apart,and....it aint fun*fit*,I can tell you that...more to come later...I hope!!The T-4 is a nightmare!! Rob

Rob, good saves me some time, I'll save that project for later, I remember when these first came out, big to-do about the 2-speed thing, IIRC I bought my Teac instead of the T-3(?) the Teac had a better rep

I like my little T1 looks wise, and since alot of folks have never seen one, maybe I'll find a corner for it, Nah!!

[niklasthedolphin]

BIC was not the only brand to make twospeed cassette decks.
Marantz was on of a few others.
They made the portable PMD 201 and the SD 9000 series.

http://www.audioscope.net/marantz-tapedeck-9000-compudeck-pi-468.html?image=0&osCsid=ae5a03fe4696a78b198de9e79a087e2b

But those two speed decks I heard, despite their good intentions on bettering the sound quality, didn't really succeed because of lack of buid quality or non-optimal circuit designs.

The same issue was with the EL-Cassettes. The intention was good but the quality of build and sound didn't show up.

And there is still the issue of length of tape for cassette decks with high speed Cassette decks.

If better quality wanted I think there's no way around the R2R's.

"dolph"

[musicman]

I remember I had some BIC 3 way speakers back in the early 80's which sounded pretty good from what I remember. Thanks for the flashback! *hypnot*

[todd33rpm]

The BIC I found at a Goodwill maybe a year ago has a very sweet and natural midrange presence. Jazz and the like sounds startlingly good on the thing. My first recording was a dub of Joni Mitchell's Hejira, followed by some Pat Metheny ca. 1981 (As Falls Witchita, So Falls Witchita Falls b/w Offramp). The bass presence on the Metheny moved me to tears. I know making a dub is supposed to sound worse, but with the BIC it sounded like something more was revealed instead. (The dub was to a Type II Maxell - I think an XLII.)

I bought it thinking, well, if it doesn't work, it was only five bucks, and then was surprised to discover that it's one of my favorite decks, especially for vinyl. Whatever it takes to fix it, do so! If nothing else, you've got a wonderful piece of recording history.

(I knew the brand as a byproduct of working in radio. The station I'm at now had one for years, and that thing was a WORKHORSE. When they got rid of it, for no real reason, it broke my heart.)

[Skywavebe]

Hello Retro,
I have not worked on a great number of these maybe 1 or 2 while Customer Service Manager some time back. Many times there are hard transports to deal with when mechanisms are so complex and have so many levels of metal to get through just to change belts. Most of the good techs just take this kind of thing in stride. Teac did make a number of units that were a pain to work on but later on as the designs improved the repairs came down to changing an idler and replacing a lamps. Funny as it seems, I have known people to throw out $800 cassette decks for the reason that it did not work needing a cheap lamp. In the situation you have, I would have to see what you are talking about to make a comment about the way it is built. But barring the impossible, I bet the repair by someone who is used to working on decks could be done.
This may be your chance to learn the process and to then become the BIC expert on the group- it all depends on how much time you want to put into the deck. Belts can appear to be the initial cause of problems but I must warn you that there are also reel table and slip clutches that also wear out with time and also need to be addressed. This is an item that has a felt pad in it that at this later time has powdered. I have taken apart $45 reel tables that went into Teac decks and rebuilt them- they work like new. Thin felt and rubber cement is all that may be needed.
Sam,

[retrokeeper]

Well,I did find a post for changing out the belts on these BIC decks,it was from an AK member who explains the procedure,with photos to boot,but it still looks way beyond my skill level for these decks.I've changed out many deck belts,but these BIC decks are a little too much for me.If I owned theses decks then I'd be more adventurous,but not so now. Rob

[Scorpion8]

..........but these BIC decks are a little too much for me.If I owned theses decks then I'd be more adventurous,but not so now.

Hey Rob -- Some piece-rate labourer put it together the first time. You CAN get the belts replaced. Take your time, document each step w/digital pics, and don't rush anything. If you want, send me the belts and the deck and I'll send it back done. No charge except for shipping. Jim

[Emo-Fan]

Hey, Scorpion8!

Got my new computer up and running. Not bad for a Liberal arts major with a PhD, huh?

I had a BIC 'table at PSU. PITA! Remember me talking about it?

BIC cassette decks offered two speeds (1 7/8 and 3 3/4 ips) for improved resolution and frequency response. They were about the only ones who did that. Used up a lot of tape...

Emo-Fan

[ferriteman]

[QUOTE=niklasthedolphin;3542]BIC was not the only brand to make twospeed cassette decks.
Marantz was on of a few others.
They made the portable PMD 201 and the SD 9000 series.

Actually, a number of the Marantz decks were 2 speed. The SD 4000 and SD5000 were both 2 speed decks. The SD4000 for sure: I own one. And I have never gotten around to trying out the higher speed! I'm not even sure if it works! Some tech guy once told me that the higher speed requires a special motor, so when the original one goes...and you can't find an exact replacement...the deck ends being a "one" speed anyway.

[Eminence1963]

Wow. Forget the servicing for a second. I'd be curious to know where you even FOUND that thing and what drew you to it in the first place. Many people here might not have ever even HEARD of BIC (and that's "bee-eye-see", not "bick").

Is their quality even any good? As I recall, even when they were around, they were never really a big player. They were IIRC always trying to pass themselves off as a "more affordable alternative" to some of the name brands, the way DoKorder was always trying to be "the same as Teac for half price".

BIC went under in, or around 1980 also IIRC.

Would love to see some pix.

You want pics here they are*wave*
I just went to a yard sale around the corner from me this am, and this guy had a BIC sitting in the pile of stuff for 10$...
Now I have 5 cassette decks that I really never use, so I told him that I would give him $5 if it works he plugged it it and it worked! All functions even the 2 speeds played well... So just because It had the higher speed I brought it home with me. Cleaned it up and ran some tape through it. Sounds great thru the Grados. I'll b hooking it up later to the main rig and see how it sounds.*yes*
I got some DCC tapes from a more than generous TH's member this past week and have been playing that DCC deck all this week and man or man this thing plays a digital tape like no cassette can. *bigthumbsup*
I dont think the belts are a problem to replace in this deck versused the Pioneer 900
Speaking of belts, Ill b ordering up some belts for that BIC here shortly since I know for sure the belt will be needing to b replaced.*flame*
I head that the BIC at high speed is a dragon killer!!!!
I dont have a dragon, but I'll b putting it up agains my DCC and my TEAC A6300 to see what is the outcome. I'll keep ya all posted!*yip**yeahthat*

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[retrokeeper]

Well E1963....your T-2 does look ALOT easier to work on than these 2 other BIC decks I have.I still need to figure out how to rebelt these monsters.I'll try and take a photo or 2 of them with & without they're covers on to see if it will jog anyone's memory on how to replace the belts. Robn

[Eminence1963]

QUOTE=retrokeeper;156627]Well E1963....your T-2 does look ALOT easier to work on than these 2 other BIC decks I have.I still need to figure out how to rebelt these monsters.I'll try and take a photo or 2 of them with & without they're covers on to see if it will jog anyone's memory on how to replace the belts. Robn[/QUOTE]

Yea that would b nice to see what ur up against!*scratchchin**grin*
Once u get those decks up and running, u will b suprised how great it sounds*Hi5*
Some people might not like the shorter recording time, but the sound it produces at 3 3/4 ips is amazing*yesss*

[Nakdoc]

The T-2 is no knight in two-speed armor, but it is a natural sounding deck. I would group the BIC with HK, Aiwa, and Onkyo decks of the same period.

[20tajk7]

21075

Hi, this mechanism is very similar to that of a Luxman K-5A ! *eyepop*
21134
(It is being repaired, normally the other way with the motor on the top)
It is very difficult to repair because there are 4 idlers tyres and 3 belts ! *headache*

[retrokeeper]

Now if I could figure out which size belts and idlers I would be dealing with in these 2 decks,I'd be half way through the battle!! Rob

[Eminence1963]

The T-2 is no knight in two-speed armor, but it is a natural sounding deck. I would group the BIC with HK, Aiwa, and Onkyo decks of the same period.

Really?*eyepop*
Do the other decks u mentioned have the speed capability that the BIC has?*?confused*
Id have to admit that the BIC at normal speed sounds like any other cassette deck, but crank up the speed to 3 3/4 ips and its like a reel to reel playing at a 7 1/2 ips versu 3 3/4 IPS! Add dolby into the mix and its even better! *djparty* And I dont like Dolby B at all! *yeahthat* That BIC with DBX encoding would probaly sound outstanding! But I dont have a DBX unit right now to test that out*fit*
My conclusions is that the BIC at 3 3/4 ips can keep up with my Phillips DCC deck and my TEAC A6300 RTR sound wise*thumbsup**yes**jammin*
Granted it will eat a couple of cassetts at the higher speed, but Cassettes are still fairly inexpensive to b had.
My*twocents*

[Eminence1963]

Do any TH's on here have those two decks to do a side by side comparison?
Im for one am kinda curious!*btoast*

[Eminence1963]

Now if I could figure out which size belts and idlers I would be dealing with in these 2 decks,I'd be half way through the battle!! Rob

Hey Rob when U get those decks up and running let me know what U think of the sound?
I'll bet ur gonna say pardon my French *omg**WTF**yip**btoast*

[eclectiktronik]

Anyone know if these were common ouside the US? never seen one in Europe. Want one now!!

[Pacific Stereo]

These are great decks. I have a T-3 and a T-4 (both need overhauls ATM) and at double speed will really impress you. Even at normal speed, they are quite good. And they're very nice-looking, as well.

B·I·C stands for British Industries Corporation, and they were the purveyors of Wharfdale speakers and imported other products like Garrards and Luxman.

I remember when they introduced their own branded turntables. They did this ad campaign in magazines telling people that something special was coming, and literally had folks lined up at stores (reminds me of the Windows 95 launch) to buy the 960 or 980 turntables. These were quite innovative- the turntables were belt-drive, with an inexpensive but decent arm that worked pretty well, and they were easily switched from single disc to 6-disc changer operation. They offered different bases, you bought the dust cover separately, and the tables underwent some slow evolution over the years even though the model number did not change. They changed the headshell (lower mass and also allowing VTA adjustment for single or multiple disc operation) and made a number of other minor changes (such as the record clamp being removable instead of fixed like in early models). I believe that the 940 came a bit after the launch of the 960/980 tables. My mom still has a 960. I have a 980 here in the lab.

Later, they introduced a line of speaker that were very efficient, called the Formula series. Their gimmick was a constricted port that they called the Venturi, which they claimed worked better than regular ports. Depending upon who you ask, the speakers either sounded awful or great. My dad still has a set of original Formula 6 speakers.

Of course the turntable line evolved to different models. One of the innovations was a digital speed control (I've still got one of those tables as well) with opto-coupled feedback and a lower mass tonearm that was superior to the original arm.

They then launched the cassette deck line. I can't recall if they were the first to do double-speed or not, but they were very early. Another innovation was the Beam Box, an FM antenna that had user-switchable elements that would allow you to minimize multipath.

B·I·C discontinued the Formula line of speakers and introduced other products over the years, but rather faded from favor. Then I believe that their founder died, and B·I·C was pretty much dead as well. They have been reincarnated as B·I·C America, though I know nothing about any of the products from that company.

And Des is correct. The boxes had, "Please say, 'Bee-Eye-See'" printed on them.

[J English Smith]

All I remember is their colorful little logo, from the turntables. I always thought it was a good logo, but the build quality seemed to be a step down from Dual or Garrard or Thorens.

[Nakdoc]

The other decks are not 2 speed. I'm speaking from a sound quality standpoint. You'd have to use a 3 head T 3 at double speed to beat a Nak. IIRC the T 4 was a ferrite combo head deck. I can't recall how it sounded in comparison.
Double speed also gives you more headroom. Those of you who do not like Dolby need to learn to adjust record calibration! When record cal is adjusted, the differences between dolby on and off are all but impossible to hear, remarkable for a circuit that seems to be altering the signal a lot. I consider Dolby a happy accident, otherwise Ray Dolby would have to be an audio genius!

[OLIRC]

Anyone know if these were common ouside the US? never seen one in Europe. Want one now!!
There is one T-3 up for sale on a Swedish auction site but it needs new belts. Other than that some cosmetic flaws.

Don´t know if i can put a direct link to that auction site?