Tape Types

[Nak_novice]

looking at some maxell tapes on eBay, some are 180B, some EE, what are the different types and which are recommended?

[Nak_novice]

Having a look around, I notice 4 different package designs for Maxell UD 35-180, 1 x Maxell UD XL 35-180B, 3 x Maxell XL I 35-180B & 2 x MAXELL XL II (EE) 35-180, and there maybe more.

Could anyone advise if there are any quality issues with any of these tapes and which order they were made? Is one particular one better sounding than another - Opinions?

(EE Tape Is different of course)

Thanks

[Des-Lab]

Short answer is that any tape that says "Maxell" on it is pretty much assured to work just fine when you get it. Of course all bets are off if the tapes are used. Then it's an unknown quantity as how the tape was treated is not known.

The "180B" tapes (UD-XL and XLI) simply mean that those tapes are back coated.

"EE" (XLII) stands for "Extra Efficiency". That's the reel to reel equivalent of High Bias. Only usable on a handful of Teac and Akai decks. In my opinion, they don't sound all that great and most other 'conventional' oxides (including Maxells own UD and XLI) can and do perform better. To that end, I wouldn't really 'recommend' any of them. They do have collectible and curiosity value because of their relative rarity. But if you were to buy one for the price they typically go for ($50-$100), you are going to be disappointed with the way it sounds. If you can get one cheap just to satisfy your curiosity, then great.

The different 'packaging' simply corresponds to when the different tapes were made. I dont have time to post pictures right this second, but the order was as follows:

UD:
Gold Box (1975-1980)
White/black box (1980-1983)
Gray/black box (1983-1986)
Blue/black box (1986-2002)

[Nak_novice]

Short answer is that any tape that says "Maxell" on it is pretty much assured to work just fine when you get it. Of course all bets are off if the tapes are used. Then it's an unknown quantity as how the tape was treated is not known.

The "180B" tapes (UD-XL and XLI) simply mean that those tapes are back coated.

"EE" (XLII) stands for "Extra Efficiency". That's the reel to reel equivalent of High Bias. Only usable on a handful of Teac and Akai decks. In my opinion, they don't sound all that great and most other 'conventional' oxides (including Maxells own UD and XLI) can and do perform better. To that end, I wouldn't really 'recommend' any of them. They do have collectible and curiosity value because of their relative rarity. But if you were to buy one for the price they typically go for ($50-$100), you are going to be disappointed with the way it sounds. If you can get one cheap just to satisfy your curiosity, then great.

The different 'packaging' simply corresponds to when the different tapes were made. I dont have time to post pictures right this second, but the order was as follows:

UD:
Gold Box (1975-1980)
White/black box (1980-1983)
Gray/black box (1983-1986)
Blue/black box (1986-2002)

This is a great help thanks Matt.

[ferriteman]

...this would be really helpful to those of us just getting into (or are thinking about getting into) reel-to-reel. I mean, like is NOS Maxell and some Quantegy the only thing available these days? Then there's what retailers are out there for this stuff.

Matt, I'm dropping you a hint here, you have a lot of knowledge in this area...

[braxus]

Check the US Recording site for new tapes. They sell RMGI and ATR new. I will be placing my order from them once I get my own deck.

[Fast Forward]

I prefer new verses used but the price is a liitle out of my budget on 35-180s,so I rely on Seller reputation and feedback,,I just bought a Maxell UD 35-180 one pass for 20.00 bucks,I usually have better luck on un-used 35-90s MTC

[Des-Lab]

...this would be really helpful to those of us just getting into (or are thinking about getting into) reel-to-reel. I mean, like is NOS Maxell and some Quantegy the only thing available these days? Then there's what retailers are out there for this stuff.

Matt, I'm dropping you a hint here, you have a lot of knowledge in this area...


Big->--smokin--Yes!

Listing current versus old tapes is really a no brainer. The only new tapes I'm aware of are the ATR and RMGI/EMTEC ones, both being offered through USR. So basically, if it's anything besides those, it's considered NOS.

Quantegy was discontinued in spring of 2007. Maxell at the end of 2002. Everything else goes way back before that. I believe that the last of the Scotch/3M tapes were made in or around 1995. TDK stopped in 1986. And Sony, probably around the same time, though they may have been made up to around 1990. Because during that year, they could still be bought new at my local Tower Records. Though it's possible they may have been sitting on them for a few years at the time.


I have a lot of work and projects planned for the site this weekend. One of them is to create a gallery of Maxell REEL tapes the same way I did with the cassettes. So you all can have that to look forward to before long.

We will definitely have to get started on a compilation of the various tapes from over the years. But I won't be able to do much of that tonight as it's approaching bedtime.

[utahusker]

Short answer is that any tape that says "Maxell" on it is pretty much assured to work just fine when you get it. Of course all bets are off if the tapes are used. Then it's an unknown quantity as how the tape was treated is not known.

The "180B" tapes (UD-XL and XLI) simply mean that those tapes are back coated.

"EE" (XLII) stands for "Extra Efficiency". That's the reel to reel equivalent of High Bias. Only usable on a handful of Teac and Akai decks. In my opinion, they don't sound all that great and most other 'conventional' oxides (including Maxells own UD and XLI) can and do perform better. To that end, I wouldn't really 'recommend' any of them. They do have collectible and curiosity value because of their relative rarity. But if you were to buy one for the price they typically go for ($50-$100), you are going to be disappointed with the way it sounds. If you can get one cheap just to satisfy your curiosity, then great.

The different 'packaging' simply corresponds to when the different tapes were made. I dont have time to post pictures right this second, but the order was as follows:

UD:
Gold Box (1975-1980)
White/black box (1980-1983)
Gray/black box (1983-1986)
Blue/black box (1986-2002)
Unfortunately my TD 20A came with sealed and used EE tapes. Should I keep or sell these?

[Des-Lab]

Seems odd that the owner of a Tandberg deck would also have some EE tapes. Unless he had another Teac or Akai deck that he could use them on. Another (long shot IMO) possibility is maybe the TD-20A did have EE ability and I never knew about it. Or else the original owner, when he bought the deck wanted to 'use the best tape available' and unfortunately didn't understand the whole LH versus EE issue. And has been stuck with the tapes ever since. Maybe the used ones are one he tried and the sealed ones he's been sitting on ever since because they didn't work. Who knows.

My advice would be: try one of the used ones first when you get them. See how it sounds and then make a test recording and playback and see how it sounds. My prediction is that it won't sound very good at all. EE tape can be hard to work with, even on a so-equipped deck like my Teac X-2000R. Better tapes do exist and aren't hard to find.

If you find that you can't use the EE tapes to your satisfaction, then you should definitely have no trouble offloading them. You could either do a 1:1 swap for some NOS with someone or else sell them online for enough $$$ that you will be able to buy some new and/or better tape.

[utahusker]

thanks for the info Des

[fa8362]

Seems odd that the owner of a Tandberg deck would also have some EE tapes. Unless he had another Teac or Akai deck that he could use them on. Another (long shot IMO) possibility is maybe the TD-20A did have EE ability and I never knew about it.




Tandberg TD-20A SE is EE capable.

[utahusker]

Tandberg TD-20A SE is EE capable.
I tried the UD_XL and the EE and there is no comparison. The EE sounds like crap compared to the UD-XL, unless I need to set the bias different. I'll probably sell the EE unless someone can give me a hint on how to record the EE right.
thanks
James

[Des-Lab]

Unless the deck has a control switch that specifically SAYS Bias or EQ position EE, the deck is NOT EE equipped. That tape formula doesn't fall under any other setting such as "LHI" or "High Bias" or anything of that nature. It's cut and dry "EE" only. Either it says it or it doesn't. If you do not see those letters anywhere asociated with the bias settings, no amount of tweaking will allow you to use it properly. Period.

EE tape is/was the reel to reel equivalent of "High Bias" or 'Type II' as found with cassettes. It's a unique chemical formulation and has greatly different electromagnetic attributes. It was a last ditch effort to revive the dying mainstream interest in the format. The effort did not succeed. Part of the reason was that it was too little too late. The other is that the tape never really lived up to its promise and potential. It may sound good when used at slow/logging speeds such as 3 3/4. But at the higher speeds (7 1/2 and up), it was either a push or a net loss in fidelity. And at nearly twice the retail price as conventional tapes (coupled with the lack of backwards compatibility) and EE was essentially doomed from the start.

EE only carries the luster that it does because of its relative rarity and novelty. Not because it carries any additional benefits over conventional tapes. The "For Studio Mastering Use" blurb that the tape box packaging has written on it was nothing more than marketing.

To get the best use out of your Tandberg, I'll give the same advice I give everyone else: try a handful of conventional tapes at the various settings and see what sounds best. Any NON-EE tape WILL work. It's simply a process of elimination task to see what will sound BEST.

You should be safe trying any NOS Maxell UD or XLI, Quantegy, or even TDK tape. Most or all of the current RMGI/EMTEC and ATR tapes will work as well. I would advise you to avoid like the plague, anything that says Ampex. And 3M/Scotch, I'd say use at your own risk. Many of them are known sticky-shed offenders and others aren't. Usually the ones most likely to have it are the higher end makes such as Classic, Master, 206/207, 226/227, and 986/987.

[fa8362]

I tried the UD_XL and the EE and there is no comparison. The EE sounds like crap compared to the UD-XL, unless I need to set the bias different. I'll probably sell the EE unless someone can give me a hint on how to record the EE right.
thanks
James

I'm not following. Do you have a TD-20A SE or a TD-20A? Only the SE model is EE capable (I think) (normal/special equalization switch), and being EE capable doesn't imply that an EE tape would sound better than your UD-XL sample. I've never used an EE tape with mine (it's currently non-functional), but I recall people who didn't like EE tape recordings on the Tandberg TD-20A SE. So even if you experiment some more, there's no guarantee you're going to prefer the EE tape.

[fa8362]

Unless the deck has a control switch that specifically SAYS Bias or EQ position EE, the deck is NOT EE equipped. That tape formula doesn't fall under any other setting such as "LHI" or "High Bias" or anything of that nature. It's cut and dry "EE" only. Either it says it or it doesn't. If you do not see those letters anywhere asociated with the bias settings, no amount of tweaking will allow you to use it properly. Period.




I could easily be wrong about my recollections of the Tandberg TD-20A SE being EE capable. The manual never refers to "EE" specifically, nor is there any mention of it on the machine. The manual says the following: "Until now the tape noise on analog open-reel tape recorders has been limited by the standard record and playback correction curves. By changing the correction curves so that the TD 20A-SE can take full advantage of the latest tapes, the tape noise is reduced to as low as -80 dB." Unfortunately, they never specify what is specifically meant by "the latest tapes." They do, however, specify that "Maxell UD XL is used for the factory adjustment," and that "when your TD 20A-SE leaves the factory it is adjusted to give the best performance with tape types Maxell UD XL, TDK GX, and Ampex Grand Master 456.

Could it be that the "special equalization" nomenclature was an attempt to avoid a licensing fee for "EE" designation? Or was it something to compete with "EE" designation?

[fa8362]

I tried the UD_XL and the EE and there is no comparison. The EE sounds like crap compared to the UD-XL, unless I need to set the bias different. I'll probably sell the EE unless someone can give me a hint on how to record the EE right.
thanks
James

Do you have a normal/special equalization switch on the lower right (red plastic surround)? If so, try the special equalization position.

[utahusker]

Do you have a normal/special equalization switch on the lower right (red plastic surround)? If so, try the special equalization position.
No, mine is not a SE, so there's no special equalization option. I must add that this deck sounds fantastic with the UD-XL, not so with the EE.

[fa8362]

No, mine is not a SE, so there's no special equalization option. I must add that this deck sounds fantastic with the UD-XL, not so with the EE.

It should. According to my manual, the TD20A-SE is set up with that tape. Your TD20A probably is too.

I wish mine was functional. When it worked, it was my best sounding stock unit. Unless I can fix it myself, I'll probably sell it for parts. Can't see spending $800+ to get it restored, when I have a functional half track Technics with bypassed internal electronics.

[Jay Pemberton]

Note that there are XL I and XL II tapes, with XL I being the same bias as the UD tape. XL II is the EE type. It's like unto the type II cassette formulations, and used a much higher bias level than XL I or other more conventional tapes.

IIRC the EE tapes were principally intended for those who liked to record at 3 3/4 ips, using the few models of tape decks designed to use EE tape. EE could give performance at 3 3/4 speed rivalling other tapes at 7 1/2 ips. Only a very few Akai and Teac decks had this feature. (The EE standard also employed modified recording curves for 3 3/4 and 7 1/2 ips speed, and a properly recorded EE tape, reproduced on other equipment, will sound rather bright.)

EE tapes recorded on any other machine--which most likely can not have bias levels raised to appropriate values--the sound will be very disappointing, with too much upper midrange and treble, and a brittle sound overall. It also won't erase very well either.

[Fast Forward]

I prefer new verses used but the price is a liitle out of my budget on 35-180s,so I rely on Seller reputation and feedback,,I just bought a Maxell UD 35-180 one pass for 20.00 bucks,I usually have better luck on un-used 35-90s MTC
I just recieved My $20.00 in the mail, it has Handel recorded on it so I,ll give it a listen if it whats recorded on it sounds good I,ll leave it alone if not it will be introduced to my Bulk Eraser

[utahusker]

Does anyone know the RMGI equivalent to the Maxell UD XL?

[Des-Lab]

Does anyone know the RMGI equivalent to the Maxell UD XL?

That would be the LPR-35.

http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=4

http://usrecordingmedia-store.stores.yahoo.net/rmemlp14x36o.html

[utahusker]

Thanks Des, I ordered 5 pancakes.

[utahusker]

What do you think of Quantegy 499?

[TheReeler]

As far as I know, Tandberd TD20 SE stands for "Special Edition" and was not "EE" capable. There's more changes than EQ/BIAS so that a machine can handle EE tape. For example, erase an EE tape is more difficult than a ferro tape.

EE tape gets the good when it's used in slow speed (equal or less than 3.75 ips). If you use 7.5 or higher speeds, don't use EE tape.

[niklasthedolphin]

Not sure enough to put my head on a block................

But I think Tandberg TD20A SE is meant to be Special Eq and differs from the standard edition in having higher speed (could be ordered to low speed though) and ½ track.
Furthermore the SE has a button for special Eq with 10 microseconds instead of 35 microseconds. (not on 7,5 ips)

This makes it possible to use EE but is generaly for more modern tapes that handles more saturation than older.

To compensate for the higher treble saturation, Tandberg has built-in Actilinear, which ensures that the tape is given constant current at all frequenzies at the same tima as the rec-amp has better linearity and also build-in is Dyneq, which ensures that tapes are are not reaching the limit for saturation at high freq.'s.

Furthermore the SE has a synq function, cue and adjustable bias.

This machine is adjusted to 570 nWb/m at 0 dB wich is far more than the general japanese machine. (japanes standard is/was 160 nWb/m at 0 dB)

Therefor it will be wise not to let the meters go to high when recording.

SE has far less mechanical noise than standard edition and the S/N ratio was bettered to 80dB.

The critisism the Tandberg TD20A SE mainly got from new, even in it's home country, was that the layout of buttons and functions made it easy to misoperate the machine.

Tandberg TD20A SE is as standard adjusted to Maxell UD XL, TDK GX and Ampex Grand Mater 456.

If more curious go to read the Operation Manual (http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/td-20a-om-english.pdf).

"dolph"

[TheReeler]

But I think Tandberg TD20A SE is meant to be Special Eq and differs from the standard edition in having higher speed (could be ordered to low speed though) and ½ track.

The standard edition was available in both 1/2 and 1/4 track format, being 7.5 and 15 ips the 1/2 and 3.75 and 7.5 the 1/4.

I will try to find some rare pic of a "really special edition" Tandberg TD20. Maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for the link to the manual, very curious to see a viking!!! that norwegians really have sense of humour, hehe. I was really close to Norway when I was in Findland. What a pitty that I didn't seen any r2r :(

[TheReeler]

Found another curious link that talk about the differences between the :

http://www.analogstereo.com/reel2reel_tandberg.htm

The pic I was thinking ok was a golden version of the TD20A. I'm sure that watched one in the past (the same that one of a Revox B77), but don't know it they were commercially done or were aftermarket jobs.

I'd like to watch a video showing how works the 4th motor in this deck.

[niklasthedolphin]

Found another curious link that talk about the differences between the :

http://www.analogstereo.com/reel2reel_tandberg.htm

The pic I was thinking ok was a golden version of the TD20A. I'm sure that watched one in the past (the same that one of a Revox B77), but don't know it they were commercially done or were aftermarket jobs.

I'd like to watch a video showing how works the 4th motor in this deck.

It works about the same way as the 4th motor in my Tandberg TCD 910 Cassette deck, moving the head bridge.
On the TD20A-SE it is the lower bridge motorized to move the idler wheel (I think it's called in english..........the rubber thing going on the capstan).

This motor is 90 degrees on the other motors' mounting.

The last 50 ever produced of this deck was called "The Final Edition (http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/td-20a-se-finaled-b.pdf)".
They might have had some different design details.
Maybe even gold.


"dolph"

[TheReeler]

The first time I hear that "Final edition". Thanks for the input.