Amps for the money

[speakerman1]

Who made the best amps for the money. I'm partial to the Brits.

[Fast Forward]

Had a Quad 405 11 for a while in the 70s I liked it ,,don,t remember why I got rid of it,,I drank a lot in the 70s

[Nakdoc]

NAD here in the US. British amps are expensive! YBA from France is nice, but not cheap.

[Marek]

I have had good luck with Soundcraftsmen.

Others like hafler and dynaco.

Acoustat was good also.

[JaeTee]

How much bang for how much buck? It might be better to phrase the question in this manner... "If you need an amp with around XXX watts per channel, and had only $XXX to spend, what would you buy?"

I think used Yamaha amps from the late 80s and early 90's give great bang for the buck. I have an M-50 power amp (120 clean wpc) that I paid $70 for in a pawn shop seven years ago. It still kicks butt! Sounds amazing! Lots of bang, not a lot of bucks! Then again, that amp on ebay will fetch around $120~$150 nowadays.

The same could be said about Sansui integrated amps from the mid 70's to early 80's. There are some models among those that offer great value (and nostalgia).

[Fast Forward]

I,ve seen some Crown 150/300/400 series amps at pretty fair prices on the bay

[stuwee]

I'm not familiar with your Epos speakers, the best amp for them that grabs the bass driver and controls it, while throwing the most convicing soundstage could be one of many out there, does your Creek have pre-outs? Can you borrow a friends 'bad boy' model to try. IIRC, you have quite a selection of tube amps, are you thinking SS? More info Larry...

[Marek]

Yamaha, Sansui and Crown are all good.

Crown especially is a super well built amp, Sansui's sound nice almost Mac like.*thumbsup*

How much bang for how much buck? It might be better to phrase the question in this manner... "If you need an amp with around XXX watts per channel, and had only $XXX to spend, what would you buy?"

I think used Yamaha amps from the late 80s and early 90's give great bang for the buck. I have an M-50 power amp (120 clean wpc) that I paid $70 for in a pawn shop seven years ago. It still kicks butt! Sounds amazing! Lots of bang, not a lot of bucks! Then again, that amp on ebay will fetch around $120~$150 nowadays.

The same could be said about Sansui integrated amps from the mid 70's to early 80's. There are some models among those that offer great value (and nostalgia).

I,ve seen some Crown 150/300/400 series amps at pretty fair prices on the bay

[speakerman1]

Yes my Creek has a Preout. Let's just do S.S. 2 great amps mentioned were Crown and I am a Hafler nut. But my Creeks seem to have a gentler sound than the other 2.

[speakerman1]

I saw Crown and Hafler mentioned I'm a Hafler nut. I have sold vintage for about 4 yrs now. Scott makes a good amp. What I was really getting at wasn't the wattage as much as the sound.Clarity at low levels and also jammin. I also saw some vintage japenese mentioned ; but no new stuff. I'll do the tubes at a later date.
What I'm getting at is you have to have a good base to play the high end tapes. Trash in trash out. Your system is only as good as it's weakest link.

[Fast Forward]

Speakerman if you decide on a Crown,,Ive got a DC 300 series 11 with the wood case that operates perfect,,175 watts conservative watts at 8 ohms

[Naknut]

NAD seems to be the best bang for the buck. They sound sweet too.

[stuwee]

Add any early James Bonginorno SAE stuff, the Mark's from the 70's, especially the low powered ones, gobs of current, killer bass, not to 'look at me' in the highs. And of course, the mid 80's A series amps and his later G.A.S. stuff *drool*'y. I'll second the mid to late 80's Yamaha's in the 80 to 175 watt range.

James B. and Saul Marantz are in the top 5 of SS amp designers IMHO during the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't afford to look, let alone listen to the Ampzilla 2000 *hypnot*

[Marek]

stuwee took the words right out of my mouth.

SAE, GAS, Sumo, the "real" marantz, made by them and not standard radio are all really nice amps.

Also some threshold and early krell is relatively affordable. Also early arc ss is way underrated and underpriced.

And I have to mention the real, not overseas oem'd harmon kardon citation amps.

Add any early James Bonginorno SAE stuff, the Mark's from the 70's, especially the low powered ones, gobs of current, killer bass, not to 'look at me' in the highs. And of course, the mid 80's A series amps and his later G.A.S. stuff *drool*'y. I'll second the mid to late 80's Yamaha's in the 80 to 175 watt range.

James B. and Saul Marantz are in the top 5 of SS amp designers IMHO during the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't afford to look, let alone listen to the Ampzilla 2000 *hypnot*

[Rex Everything]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet so I will

ACCUPHASE

Hard to beat the quality you get with vintage Accuphase vs. how cheaply it can be bought these days.

[speakerman1]

Let's do a new twist. You have 2000.00 to buy a new S.S. amp. No vintage. What would you buy and why?
I all ready did mine. I bought a Creek.
The reason why, I liked the sound, It is built like a tank. It wasn't built in China. They weren't owned by Harman corp. You very seldom see them on ebay. If I want to sit quietly and listen it is just as clear as it is when I jam. Oh and I know I have a true 95 wpc. If you have or can just sit back and listen to one one day.

[JaeTee]

I would hardly call a $2k amp a "bang for the buck" type of bargain. Then again, with the prices of new amps being what they are, I guess that $1700 amp is a relative bargain!.

IMHO, vintage is the way to go.

I'd love to hear that Creek up against my 30 year old, super massive, dual monoblock designed Sansui AU-717 (in which I have a grand total of $200 invested).

[Marek]

For 2K you can buy an incredible used amp, I'd be really hard pressed to justify buying new in the current market.

Just my $0.02.

Let's do a new twist. You have 2000.00 to buy a new S.S. amp. No vintage. What would you buy and why?
I all ready did mine. I bought a Creek.
The reason why, I liked the sound, It is built like a tank. It wasn't built in China. They weren't owned by Harman corp. You very seldom see them on ebay. If I want to sit quietly and listen it is just as clear as it is when I jam. Oh and I know I have a true 95 wpc. If you have or can just sit back and listen to one one day.

[speakerman1]

No you really wouldn't.

[Scorpion8]

What about Carver? C-500 power amplifier was one I always wanted to hear along with the C-4000 pre. Nikko Alpha 2 was supposed to be a hidden gem also.

[speakerman1]

Carver made great amps also.

[Scorpion8]

Had to search, but I recall the Tomlinson Holman Apt Amplifier 1 caused a lot of stir back in its day. never heard one, but the mags used to be full of raves about Apt.

[Marek]

Another good amp.*thumbsup*

Had to search, but I recall the Tomlinson Holman Apt Amplifier 1 caused a lot of stir back in its day. never heard one, but the mags used to be full of raves about Apt.

[Mignun67]

If I had 2K to spend on an amp then I'd look at something that builds on what your Creek already does well. You say you're partial to the Brits so, why not look at one of the finest Brit amps ever made, the Naim NAP250.

You should be able to pick up a nice, serviced NAC72/Hicap/NAP250 combo for this money. Best of all, they are all still factory supported and most of the local agents can service all the amps they have ever made since 1972.

If you want something more up to date then you may just find a NAC202/NAP200 combo within your budget.

Even the entry level Nait 5 is a corker. I believe that Wilson Audio recommend this as their minimum requirement of amplifier for their speakers. The next recommendation costs many times more!

However, if it's best sound for the money then I'd have to put forward the diminutive Ion Obelisk. These amps can be picked up for £50-100 in the UK and they sound absolutely fantastic with a superb phono stage and headphone amp thrown in for good measure. Just replace the big caps (recommended for ANY amp) and you're good to go for another 10 years or so. http://www.hifiengine.com/gallery/ion-obelisk-1.shtml

[speakerman1]

I'm a Creek dealer but was surprised at the sound when I started dealing them. I have 2 racks full of equipment. Tubes on 1 side SS on the other.

[Mignun67]

I love Creek kit, although I wasn't so knocked out by the newest inexpensive series (Evolution?). I well recall being totally blown away by the sound of 4040 amplifier when it came out. The only thing that stopped me buying one was the somewhat agricultural look and finish of the thing.

Back in the day it really was a punch up between the Creek 4040 (and 4140), the NAD 3020/3130, the Rotel RA-820BX, the Ion Obelisk, and the Mission Cyrus 1 for best "entry level" amplifier. Overall, I'd say the Creek and the Ion were the pick of the bunch. I still have an Ion Obelisk that stands in sometimes when I need a good MM stage and it never ceases to amaze me at it's capabilities - this compared to over $20ks worth of amplification!

[speakerman1]

The Creek isn't a party amp. It is for listening pleasure; but it will jam. I have surprised alot of people with the Creek. I have the classic tuner also. You know they discontinued their cd player.

[Nakdoc]

Let's do a new twist. You have 2000.00 to buy a new S.S. amp. No vintage. What would you buy and why?
I all ready did mine. I bought a Creek.
The reason why, I liked the sound, It is built like a tank. It wasn't built in China. They weren't owned by Harman corp. You very seldom see them on ebay. If I want to sit quietly and listen it is just as clear as it is when I jam. Oh and I know I have a true 95 wpc. If you have or can just sit back and listen to one one day.
Then you have to hear YBA. Dealers are rare. There is a story with it, like most high end, but I won't retell it. If you can find it, listen to it. Yes, they are small.

[braxus]

Some mid priced gear thats from Britian is Rotel. Im surprised no one else mentioned them. Clear sounding amps with tons of juice for speakers. Very quick sounding amps.

[speakerman1]

Are they still made in England? I heard they went to China.

[theblackknight]

Back in the day it would seem like the most common amps would be at the top of the list. such as Pioneer SPEC's, soundcraftsmen, carver, etc. however, pioneer amps have soared in value in recent years so I don't think they are the best bang for the buck more.

and did anyone mention SETTON??? *eyepop* *liar*

[Mignun67]

I don't think Rotel was ever actually made in the UK but there was UK design input and "tuning".

I believe the entry-level Creek electronics are made in China now.

[Marek]

Good point.

Pioneer sold by the truckload but there values have went up even though there's tons of gear out there.

Back in the day it would seem like the most common amps would be at the top of the list. such as Pioneer SPEC's, soundcraftsmen, carver, etc. however, pioneer amps have soared in value in recent years so I don't think they are the best bang for the buck more.

and did anyone mention SETTON??? *eyepop* *liar*

[braxus]

Are they still made in England? I heard they went to China.

Yes they did. But design is still done in the UK. I have a 1070 amp of theirs and have no issues with it for 3 years now and its Chinese made.

[speakerman1]

My 1st amp was a Rotel in 1978.

[gamve]

I noticed that Rotel have a new range of amps using the PWM B&O Ice Class D modules. Don't know the pricing but these are seriously worth some consideration.

[A.N.T.]

I'm a Creek dealer but was surprised at the sound when I started dealing them. I have 2 racks full of equipment. Tubes on 1 side SS on the other.

It is nice to see that some of my designs (like 5350SE) are still popular. At home I run Creek 4330mk2 into Epos M12 and for my fairly small room it is absolutely fine. You should try my new phono stage one day - you may like it *wink* .

Alex

[speakerman1]

Those Epos 12s are great. I have the 12.2. They just amaze me. I have them on my tubes. And you built 1 heck of an amp. I would like to try your amp one day.
Larry

[390FE]

I like my Proton D1200. For a 100Watts/ch it is a nice clean clear solid sounding amp with a killer +6db of headroom & does a great job controlling the masive 15" woofers of the Realistic/Optimus Mach 2's to boot. Plus it has cool green lighted Watt Meters.

[speakerman1]

I like Proton amps. The are not very reconized. They sound great. At one time they were in bed with NAD.

[Socal Sam]

"New" and "bang for the buck" are mutually exclusive terms. Even McIntosh is not immune to the massive despreciation that occurs after driving your new amp off the lot. For example, I picked up a USED current model MC275V with box and manual for $2,400. The MSRP is around $4,750. Dealers are not suppose to discount new stuff but they do by giving very generous trade in allowances.

[Marek]

There is some truth to this.

You can buy used high end amps that will clobber anything near the price new and most expensive gear as well.*thumbsup*

"New" and "bang for the buck" are mutually exclusive terms. Even McIntosh is not immune to the massive despreciation that occurs after driving your new amp off the lot. For example, I picked up a USED current model MC275V with box and manual for $2,400. The MSRP is around $4,750. Dealers are not suppose to discount new stuff but they do by giving very generous trade in allowances.

[itzmike]

Soundcraftsman.

[Kent T]

The best amps are reliable, conservatively engineered and made from quality parts, can be serviced easily when they do go wrong, and are well supported by their makers. I favor older McIntosh amps, older Crown amps, Bryston amps, and like a few lesser known amps. The Peavey CS-400 and CS-800 are excellent sounding good bargains. Peavey still supports them (BGW made them for Peavey) and they are bulletproof under hard use. Pioneer made some good stuff but like many Japanese mass market components quality was vastly reduced post 1980 and reliability with it. I dislike Carver or Phase Linear amplifiers due to lack of speaker protection which means when they go wrong, DC gets pumped into your speakers destroying them. Both companies products are among the most difficult to get parts and service on and tend to use overstressed components too much for my comfort. Do remember, these biases come from over 35 years of broadcast engineering and high end/pro audio repairing.

[RedGrant]

There is some truth to this.

You can buy used high end amps that will clobber anything near the price new and most expensive gear as well.*thumbsup*





That's the single most important reason I got into vintage audio.

[speakerman1]

If no one bought new there wouldn't be vintage. I own both. Think about that. There is nothing wrong with owning either. Just putting down new components is crazy. There are a few you won't find vintage. People don't get rid of them. Just my opinion.
Larry

[Marek]

Strongly agree...

Soundcraftsman.

The best amps are reliable, conservatively engineered and made from quality parts, can be serviced easily when they do go wrong, and are well supported by their makers. I favor older McIntosh amps, older Crown amps, Bryston amps, and like a few lesser known amps. The Peavey CS-400 and CS-800 are excellent sounding good bargains. Peavey still supports them (BGW made them for Peavey) and they are bulletproof under hard use. Pioneer made some good stuff but like many Japanese mass market components quality was vastly reduced post 1980 and reliability with it...

[Marek]

Good point.*Hi5*

If no one bought new there wouldn't be vintage. I own both. Think about that. There is nothing wrong with owning either. Just putting down new components is crazy. There are a few you won't find vintage. People don't get rid of them. Just my opinion.
Larry