Best sounding pre-amp............

[RedGrant]

1. SS

2. Tube

I've learnt the importance of pre-amp when it comes to quality re-production of music.


Any recommendations? I am going upscale, I am tapped out for space. I cannot afford to buy good bargains anymore, no more space.

I'll settle for the best within my budget.

[speakerman1]

Carver makes some nice pre amps. If you want a tuner also the higher numbers have those with the pre. I made a believer out of jbeck. I like Hafler also. Nothing fancy but they sound good.

Tube you may try a Marantz 7 the Chinese are making copies of them. I always wanted to try one but never did. They use to be on ebay for a good price.

Larry

[Socal Sam]

The best sounding pre-amp is none at all. Unless you need phono or dubbing capabilities (which is a high probability here at TH), I play my sources directly through the amp without a pre and control volume with the amp's gain control. For amps without gain controls, I use variable output sources like my Sony CDP-XA7ES, Kenwood 600T tuner, or maybe my Nakamichi CR-7A.

[Fast Forward]

you might want to check out Yamaha,,,C-70,,C-80,,,great phono section ,dual amp Capable,,I believe the 80 has an Parametric EQ,,, JMTC

[LesX55]

Hi all,

I can recommend the Sony TA-E900 esprit......Fabulous

[390FE]

Proton made 2 excellent & 1 good preamp only units. (As a FYI Though they did also have like 2 or 3 preamp tuner combo units).

The 2 I would recomend would be the AP-1000 (Dual Mono design) & the 1100. And they BOTH have excellent phono inputs with selectable input capacitance.

The last one was the newer AP-2000 which IMHO is not as good as the previous ones I listed. Still a good preamp & it does add remote control, but looses some of the functions the previous 2 preamps had.

I have all 3 of these preamps (AP-1000, 1100 & AP-2000). The AP-1000 & 1100 are the best of the 3 with the AP-1000 being the top level.

There is a AP-1000 & a 1100 on E-Bay right now. The 1100 is currently a good price & comes with a Proton 420 tuner.

The AP-1000 that is on there now IMHO is priced way too high judging by the condition shown in the pics & described.

When I have recorded of an LP onto tape I dig out either the AP-1000, 1100 or the Proton D940 receiver (all due to their phono stages & switchable capacitance to match the phono cart used) to hook up my BIC 960 with Sure V15RS & connect one of my various tape decks. Another plus to these 2 Protons is they have Listen & Record functions switches so you can record one source & listen to another all at the same time if wanted or needed.


I recomend either the Proton AP-1000 or the Proton 1100

[perry]

Depends on what your budget is, and I/O requirements. Pre-amps tend to be fairly well discounted from original price, compared to say, amps or tuners, so some really nice non-mainstream ones can be had reasonably. I like the Yamaha C80 etc, also, but they're not exactly budget. Others not mentioned I like are the Nak CA-5 & 7, also can be $$, but the 5 I've seen go for under $300. My favorite is of course Mcintosh, I've currently the C33, but in the past had a C26 and C28. Bang for buck, the C26, just max bang..C33. Macs biggest shortcoming (besides price) is no MC phono amp, even on the dual phono units. The Yamaha's do, not sure on the Naks, OTTOMH.

[Socal Sam]

Depends on what your budget is, and I/O requirements. Pre-amps tend to be fairly well discounted from original price, compared to say, amps or tuners, so some really nice non-mainstream ones can be had reasonably. I like the Yamaha C80 etc, also, but they're not exactly budget. Others not mentioned I like are the Nak CA-5 & 7, also can be $$, but the 5 I've seen go for under $300. My favorite is of course Mcintosh, I've currently the C33, but in the past had a C26 and C28. Bang for buck, the C26, just max bang..C33. Macs biggest shortcoming (besides price) is no MC phono amp, even on the dual phono units. The Yamaha's do, not sure on the Naks, OTTOMH.

The CA-5 has MC phono and excellent build quality. I had one with my departed PA-7.

[DaveInVA]

I build my own tube pre-amps these days. As has been mentioned previously, for line-level anyways no pre-amp is better than one and all you need is some switching and a decent level control. The exceptions would be if you have problems with impedance matching or need extra gain for your particular setup. Or if you need a phono pre-amp of course. Even so, I like to use a separate phono pre from the line level anyways.
Even so, I was very happy with a Audio Research SP6B I used to own. They are built like a tank and there are several levels of mods that can be done to them to make them world class...

Dave

[RedGrant]

The best sounding pre-amp is none at all. Unless you need phono or dubbing capabilities (which is a high probability here at TH), I play my sources directly through the amp without a pre and control volume with the amp's gain control. For amps without gain controls, I use variable output sources like my Sony CDP-XA7ES, Kenwood 600T tuner, or maybe my Nakamichi CR-7A.

Sweet! I learn something new here. Since I settled on my Eumig as my TOTL cassette deck and have 7 of them no less and based on the owner's manual I finally managed to get recently, I don't even need pre-amp. Eumig has its own variable output to control volume.

I can save the money for pre-amp and use it instead for Luxman M-05 or Nikko Alpha 2000!


I am planning a separate system for my turntable. I am planning to use turntable strictly for mixing tapes, and not for listening on daily purpose. They're too finicky and too expensive for that.

[Socal Sam]

Sweet! I learn something new here. Since I settled on my Eumig as my TOTL cassette deck and have 7 of them no less and based on the owner's manual I finally managed to get recently, I don't even need pre-amp. Eumig has its own variable output to control volume.

I can save the money for pre-amp and use it instead for Luxman M-05 or Nikko Alpha 2000!


I am planning a separate system for my turntable. I am planning to use turntable strictly for mixing tapes, and not for listening on daily purpose. They're too finicky and too expensive for that.

For phono, DaveInVA has the right approach with a separate phono amp.

I've compared no-preamp to with-preamp and can hear the compression which was not objectionable but a definite distraction to ultimate sound quality. (Some preamps are very transparent but any lengthening of the signal path is no good and I never use tone controls.) If you want convenience especially with a remote controlled preamp, the compression trade off is acceptable.

[RedGrant]

For phono, DaveInVA has the right approach with a separate phono amp.


I concur.




I've compared no-preamp to with-preamp and can hear the compression which was not objectionable but a definite distraction to ultimate sound quality. (Some preamps are very transparent but any lengthening of the signal path is no good and I never use tone controls.)

I agree in general, but occasionally I meet badly recorded material, especially in LP, and for that I need tone control, but I think I can relegate that duty to turntable system, and do away with tone control altogether in my day to day system.







If you want convenience especially with a remote controlled preamp, the compression trade off is acceptable.


Well, maybe in my younger days, but nowdays I strictly listen to one source at a time, mostly my own mixed tapes so I really don't need a remote, except when I am channel hunting on my tuner.


So that gives me an idea, a separate system for my tuner.

[Socal Sam]

...I agree in general, but occasionally I meet badly recorded material, especially in LP, and for that I need tone control, but I think I can relegate that duty to turntable system, and do away with tone control altogether in my day to day system.

Yes, very true. Most "radio favorites" are poorly mixed to sound good on car radios. I have a sloppy receiver and JBL's for those.

Well, maybe in my younger days, but nowdays I strictly listen to one source at a time, mostly my own mixed tapes so I really don't need a remote, except when I am channel hunting on my tuner.


So that gives me an idea, a separate system for my tuner.

I use an RCA switch box. Can't get any simpler than that!

[390FE]

For all the traveling tapes I have recorded on I take the source (a CD player) & patch it directly into the tapedeck I am recording on. The only thing in the signal path is the patch cables which are only 3ft long.

Years ago for the longest time I had my Sony ES CD player connected direct to my Proton D1200 amp. But I had to use a Realistic mixing board (the best one they sold) (didn't have the $$$ for a preamp at the time) so I could also run my tapedeck that didn't have variable output.

[RedGrant]

For all the traveling tapes I have recorded on I take the source (a CD player) & patch it directly into the tapedeck I am recording on. The only thing in the signal path is the patch cables which are only 3ft long.



Hey, you just gave me an idea. What about using even shorter length cable and use it back panel to back panel, ATA, (Ass to Ass) style?

[braxus]

Any comments on the Sumo Athena or Athena II? Very similar in options like my Rotel, but a bit more upscale.

[vinyldavid]

Coming from using a mixer as a preamp (albeit a super nice Tascam M-50) for about a year, I picked up a Denon AVP-5000 for $25. Definitely something to look into. Has a direct mode and a video off mode so it bypasses everything but the volume control, has relay based switching, and 11 line inputs, 4 record outputs, and gold plated everything. Plus, 3 optical and 1 coax digital, and an optical record output too. Damn thing weighs as much as most vintage receivers (30lbs). 105db SNR spec, ruler flat, and it even has a remote.

So I would be looking into finding one of those, or another Denon preamp.

[Socal Sam]

Coming from using a mixer as a preamp (albeit a super nice Tascam M-50) for about a year, I picked up a Denon AVP-5000 for $25. Definitely something to look into. Has a direct mode and a video off mode so it bypasses everything but the volume control, has relay based switching, and 11 line inputs, 4 record outputs, and gold plated everything. Plus, 3 optical and 1 coax digital, and an optical record output too. Damn thing weighs as much as most vintage receivers (30lbs). 105db SNR spec, ruler flat, and it even has a remote.

So I would be looking into finding one of those, or another Denon preamp.

$25 for remote control and direct mode is great value. Relay op is a quality feature.

[vinyldavid]

$25 for remote control and direct mode is great value. Relay op is a quality feature.

Just performed an interesting (albeit unscientific) test:

Selected an unused, unshorted input (have not fully wired in much of anything) and cranked the volume up to max. 11:00 is stupid loud. There was almost no hiss coming through the speakers with my ears 4' away on the tweeter axis. Even then I had to be listening for it. Standard listening position is 8' away, pretty much silence there. The motorized volume control is much louder than the preamp at maximum. *eyepop*

Sorry about the thread hijack Brax, I've just become a big fan of these preamps, and definitely recommend an audition if you can. Dunno anything about the Sumos, other than a very good reputation.

[Socal Sam]

Just performed an interesting (albeit unscientific) test:

Selected an unused, unshorted input (have not fully wired in much of anything) and cranked the volume up to max. 11:00 is stupid loud. There was almost no hiss coming through the speakers with my ears 4' away on the tweeter axis. Even then I had to be listening for it. Standard listening position is 8' away, pretty much silence there. The motorized volume control is much louder than the preamp at maximum. *eyepop*

Sorry about the thread hijack Brax, I've just become a big fan of these preamps, and definitely recommend an audition if you can. Dunno anything about the Sumos, other than a very good reputation.

Volume remote control of vintage amps is the key, IMO. Better than sliced bread!*Hi5*

[390FE]

Hey, you just gave me an idea. What about using even shorter length cable and use it back panel to back panel, ATA, (Ass to Ass) style?

RedGrant,
The shorter the better provided it doesn't greatly hinder functionality & ease of use & you have the space. You could probably easily get a way with using a 1ft cable (maybe a custom 6 inch) & still stack them or set them side by side for ease of use. Though you will probably have a connection issue trying to use solid male to male adapters/couplers due to the position/hight of the jacks from the table or shelf plus the orentation of the L & R jacks from machine to machine. Plus the injury to the machines factor with a solid connection if one machine gets bumped or jarred.

I used the 3ft as that is what I had on hand for good high quality patch cables. Mind you they arn't brake the bank good. They are the RCA brand with braided shield & gold plated phono plugs.

[Socal Sam]

IMO, the ideal cabling setup would be monoblock amps located near the speakers with short wire runs. The amps would be driven by balanced cables which would allow for a longer run. Speaker wire carries far more current and so would be subject to greater loss than source signal, which because of the low voltage is less sensitive to cable length. IMO, this sound quality improvement falls into the nth degree category. If presentation and room decor is important, I doubt you would miss this improvement unless you knew there was a difference to be had.

[RedGrant]

IMO, the ideal cabling setup would be monoblock amps located near the speakers with short wire runs. The amps would be driven by balanced cables which would allow for a longer run. Speaker wire carries far more current and so would be subject to greater loss than source signal, which because of the low voltage is less sensitive to cable length. IMO, this sound quality improvement falls into the nth degree category. If presentation and room decor is important, I doubt you would miss this improvement unless you knew there was a difference to be had.

Hey, Sam, you just gave me another idea.