Help Bouncing 4 tracks onto 1 track Tascam Portastudio 424 mkII

[bklyn_noise]

Hey - noobie here to the forum and to working with a 4 track cassette recorder (though I searched the forum for answers before posting the followin).

I recorded drums using 4 mics (kick, snare, overhead 1, overhead 2) onto 1 track per mic using the direct function. I am able to play all of the tracks back, eq them, etc. no problem. However, I want to bounce all 4 tracks onto 1 track (i.e. bounce tracks 1-4 onto track 1).

I keep on trying this, but everytime I do this, only tracks 2-4 will end up being bounced onto track 1 (thus I am losing the kick when I bounce the tracks).

After I recorded the initial tracks onto tracks 1-4, I set all of the 4 channel pans to the far left, and chose Buss L on track 1 so that they would record to track 1. The input selection for each channel was set to tape (as opposed to off or mic/line).

Please let me know if this is actually possible to do, or are you not able to use the recording from 1 track and bounce it to its same track along with the others (maybe im missing something with the overdubbing)?

Thanks

[vinyldavid]

I am 99.98% sure that you can only bounce 3 to 1, not 4 to 1. Sorry :/

If you really need to do that, Bounce to an external deck and back....otherwise I'd just retake it using 3 tracks.

[bklyn_noise]

shoot. that's what i was afraid of. well i guess i can just use an external mixer to do the drums...

unless anyone else knows if there's a way to bounce the 4 tracks onto 1 track? Or in general, bouncing a track onto the same track (i.e. bouncing tracks 1-2 onto track 1 - I can't do this either, though I can bounce track 1-2 onto track 3 or 4).

[Warped Bezel]

I would use and external mixer and save the original so that you can easily rebuild the mix withm those tracks later or (and clean up each individually).

If it sounds counter to what you'd like to do sampling them to your computer allows you correct any number of characteristics sithout a major re-recording session and you will no doubt think of something to do with those tracks aka freestyling dubs, dance permutations and modifying for loops.

Remember that the iconic hip-hop break beat itself came from somebody messing with looping and WHAM!

PS It's nearly 45 years old, that break!

[bklyn_noise]

Hey, I'm actually looking to record a punk/noise/experimental band as follows:

drums - 4 tracks (kick, snare, overhead 1, overhead 2) bounced to 1 track
guitar - 2 tracks (rhythm and lead) bounced to 1 track
vocals - 2 tracks (lead and backup) bounced to 1 track
bass - 1 track

This requires doing all of the parts separate (which sucks), but with only 4 tracks avail and doing it in a shitty basement, I figured this would be able to get the best sound with the least amount of bleed.

Before I was using Logic 9 and an 8 track interface, but I really like the raw/compressed/slightly overdriven sound of tape that pushed a lil bit.

[Warped Bezel]

It was noted that Bruce Springsteen used nothing but a Fostex X-18 to create Nebraska but I'm not sure that he didn't mix to reel later.

Are there building blocks that you can add to and can you enlist two friends to work with you so that it doesn't become countless hours of creating toupee sales from anxiety? Do you have enough structure and process completed to work solo right now?

Experiments usually take form better with co-conspirators. I would say dump to the computer regularly. It will become a valuable tool in the end and even for a completely analog project you will be able to go over your ideas in the mix without touching the cassette until you know what to do.

[vinyldavid]

Tascam 144, WB. IF he recorded that on a Fostex X-18....he'd both a time traveler and incredibly lucky....I have a X-18 somewhere in the basement and it's crap.

And Springsteen probably mixed to R2R before cutting the vinyl, but it was cassette.

[bklyn_noise]

Hey WB - These are compositions of mine that I rehearse regularly with my band and we play out. In other words, the arrangement is ready for recording, we're solid on the materia,l and can do our parts in 1-2 good takes.

I write all of the tunes initially in Logic using, the plug ins for guitar and bass amps/pedal, etc. and the ultrabeat (for drum sequencing), which after completing, I send to my band to learn. At that point we usually make some edits to the arrangement, and add everyone's personal touch, to the point where we play it live or decide to record it.

To give you a better idea...here's two tracks we recorded in my basement using Logic and a low-end interface... http://robotdeathkites.bandcamp.com/ - you will notice that the song is completed, but the overall sound of the project would benefit from having more of that raw/tape/slightly distorted sound (especially for the drums and bass), and a better mix.

[Warped Bezel]

Boy Howdy! I met one of your site mates on You Tube and am buying his CD at month's end

http://www.youtube.com/user/theunnamablemusic

It's a small studio, ain't it?

I listened to Fight Or Flight...nice work!

I won't comment on a lot because I'm using the crappy speakers in the laptop right now but I enjoyed the song, the composition worked great.

Sounds like I haven't got a lot to tell you as you know it.

:)

[bklyn_noise]

hey, thanks for taking a listen!! not sure who that person you gave the link for is, but it sounded pretty cool anyways.

[Skywavebe]

Getting back to the question at hand,
How did you expect to bounce a 4 track tape down to the one track that you had already used? In bouncing predetermined mixes to a single track it is best to do it either externally and record the result to one track or use a machine with a lot more tracks available like a Tascam 38 which will gives you better results anyway. Some guys who have larger studios have told me they record it all in digital and then mix to two tracks on a 1/2 track reel deck for the tape sound. This is a little trick you might try.

[bklyn_noise]

hey skywavebe - thanks for confirming that i can't bounce multiple tracks down to the same track that I am already using as one of the bounced tracks (i.e. bouncing tracks 1-2 down to track 1 = track 1 now only has track 2 on it, and the original track 1 is erased).

I've messed around a little with recording to my DAW and then running a stereo mix into the tascam, which definitely improves the quality of the audio and gives the overall track more of a tape feel. However, I really wanna be able to record the instruments straight to tape first so that I can get the natural compression and distortion (and overall bigger sound in my opinion) by pushing the input gain when I initially record the individual tracks, as opposed to adding a general "mastering" tape compression/gain for the whole mix.

Let me know what you think of the following approach I have come up with:

Record Drums First (using Glyn Johns mic technique):
Track 1 = Kick mic
Track 2 = snare mic
Track 3 = mono mix (from external mixer) of 2 overheads.

Mix down and bounce to track 4.

Record Guitars:
Track 1 = lead
Track 2 = rhythm

Mix down and bounce to track 3.

Record Bass:
Track 2 = DI from amp head, no cab.

Mix for playback.

Record Vocals:
Track 1 = direct (for songs with backup vocals, will use external mixer and send via mono out).


Mix all four tracks. Use Alesis Nanoverb 2 in effects loop to beef up the sound. slightly pan the guitar track to one side and the vocals to another (litterally just a slight amount).

Record into DAW for digital file. Record onto tape or CD direct as well?


Just a note, these are for demos, not an LP. We're hopin to record a 6-8 tune EP/LP with my friends 8-track reel-to-reel in March.


The only other way I thought of doing this is to get an 8 track mixing board with 4 bus outputs so that we can record more in a live sense, but then I will deal with bleeding between all of the mics (remember I'm doing this in an open roomed basement), and I won't have the ability to eq/mix the drums as well (let alone overdriving their input onto the tape) using this method.

Thanks for your help again.

[vinyl_junkie_1620]

It was a 144 and it was mixed down to a even crappier Panasonic boom box cassette recorder, read the whole story here:

http://tascam.com/news/display/226/

Tascam 144, WB. IF he recorded that on a Fostex X-18....he'd both a time traveler and incredibly lucky....I have a X-18 somewhere in the basement and it's crap.

And Springsteen probably mixed to R2R before cutting the vinyl, but it was cassette.