R2R Dubbing

[jcmusic]

I want to record from a pre-recorded tape @ 7 1/2ips to 15ips. What would be the pros and cons?

Jay

[Des-Lab]

Frankly, I can't really see ANY pros to stepping UP in speed when adding a generation. Going from 15 to 7 1/2, yes. But not the other way around. Remember. Any recording is only going to copy as well as the original. You can ENHANCE a recording by running it through some kind of sound processor such as an outboard EQ. But that's only akin to putting gravy on a steak. It adds to the flavor but a better steak it does not make. Plus, with the higher fidelity of the faster speed, it's likely to enhance any flaws that might be there; a good tape can reveal the bad shape the other is in. At best, it would be a break-even with the sound. That is, it'll sound as good as the original. No better no worse. But why would you want to use up twice the amount of tape (and subject your machine to accelerated headwear) for what is basically a push?

Recording at the higher speeds only makes sense for a first generation copy (i.e. a source such as live or off a CD or record). But doing a dub at the higher speed has no value added benefit that I can think of. The only time I can see a step up in speed making any sense is if you are doing a compilation and want everything standardized...such as putting some songs you have only on cassette on a reel. Or taking some that are on a 3 3/4 tape also on a 7 1/2. But that's more for function, convenience, and practicality. But not for enhanced fidelity.

[jcmusic]

Ok Matt I follow you for the most part, I understood that with every generation there would be some loss. I was just trying to compansate for that loss with the higher speed. I would much rather do it at the same speed, just wasn't sure of the out come.

Jay

[mingsu]

But how about a megabuck TT setup and then transfer to 15ips 1/4" tape? Will that be better than play back directly from LP on normal TT setup? I can see a perfectly setup TT system will playback the same LP better than on a not-so-perfect setup TT system. If one, can find a perfect megabuck TT system to do the transfer, the playback of this 15ips tape will always have the sound of a better TT setup playback sound quakity that most user won't be able to have in their own system. I wonder at what cost will this type of transfer to be worth a try.

-M

[jcmusic]

How did a megabuck TT get into this? This post is about R2R dubbing and the likes.

Jay

[mingsu]

I am sorry. I thought RTR dubbing is open to any media dubbing onto a RTR tape. Well, it is hard to find master tape or even pre-recorded tape but there are loads of LP so if dubbing from LP to RTR 15ips can produce better sound than playback LP, why not invest and investigate it.

[Scorpion8]

....so if dubbing from LP to RTR 15ips can produce better sound than playback LP, why not invest and investigate it.

Why would you expect the playback to get better? That's like recording yourself speaking, and then expecting the recording to sound more lifelike than your actual speaking voice. It makes no sense. recording is a way of preserving the original format (such as LP, which may wear) and using a secondary disposable mechanism (tape) to use in it's place. It can't make it better in that nothing ever gets better than the original. Yes, as Des remarked above, you may enhance the recording thru processing, but nothing ever gets better than the original.

[Joseph L]

I see that the discussion takes place here as well. I posted at "Tape Trail" too but will shorten this to just the tape part. Here is my perspective on it.

One thing that happens at 15ips, in addition to the better (flatter) frequency response, you are able to record at a higher level on tape without reaching HF saturation which in turn lowers the apparent noise floor, which would get you a copy that has less apparent added noise from the culmination of noise in the original tape and from the new tape. So in absolute terms, for a archival copy of any audio source, forget if it was recorded at 7-1/2ips, 3-3/4, 1 7/8 or if it is live music it just maters how much you want to spend and is it worthy of the best documenting medium possible? Here is a interesting chart showing the response curve for three tape speeds. http://www.tangible-technology.com/media/media_2.html

Notice that the low end roll off at 15ips is not as drastic as perceived and in fact, at about 26hz, is much better than 7.5ips but the perceived loss below 30hz, @15ps, likely comes, more, from the flatter and more extended response at the top giving the impression of less bass perhaps more than the reality of such. I in no way am diminishing the importance of frequency information below 30hz and in fact have speakers that render useful information well below 20hz and this region is very important but perhaps not as big a loss at 15ips as you might imagine.

So while the reason to use 15ips from a 7.5ips transfer may not be great it nonetheless is there in as much as 15ips is any better than 7.5 for any purpose.

My two cents!

[Web Police]

Des pretty much explained the practical take on this subject.

While on paper and theoretically 15 ips may well preserve the sound of the original better than 7 ips, it may also be overkill. I would try the dub at 7.5 ips and at 15 ips and let your ears and your wallet be the judge. :-?