Shipping Horror Stories.......Is common sense packing really so hard?

[Manalog]

I used to run a shipping department so this flat out drives me nuts. The electronic products we buy have that tightly fitted styrofoam for a reason. That's how they arrive intact (usually). Now, like everything else, sanity & common sense seem to have left the building. I received a 22inch monitor from Viewsonic. This was a pretty big box & they're the genuises that shipped it. They sent it Fedex & when it arrived the guy got it to the back of the truck, put his arms around both sides, lifted it out & the bottom just opened up & this monitor fell onto the cement driveway. Needless to say, I refused to accept it. The bottom of that box was 'sealed' with one countem' one piece of tape across the middle. IOW, it was packed for shipping by an utter fucking retard! Were they sending out a whole slew of them like this? How could this be? Unbelievable! Even with the correct styrofoam packing material they can't staple or tape the box securely. So by skimping on a few pieces of tape they get the expensive item broken & sent back to them. That's really profitable for them.

I've had 2 out of 3 boomboxes I ordered for nieces & nephews Christmas presents arrive with whole sections hanging open & wet & dirty & 1 partly smashed & rattling after a rainy day in the UPS truck. I've had a big stereo speaker arrive with a shoe print on the box. Now the relevant part. All the reel to reel decks I've acquired I bought on ebay. Two of them were disasters. One, a TEAC A-6010 was literally smashed, the wood off one side & looked like it had been hit with a sledghammer. UPS blamed incorrect packing & the seller gave me the money back. He didn't even want the wreckage back, so it became the beginning of my tape recorder junkyard. The other one, an Otari MX5050BII in beautiful condition, arrived with an obvious smash in the back & not working at all, & it was packed like ridiculous crap. Just packing peanuts with the whole deck moving around & the box sagging in every direction. Just a disaster waiting to happen. UPS blamed incorrect packing & the seller gave me the money back no problem. She was very nice about it. But what a total waste. Could almost cry looking at that work of engineering art in great condition wrecked for no reason. One less vintage deck in the world, eh?

Even more astonishing, a Kurzweil PC88 keyboard arrived in the loosest, saggingest box I've ever seen. You know how boxes sit around especially in a dank basement or garage & they get soft. Well, it was like that. A big, long mushy box. The keyboard was in it's plastic zipper bag, and the box was not only filled with peanuts, it was HALF filled with peanuts! This genius figured the plastic zipper case would protect it. The keyboard was able to just flop around in every direction. The huge jagged crack running the length of the back was sickening. I should have photographed it. The guy sent me the money back, pronto. Didn't even have to wait for UPS to look at it. He knew he screwed up. It's amazing how many people send it out wrong & think it won't come back to bite them. Like it'll just get lost in the shuffle & come out OK.

After that I kept away from sellers that don't routinely sell tape decks or at least other heavy delicate electronic equipment. I know they know how to pack these things or they couldn't still be in business. I would advise everyone to always talk to the seller & make a b-i-g point about the shipping. I mean, if it's not gonna get there intact, what the hell's the point? I saw a site last week that you could send a deck to for servicing & repair & couldn't believe they tell you to just wrap it in bubble wrap & fill the box with shipping peanuts. Do you have any idea of the protective value of worthless peanuts, or rolled up newspaper, to a 60, 70, 80lb tape deck dropped 10 feet off a conveyor belt onto one of its' corners? Not a pretty picture.

Shipping peanuts are fine for lightweight stuff. Heavy delicate stuff needs structured styrofoam, or structured something else, but certainly structure.

And by the way, many sellers on ebay are nice people who just don't know. They sell Franklin Mint plates or small items & now want to sell grandpa's tape recorder they've inherited & have no use for. They've never shipped anything like this so they just don't know. If you're going to buy from them it's your job to make sure they ship it to actually arrive in the stated condition (you'll find out what's true on that score after it arrives but that's another story). When the time comes that I have to send out a deck, I'll spend the extra money on the right packing materials. I'll cut the styrofoam to fit if I have to & pack it tight. That's the key. Like a kid in a car seat, it has be part of the package. No movement, no sagging. One tight insulated block of a package. That way it can survive the rough handling it's sure to get & come out unscathed. To spend all this money to acquire this vintage equipment & then skimp on shipping is just plain nuts. To me, anyway.
By the way, I've found UPS to be the worst offender for rough handling. YMMV.

So feel free to jump in & share your shipping horror stories.
I know you have them!

[Scorpion8]

Just received a small Rio mp3 player off eBay. Now these things are very light and very small. Still, it is electronics. Shipper put the item into a single sheet bubblewrap-padded envelope and mailed it off. Needless to say, it got to Alaska and the LCD screen was cracked and the unit non-functional. Same issue, the shipper essentially threw it away. I'm negotiating to get my money back and return the unit to the shipper.

Would a small box and a couple passes of bubblewrap have added that much to the cost of shipping? No .....

[NAD613]

Yeah, I can't believe how people pack stuff. I sold some cassettes on Ebay awhile back & wrapped the cassettes in bubble wrapp, then in plastic bags, then packed the box to the gills w/packing peanuts until the only thing you could hear was the faint rattle of the hubs inside the cassette shell, and then only when you gave the box a good shake. Anything electronic I've sold I've always put in the original box if possible, if not, then heavily bubble wrapped w/lots of peanuts, styrofoam, newspaper, etc., & ALWAYS double-boxed. Always. Then a generous amount of packing tape to make sure the box survives the trip. Yep, some folks are absolutely clueless when it comes to packing/shipping.

[Des-Lab]

Shipping probably ranks second only to pricing as far as number one buyer complaints. The OP's thoughts and concerns are certainly valid. But I don't think it *just* boils down to seller laziness, ignorance, indifference, or outright neglect. Although that may the case in certain other cases. But there may be another side to it.

Because so many buyers (particularly those of vintage electronics) tend to be a nickel-and-dime picky bunch as a whole, sometimes the buyer is left with little choice BUT to chance it. Too many of us already whine about 'inflated' prices, we kick and scream when it comes to shipping charges. Many of us buyers (particularly ones on AK) think somehow that they are doing the buyer a favor by 'taking that old thing off their hands' and think that free or reduced shipping should be a 'courtesy extended to the buyer by the seller to get their business'.

That just isn't a sustainable mindset. Have any of you BEEN to the USPS, FedEx, or UPS shipping centers lately? Because diesel fuel is now >$5 per gallon, they have no choice BUT to substantially raise the rates. Just shipping a carton of cassette tapes via Priority Mail will now set one back about $10. Imagine what a fully boxed reel to reel would cost (when I recently sold my $3000 X-2000R, the FedEx freight Express Ground was just under $200).

Many buyers already cringe at the thought of paying $200 above and beyond what they originally paid. Especially if the original purchase price was only a couple or few hundred dollars.

Now let's look at the packaging. Some people can get boxes for free if they have access to a shipping warehouse at work. But if they don't, they have no choice but to buy them. A 24"X24"x24" box....JUST THE BOX...will cost about $10 at your local Office Depot. Then, a second box (double boxing as well).Then throw in the requisite styrofoam, bubble wrap, peanuts, etc, and it adds up quick. To *PROPERLY* box a fifty pound piece of gear for safe shipment can cost $35 or more before the package has even left the sellers possession. Then add the actual freight and insurance on top of that. Can you really, in good conscience expect the seller to eat ALL of that? And let's not even begin to talk about Ebay insertion and final value fees. Plus PayPal. When all is said and done, a seller is lucky if he clears seventy cents on the dollar. No wonder the temptation to cut corners on shipping.

It was also noted in the OP that some buyers are willing to pay that extra just to be sure. But they need to make that clear to the seller.

As with the airlines, I really do think that a bit of irrationality is at play here. Much of it is in the verbage and wording. For example, everyone is in an uproar with American Airlines and their new $15 checked bag policy. It carries the perception of 'nickel and diming' fees. Had American simply buried that 'fee' by way of RAISING THE FARES by the same $15, I doubt anyone would've noticed. Even though they are paying the same "extra". I think this is one case where transparency can be a bad thing.

This is why I included the shipping in the sale price of my X-2000R. I was really only hoping for $2500. But people are funny like that. Had I asked $2500+$500 "professsional packing+shipping+insurance", anyone who would've seen that would've accused me of "gouging with inflated shipping charges".

So by upping the asking price to $3000 but including the freight, I still got my wanted $2500. And the buyer didn't even ASK about shipping.

I think the OP is correct. Insisting on (and paying for) professional packaging (just to be on the safe side) is probably the best way to go. Especially for your high end and/or heavier pieces.

Now PAYING for pro packing but still getting a half-assed job, then that's another story.

[joeljoel1947]

I have been EXTREMELY lucky with the 4 R2R decks I've bought since February. 3 of them were bought from the exact person you allude too--the person selling Grampa's old deck that they have no clue about. The 4th was bought from a regular R2R deck seller.

All 4 arrived in-tact. My secret is to send MULTIPLE emails (in a very nice way, not harassing way) to them stating the fact that their deck will be SMASHED TO OBLIVION if they do not follow my suggested packaging methodolgy. This involves triple boxing it, wrapping the deck with NO LESS then $25-$30 in bubble wrap and for the love of God---NO FOAM PEANUTS ANYWHERE! Use hard/soft foam instead. Then use mass amounts of tape on the 3 boxes to make sure nothing can come out.

As a gesture of goodwill, I also offer to send them ADDITIONAL MONEY for packaging/shipping, because I know that is going to all add up. The funny thing is, none of them took me up on that offer and shipped it my way. Got lucky there.

2 of the decks arrived with battered outside boxes but because the sellers followed my procedure, both were perfect inside after that. So IMHO, it's all about the communication to the seller BEFORE they ship it. Yes, some people may get offended by such emails but I always start off my email with, "If you are a pro shipper with massive shipping experience of extremely large and heavy objects across country then please take no offense to what I am about to write...."

One guy was actually grateful I wrote what I did because he was going to plop it in 1 box with peanuts and send it out. He had no idea of the destructive rate on these R2R decks.

[Manalog]

Shipping probably ranks second only to pricing as far as number one buyer complaints. The OP's thoughts and concerns are certainly valid. But I don't think it *just* boils down to seller laziness, ignorance, indifference, or outright neglect. Although that may the case in certain other cases. But there may be another side to it.

Because so many buyers (particularly those of vintage electronics) tend to be a nickel-and-dime picky bunch as a whole, sometimes the buyer is left with little choice BUT to chance it. Too many of us already whine about 'inflated' prices, we kick and scream when it comes to shipping charges. Many of us buyers (particularly ones on AK) think somehow that they are doing the buyer a favor by 'taking that old thing off their hands' and think that free or reduced shipping should be a 'courtesy extended to the buyer by the seller to get their business'.

That just isn't a sustainable mindset. Have any of you BEEN to the USPS, FedEx, or UPS shipping centers lately? Because diesel fuel is now >$5 per gallon, they have no choice BUT to substantially raise the rates. Just shipping a carton of cassette tapes via Priority Mail will now set one back about $10. Imagine what a fully boxed reel to reel would cost (when I recently sold my $3000 X-2000R, the FedEx freight Express Ground was just under $200).

Many buyers already cringe at the thought of paying $200 above and beyond what they originally paid. Especially if the original purchase price was only a couple or few hundred dollars.

Now let's look at the packaging. Some people can get boxes for free if they have access to a shipping warehouse at work. But if they don't, they have no choice but to buy them. A 24"X24"x24" box....JUST THE BOX...will cost about $10 at your local Office Depot. Then, a second box (double boxing as well).Then throw in the requisite styrofoam, bubble wrap, peanuts, etc, and it adds up quick. To *PROPERLY* box a fifty pound piece of gear for safe shipment can cost $35 or more before the package has even left the sellers possession. Then add the actual freight and insurance on top of that. Can you really, in good conscience expect the seller to eat ALL of that? And let's not even begin to talk about Ebay insertion and final value fees. Plus PayPal. When all is said and done, a seller is lucky if he clears seventy cents on the dollar. No wonder the temptation to cut corners on shipping.

It was also noted in the OP that some buyers are willing to pay that extra just to be sure. But they need to make that clear to the seller.

As with the airlines, I really do think that a bit of irrationality is at play here. Much of it is in the verbage and wording. For example, everyone is in an uproar with American Airlines and their new $15 checked bag policy. It carries the perception of 'nickel and diming' fees. Had American simply buried that 'fee' by way of RAISING THE FARES by the same $15, I doubt anyone would've noticed. Even though they are paying the same "extra". I think this is one case where transparency can be a bad thing.

This is why I included the shipping in the sale price of my X-2000R. I was really only hoping for $2500. But people are funny like that. Had I asked $2500+$500 "professsional packing+shipping+insurance", anyone who would've seen that would've accused me of "gouging with inflated shipping charges".

So by upping the asking price to $3000 but including the freight, I still got my wanted $2500. And the buyer didn't even ASK about shipping.

I think the OP is correct. Insisting on (and paying for) professional packaging (just to be on the safe side) is probably the best way to go. Especially for your high end and/or heavier pieces.

Now PAYING for pro packing but still getting a half-assed job, then that's another story.

The cases that have happened to me do in fact boil down to the seller not packing the damn thing right, coupled with rough handling by the shipper finishing the demolition job.

As for cheapskate buyers leaving the seller no choice but to chance it, why WOULD the seller chance it? They're only opening themself up to a pile of unnecessary grief when it gets damaged. The seller shouldn't sell to this type of buyer. And shipping should be settled upfront. As far as mental cases who think they're doing the seller a favor by 'taking that old thing off their hands' & are entitled to reduced or free shipping, they should quite frankly, be told to take a fucking hike. The hell with 'em! They're not serious buyers.

We know we're all stuck with the gas prices & its effect on costs. On my later purchases I would ship 2nd day air or even overnight just to get it out of the system fast. They all arrived safely. All the stuff that was destroyed was shipped regular ground. Even at today's prices, it'll still be worth the good result. You might cringe at the price for awhile, but you'll have that great piece of equipment the rest of your life, unless your fixing & selling, of course. And getting it there in one piece is still the first step. Without that, you ain't doing anything.

As far as packaging goes, no, I don't expect the seller to eat a goddamn thing. I expect the buyer to cover all legit shipping costs. I repeat, legit shipping costs. If it costs the buyer $90 to ship an item & he's charging $200, he's a scumbag. If he charges $90 & then boxed it the right way & I get it & find out it cost only $77, I'll live with it.

Like in your example, when shipping is really expensive as to be offputting even though it's accurate, burying it in the price & declaring free shipping is a brilliant, great marketing ploy. Once we're in the multi thousand dollar territory & long shipping distances are involved, one clean price for the whole thing delivered is a real tempting incentive. That 'free shipping' just tugs at you.

As far as 'paying for professional packing', I would rather buy the proper materials & pack it myself. Way cheaper & you can do it better yourself. I know how to pack a box so it will arrive no matter what they throw at it, short of Godzilla himself picking it up in his mouth & chewing on it. If it's a heavy R2R deck I'll add the metal straps.

I've heard horror stories involving items that were 'professionally packed' at UPS stores, for example. I would never trust them with vintage audio equipment. I will always do that myself. You all can too. Then, at least, you know it was handled by someone who actually cares about it. This is to avoid what you referred to in the last line of your post.

[Manalog]

I have been EXTREMELY lucky with the 4 R2R decks I've bought since February. 3 of them were bought from the exact person you allude too--the person selling Grampa's old deck that they have no clue about. The 4th was bought from a regular R2R deck seller.

All 4 arrived in-tact. My secret is to send MULTIPLE emails (in a very nice way, not harassing way) to them stating the fact that their deck will be SMASHED TO OBLIVION if they do not follow my suggested packaging methodolgy. This involves triple boxing it, wrapping the deck with NO LESS then $25-$30 in bubble wrap and for the love of God---NO FOAM PEANUTS ANYWHERE! Use hard/soft foam instead. Then use mass amounts of tape on the 3 boxes to make sure nothing can come out.

As a gesture of goodwill, I also offer to send them ADDITIONAL MONEY for packaging/shipping, because I know that is going to all add up. The funny thing is, none of them took me up on that offer and shipped it my way. Got lucky there.

2 of the decks arrived with battered outside boxes but because the sellers followed my procedure, both were perfect inside after that. So IMHO, it's all about the communication to the seller BEFORE they ship it. Yes, some people may get offended by such emails but I always start off my email with, "If you are a pro shipper with massive shipping experience of extremely large and heavy objects across country then please take no offense to what I am about to write...."

One guy was actually grateful I wrote what I did because he was going to plop it in 1 box with peanuts and send it out. He had no idea of the destructive rate on these R2R decks.

Great point about the emails. Always very courteous & friendly. I've always had good responses to them & in each case, it led to a successful transaction & that's the whole point.

That's a good example you posted. "If you are a pro shipper...etc". I always lay out my 2 R2R horror stories & let them know I'm just being upfront about making the transaction as easy as possible, so as to avoid unnecessary grief and a waste of both our time. They're always receptive.
I mean, who wants a hassle, right?

One guy turned out to be just a kid. And yes, another one selling Dad's old R2R! He was sort of nervous. He probably got more nervous after my first email. He never shipped anything that heavy & delicate. I walked him through it & it worked out fine. Gave him a great feedback.

[joeljoel1947]

LOL, I do the same thing with regards to letting them know my horror stories---except I haven't had any---so I make them up!! I just tell them "a friend of mine had had the last 3 open reel decks he's purchased from Ebay arrived mangled!". You're right---that usually scares them enough to do a good job packaging.

You and I are on the same page! :)

[Manalog]

".........SMASHED TO OBLIVION if they do not follow my suggested........."

:D:D:D!!!

[Web Police]

Everyone has horror shipping stories they can tell. I never did get a Pioneer CT-F9191 tape deck off of ebay and not through lack of trying. I bought three of them in great condition and had the sellers promises they knew how to pack. Needless to say all three arrived badly damaged. :( All three were returned and I received refunds on all three.

The deck only weighs like 30 pounds but everyone seems to think one thin wall carton and a handful of peanut will protect it. :rolleyes:

[Doug_Olitsky]

Two long stories short....

McIntosh MC2102 packed in original factory crate- Lost in shipment, by act of GOD discovered it made its way to the Mc factory. Thry opened the box- units completely destroyed and had to be rebuilt tubes and some pcb's were all that remained useable. FEDEX they paid the $3500 repair bill but it took several months for approvals


McIntosh MR78 shipped in new factory shipping crate- unit damaged bent dial tuning shaft. FEDEX paid the $300 repair.


My solution is to only buy items I can p/u in person. Or I can have a friend get. IE- friend picked up a McIntosh MC2200 for me in Syracuse, NY on the way back from one of his trips up there.

[braxus]

Joel (and others),

Can you possible write your packing instructions list here for others to use? I'd like to see what you came up with so when I finally get my r2r deck, I can borrow your list to send to the seller.

[Manalog]

Hey Braxus,

Here's some info worth looking at:


http://wardsweb.org/packandship/

http://www.reelprosoundguys.com/packing.html

Note to Des:If I'm crossing any lines by posting these feel free to delete them.

[Manalog]

Hey Des,

Shouldn't this thread be a sticky?

I mean, getting it there in one piece is half the battle. *reelspin**reelspin**reelspin*

[stuwee]

I've been more then extremely lucky, my first two e-bay purchases were the Marantz 2270's, not a lightweight receiver, one had the wood cab. I told the seller, I wanted the cab shipped seperately, they agreed, I get home from work and there's one big box on the front porch, tracking showed 2pm del. I got home at 4:30pm anyone could have stopped and struggled to drag it into a car. I got lucky. the reciever was shipped in the cab against my instructions but, very nicely packed and no damage.:-)<- when the second one was on it's way I was off on the del date. I talked to the driver, he'd had the route for years. He agreed to put anything behind the big bush by the door in the future, he kept his word. 5 or 6 units since all got to me safely.

I would never trust a TT or a RtR to be shipped to me, unless impeccable refs could be checked out. Period. I'd do with out before I opened a box of bit's whether I got my $$ back or not. Just my *twocents*

[Fast Forward]

Had my R2R arrived damaged thanks to DHL,,Natuarlly there was some initial BS from DHL but I informed them that I took a ton of Pics with my camera phone even showing that they re-taped the Box after dropping it took pics of all the packing material,also had it insured,, I also made sure the check for the insurance settlement came to me instead of the seller bottom line was a piece missing from one of the wood sides a busted up Dust cover and a free deck ,, paid a tech 40.00 to check the deck which tested fine,,,Teacs are Tanks

[TheReeler]

I hope none of you think I'm doing spam or pub here... but I related my story sometime ago here:

http://reeltoreelworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/tip-how-to-pack-reel-to-reel-deck-for.html

It's easy to paste the URL than to copy the text entirely and to paste the images too...

[Danger Boy]

for the love of God---NO FOAM PEANUTS ANYWHERE! Use hard/soft foam instead.

Should I say it again? NO FOAM PEANUTS ANYWHERE!

those foam peanuts move around and settle down as the box gets handled and pretty soon.. the tight secure item inside the box is no longer secure, because the peanuts settled.

I learned this the hard way.. the first receiver I shipped years ago... I used those foam peanuts.. and sure as shit... it arrived with one corner dented on the receiver. Never again did I ever use foam peanuts. *no*

[Web Police]

I use foam peanuts but sparingly. they are never loose in the box, but rather I put the foam peanuts inside of an inner box and that inner box and peanuts serve as a shock absorber. I usually make thin boxes 1.5 to 2 inches think that are the same dimensions as the outer carton, that way the contents I am shipping are located in an inner carton and that inner carton is insulated from the double wall outer carton anywhere from 1.5 to 6 inches depending upon what I am shipping. It may take an hour to unpack the item when the buyer gets it, but I have never had anything damaged in shipping period.

[MacGyver]

indeed, i paid $30.00 shipping in addition to the $20.00 base price on my CT-W910R. the guy said that for that price it would have the best packing, double box and all. so, it comes, and it's in a flimsy box that's beginning to split on one corner. open up, and the "Double Boxing" turns out to be the deck wrapped well in bubble wrap, with a broken down cardboard box taped around that, suspended in peanuts. i do not believe i paid $30.00 for Pseudo Double Boxing. thankfully, it made it through with only this minor damage that i promptly fixed...



http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/PIONEER/DSCF0768.jpg

you will notice the broken front panel stay flange there; right angle split at the screw hole. a bit of superglue, and it's all good. the forward list of the front panel was corrected as well...

[Manalog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeljoel1947 View Post
for the love of God---NO FOAM PEANUTS ANYWHERE! Use hard/soft foam instead.
Posted by Danger Boy - Should I say it again? NO FOAM PEANUTS ANYWHERE!

Key word-'structure'. Peanuts are worthless & corners are deadly. Hard styrofoam cut to fit or equivalent, packed tight so there's NO movement. A rigid block that can survive being dropped, even with a corner hitting the ground first. Double-boxed, of course.

Otherwise, 65 lbs. of tape recorder, gravity & shipper, (especially UPS, IMO), have their own magical way of combining into one very special result. *reelspin**reelspin**reelspin*

[4tified]

Macintosh SE...

I won the auction for this old-as-dust-fart computer on eBay (I won't get into how his description on the working condition was completely falsified). When I received the package, from the time I picked it up off my doorstep, I knew something wasn't right. The "contents" shifted completly to the other side, causing me to almost drop the package. So...when I opened the box, lo and behold, there was a 3/4" piece of styrophone, 50 or 60 packing peanuts, and some paper. Computer was not securly held in place, I'm betting that's the reason it wouldn't turn on. This is by far not the worst example I can think of, but it is the only one I can remember right now. That in combination with USPS's blatent disrespect for people's packages/property simply baffles me. (If you want something to arrive safe and hassle free, use Fex-Ex or UPS, the extra is worth it).

People definatley need to use common sense when packing items (especially sensitive items). Foam works great and is easy to dispose of. Packing peanuts don't fair very well with heavy objects. And their a complete mess whenever you retrive your item from the box or try to dispose of the box itself! What a waste of time!*fit*

[BroonsBane]

It's truly amazing isn't it? Common sense doesn't exist with so many sellers. They have your money and that's all that matters. I once bought a Parasound cd player which was shipped to me from Montreal wrapped ONLY in a plastic garbage bag and placed in a box. That's it! Miraculously it arrived completely intact. The shipping gods were smiling on me that day *worship*

[douglas787]

I have shipped and received several decks over the past couple of years. With the internet it's about the only way to buy and sell vintage equipment nowdays.

When you buy a deck email the seller and ask him to PLEASE carefully pad it. If you are buying from someone who sells a lot of gear he will already know this. If you are buying from an average Joe then give him some packing tips.

1. First things first, Remove the spindles or reels tables if possible. This is easy on the Teac x decks as they are held on by three screws that come off from the outside. Lean the deck forward using a helper for this part as a rigged up repair could mean some extra washers under the reel tables and we don't want anything falling into the deck. Wrap and set aside.

2. Remove knobs, head covers, cords ect and wrap label the wrapping as to were they go. Head covers stay on if there is a chance the heads will be touched. I ship with a plastic box over them, and any fragile selector knobs or toggles.

3. Cover all deck openings with plastic wrap (steel it from your wife)

4. Get the whole deck covered in plastic. I like plain plastic bags that come on a roll because they are cheap.

5. Get some COUCH cushions!! Go to any apartment complex around you and check around their dumpster. Renters constantly leave behind sofas when they move. Get out a razor knife and cut the fabric off. The back pads and seats have high density foam in them. Pack around your deck with about 5 inches of foam on all sides. Seal up using a separate box for the reels and other parts. On the deck box I like to cut in a couple of handles. The delivery boy is less likely to drop it if he can pick it up easier. Mark where the handles are with big "lift here" labels.

When you receive a deck do not open and plug in like a kid a christmas.

1. If the deck has been out in the cold allow 24 hours for the deck to reach the same temp as your house and for condensation to evaporate.

2. Go to a very quite room and turn the deck around and around like a chicken on a rotorsary, and listen for anything like a loose screw rattling around in the deck. If the deck is turned on and the screw or penny or whatever causes a short, you will regret it.

3. Open her up a vaccum the unit. Leave the covers off for now. Check the line voltage selector if your deck has one. They are sometimes set wrong. Look for loose screws, wire near moving parts and cracked pc boards.

4. Turn on and run her through her paces. Hopefully this part goes well, but I would give you about one chance in three that it will. If not you did what you could.

[Cellist]

I just spent half an hour unpacking a ReVox B77, which arrived in excellent shape. This young lady should give classes on packing R2R's; or I've just been very lucky.
Fritz

[the_gimp]

I just recivied a realistic SCR-4500. The Hi-fi gods were smiling for on this ebay purchase. The unit was packed in a single box with a hand full of peanuts and newspaper stuffed on one side. The box was dammaged and worned. For some unknown reason the unit was not damaged, it was shipped with Fedex ground.*fit*

[DaveInVA]

I've got so many shipping horror stories I'd use up all the space this website is alloted if I told them all.
One of my most memorable ones is a NOS Marantz SLT12u turntable I bought off Fleabay. The seller shipped it in its original 1967 ish box and packing even though I asked it to be double boxed with a box around the original box. The cardboard was old and brittle the box accordioned. The turntables wood base split apart at the corners and the pendulum gears got bent and the unit was not repairable. I was only able to get a partial refund and UPS of course denied the claim.
Same thing with a Concertone model 63 r2r. They shipped it in the original 1959 box and it just disintegrated. Its a shame vbecause the box alone would have been worth something still surviving after 50 years. The 2r2 was in a metal suitcase and it was all dented up and the capstan shaft was busted off the motor. Never got a refund and had to leave a neg on that one.
Another fun one was a Sony 854-4 r2r that came wrapped in old, used, rotten carpet padding AND NO BOX. Just rolled in the padding, wrapped in duct tape and a label attached. The wood case and both spool tables were busted.
My favorite though is a Rek-O-Kut (now known as Wreck-O-Kut) Challenger record cutting lathe. It weighed maybe 70-80 lbs and was put in an old single layer cardboard TV box with NO padding of any kind. You couldn't have done more damage to this with repeated wacks from a large sledge hammer. Literly looks like it was dropped from the roof of a 5 story building onto a concrete pad. I've attached a pic of that one. Again, Unrepentant Parcel Smashers denied the claim and sellers denied any responsibility blaming it on UPS. There was virtually nothing salvageable. Even the can capacitors were torn off the chassis.
Its also always fun to receive tubes in padded envelopes and straight faced the sellers play dumb like they actually thought they'd arrive other than like a bag full of small glass particles.

Dave

[MacGyver]

that's sad to know. i had an issue with my 1988 PIONEER CLD-3030 LD Player (that i was lucky to obtain, as the seller claims less than 30 hours of use on it) when the seller shipped the poor thing in a low profile box barely larger than the player with room only for the deck with it's manual on top wrapped in bubble sheet, it's remote wrapped the same, and the five included LDs wrapped in paper, all this leaving space for but a small measure of packing peanuts. miraculously, the set arrived in perfect cosmetic condition. still, i knew something was amiss when the player would not eject the tray, and the FL display would ceaselessly flash. fortunately, i found the problem the next day in the form of the jointed plastic T-bar holding the pick-up assembly to it's drive shaft popped off it's mountings. it was a simple matter of snapping the T-bar home again, and working the mechanics through their travel until the whole assembly fell back into alignment, and has not given me a shade of trouble since...

[DaveInVA]

I just received an Akai 345 tube r2r from an Fleabay auction I won. Its about 60 lbs and in a vinyl covered wood cabinet. They "boxed" it by taking sheets of carboard cut from boxes and literly taping them over the deck! No packing or padding of any kind, Just cardboard taped and form fitted to the unit. It came UPS Ground and you can guess what kind of shape its in. Cabinet splintered in multiple places, lid crushed, even BOTH VU meters are broken. Not much salvageable here. I haven't even bothered to try and look inside whats left of the cabinet to see the carnage that awaits me there.. So far no response from ebay seller to my ebay message about the damage. When I will I ever learn not to buy any more 2r2's from Fleabay. I only bought it because I have another one also destroyed in shipping and was hoping this one would fare better so I could make a good one from the two. This one is so bad there are not enough parts between the two to make a good one. The other one had simliar damage including both VU meters busted. The pivots for the needles actually broke off from the whack they got.
Sorry, just needed to rant....

Dave

[douglas787]

When buying a valuable deck from ebay and the seller does not have a lot of shipping experence, you can send him a shipping case and he can sent the deck back to you in that. It does add expense, but it is easier and cheaper than reparing.

[DaveInVA]

The seller that sent me the Akai 345 that got destroyed VIA UPS due to poor packing just refunded the full amount of the sale including shipping. I still wish he'd just taken the time to pack it properly so another piece of electronic history wouldn't have gotten lost but I am glad he came through and did the right thing considering the situation...He was the exception and not the rule unfortunately.


Dave

[braxus]

I wrote up a letter for a potential shipper to package up a reel to reel deck come the time I get one. This is what I came up with. Please someone correct me below if something I wrote should be brought to my attention. Here goes:


"Box Packing for Reel to Reel Deck:

Note: I will pay extra to pay for getting these materials listed below if you do not already have them. Do NOT allow UPS to box this up for you by their own way of packing, as they DO NOT have the experience in shipping Audio gear and heavy items like this. I will only allow them to help you package the box if the instructions below are followed to a T. You will probably have to at least do part of the start of packing before bringing it to UPS if you get them to do this for you. Again I will pay you extra for shipping and materials as long as what is written below is followed. I would prefer you package this for me if you feel comfortable doing so and will follow the instructions below. If these instructions are not followed, the deck will almost certainly be DESTROYED in shipping due to the weight of the item and all the projecting parts on it. These units do not take jarring very well and will damage the internals if subjected to heavy abuse. I will not be held responsible for damage to the deck if these packing instructions are not followed. The deck will be returned to you if damage occurs and these instructions are not followed. THIS is why I will pay extra for packing so all below is done.

1. Protect the spindles of the reel tables, they are very delicate. These are the silver spindles that the tape itself is inserted into while in use and are on either side of the upper part of the deck. Cut a square piece of hard packaging material and make it a hole where will be hidden the spindle. Do the same with the other spindle. Make sure these hard cutouts are securely in place and will not come off. Also make sure the material doesn’t crush with any force.

2. Since the deck has more delicate parts like spindles (switches, tension arms, knobs) that are suitable to break, protect them as said in point 1. Use again a hard material to cover these parts and is securely in place.

3. Once all projecting parts are covered over with the hard covers and securely in place, use a transparent Saran wrap like material like the ones used for food and cover the entire deck with it. Put lots of layers all around the deck, it will convert into 'not-so-transparent'.

4. Buy a very large amount of the larger 1 inch bubbles size bubble wrap. Put several layers of this bubble wrap all around the deck on all sides. Make sure this bubble wrap layers adds a minimum of 6 to 7 inches to the size of the deck for packing. So the bubble wrap must be a minimum of 6 inches thick on each side. Tape securely so the wrap does not come un-done, shift around, or move. You may have to tape the bubble wrap every coupe layers to make sure it is secure.

5. Put this large wrapped deck into a box large (7 or so inches larger in each dimension then the deck itself) and strong enough to hold the weight of the deck. Any spaces left after putting the bubble wrapped deck in, fill these spaces with 1 inch thick styrofoam material. Cut this Styrofoam to fit inside the box if needed, but make sure the majority of the pieces are of one piece. If there are still air spaces left, fill these with left over bubble wrap. Do NOT use foam peanuts if you can not cut the 1 inch thick Styrofoam to fit. Do NOT under any circumstances substitute foam peanuts in place of the 1 inch thick Styrofoam. Peanuts are known to shift when heavy weight is placed upon them and this will NOT protect the deck inside. The deck must not be able to move at all once inside this large box. Seal up this box securely. Get second larger box ready (see note below on size of that box) for double boxing. This second box must be of thick cardboard to be used with heavy items.

6. Get a box 8 or 10 inches bigger than the "small" box. Throw more of the 1 inch thick Styrofoam material on all sides but the top to fill up the space inside the second box, until you make a 4 or 5 inches deep layer.

7. Put the small box inside the big box, centered and refill all spaces in the top, bottom, left, right and over with 1 inch styrofoam. Any left over space, tightly pack left over bubble wrap inside the big box. Again the box inside must not be able to move while in the larger outer box.

8. Close the big box. Tightly tape up all sides of the outer box and wrap packing tape all around the box a few times so nothing can come undone. This tape must circle the box a few times before the tape is cut. Put tape also around the edges of the box where the flaps are sitting.

9. Get full value and coverage of insurance on the shipping of the box when being delivered to UPS.

Thankyou for co-operating. I will leave feedback once I have inspected the deck upon being in my hands."

[MacGyver]

sounds rock solid to me, brax!!*thumbsup*

[gamve]

Thanks Brax, Just used your instructions to send to a seller so he can ship the 3 x R2R decks I just brought from him.
Cheers
Graham

[DALEK SUPREME DL]

I have just won a Revox B77 on E-Bay...the seller does not have the original packaging and frankly I am so paranoid about it that I am getting a ferry on Tuesday early am to go get it from him in Scotland.

I am also in talks with a seller about an Akai machine. He has all the original packaging (excellent) and I have discussed what I would do to add extra protection to it. He agreed with me, and went so far as to indicate he had been thinking along similar lines as I had. All accessories, reels, remote, mains plugs, all to go in a separate box. Extra card to go in original box and round corners of wood box the deck is in, plus bubble wrap etc to stop any movement etc + two extra layers of card board around original box + layers of bubble wrap and finally plastic wrap/bags to cover entire package...making sure he knows which ways are up etc. Hes happy to do all this. I wish I could pick it up but he lives hundreds of miles away. We are still sorting out all the details....nothing finalized yet.

I once saw a carrier drop a single Townsend Sir Gallahad speaker of the back of a lorry. The speakers metal skin split and tar/bitumin leaked every where....these were for a Hi-Fi show the shop I worked in was about to do. I also once had to sign for a delivery of Yamaha amplifiers and tape decks. The boxes were wrecked. "No" I said to the driver I won't sign for them..."Why ?" he asked. I pointed to the writing on the boxes "Useless if dropped" These looked like a hundred football players had stamped on them. "You must sign for them" "No I wont". "You can't do that" he said getting angry. There followed a stand off in the shop...he rang his boss and took the boxes away. Every time he made a delivery I made him stand and watch as I checked every box fully all faces etc....he hated me. What kind of morons work in that industry...its all about getting the items A to B safely not in bits quickly. Breakages and compensation must cost a fortune in lost profits to courier companies/post......what a bunch of asses.

Regards D S D L