New on the market high-end tape deck!

[niklasthedolphin]

Now if a new to the market high performance Cassette or Reel to Reel deck was to be manufactured, what technologies, what qualities, what functions should be build into it and would it have any buyers?

Quality above function.

No Auto Reverse.

Dual capstan close loop.

3 heads for deleting, recording and playback.
1 seperate for premagnetizing.
Maybe one or more seperate heads for time codes, a secondary track configuration etc.

2 winding motors and one play motor.
One motor for movement of the bridge as well.

Bias level and record level adjustments for each channel for each tape type and for each speed.
Adjustments knobs on the front.
No automatics here but remote controlled is ok.

Winding speed adjustment.

Mixing option. Record "ready" for each track before recording.

Azimuth on both rec and playback head like The TOTL Tandberg but with a dead point on the calibrating knob.
No automatics here but remote controlled is ok.

Analog peak meters with hold function.

Two speeds on Cassette; Three or four speeds on Reel2Reel.

Real time programmable double conter with memory, flags, last and zero.

Pitch +/- 75% with accurate speed read out.

Cue function with build in head wear protection.

HX-Pro

I/O calibration function/button as well as adjustable input/output.

Cassette tape lock-down/release.

MPX

Belt driven...........but accessible belts.

OTL tube amplification circuits.

Computer control of functions.

All volume controls (In/Out/Balance etc.) in digitaly controled analog signal handling matrix attenuators with > 1000 steps.

Direct from head (including eq correction circuits etc.) output option.

NAB/IIEC on R2R and even full adjustment to tape types on R2R too. Secured for future formulations. Type I, II, III, IV and V where five is with manualy adjustabel EQ (the bias and rec level is already fully adjustable) on both Cassette and R2R.


I should stop and let other tape nerds *btoast* come up with some suggestions now..............

Go ahead folks.

"dolph"

[stuwee]

Wow "dolph", I think you pretty much nailed it! The cassette deck sounds alot like the monster Technics 2-piece TOTL deck from the 80's that sold back in the summer on ebay. I'd only add I'd like it to do the dishes or, as Sir John Gielgud said to Dudley Moore in the movie '10' "Perhaps I could wash your dick, sir"? -noteeth-.

Seriously, I like what you've listed so far, I'd only change the mettering set up to neddles peak reading with LED's in an angled arc with a peak hold feature behind.

[stuartypoorty]

Intriguing musings there Niklas, some very sound suggestion taken together with electronic advances since cassette was last in mass production.

Leaving reel to reel aside, as I think studios looking to replace current analogue machinery would pick up on that, and concentrating on cassette, I'd like to think potential would exist for such a relaunch.

My thoughts, actually music lover daydream #9, would be, say a company such as Nagra, developing a valve deck and improving the transport mechanism of a Revox 4 motor (arguably the best at time of production, another Swiss design) and develop a dual chassis design.

I expect cost would be high due to engineering and production numbers, still I wonder what the sales figures are for high end preamps for instance.

That said, as we all know there is a market for cassette, I suspect many tapedeck owners would like that last final upgrade and be prepared to buy. Are there significant numbers in the generation below us who would show interest, if vinyl is anything to go by then yes, albeit it'd be a niche product. I believe a great leap of faith would be required by manufacturer and public too, but never say never.

[Scorpion8]

Auto-Program search to find say the 3rd song from the beginning and play it.

Decent lighting of the tape well, maybe well lighting that can be turned on high during editing/recording and turned off for smoky-jazz nightime moods.....

High resolution meters w/good refinements switchable from peak to averaging.

Comes in a variety of finishes to match home systems (black, silver, etc) or studio setups. rack mount and/or an array of wood finished side panels.

[niklasthedolphin]

I have been thinking weird thought on transport mechanisms in Turntables and Tape recorders during the years.

Maybe some of it comes from my hang to wrist watches.

Why not make an upscale of a High Quality watch movement like Vacheron Constantin, Glashütte or Ulysse Nardin and let it pull the machine or Turntable around instead of AC or DC motors and that way make the tape recorder or Turn Table independent of power?
*eyepop*

When it comes to Turn Tables, why not let the platter rest on electromagnetics so no touch to the plinth exists?
One could even make the electromagnetism in a way so it was the source of driving the platter around with veru accurate speed.
*eyepop*

I have a lot of ideas like that.

But some I keep to myself for later patent considerations.

:-)

I think the light idea in the cassette well is a great idea that already is in use in my machines now.
Shouldn't we put that light into the tape head bridge on the R2R as well?

I don't know what to use the VU metering for but it's an idea for an option.

The Auto search is not realy optimising sound quality.
Can it be made without compromising the sound quality and as a part of the cueing function with head wear protection?

Finish. Good idea.
How about making it kind of like cell phones with interchangable covers and then provide the machine with a shock protected solid chassis and like good dSLR cameras make it dust and humid protected too?

"dolph"

[Marc Hugo]

Good stuff Dolph,

Perhaps I missed it - but I would need all existing Dolbys, especially S; and Dolby SR would be nice too. Some are fans of DBX. Perhaps an off-board module for these things.

Although I like fully metered manual calibration, it should be the enthusiasts option to an accurate automatic calibration. Like a Nikon F series - aperture priority, shutter priority or fully metered manual for those like us who know better. Choice is good.

A gift box of things inside that die.......

Cheers - Marc

[niklasthedolphin]

Good stuff Dolph,

Perhaps I missed it - but I would need all existing Dolbys, especially S; and Dolby SR would be nice too. Some are fans of DBX. Perhaps an off-board module for these things.

Although I like fully metered manual calibration, it should be the enthusiasts option to an accurate automatic calibration. Like a Nikon F series - aperture priority, shutter priority or fully metered manual for those like us who know better. Choice is good.

A gift box of things inside that die.......

Cheers - Marc

I have to say that in this matter I do not agree.

Manual adjustment og bias, rec level, azimuth etc. gives better results than automatic ditto IF you have the patience, the ears, the meters and the gear.

Dolby A, B, C, S and High Com, Tel-Com, dbx I, II, III, AEC, MXR, DNL, SAE and more could all be somewhere internal or external but it isn't all for the quality so let's make some choises here.

DNL is single ended and has no compatibility probs. It works pretty good but was never realy released from Philips to be incorporated in other decks.

Dolby B and C has been represented in a lot of decks. Most of the tapes been recorded with these dolby's are adscripted to the deck they are recorded on.
For playback of older tapes maybe there is a reason to build in these NR.'s but then it has to be with allignment options on the front.

DBX made a seperate unit once that are working almost as good as HX-Pro. Was it the 929?

I already put in the HX-Pro from post one because it's the best of them all. Not known as much of a NR system as a Head Room expander, though.

The DNL and the Tandberg Dyneq is very similar and are both great.

So what are the choises?

I would choose the very common Dolby B and C and take the allignments out on knobs.
No reason for Dolby S on a deck of this quality and Dolby S was very uncommon so playback issues of old tapes related to this would not be a real problem compared to the expence of incorporating it.

I would, though, also accept the well working dbx 929 (or whatever name it had) with fully allignment controls and full bypass option on it.

All NR systems and HeadRoom Expanders should be optionaly bypassed.

And now we're at it, let's also use the Actilinear Recording system for the quality it gives.

"dolph"

[braxus]

http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=6

My reply above.

[niklasthedolphin]

http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=6

My reply above.

Hey........................that's cool.

I do not agree in center cassette well.
I disagree on all automatic calibrations.
I do not agree on SS or digital output circuits.
I disagree on DD.
I disagree on phantom power. Use dedicated microphone amps instead.
I disagree on the battery supply.
That's another goal/task in itself to make a transportable "on location" recorder.
Power conditioner is a very populistic, and in my world unnecessary, term. Let's just say the power circuit will be build to best specs.
No demagnetizing on power up. Demagnetizing is supposed to be done without power.

I will add this on my list of what I like:
"balanced signal paths (aka Rotel), common ground paths (aka Luxman), and dual mono audio board (Sony TC-KA7ES)"
Except that Rotel's balancing mostly has been fakes.
:-)
But most people will need RCA plugs so let's make a switchable option of real ballanced and non ballanced output.

If I didn't already do it, I want to ad option on precise speed read out on one of the two counters, including speed read out on any pitch chosen.

Let's build this machine when we get this sorted out for the quality............not for the options.

Keep them ideas comming.

"dolph"

[qubeular]

ive thought ( nay, obsessed) over this one in the past.

id want two models, one purely analog and one with digital stuff.

the analog version is very much been described in detail.



ill describe the slightly digital version.

backlit screen ( b/w is fine)

horizontal and lateral jog wheels.

the display can be used to change settings, volume, nr etc.

one thing i would want the display to do is show both input and output frequency display on both channels as well as having a configurable multipoint parametric for both input and output as well.

lets see, manual override for both eq and bias.

as well as computerized autobias.


there would be a few levels of access to the controls. including one that allows you to change the bias frequency and level across a wide, no, insane! range.


oh yeah, discrete head.

direct drive capstan shafts as well as direct drive reel movement, all synthesized.

oh yes, four track selectable with independent erase for every channel.

that means up to all four tracks could be recorded at once.

speeds standardized on 1 7/8 and 3 3/4 with 100% pitch control.


hx, b,c,s and dbx II.

i wouldnt care much for anything but b and maybe dbx tho i havent tried s.

oh yeah, and the deck has a usb port capable of recording and sampling at 96khz.

this would cost much less than the purely analog version obviously.

[niklasthedolphin]

Should a digital one of the kind use cassette tapes as media??
Like DCC but with another hardware technology and coding?

If digital, why not use Hard Disc and CD-R?

You won't get the same quality as in the analog one anyway.
And yes indeed, the digital one will be cheaper.

The functions you describe in the digital one, qubeular, is almost possible to get in HD based recorders of today.
Go for it.
Make a little research and see how close you can get to your target.

Keep the suggestions comming guys................and girls.
*Hi5*

"dolph"

[qubeular]

the caeette would still be analog, but with digitally assisted controls.

and, idk, usb and spdif ins and outs.

[niklasthedolphin]

the caeette would still be analog, but with digitally assisted controls.

and, idk, usb and spdif ins and outs.

Why ruin the analog signal in that way?
If the signal path is digital, would it not be more convenient with the the flexibility of digital storage?

I'm not sure I get the point?

"dolph"

[braxus]

I do not agree on SS or digital output circuits....Let's build this machine when we get this sorted out for the quality............not for the options.

The reason I mentioned the output circuitry as I stated was people will need this deck most likely for dubbing their collections over to digital. That is why I offered the tube output (if you like that sound), and the digital outputs. Its basically plug and play.

Curious about your last comment above. Are you really planning on getting someone to build such a deck? Or is this basically a dream like my post was?

[qubeular]

im sure id get tons of complaints about using the d word.

yeah, im talking digital control not digital audio aside from having the digital / analog conversion circuitry for component/computer hookups.

i currently have my deck set up with an analog/usb switch on the front. its a sony tc-k670 so line in is analog, cd is usb.



im sure this is blasphemy, and youll hear none of it.


if it shaves off a few hundred if not thousand from a price tag while also giving better control of eq as well as paremetric.

id be interested.

not only that, but automatic multi point eq for the cassettes with wierd response curves like the hx and hd8. well, that would be fine by me.

and to eq a metal bias cassette for 120 microsecond playback eq.

well, that would just be cool.

[niklasthedolphin]

im sure id get tons of complaints about using the d word.

yeah, im talking digital control not digital audio aside from having the digital / analog conversion circuitry for component/computer hookups.

i currently have my deck set up with an analog/usb switch on the front. its a sony tc-k670 so line in is analog, cd is usb.



im sure this is blasphemy, and youll hear none of it.


if it shaves off a few hundred if not thousand from a price tag while also giving better control of eq as well as paremetric.

id be interested.

not only that, but automatic multi point eq for the cassettes with wierd response curves like the hx and hd8. well, that would be fine by me.

and to eq a metal bias cassette for 120 microsecond playback eq.

well, that would just be cool.

If I forgot to write about fully adjustable Equalization for tape types, that's my mistake.

It should be adjustabel from somewhere below 70 to somewhere above 120 microseconds depending on what tape formula has been and will come in existence.

If We incorporate the digital thingy-
Could it be just a build in A/D converter with maybe build in (after conversion) HD station with seperate display controlled 2x32 band Equalizer, Pan., Comp., Exp., Reverb, Delay, A-B-C Loops, Key and Tempo independent adjustment, Metronome and Chromatic tuner.

That way we also welcome musicians practising.

Then we have to build in two head phone amps. On high quality analog for tape listeners and one in the digital section.

Maybe this A/D converter could be ad-on seperate extra equipment.
In this digital option could go build in CD rec/play, MD rec/play, DCC rec/play, DAT rec/play (and maybe some of the newer formats on DVD/CD as long they work in stereo).

That covers almost all attempts of digital formats introduced for the common music listener and makes the add on unit very versatile.

Why integrate it?
Maybe I misunderstand the purpose of the digital idea here.
Please explain to me if so.

This gives me the idea of splitting up running gear and amp gear in the analog device.
Make a high quality dub function in the amp section and make transports as ad-on and produce both cassette and Reel-to-Reel transports.

Now all put together will give anybody an option to play, record or copy in between almost all formats.

The only formats we left out here is the EL-Cassette, the 8-track, the RCA-Cassette, the micro-cassette.
Are they worth any considerations?

Modular build units inside.
Modular connected units.

Remember Sentec made modular amps where RIAA, Headphone amp, Record loops (I think) etc. was ad-ons and the cabinet was also going into each other so no matter what ad-ons you chose, it ended up looking like one unit?

If I want to build it?
Hmmmmmmmmmm......................
I don't have the skills myself.
I'm open for joint ventures but..................will it be profitable?

"dolph"

[braxus]

My thoughts would be to hire the head technicians responsible for building the Naks, Aiwas, Sony ES models, Tandberg, Luxman, and Revox that were made during their prime year models. Then share the tech and collaborate ideas they put into their best decks and incorporate it into 1 new deck. Im sure they could still be hired today out of retirement to do 1 such job. That or find someone who has very good knowledge of those old decks.

[bluegreengold]

I would like variable bias frequency as well as current.

[thidaho]

After owning a reversible TASCAM (entry level 112R) that has operated flawlessly for years, I would not own a non-reversible deck. That is where my R & D would focus. That is what would make it competitive with CD's.

I think if you could not make a superb, reliable reversible head sytem, you do not belong in the business. I occassionally put a little tetralube in the TASCAM's tranny and if it ever fails, I will be looking for another. Best Regards, Chuck