Tandberg TD20A

[TheReeler]

To the owners of the 4 track model, how good or bad is it?

Does it really sound good even at 3.75 ips?. Which are the good features, where the machine is better than others?, transport? electronics?...

Thanks!.

[utahusker]

To the owners of the 4 track model, how good or bad is it?

Does it really sound good even at 3.75 ips?. Which are the good features, where the machine is better than others?, transport? electronics?...

Thanks!.
I own one and love it. I haven't recorded anything at 3.75ips, so I'm no help there. Also I have no other recorders to compare it to, so no help there either. It sounds just as good, or maybe somewhat better than my VPI Scout source with absolutely no tape noise.
One thing I like is that it's so simple to thread the tape. As far as the transport and electronics, I couldn't help you out there.
To summarize, I haven't answered any of your questions, sorry.*hypnot*

[TheReeler]

Hehe, don't worry. I asked because I've just won one in an auction. Hope this story end happy, because the last two decks that I won, finally didn't bought them because sellers didn't want to pack the deck following my exact instructions.

I've just sent the seller an email telling him about the freight issue.

Let's see if it finally good or not. Now the problem is that I haven't more free space for another deck, so...

- I service it completly and sell it
- I sell the Grundig TS-1000, the Pioneer RT-707 or the Pioneer RT-1020H

;-((

[utahusker]

I won another one last month and it was doa. It was bought more for parts anyway, but the wind motor is bad and the rewind motor spindle is bent, so I definitely over paid for this parts unit. It was sold by one, if not the largest "Classic" audio stores in the US. They stated they couldn't check it due to no power cable, even though it takes a regular power cable.

[TheReeler]

Can I ask how much did you paid for that not working unit?. And how much for a working unit?.

Thanks.

[utahusker]

Can I ask how much did you paid for that not working unit?. And how much for a working unit?.

Thanks.
I paid $260 for the doa unit*eyepop*, and I paid $450 for the good one plus I paid a guy in New York $150 to replace all the out of spec. electronics, so I guess I paid $600 plus shipping for a turn key deck.
I'd pay that again for a deck that sounds as good as this one.*reelspin*

[TheReeler]

Thanks. I paid 189.88 euros + shipping for mine. It's supossed to be a perfect working unit, but I'm talking with the seller to buy more things, because he sells me the original Tandberg 10" metal reel for 10 euros and the original Tanberg NAB hub adapters for 30 euros.

What do you think? May I buy the adapters and the reel for that prices?...

[Scorpion8]

Now the problem is that I haven't more free space for another deck, so...

.... so it's time to tell the kids you're selling them off for medical experiments (Monty Python, The Meaning of Life) to make room for more gear! :D

[utahusker]

Thanks. I paid 189.88 euros + shipping for mine. It's supossed to be a perfect working unit, but I'm talking with the seller to buy more things, because he sells me the original Tandberg 10" metal reel for 10 euros and the original Tanberg NAB hub adapters for 30 euros.

What do you think? May I buy the adapters and the reel for that prices?...
Personally, I wouldn't worry about the Tandberg NAB adapters. I have a pair and they're not near as good as my TEAC models. They're just clip-on's.
The reel is a great deal though.

[TheReeler]

Well, I don't know really what to do. 30 euros for a pair isn't too much and it's a collectable item, the same that the empty Tandberg reel.

This noon I'll write the seller again with the final purchase decision.

Thanks.

[ghn5ue]

I won another one last month and it was doa. It was bought more for parts anyway, but the wind motor is bad and the rewind motor spindle is bent, so I definitely over paid for this parts unit. It was sold by one, if not the largest "Classic" audio stores in the US. They stated they couldn't check it due to no power cable, even though it takes a regular power cable.

If you are considering selling parts, I could really use a good reel table!

[utahusker]

Reeler, have you received this yet? If so, what's the verdict?

[TheReeler]

Not yet, the parcel was delivered on 26-sep *fit*

[TheReeler]

Received today. The package is the biggest I've ever received... the box didn't fit inside my small car *eyepop*

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tb1.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td2.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td3.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td4.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td5.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td6.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td7.jpg

Well packed, not nice-looking, but at least the sender made double-box as I asked.

I've plugged it and it works *Hi5*

[close652]

Cool cat - any pic of the deck?

[TheReeler]

Didn't shot any when I readed your message, but have just taken some:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td20a_1.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td20a_2.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td20a_3.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td20a_4.jpg

I'm without more free space, so I've put it in the place where were the vinyl player and the CD/DVD player...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/td20a_5.jpg

It's very cool the sound that makes the Tandberg's pinch roller when PLAY is depressed, it's similar to the sound that makes a video recorder when you hit PLAY *eyepop*

I'm listening to the tape that I bought with the deck, a Basf LPR35 in a Tandberg reel *reelspin*


PS: I realized that maybe the pics are too big and can be annoying, or maybe you'd prefer to watch them in the post, so as I'm not sure, I posted them as links.

[niklasthedolphin]

Congratulation with your new deck TheReeler.

I hope you two will live happy ever after.

*Hi5*

"dolph"

[close652]

It looks so cool that I'm happy to see the pictures in any form. :)
How does the cat like the spinning reels? *reelspin**reelspin*
Most of them love to touch them.

[niklasthedolphin]

Be aware that cat's fur can destroy any tape machines motors and bearings.

Keep machines and cats apart.
Just an advice.

"dolph"

[TheReeler]

Just taken another shot with a general view of my second system with the new toy:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/equip_ord.jpg


About cats... I've three and no problems with that, because in the living room the four decks are in a rack that is elevated, so they can't touch the decks. And in the second system, the one in the pic, they hardly stay over the table, bu sometimes stay there with, but don't touch the decks neither.

[utahusker]

You're going to love it. It looks to be in great shape.
I was lucky to have mine shipped in the original packing and box, then double boxed.

[TheReeler]

I've just shot a video showing the deck in movement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23zuSPOY0jM

*reelspin**reelspin*

[TheReeler]

Just finished oiling the capstan motor because it was noisy at high speed.

And where is and how does the capstan motor look and work?.
Here is the 4th motor working:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwQIKYX-3Ho

[utahusker]

Great job, I love your videos.

[TheReeler]

Great job, I love your videos.
Thank you very much... I thought that the one that enjoy was myself!! *Hi5*

I've just tested the record function and I was shocked because you don't need to press RECORD and PLAY buttons, you only need to play RECORD and the deck goes *eyepop*

[TheReeler]

After some hours of playing different tapes, now I'm sure. The VUMeters of my unit reads always less than others. Can this be caused by a calibration for a hot tape or something similar?...

[TheReeler]

I've discovered something that can't really understand and I'm sure other owners can help.

During PLAY, the right motor doesn't turn to make back tension. It appears thta some brake is applied, but no movement. But the same occurs during FF and RWD, the supply motor never turn.

After looking for the back tension adjustement in the SM, I can't find any reference, so I'm assume that this is the correct manner or work.

If you press PLAY, RWD of FF, does the supply reel table turn???? (with a small piece of tape threaded, but without the reel)

[TheReeler]

utahusker, can you please test how works the back tension on your unit?.

Thanks.

[utahusker]

utahusker, can you please test how works the back tension on your unit?.

Thanks.
Mine works the same way you describe. When you hold play or wind, the right motor is the only one that rotates. The left reel moves very slightly clockwise when play is held indicating a brake is being applied.

[TheReeler]

Thanks for the answer.

[TheReeler]

Yesterday I spent all the afternoon with the Tandberg trying to fix the values of VUMeter readings and now they really rock!.

But, after hours pass with this deck, I notice that it has several things that I really hate, beginning with the innexistent back tension. It has a brake that is regulated by the position of the left tension arm, but a brake isn't the same than a real back tension, so with some tapes, the tape-to-head contact is really bad.

I can't understand why this deck is so reputated. Yesterday I damaged the calbration tape when I press STOP while the tape was rewinding. This deck HASN'T got an electrical brake before engage the mechanical brake, so if you are using a narrow tape, you'll stretch it if the most part of the tape is in the left reel, because the left reel brakes lately than the right reel, so as the brakes are actioned mechanically to the max value.... *flame**hypnot*

This is the first time that this happens. Maybe I'll try to adjust the brakes, but after reading the SM, it's much difficult than in other decks, so don't know if I will finally do it or not.

[utahusker]

Mine has none of the problems you mention in your post. I think their reputation is more for the sound they reproduce than their mechanics.

When I watched your video, everything looked like it was operating correctly. I wish you well with the Tandberg. It's a wonderful machine when it's serviced and running properly.

[TheReeler]

How work now the VUmeters... here is a video playing back a tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWI63qUKqd8

*reelspin**reelspin*

[ghn5ue]

Glad you got your meter issues figured out. The braking on my TD20A is very gentle, more gentle than most other decks I own. I set them up with spring scales according to the procedure in the service manual. One other thing I should mention is, I see in your video that you are threading the tape under the big post to the left of the head stack. The tape should actually go over this post, and this will improve the head contact, as well as add a little hold back tension.

[TheReeler]

Glad you got your meter issues figured out. The braking on my TD20A is very gentle, more gentle than most other decks I own.

My case is the opposite. The deck doesn't seem to have electrical brake, and after reading the SM about how to calibrate, it only talks about mechanical brake, not any electrical brake.



One other thing I should mention is, I see in your video that you are threading the tape under the big post to the left of the head stack. The tape should actually go over this post, and this will improve the head contact, as well as add a little hold back tension.
I don't understand exactly. I thread the tape always as shown in this pic:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandbergrealthread.jpg

All the videos shown that tape path and according to the manual, is the correct:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandberg_manual_thread.jpg

Or maybe I'm not understanding anything here... *eyepop*

[utahusker]

You're doing it right.

[ghn5ue]

Sorry! I thought it looked like the tape was running under the post in the video. The braking and hold back tension is mechanical, but the amount of tension applied during braking is adjustable. If yours is stretching tape, it must be set a bit too high.

[TheReeler]

Don't worry. I haven't a gauge like the needed to make a good asjustement... where can I buy one for a good price?.

Yesterday I found good pics of a cover for the Tandberg:


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandbergcover1.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandbergcover2.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandbergcover3.jpg


They are from an auction that is now here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150302949827&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us).

[niklasthedolphin]

Don't worry. I haven't a gauge like the needed to make a good asjustement... where can I buy one for a good price?.

Yesterday I found good pics of a cover for the Tandberg:


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandbergcover1.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandbergcover2.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/tandbergcover3.jpg


They are from an auction that is now here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150302949827&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us).

I saw these before.
They look cool
Somehow they remind me of Mickey Mouse.

*Spin*

"dolph"

[utahusker]

They're too cool not to bid on one. If I win, the shipping will probably spank me.*hope*

[ghn5ue]

Don't worry. I haven't a gauge like the needed to make a good asjustement... where can I buy one for a good price?.

].

I just used an inexpensive spring scale. Tourque should be the same whether measured by sideways force (like the guage Tandberg uses) or by pulling. The important part is to make sure you are measuring at the same distance from the center of the reel. What I did was spool some old tape onto a reel until the end of the tape pack was 80mm from the center, then I spliced some leader onto the end of the tape , to that I attached the spring scale.

[TheReeler]

Do you have any pics that are self-explained?...

[TheReeler]

Today I re-opened again the deck because there was a noise that was killing me. It happened after some minutes of operating, something inside sounded like "clac-clac-clac-clac", a mechanical noise even with the deck in stop mode.

The last time I opened it, when adjusted the meters, I greased some contact points of the capstan mechanism: the outer bearing of the motor and the inner part of the fly wheel. But as I said, after sometime playing... "clac-clac-clac-clac".

Is not a loud noise, but I'm seated about half meter in front of the deck and most times with music at low levels, so any mechanical noise is really audible.

Then today I opened it up and greased the fly wheel a bit more, dissambling the head set so that I can move the fly wheel and put some grease in the axis so that when I'd put it again in their original position, the grease entered inside the hole.

I'll see if this fix finally worked or not. I listened a complete tape and the noise was hardly audible, just the capstan motor turning... *hope*

[TheReeler]

They're too cool not to bid on one. If I win, the shipping will probably spank me.*hope*
Was you the winner? *hope*

[utahusker]

Was you the winner? *hope*
No, they gave a second chance, but I passed. I can live without it.

[TheReeler]

A second chance?... then is supposed that the winner didn't paid? *eyepop*

Final price: EUR 31.50 i didn't bid because I tought you were bidding for it, but I'll try to ask the seller for the cover. Who knows... maybe he has more than one. I can live without it too, but 31.50... *fit*

EDITED: He already have one for sale... will watch the auction.

[TheReeler]

I understand what's happening *flame**flame**flame**flame*

The title of the auction is: "TANDBERG TD-20A 10X AUFKLEBER auf Abdeckhaube"

Which is translated as: "TANDBERG TD-20A 10X STICKER on dust cover"

I assumed that he was selling the dustcover WITH the sticker... and no, inside he says:

"Sie kaufen nur AUFKLEBER mit Montageorakal (ohne Abdeckhaube)."

"They buy only STICKERS with "Montageorakal" (without dust cover)."

I hate when this class of missunderstanding occur.

[TheReeler]

Another question that I'm asking to myself... to modify or not to modify this deck.

What kind of mod?... just cosmetically, the same mod that I did to my Grundig TS-1000 sometime before: to change the leds for other with different colors.

The Grundig TS-1000 has, the same as the Tandberg TD 20A, leds for any of the transport modes: Record, RWD, FF, Pause, Play and Stop. Originally they all were RED, and after thinking about it, I preferred to changen them and this was the final result:

PLAY:
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/ts1000verde.jpg

PAUSE:
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/ts1000naranja.jpg

FWD and RWD:
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/thereeler/ts1000azul.jpg

The RECORD light is red and the STOP is blinking yellow as shown in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lrQK9yTNpI


Well, I'm thinking in doing exactly the same in the Tandberg, to substitute all the red leds for the same coded colors as I already did in the Grundig.

The only different thing here, is the size of the leds, 5 mm. in the Grundig and I think the Tandberg uses 2 mm. or maybe 3 mm. wide (have to measure them).

Well, I'd like to read your thoughts about this...

[utahusker]

Reeler, what do you think of the sound of the Tandberg compared to your other decks?

[TheReeler]

I haven't any conclusion... I threaded the tape thru the Pioneer RT-1020H and the Teac X-2000R, starting from the Tandberg and was switching between them. All sound good to me *Hi5* but I had to do some things to get that sound: cleaning the tape path lot of times even when the cottom swabs were clean and demagtenized it. Now it sounds good to me.

To make a good test I had to plug the deck to my main stereo system and never did it, all my decks here in this room were always connected to this little system.

And what do you think about the mod?... *reelspin*

[TheReeler]

I forgot to say that yesterday I shot a 4 minutes video that was, in original size... a 700 MB video in HD, but here can be shown without the need to download that size, hehe:

Tandberg TD 20A with ReVox black metal NAB hub adapters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4b5pux0CMw

And as take up reel, a metal Scotch that looks identical to the new ATR reels.

The video can be watched in high quality mode if you're logged in YouTube *reelspin*

[utahusker]

Love the video. *reelspin* As far as the mods go, I usually don't mod unless it gives some sonic improvement.

[dreekeNL]

Hi,


I own a few Tandberg TD20A decks. I once bought one second hand which was on a Dutch advertising website.
Since Holland is not really that big, I got into my car an drove about 60 km to take a look at this TD20A.

The seller was a guy of about age 20 (same as me), listening to gabber/hardcore music. He had found this machine at the attic along with some tapes and used to record hardcore music from the radio.

He gave me a short demonstration, but only only the left channel worked. he said he thought it was from his bad cables and he showed me some cables put along with cellotape.

I gave him the asking price (75 Euro's) and went home with the TD20A, a box full of 7inch tapes and one 10inch tape and an empty reel.

The 7 inch tapes apparantly belonged to the previous owner of the deck, the guy's father or grandfather, and were full of jazz and pop music from the 70's.
They were recorded at 3,75ips but sounded very good!
Also a few tapes had been used to record hardcore music, and they were only recorded on the left channel.

When I tested the deck it played at both channels, but did only record on the left channel.
Not knowing how to repair this, the deck wasn't any use for me, so I sold it an I kept the tapes for my own collection.
The new owner contacted me later en said the problem was fixed very easily, the tape/source handle was dirty.

Still having the tapes and knowing how great this deck must have sounded when it was working, I went looking for another one on the internet.

Each time a TD20A would show up in the Netherlands I drove to it and bought it. I now have about 5 or 6 of these TD20A's. They are all put away in my closet somewhere behind all sorts of other stuff and junk. It's a shame, I know. *footmouth*
The machine's conditions vary from working quite well to totally not working.

The last one I bought, I think that would've been in 2004, was just 20 kilometers away.
It was in excellent condition and had always been used to record background music and speech when watching slide shows.
For that reason a wireless IR remote control was also included. So was a very nice dustcover, the owner's manual, an emtpy Tandberg reel and four Maxell XLI tapes.

I use this deck almost daily now and have recorderd an played lots of tapes with it.
I took the lower from one of my TD20A's that looked the worst and gave it to someone who had painted it black and put all text on it in white.
So it now looks like a TD20A SE, only it's just a normal speed 4 track version.




As for the typical things you have with your TD20A, these sound very familiar to me.
My machine, ALL my TD20A's, ar very critical with tape usage.
If you use tape that has the slightest wear or damage, it will give you loads of dropouts on the TD20A.
By the way, my Teac A-7300 tapedeck has exactly the same problem.
The best tape to use on the TD20A machine is Maxell UDXL or it's follower XLI.

The service manual of the TD20A reads that it has been aligned for Maxell UDXL when it was new.
This also explains your VU meters showing you far too less dB when you compare it to your other machines.

Since the Maxell UDXL can record a max. of +6dB, the VU level for +6dB on the TD20A is set to 0dB.
0 dB on your other decks will give you -6dB on your TD20A.
So this is normal, but you can easily adjust it if you have a proper 0dB tape.
Since the VU meters can only display +3dB max I prefer the +6dB = 0 setting.

You should also check if the most left tape guide (don't know how to name this in English) can move gently. Otherwise you should clean the inner parts of it so it moves better.
This way you will have better backtension and also better head/tape contact.

[niklasthedolphin]

I think the idea of modifying the LED Colours is brilliant.

"dolph"

[Nakdoc]

I've set these up, and the 3 3/4 response is excellent. The Revox B77 is the only deck that comes close to the Tandberg. I think the TD20's strength is in record mode, while the Revox excells in playback. One key thing to listen for at low speed are low frequency bumps...and the Tandberg bass is very flat and of course natural sounding.

[Beechwoods]

Sorry guys... new on the forum and bringing a few threads back to life!

My TD-20A is definitely my best full-size deck playing back at 7½ ips. It has slightly more air and delicacy at the top, and slightly more weight at the bottom. I'm comparing it with my RT-707 Pioneer, and playing back commercially released reel to reels. At 3¾ ips though, my 707 has the edge. More definition at the top end. Both my machines have been professionally serviced and lined up in the last year, so should be working to spec.

Just out of interest, I've experienced the same problem with back-tension on my TD-20A as was described by Reeler earlier in this thread. It caused a tape of mine to slip and wrap around the centre spindle inside the plastic reel. I hit Stop sharpish and manually released it, with no lasting damage, but it did worry me, and if I'm going from Fast Wind to Stop now, i'll be using a finger to brake the left hand reel... *yikes*

[TheReeler]

I think the mechanical part of this deck isn't as good as it was supposed to be.

[utahusker]

Mine's going through a complete rebuild right now, can't wait to get it back.

[TheReeler]

What was the problem with it?.

[utahusker]

I was getting some cross talk and I thought since I had to send it to New York, I'd have my heads lapped, caps replaced, etc. from an ex Tanberg tech. He has most of the original nos parts.

Now I'll know it's up to spec. with no guessing.

[dreekeNL]

I had some problems with the record head of my TD20A.
The left channel continuously recorded drop outs, especially with second hand / used tapes but sometimes also with brand new tapes.

I cleaned and checked the tape path several times but couldn't find anything wrong with it.
So as a test I took a record head from one of my other TD20A/part decks and this solved the problem.

The head also has a lot of visual wear, but so does the replacement head, so that shouldn't make any difference.

[stellavox]

I've had and worked on a few of these - problems on machines I've seen are intermittent on/off and speed change switches - would get "stuck" in one position - need anywhere from a liberal application of contact cleaner in the back (if you can get to it) or removing and disassembling the switches.

Properly aligned, I've found these machines to make some of the nicest recordings I've ever heard

Charles

[RedGrant]

I was getting some cross talk and I thought since I had to send it to New York, I'd have my heads lapped, caps replaced, etc. from an ex Tanberg tech. He has most of the original nos parts.

Now I'll know it's up to spec. with no guessing.

Are you willing to share who that ex-Tandber tech is?

Does he have motors as well?

[tommygun]

I think the mechanical part of this deck isn't as good as it was supposed to be.

Mechanical part of Tandberg is much better, than Akai and Revox. There is no solenoids at all. 4 motors, all working smooth.
I have 2 track high speed version.

[Squank]

Yesterday I spent all the afternoon with the Tandberg trying to fix the values of VUMeter readings and now they really rock!.

Hi,
I seem to have the same experience with mine too!
What needs to be done to liven them up, if you don't mind me asking?
Regards

[tandberg]

I think I still might have a couple extra of these (Unused) Probably 440 as well, I guess they would fit other also, if you switch the scale.

[tandberg]

Yesterday I spent all the afternoon with the Tandberg trying to fix the values of VUMeter readings and now they really rock!
I think I still might have a couple extra of these (Unused) Probably 440 as well, I guess they would fit other also, if you switch the scale.