Portable DAT-recorders

[papagheno]

Hello, my first post, I don't know if this is allowed or if it's frowned upon here but I have a question regarding two different DAT-recorders. I'm gonna buy one and need some opinions. Main use will be field recording ambient sounds and interviews. I found two used recorders for sale locally.

The first model is a Sony TCD-D7, and the second one is a Tascam DA-P1.

So from what I gather from the interwebs both models have some pros and some cons

pro sony:
Small size, Light weight
Runs on standard batteries
Has optical digital out

cons sony:
Questionable mic preamp
No XLR contacts, only 3.5mm stereo (limiting the available mics, no phantom power)
Questionabel ruggedness
quality and longetivity of tape head assembly has been critized

Pros Tascam:
Decent preamps
XLR contacts with phantom power
Seems very rugged

Cons Tascam:
Large size, heavier
Custom batteries
Weak battery capacity

The sony unit comes with a sony stereo mic and a set of binaurals from core sound, just to make it harder for me to decide.

Which one would you choose? And why? One thing that's worrying me is how long the tape heads are gonna last, which brand made the better ones? Does anybody here have experience of either one?

All input is welcome!

[Skywavebe]

Hello Papagheno;

I would buy neither of those units as you will fnd that service and parts are going to be a problem. DAT decks were stopped back in 1997 according to data from Sony. The format uses a very high precision helical scan tape drive- the smaller a mechanism is the easier it is to fail.
That is why mastering on 1" video is much more robust than that of 8mm video wise.
While in the near future Sony may work on the the unit for you for a flat rate, any long term solution is going to be a bad scene. Plus if you look at their flat rate they are discouraging you to get these fixed.

There are solid state units out there that do pretty much the same thing recording wise and are not prone to all the mechanical issues associated with a DAT tape path. Coming from a service person and I usually do not recommend against tape, but Richard Hess made the truth to me known when he told me to forget the 30 and 40 year old open reel tapes to be transferred and get to the DAT right away!

[papagheno]

Hello Papagheno;

I would buy neither of those units as you will fnd that service and parts are going to be a problem. DAT decks were stopped back in 1997 according to data from Sony. The format uses a very high precision helical scan tape drive- the smaller a mechanism is the easier it is to fail.
That is why mastering on 1" video is much more robust than that of 8mm video wise.
While in the near future Sony may work on the the unit for you for a flat rate, any long term solution is going to be a bad scene. Plus if you look at their flat rate they are discouraging you to get these fixed.

There are solid state units out there that do pretty much the same thing recording wise and are not prone to all the mechanical issues associated with a DAT tape path. Coming from a service person and I usually do not recommend against tape, but Richard Hess made the truth to me known when he told me to forget the 30 and 40 year old open reel tapes to be transferred and get to the DAT right away!

I appreciate your answer. But, (always a but, huh?), a solid state recorder will set me back five times the sum for any of the dats, and this unit will be used in a no-budget photo-project. I just expect to get a year or two service out of the thing. With that in mind, would you still save up for a solid state recorder?

[R.Daneel]

In the two year period you would use it, you could have 5 recorders failing on you. I think a good quality solid-state recorder would still be a better choice - something like a used Sony PCM-D50 would surely do an outstanding job. However, if you can really find a great condition DAT machine (possibly serviced and maintained) then you might get that since it would cost you less. I generally avoid DAT because of the issues Sam mentioned.

[Skywavebe]

Hi Papagheno,
You may get a DAT machine at a really good price but then how long did you expect it to last? Most people that sell things of this nature are doing it to get rid of the product and many times they have been told that it will cost a lot to resolve problems that they know are there- things like increased error rates due to lack of head penetration or tape path issues due to a dirty Pinch Roller and capstan shaft. Sony wanted about $600 for the unit that I called them about flat rate. For less than that you can get the PMD units from Marantz with a small memory card and set the quality level you want. less quality means more time. I worked with these at Moody radio and they seem to be adapting them in where MD and CD do not work for the application. News and Production is where they are used.
It doesn't make any difference what you buy to me as I don't have any say in it but from a Technical point of view and others may differ, I am just answering the question you put forth. I have DAT machines here at my house only because others have thrown them out due to the aggravation they caused. I might fix them or maybe not- these are rack mounted units. Like Richard Hess told me- and he knows his tape, to get away from DAT as soon as was possible. In case you don't know the name, Richard Hess is involved in recovering recordings off difficult to do type tape devices such as blown up Space Shuttles and other similar type of items. I have a tendency to listen to what he says.

[shadowlord]

think of what if your used DAT fails during your project?

could you handle a few days/weeks delays until your find another unit?

you probably can save yourself some time/hassle by using a more reliable device right from the start.

[papagheno]

Thanks for the replies folks. I appreciate it.

[Nick Sunn]

Papa, you should go check out
http://www.taperssection.com/

At taperssection you can find out everything you need to know on the Sony PCM-D50 and the Sony PCM-M10

You don't want to go backwards and obtain a DAT! Given the age of the machine and its condition, not to mention the used DAT tapes that you'd be required to use, it is a bad move.
It would be just about as bad as purchasing an old Chevrolet Corvair or an old Chevrolet Vega , no matter how pristine, perfect shape, and then attempting to rely on such a vehicle for everyday transportation.


There are other fine Digital recorders which are good.
One thing you'll notice at taperssection is that they moved away from DAT many years ago. Browse and read thru current and ancient topic threads, and ask questions for the knowledgeable experts there, if you have any doubts. Those folks there generally do the highest quality amateur music sound field recording on the planet today. Nature sound field recording might require different mics but the capabilities of these top digital recorders should be more than adequate with their extremely low floor for noise and generally quiet pre-amps etc. That site is a good place to investigate/research today's current 'taping' equipment.