Dolby NR

[NAD613]

I know not everyone on this forum is fond of Dolby NR, but I gotta tell you, I like it. I'm listening to a Akai SX-90 type I cassette I made a few weeks ago, using Dolby C & it sounds great. Now, my NAD deck has a bias control knob on it & I recorded the tape with the bias knob set @ -2, so I have no hiss & no loss of high end on a type I cassette. IMHO, using Dolby NR in conjunction with bias control makes for a great sounding tape.

[Nak_novice]

I agree with you but with a certain caveat. In the past, I have found that different decks execute the encoding / decoding slightly differently - probably due to some sort of drift over the years.

To overcome this, I always play a tape on the deck that recorded it. Dolby C is absolutely first class when used in this way.

The Nakamichi 1000 ZXL uses an outboard Dolby C unit called an NR-100. My units have recently been upgraded with new caps and dedicated to each deck to avoid any miss match when replaying tapes.

My current preference is to record with dolby C - always.

[braxus]

I've always used Dolby S once I got a deck that had it. But I may go back to Dolby C if I get my own Tandberg 3014.

[niklasthedolphin]

I've always used Dolby S once I got a deck that had it. But I may go back to Dolby C if I get my own Tandberg 3014.

I think that if/when you get your own TCD 3014, you will experience that dolby is only for reasonably use when recording on less quality tapes.

No matter what deck, most noise reduction systems will work on a compromise with dynamic compression as a side effect.

On the best decks, that will be noticable.

"dolph"

[Mr. Lin]

I don't use the Dolby B on my Nak BX-1, it sounds like some threw a blanket over the music, but maybe I'm not doing something right.

How are the other Dolby versions that are higher than C?

[NAD613]

I don't use the Dolby B on my Nak BX-1, it sounds like some threw a blanket over the music, but maybe I'm not doing something right.

How are the other Dolby versions that are higher than C?

If you have a bias control knob, set it at -1 to -2 & that will brighten up the tape while using Dolby.

[braxus]

I think that if/when you get your own TCD 3014, you will experience that dolby is only for reasonably use when recording on less quality tapes.

No matter what deck, most noise reduction systems will work on a compromise with dynamic compression as a side effect.

On the best decks, that will be noticable.

"dolph"


I recorded a CD on my Aiwa 9000 with Dolby C and it was very much dynamic. More so then I've heard before. Problem is when not using Dolby, you have to turn the levels down because you can't saturate the tape as much, especially on peaks. I've done a few recordings with Dolby Off and the sound quality didn't seam much different other then the hiss was heard more.

[Mr. Lin]

If you have a bias control knob, set it at -1 to -2 & that will brighten up the tape while using Dolby.

Nope, no bias controls. One of a number of reasons why I'm really itching to upgrade, but I want to choose the right deck.

[niklasthedolphin]

I recorded a CD on my Aiwa 9000 with Dolby C and it was very much dynamic. More so then I've heard before. Problem is when not using Dolby, you have to turn the levels down because you can't saturate the tape as much, especially on peaks. I've done a few recordings with Dolby Off and the sound quality didn't seam much different other then the hiss was heard more.

Are we talking about getting the recording as close as possible to the original or are we talking about pleasing certain ears?

For the first go for recordings without dolby/dbx on the best of decks.
For the second, do as you please.
:-)

By the way..............
I just made a test between dolby and non-dolby.
The subject was Peter Gullin: "Out Of Love"
# 1 song on side 1 has thsi passage with a trumpet with a damper. In the mastering/studio set-up this instrument has way too much gain on the mic.
The result is that adjusting the tape to saturation this passage is the one to use.
Using dolby the extreme raw crispyness of the horn is disappearing.
It might be more pleasant for some folks to listen to. But this extreme raw crispyness in there.................also on the LP.
So the discussion is should we attempt to get it as true to the original or should we get as pleasant as possible.

I want it in favour of the truth..................
Verdict here: No DolbyA, DolbyB, DolbyC, DolbyS; No DBX I, II or III. No Tel Com, no high com.

Maybe HX-Pro, DNL or DBX IV can do a better job IF noise reduction realy IS needed.

"dolph"

[Teresa]

I use Dolby C with excellent results on my Nakamichi CR-1A. With Classical Orchestral music Dolby C allows me to use a lower average recording level, thus I retain all the ambiance and delicate high frequencies. Dolby C and Metal tape seem to be a great match. *Hi5*

[Jay Pemberton]

BTW, HX Pro isn't a form of noise reduction. It's a circuit that dynamically reduces the bias level during moments of large amounts of high frequency energy in the sounds being recorded. You might say it helps keep loud cymbal crashes sounding like escaping steam, etc....

[braxus]

By the way..............
I just made a test between dolby and non-dolby.

I want it in favour of the truth..................
Verdict here: No DolbyA, DolbyB, DolbyC, DolbyS; No DBX I, II or III. No Tel Com, no high com.


Ok fill me in. What deck were you using and what tape? What settings did you adjust and to what? I have excellent results using Dolby S on my two decks and never noticed anything missing from the source material. Even on the one deck Dolby C sounds excellent.

[Scorpion8]

I'd echo that. Properly adjusted and calibrated, using any flavor of Dolby on a good deck can be quite a welcome experience, especially in low passages. Once the music fills in, it's not truly needed. I have a stash of Grateful Dead tapes recorded live off the mixer on XLII-S tapes without any Dolby and they sound good, but that's the exception, not the rule. In general I always record with Dolby ON.

[NAD613]

I've found that type I tapes, like the Akai SX & Fuji DR-I, benefit greatly using Dolby C. While using Dolby NR with the bias set at -1 to -2, there is no loss of highs & no hiss. The high end cuts right through. Some people prefer type I tapes because they can get fantastic results on their machines with them & they cost a lot less then type II & IV tapes. Of course, you have to use decent quality type I tapes, but that's a given.

[niklasthedolphin]

Ok fill me in. What deck were you using and what tape? What settings did you adjust and to what? I have excellent results using Dolby S on my two decks and never noticed anything missing from the source material. Even on the one deck Dolby C sounds excellent.

I am using Tandberg TCD 910 in top shape, top allignment and basically unused heads.
Recording from Micro Benz L2 cartridge fitted on Rega RB700 arm on a Dunlop IV modified TT with Ringmat standing on Disc of Silence and a Target Shelf, hung on a brick wall, sending signal through WHEST MsU/ps .20 RIAA and through my Mark Levinson No 38s.

I am using Audio Analogue Donizetti mono power amps with ProAc Response D25 and as headphones I use Ergo 2, Beyer Dynamic DT 880 (old model) and Sennheiser 650. As headamp I use either my Tandberg TCD 910 or my Lyrec Frida R2R machine.

All Cables selective matched to each component in the set-up from a collection of over 116 different HQ RCA cables and 20 ditto XLR cables.

By the way:
NR is something I also use only on low quality tapes no matter if I record on my TCD 910, my Revox B710 or my Tandberg TCD 440A. The result is better without NR when I use High Quality tapes.

If usin non-virgin Fe Tapes with too much hiss/background noise, I tend to use Dolby B and very rarely Dolby C.

I understand the function of Dolby HX-Pro as the single ended headroom expansion system more than a NR system. Jay Pemberton mentionedit. Invented in Denmark. (I'm Danish.... :-)

I use HX-Pro on my R2R.

Well................now that I almost made a full list of my gear, why not complete it:
Audio Analogue Paganini CD
Some Pioneer MJ-D508 MD
Tandberg TPT 3001A tuner (on which i replaced sotring battery and Scalethread today - top notch working perfectly with alle functions and super sound)
BOSS BR-1200 Digital Recording Studio (24/96)
Some unimportant DVD and top set box for TV (both connected to stereo)
Some Philips HiFi Stereo VHS machine.
2x DBX 200X that I use as SB (selector boxes)
PC and DAT (no significant good sound here).

Sorry..................it got a little out of hand here.
Well You asked..................
hehehehehe

:-)


Have to supplement that I mostly listen to jazz and classical............
Have > 8000 titles's of all kinds of music though, mostly LP's and tapes.

Greetings

"dolph"

[braxus]

Dolph,

Do your results seem consistent on other decks or just the Tandbergs you have used? Im just wondering if maybe the Tandberg didn't have the best implementation of Dolby or not. Or maybe even the best fine adjustments like fine bias or record level. Im looking for a 3014 myself, so Im very interested in your comments. And is this noticed on all music or just certain types? Is it possible the fine bias may not have been exactly dead on? I ask because you mentioned the crispness seemed missing from the recorded tape which makes me wonder if bias/ record level may have been an issue. If the record level during calibration is not dead on, Dolby mis-tracking can happen to degrade the sound.

[niklasthedolphin]

Dolph,

Do your results seem consistent on other decks or just the Tandbergs you have used? Im just wondering if maybe the Tandberg didn't have the best implementation of Dolby or not. Or maybe even the best fine adjustments like fine bias or record level. Im looking for a 3014 myself, so Im very interested in your comments. And is this noticed on all music or just certain types? Is it possible the fine bias may not have been exactly dead on? I ask because you mentioned the crispness seemed missing from the recorded tape which makes me wonder if bias/ record level may have been an issue. If the record level during calibration is not dead on, Dolby mis-tracking can happen to degrade the sound.


I understand your concern.

Don't worry.
Go for the 3014/A.
You won't get better.
I had it up against Dragon, CR7, ZX9, Teac Z-7000, Revox B710 & B215.........you name it.

The thing is that this deck is SO good that you for once are able to deteckt what NR's really do to the music.
And theory comes through in praxis now.
If you examine the theory of double ended NR systems, you will know that it is based on compromises to eliminate noise and we all know that noise is different on different tapes.

A lot of people, to whom LP is a revival or a new thing, seem to be irritated by clicks and pops or in general back ground noise on LP's.
They miss the black background on CD's.

I would like to turn it around and claim that if you eliminate the ground floor noise level entirely, you also eliminate the microdynamics in the music. And this is where the natural feeling of the analogue music lies.

So if you go for tapes with less noise, you really will be able to enjoy the true natural sound on the 3014 without NR on.

You will still have great sound with dolby B or C but ARE you really among those people that wants this?

I had quite a lot of HiFi nerds and also a lot of "normal" friends around here, listening to the music we all love.

I can asure you that less than 1 o/oo has been able to detect any differences when comparing LP to Cassette OR CD to Cassette OR R2R to Cassette OR live FM when it's best to Cassette in ABX tests.

And that statistic is most probably based on tapes that reviels their weaknesses rather than people for real detecting the difference.

I'm not talking about the nice and comforting colouration of the music that some decks make in their recordings.
I'm talking about being faithful to the original.

Isn't that what you want, since you are going for the 3014?

My result seems consistant on both my Tandberg Decks and to a certain extend also on my Revox.
Be aware that both my Tandbergs are better than my Revox.

Built into the 3014 are Tandberg's wonderbabies: DynEq and Actillinear of which DynEq is very similar to the HX-pro system.

Good luck with your search.

"dolph"

[itzmike]

No DOLBY for me. I have a Tandberg 3014A and tape hiss on a good tape is negligible. Mike

[stuwee]

Well, bein' the one step at a time kinda guy I am, I'm looking forward to trying all kinds of tape types w and w/o Dolby B and C, I'm glad ya'll drug me into all this!

[Mr. Lin]

Well, bein' the one step at a time kinda guy I am, I'm looking forward to trying all kinds of tape types w and w/o Dolby B and C, I'm glad ya'll drug me into all this!

Same here, but so far I've found I don't really like Dolby. That may change once I get a better deck.

Yeah, thanks for helping me become obsessed with yet another aspect of audio, now my room is overflowing with blank tapes, and a quickly rising stack of recorded tapes I've been working on.*check*

[Web Police]

I used to use Dolby, but in the last 20 years almost all of my recording has been from CD's and you don't really need any noise reduction with most of them.