Finally getting in on a recording project that I can do my way, with decent stuff

[vinyldavid]

I will be doing some more recording at my school.

master recorder will be my Akai GX912 cassette deck. Mixing board will be a Mackie SR24 (we got ours switched out temporarily with a fully working one from the district).

Reading up on micing techniques....and taking into account that 2 mikes have to be where they are now, I have come up with these possibilities:


These are going to be for the main stage sound. There will be some special situations detailed at the end of this post. The rail that I can mount stuff on is about 40 feet long (maybe longer), and is about midway above a trapezoidal stage, where the performers will be under, most of the time.

Performers will be: multiple choirs, a symphonic orchestra, marching band, and a couple of A Capella groups. there will be up to 8 stage mics in use for the various performers that will be used for soloists and the A Capella groups. Those will be panned to their respective positions (or, at least, I’ll try to pan them) in the hall and how wide I want the singers to be.

I’ll be mixing this live, so It’s not like I’ll be able to experiment with this as the show goes on….it’s all live, but at least this time, I’ll have control over the mix during the show….

1) 2 Shure MX202 overhead cardioids on stage, with a Shotgun mic in between them, aimed down at the stage. Cardoids are about 10 feet apart (30 foot wide stage) and have a 185 degree polar response.

2) 2 overhead on stage, as above (those have to be where they are), with one recording mic mic between them, 2 SM58's on the extreme ends, pointed out, to capture room sound

3) 2 overheads, one recording mic between them, Shotgun above and behind the stage (yes, I can get a mic there) pointed at the stage.

4) 3 overheads, 2 omnis on the ends of the line

5) Spaced omnis. About 10 feet between them

6) Spaced Omnis again, just this time with an overhead between them. Or a SM58. In effect, a ginormous skewed Decca Tree. Something like 30 wide x 20 deep.

Those are the major combos that I can think of.

Parts available for placement almost anywhere:
Rode NTG-1 Shotgun mic
2x AudioTechnica recording mics (omnis)
6x Shure SM58’s (maybe more)
Shure 588 (old Shure Cardoid, one of the ones I used to record dulcimerlex’s dulcimer)
1 Shure Microflex MX202
2 of the above hanging on stage, general position not changeable

Specialty stuff:

4x Shure SM58’s will be used.

Or possibly a recording mic, too.

One pair of SM58’s will be aimed in XY configuration on an area that a small jazz and will be performing in, which is a corner of the theater that is not conducive to main stage mic pickup. This will be playing some solo stuff, and providing backing tracks to most of the choirs that need it.

One pair of SM58’s will be positioned over the aisles, because the percussion section spills out into the audience (goes up the aisles), and I would think that getting a mic on both of the aisles would be a great thing. Does not have to happen though. I just think that it would be a cool thing to mic.


I mentioned the Shotgun mic behind the stage because some of the softer instruments get blotted out (they are on stage) while the percussion section is out front with the horns…I could point the Shotgun at the back of the stage.

If it was possible, I could also aim it to the back of the theater and capture some of that sound, too, behind stage. That’s if there are no people back there to make noise…

If there’s a Piano at the other side of the theater from the small jazz band, I could also aim it at that. That’s the most likely place for it, if I use it at all….

[Des-Lab]

That sounds like quite a job and a hell of a setup. Kudos to you for landing that assignment. However, you sure that a cassette will be able to handle that? You going to mix all of that down to just two channels? You might want to consider bringing out the 3340 for both the higher speed and the 4 tracks, which can of course be further mixed down to two if needed.

[vinyldavid]

That sounds like quite a job and a hell of a setup. Kudos to you for landing that assignment. However, you sure that a cassette will be able to handle that? You going to mix all of that down to just two channels? You might want to consider bringing out the 3340 for both the higher speed and the 4 tracks, which can of course be further mixed down to two if needed.

I've been given free reign to handle it.

they currently record mono to Mp3, using mics suspended between the speakers.

There's just no time for them to set up a good recording setup.

I will talk with them about the 3340....it's already been up there once, and I don't think that they liked it too much then....now......I don't think so...unless I could get a remote for it before tuesday. And some long ass heavily shielded interconnectes. Space is a HUGE issue here. Or lack thereof.

if I did, I'd use your franken-Scotch to record on it.

I would prefer to record 3 or 4track to this at 15ips, and then mixdown at home, but that's NOT in the cards.

I could also possibly use a Tascam 162 to record double speed on cassette.

There's a dormant 3300, but I dunno if that works, or if I could use it.

If I could find DAT tapes locally, I might be able to appropriate a Tascam DA30 DAT deck, but I prefer analog. *reelspin*

Also, I didn't 'land' it per se.....it's more like I asked and described some of my ideas and was told "yeah.....do whatever"....I have never been told that by anyone in ym theater....always strings attached.

[Des-Lab]

FrankenScotch

:-oo

If that mix if going to be watered down to MP3, it doesn't DESERVE such a fine tape. Save it for yourself.

I'm kind of surprised that in light of all that equipment and the forest of mikes they'd object to squeezing in a R2R deck. I mean seriously. If they are taking that kind of care to make that kind of elaborate setup with all that equipment, why not try and get the best possible recording they could?

[vinyldavid]

FrankenScotch

:-oo

If that mix if going to be watered down to MP3, it doesn't DESERVE such a fine tape. Save it for yourself.

I'm kind of surprised that in light of all that equipment and the forest of mikes they'd object to squeezing in a R2R deck. I mean seriously. If they are taking that kind of care to make that kind of elaborate setup with all that equipment, why not try and get the best possible recording they could?

And it's NOT gonna get watered down to Mp3 by ME. Never. THEY record to Mp3 into a computer. Which has grounding problems in the sound card. It's a mac so it's all built in, and they don't understand the USB recording interface that I managed to set up in about 10 minutes....my transfers will be 24/96 digital straight from tape.

There's some empty space that I could put it in, and I am up in the tech booth for about 4 hours tomorrow anyway....i'll re-arrange a nice space for a reel to reel deck...I'd prefer the 3300, as then I could give the music dept chair the recordings that I had made with a deck that was in his closet for 15+ years....

They also have a 3340, but they're NOT letting me touch that sucker....and I know that mine's got far less use, so I don't even worry about it, except as a possible source for parts down the road.

[vinyldavid]

FINALLY.


I got permission to set up my 3340 in the tech booth.

So I'll record 2 channel to either 15 or 7.5ips.....I don't know which I will do, yet.

I wish I had more tape. I only have a couple of sealed reels to work with.
10.5""
Sealed Maxell UDXL, from the late seventies (1)
Quantegy 457 (1)
4 sealed Scotch 111 acetates

7":
Dunno. I got a lot that I can tape over. I have 2 Ampex 456's and some other stuff....

I wish that I had known about this earlier so I could get some tape together.

[Des-Lab]

I can tell you right now. Whatever you do, do NOT use the acetate tape. It's old. Probably brittle. And likely chemically unstable. If you were to try and put a fresh live recording on it, it'll sound like mud. And woe be unto you if you try and record at 15 and the thing break at any point during the performance. Your career as a sound technician at the school will be effectively finished. Don't overlook those small details bro. You say those 111's are still sealed? I DARE you to crack one open. I would pay admission to see your nose grimace when that smell of vinegar hits it.

As for 7½ vs 15, that's entirely up to you. I think a lot of the weight behind that decision will rest on what they ultimately plan to do with the recordings. If they are going to end up as compressed to within an inch of their life WAV or MP3 files, save the tape. You won't need the higher fidelity. Just be sure to keep a close eye on the gain so that you don't go over. It's very easy to reach saturation level on a live recording.

OTOH if after your post production work, it ends up as a CD pressing, then you might want to consider the higher speed. Remember that at 7 ½ and above, it is no longer a logorithmic scale in terms of fidelity. Only an incremental one (that decreases with each increase in speed). 15 will NOT be twice as "good" as 7 ½ even though it's twice as fast.

If this is a one shot deal, use the FrankenScotch. Do your mixdown and then bulk it. One recording and maybe just one or two subsequent passes, and the tape will still be in essentially new condition for future [re]use. Just as long as you don't chop it up with edits. Or use it on a machine that wasn't cleaned and demagged beforehand.

Keep us posted.

[vinyldavid]

I can tell you right now. Whatever you do, do NOT use the acetate tape. It's old. Probably brittle. And likely chemically unstable. If you were to try and put a fresh live recording on it, it'll sound like mud. And woe be unto you if you try and record at 15 and the thing break at any point during the performance. Your career as a sound technician at the school will be effectively finished. Don't overlook those small details bro. You say those 111's are still sealed? I DARE you to crack one open. I would pay admission to see your nose grimace when that smell of vinegar hits it.

As for 7½ vs 15, that's entirely up to you. I think a lot of the weight behind that decision will rest on what they ultimately plan to do with the recordings. If they are going to end up as compressed to within an inch of their life WAV or MP3 files, save the tape. You won't need the higher fidelity. Just be sure to keep a close eye on the gain so that you don't go over. It's very easy to reach saturation level on a live recording.

OTOH if after your post production work, it ends up as a CD pressing, then you might want to consider the higher speed. Remember that at 7 ½ and above, it is no longer a logorithmic scale in terms of fidelity. Only an incremental one (that decreases with each increase in speed). 15 will NOT be twice as "good" as 7 ½ even though it's twice as fast.

If this is a one shot deal, use the FrankenScotch. Do your mixdown and then bulk it. One recording and maybe just one or two subsequent passes, and the tape will still be in essentially new condition for future [re]use. Just as long as you don't chop it up with edits. Or use it on a machine that wasn't cleaned and demagged beforehand.

Keep us posted.

First: LOL on the vinegar. By sealed, I mean, the tape pack is still factory-taped together, to prevent unwinding. There is no shrink wrap.

It will be a CD, mastered and edited in the digital domain by me. No compression, if I can help it. I did Pizzaz last year at 7.5, and that came out better than I expected. I'll only use a hard limiter this time, and very sparingly. MAYBE a couple DB compression.

My deck will be cleaned and demagged tomorrow, and then not touched excpt for a couple of test recordings at the practices that I'll do on the 456 to get a handle on the proper levels. I'll try to peak it at +3 or a little over that.

[vinyldavid]

Mic placement finalized.

Spaced omnis.

With the hanging mics mixed in.

And an XY pair of SM58's on the jazz band only when they are performing solo.


Just gotta mount the mics to the catwalk....and angle things.

I'll try to post pix.

[vinyldavid]

OK...so again plans have changed.

Gonna do this a whole different way.

I found out that they are only using some wireless mics for the PA, and that the rest of the mics are free for me to use however I wish.

Orchestras:
Hanging mics:
Violins/center/Cellos
Soloists with Orchestras:
1 SM58 per soloist

Straight Up:
On Stands, 2 SM58, modified XY config
1 SM58 for solos, in the middle, being piped to the house, prefer if they moved out to it for their solo instead of passing it back and forth….

Soloist:
One SM58 on stand, mix with room sound (from A/T’s), or possible 2 more mikes for stereo farther back

Jazz band:

UNKNOWN, prefer to put 2 SM57’s on booms, and get them as far away from the drums as possible. Also, could do it like I did before, and attach the mics to mic stands and lay them out vertical out over the catwalk


Straight Up:
2x SM58’s on stands, one to pass around


Piano+solo:
2 SM57 on Piano, one on bass strings, one on treble strings.
One on solo (dunno if the Piano+solo thing is possible, they're not wireless and I am not sure what I can get away with doing on stage. For the most part, I will have a couple of people to help me get the mics to their intended places).

Stationary Choirs (on risers):
2x Audio Technica mics, with possible hanging mi about 15-20’ below.
Or just the 2 AT’s, spaced, angled in, and mixed together. On catwalk.

Marching Band:
Omnis. They’ll be angled in sufficiently to capture the sound coming in from all around them, while focusing in on the center section, which is often the softest.

Show choirs that move around a lot, like Pizzazz:
The 3 hanging mics from orchestra

I will be using the Franken Scotch (Ampex 457 on a scotch reel, NOS), and 2x 7" reels of 456 all at 15ips. Teac A-3340S R2R used. Mixer: Mackie SR24.4, from mix busses 1 and 2.

Microphones:

Shure MX202 (3)
Shure SM58 (many)
Shure SM57 (up to 3)
AudioTechnica semi--omni condenser mikes, that's what I think they are (2)

That's it.

[vinyldavid]

Here's the mics that are currently in the theater.
A friend made this and I modded it a little.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/Diagram1.jpg

[Des-Lab]

So what's the latest?

[vinyldavid]

So what's the latest?

Well, its been done....


Stupid me plugged the rec cables into the output of the Teac and only caught it halfway through the concert.

The remaining stuff that got onto the 457 was fine.

However. In direct comparison between the digital file and the tape....

The tape lost. BADLY. *fit* Complete and utter smackdown. The digital file reproduced an entire level above the tape the spaciousness, soundstage, dynamics, and general FEEL of the concert.

The part that I recorded is really on side two of the tape, but there was some serious bleed on side one from the other side. Peaks were at about +5.

The main problem is that this deck sounds best with Scotch 150 and the like, and I was using a 457....so I am HOPING that that is the fault. SO yeah.....the recordings turned out OK, but I recorded them too hot into the computer and sometimes into the tape. So they clip. Sometimes HARD. I reduced the level as best I could, but the damage is done.

My mixing is excellent, and when I played a track for one of the performers, he almost wept. It was that good. :D

We shall see what becomes of the Teac as a master recorder. I really like it, and this turn of events disturbs me.

I also might get that 3330-2T workin and try to record with that at 7.5ips half track, and see if that works any better.

Once I find a way to post the files, I will....