Can You Get Good Bass From A Valve Amp?

[Nak_novice]

Last year I sold my Awesome Pioneer SX-1980 Receiver and purchased a McIntosh Integrated Tube Amplifier. While it is fantastic to listen to music through this amp, the bass is a little weak and not in the league of the SX.

So much so, I am considering a reversal situation. Are all valve amp's like this or is it a specific issue with the MA2275?

[braxus]

Actually Im told tube amps have rather good low end, but I have yet to experience that myself. Im considering running a dual amp situation because of what you've noticed. My Rotel for the low end grunt and high power current in the peaks to run the woofers, and the tube amp to run the mids and tweets to get that sweet tube sound. I've been told this won't work, but who knows until you try it. What you may be noticing is tube amps tend to not have as much power to give the low end you are used to. Many tube amps are 25, 60, and maybe up to 90 watts power and they are not high current. Only the really expensive tube amps get into the 100s. Some speakers really need lots of current to get them to sound their best. Could this be what you are noticing?

[Nak_novice]

It may well be what I have experienced braxus. The thing is, my Pioneer HPM-1500 speakers were sold with the SX-1980 so I could get some smaller speakers which were more compatable with the space available. I should have substituted one change at a time to evaluate the differences.

I notice though that some U2 tracks even at low volume do not have the punch in the bass that they did on the old set up, but as you said, with 270WPC power, the SX even at low volume was a beast. At half volume, my clothes literally jumped up and down and the windows rattled!

I do have a Pioneer SX-9000 which is a transistor amp of approx 50 WPC which I can compare with the Mac's 75 WPC, a more even contest I suppose there. Will have to wait until the gear arrives in UK though as it's all now in storage pending the move.

The clarity of the high end of the McIntosh is stunning and far better than the tinny treble sound of the Pioneer. The Mac with bass turned right up is a reasonable compromise but maybe I'm being too picky.

Wouldn't it be good to have a speaker selection to try with an amp to see what can be achieved with different combinations. At 45kg's, the amp is just too heavy to cart around. I wonder if there's McIntosh dealers in UK, Hmmm.

[fa8362]

Yes, but typically only from an appropriate speaker (high impedance, not low impedance in the bass). The majority of modern speakers have low impedance in the bass. Some dip as low as 1-3 ohms in the bass, which most tube amps can't drive well. Also, bass requires more power to reproduce relative to midrange and treble. Low impedance + more power = no-no for most tube amps.

[stuwee]

Another problem is most tube amps have a low dampning factor, which leads to a flabby bass, it goes low but, not accuately,the kick drum doesn't have that mallet on the skin sound with the accompaning low bomp like you get with a SS amp. Now you can spend $$$ on a big Cary and be in heaven. I'll look into this when the Pilot gets it's refurb. Or I can borrow something nice down here.

[Nak_novice]

What about the tubes themselves? Could a different set provide any difference in the bass compared to the standard Mac set?

[stuwee]

What about the tubes themselves? Could a different set provide any difference in the bass compared to the standard Mac set?

This is where tube amps can be a bonus, you change the voicing by popping in a different set, much easier than soldering pieces in and out, this is why I have 4 SS amps to use, for the different sound, once I go tube, pray for me.

[utahusker]

Tubes greatly depend on the bass characteristics of your speakers. My Klipsch are a folded horn bass design and are very quick in that dept. making them a match made in heaven for a good tube amp.

[stuwee]

Tubes greatly depend on the bass characteristics of your speakers. My Klipsch are a folded horn bass design and are very quick in that dept. making them a match made in heaven for a good tube amp.

I agree Big time on that*Hi5* Synergy is a wonderfull thing, this is a very expensive hobby, but, still cheaper than drugs and hookers*devil*

[gamve]

You kidding me? My 15WPC SE triode driving into HPD385 Tannoys kicks ass in the bass department. so much so the two x B&W ASW1000's (160wpc) i used to run have been disconnected. You need to look closely at matching amp speaker combinations if you want to run valve power amps.
Bi amp is also worth investigating, I run my system like this sometimes. Split your speaker cross overs between low/mid high and run some solid states into the woofers and Valve gear for the mid/highs
Cheers
graham

[gamve]

This is where tube amps can be a bonus, you change the voicing by popping in a different set, much easier than soldering pieces in and out, this is why I have 4 SS amps to use, for the different sound, once I go tube, pray for me.

Craig, Once you go tube you can't/wont go back....you have been warned.
Cheers
graham

[Rat44]

Tube amps shine with speakers such as the Klipsch's,JBL's and Altecs.
Tubes are very picky about speaker selection
I traded my KG 4's to a gentleman that is using them with a Shanling integrated amp that is only about 5 watts.
They sound great !

[zenith2134]

First thing to consider is that vintage SX Pioneers are generally bass-heavy units. Most like this, but it isn't accurate. Depends on what sound you're out for. In fact, I have a nice SX-1050 which I'm selling because it's too bassy for my ears.

Of course you can get great bass from a valve amplifier. I have a 12 watt/channel integrated from 1961 which has PLENTY of bass. I mean, it isn't ultra-tight and controlled like a high-current SS amp, but its far from flabby at the same time.

Look for SS rectification, and oversized Output transformers if you want nice bass impact in a tube amp.

[gamve]

First thing to consider is that vintage SX Pioneers are generally bass-heavy units. Most like this, but it isn't accurate. Depends on what sound you're out for. In fact, I have a nice SX-1050 which I'm selling because it's too bassy for my ears.

Of course you can get great bass from a valve amplifier. I have a 12 watt/channel integrated from 1961 which has PLENTY of bass. I mean, it isn't ultra-tight and controlled like a high-current SS amp, but its far from flabby at the same time.

Look for SS rectification, and oversized Output transformers if you want nice bass impact in a tube amp.

I agree SS rectification for the power amp but tube rectification for a tube preamp. I removed stereo well known SS 165wpc make/model sub woofers from my system as they actually degraded the bass by making it muddy sounding. These subs were well integrated into the system and the Xover frequencies overlap was not the issue. The Tube valve bass was just more articulate accurate and natural sounding. I think its horses for courses and more about how components sound together rather than the quality or individual sound of each component. What do you guys reckon on this?