Can HDCD be passed through TOSlink?

[4tified]

I got a Toshiba SD-5109 DVD player for Christmas. The sole purpose of this player is to decode my HDCD's. So my two questions are:

Will the DVD player push out 20-bit sound through the TOSlink connection? I know it will work with Bitstream.

Will a MZ-R707 minidisc recorder record the nuances from HDCD, even though it stores the sound in 16-bit or will I have to push it out via Analog?

Curious about your thoughts on this.

Thanks guys!

[vinyldavid]

Dunno on the output. But a MD recorder uses lossy compression, so I wouldn't count on it being able to record the nuances of ANYTHING, much less HDCD.

[R.Daneel]

The output of your DVD player will work with HDCD like with any other CD. HDCD is 20bit data compacted to 16bit to retain backwards compatibility. It is decoded during digital-to-analog conversion so the digital output sends undecoded HDCD signal which is 16bit. MD cannot decode HDCD however. HDCD discs are usually better mastered than others so the recording quality is probably better. All of the HDCDs I have are finely mastered so the results should be decent nonetheless.

I don't know for certain about your N707 however but I think it can accept 20bit signal through the optical input. If the DVD player isn't of particularly good quality, I recommend using the digital connection since the cheap DACs and analog stage in the DVD player would cancel out any benefit of higher resolution recording on your md recorder if you decide to record the analog way.

[shadowlord]

Will the DVD player push out 20-bit sound through the TOSlink connection? I know it will work with Bitstream.


Yes, the DVD player should output the un-altered digital signal. (which contains the HDCD information)
but the device receiving the digital signal needs HDCD decoding capability to fully utilize the HDCD signal.



Will a MZ-R707 minidisc recorder record the nuances from HDCD, even though it stores the sound in 16-bit or will I have to push it out via Analog?


I'm not 100% sure here but i can't think of an MD unit with HDCD capability.
So much likely the HDCD signal is lost when recorded onto MD.


You can use the analogue output of your DVD player though.
this is already the decoded signal.
Given your DVD Player was a very good unit a few years ago i asume the D/A converters should be of sufficient quality. But let your ears be the judge!

[4tified]

To all that have replied, thanks for the info!

I do know that the Minidisc will not receive the extra HDCD info natively via TOSlink, my primary question was whether it would benefit from the expanded freqencies since the newer minidisc recorders featured a 24-bit DAC, even though it can only store this information in 16-bit. If nothing else, since the DVD player decodes and presents the extended frequencies to the minidisc recorder, isn't it the recorders job to re-analyze that signal and recreate it's own version with the ATRAC encoder? The uncompressed 20-bit sound doesn't just disappear, does it?

I know Minidisc is lossy, but I must say, with the newest ATRAC alogorithms, I can't discriminate between source and recording at all.

The Toshiba SD-5109 was the top-tier DVD player when it came out, plus HDCD was the new big thing at the time, so I have no doubt that the audio section of this behemoth is at least bearable. One thing is for sure though, Toshiba never liked using aluminum chassis for it's high-end products. No component isolation either. Feature rich, yeah, but nowhere in the same territory as the cheapest Denon equivalent. Wish I never sold my Denon DVD-2600.

Sorry if this seems to be going in circles, I haven't had my caffiene today, lol.

[R.Daneel]

Hi! The answer is no. Once the signal is output from your DVD player in the 16bit form, it willl be recorded as such onto the MD media. The HDCD content will remain buried in the original stream and will not be decoded along the way nor will it be "visible" to your MD recorder.

If you feel like your Toshiba is a fine DVD and a CD player, then you can hiok it up the analog way and see what you get. Though I have no doubt the converters are fine in that DVD player, the results will be highkly dependent on the analog stage of the player.

Like I said, the recordings featuring HDCD are usually of a good standard even without the HDCD so you might not benefit much from it and would be better of with digital connection. But all of this is hypothetical and it would be best to try it out for yourself. But be sure to let us know how it goes!

[4tified]

Hi! The answer is no. Once the signal is output from your DVD player in the 16bit form, it willl be recorded as such onto the MD media. The HDCD content will remain buried in the original stream and will not be decoded along the way nor will it be "visible" to your MD recorder.

If you feel like your Toshiba is a fine DVD and a CD player, then you can hiok it up the analog way and see what you get. Though I have no doubt the converters are fine in that DVD player, the results will be highkly dependent on the analog stage of the player.

Like I said, the recordings featuring HDCD are usually of a good standard even without the HDCD so you might not benefit much from it and would be better of with digital connection. But all of this is hypothetical and it would be best to try it out for yourself. But be sure to let us know how it goes!

Ok, I'll give it a shot once I get home. Hopefully my ears can descriminate.

Thanks!

[R.Daneel]

Have you had the chance to hook it up?

[4tified]

Have you had the chance to hook it up?

I only had a chance to run the HDCD deck through my tape deck. It was a little hard for me to tell at first, but I definatley heard some dynamics that wasn't there any of my CD players, even with the dual DAC's. The sound was "spread out" further, a higher contrast between the highs and lows. I am hoping to try this again tonight with the minidisc using the analog output.

[4tified]

Well, tried the analog hookup to my MZ-N707 Minidisc recorder. The verdict? I honestly can't tell. I don't hear the difference. Granted, I'm also working with some cheap headphones, some Sony MDR-V150's. I'm barely able to descern between lossy and lossless with these.

For now, at least until I get some better headphones, I have no way of telling.

Going straight from HDCD through a receiver however, I can hear the extra depth, however minute it seems.

[R.Daneel]

Great stuff my friend! Don't worry, the important thing is you tried it. Now if you can't hear any difference or it is a subtle one, then better headphones will certainly help. Don't wanna go off-topic here. We can do another thread for portable headphones. Or non-portable headphones for that matter!