Tandberg Deck

[braxus]

I finally got my first REALLY Great deck today- a Tandberg 3014 which I've been eyeing for a while now. I made a deal and kept in contact with Goldear off AK for some time to buy one of his two decks and my buddy in the US did the transaction for it today. He was playing some tapes on it after he got the deck and he said it seems fine. All he now has to do is get his brother to bring it across the border for me to grab off him.

I'll post some pics when I get it. If anyone wonders this deck is known as the Dragon killer and some have said this perticular model (along with the 3014A) is THE best deck ever made period. So now I'll hear what all the fuss is about and start retaping a lot of my tapes on this new old deck. I was told the deck I got today had low hours, so I don't expect any servicing will be needed. And Goldear seems to be a pretty respectable guy. All the conversations I had with him indicate he is.

Anyway I am posting some pics of what this deck looks like, but these pics are not of the very deck I got today. Those will have to wait till I get the deck here.

[gamve]

Hey Brax,
Are you now saying the Aiwa is junk ......LOL. I hope the Tandburg works out as a good upgrade.I just got my cheapie Tandberg TCD310 MkII going. I've had it for 2-3 weeks but it came from pommyland without a power plug on it and I have been too busy playing with the Aiwa anyway.
The TCD310 is surprisingly good sounding so far and I have only tried it with pre recorded Dolby B tapes so far. Your 3014 should be stunning.
There is another 3014 going on ebay for $750.00 and its closer to AUS than USA mmmmmm just what I need another fuggin tapedeck LOL

[niklasthedolphin]

When it's in your hands, tell us your verdict.

"dolph"

[macster]

I know where one of these is, and it appears to be in good shape. It's mine if it's still there, I just have never felt like dealing with it.

M~

[braxus]

No the Aiwa 9000 is definately not junk. But its never been known as a deck to beat the Dragon either. It rivals it maybe, but doesn't beat it. When I get my rebuilt Aiwa back from being serviced (for the second time), I will compare these two decks. The Aiwa excells on both normal type 1 tapes and also the very good metal tapes. I suspect the Tandberg will up the anty.

My concern at the moment is if my stereo system is good enough to hear the differences the Tandberg may make over my other decks. I may have to wait to get better speakers and some Mac gear to know what the deck is all about.

[niklasthedolphin]

No the Aiwa 9000 is definately not junk. But its never been known as a deck to beat the Dragon either. It rivals it maybe, but doesn't beat it. When I get my rebuilt Aiwa back from being serviced (for the second time), I will compare these two decks. The Aiwa excells on both normal type 1 tapes and also the very good metal tapes. I suspect the Tandberg will up the anty.

My concern at the moment is if my stereo system is good enough to hear the differences the Tandberg may make over my other decks. I may have to wait to get better speakers and some Mac gear to know what the deck is all about.

Don't go for Mac if you want to be able to hear differenceses.
:-)

I had to deliver back the MA 6900 due to lack of sound quality.

"dolph"

[braxus]

What's wrong with Mac gear? :P

Anyway anyone wanting to read up on this deck, can read about its second version (the A version) here:

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/3014-cat.pdf

The above I think is in German.

And more:

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014-om.pdf

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014a-b.pdf

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014a-sm.pdf


I think the best notable tech info on this deck is its 18Hz to 24 Khz frequency response. My Aiwa 9000 comes close to that in the high end, but it beats it in the low end (Aiwa goes down to 13Hz).

[Scorpion8]

Great! I saw one of these locally but passed on it because of the cost of keeping them playing well. I hope you get LOTS of enjoyment out of that.

[itzmike]

I see you have good taste. I love my 3014A. Every thing built solid. No plastic buttons plus a great transport. But the sound is the reason I love it or should I say the lack of sound (coloration). When you learn to adjust your controls just right the recordings will be dead on. Use cables as good as the rest of your system (same). Always let your unit warm up as with all tandbergs. I thought about letting mine stay on all the time but if the capstan motor goes out I will have a very very tough time replacing it. I got mine off Audiogon 5 years ago and had a shop in Conn go over it. I dont ever use Dolby. Let me know how you like it. Mike

[niklasthedolphin]

What's wrong with Mac gear? :P

Anyway anyone wanting to read up on this deck, can read about its second version (the A version) here:

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/3014-cat.pdf

The above I think is in German.

And more:

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014-om.pdf

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014a-b.pdf

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014a-sm.pdf


I think the best notable tech info on this deck is its 18Hz to 24 Khz frequency response. My Aiwa 9000 comes close to that in the high end, but it beats it in the low end (Aiwa goes down to 13Hz).

Mac just dosn't serve any thruth.

You might as well buy an equalizer instead.
And serve Chokolate Mouse on the side.
*twocents*

By the way, forget spec & tech and use your ears when you do the verdict over you cassette decks.

"dolph"

[braxus]

Mac just dosn't serve any thruth.

You might as well buy an equalizer instead.
And serve Chokolate Mouse on the side.


I didn't realize Macs were not accurate, but maybe that is why people like their sound. Im currently running a Rotel Pre and amp (RB 1070 and RC 985). I've never heard anyone complain about Rotel gear other then its not high end.

Well the second owner (Goldear) I got this deck off of told me he bought it off a retired doctor who simply bought the best possible. Apparently he hardly ever used the deck as it had very low hours. Goldear told me the heads look almost new. He also has a 3014A from the same guy, but the price was double. He told me sonically there is very little difference between the 3014 and 3014A. So I picked the older deck as his price was good for a deck with little use. After being stung buying my Aiwa 9000 deck and its service issues, I wanted a deck with low hours so I won't need to send it off for work. I hope this is still the case when I get the deck.

Goldear's comments on the sound of the 3014 was this:

"There is a particular aspect of "musicality" that this unit can capture that I've never heard another cassette deck match. Naks can sound great, but they don't pull you into the music the way that this machine can. To me, that is its greatest virtue."

[niklasthedolphin]

I didn't realize Macs were not accurate, but maybe that is why people like their sound. Im currently running a Rotel Pre and amp (RB 1070 and RC 985). I've never heard anyone complain about Rotel gear other then its not high end.

Well the second owner (Goldear) I got this deck off of told me he bought it off a retired doctor who simply bought the best possible. Apparently he hardly ever used the deck as it had very low hours. Goldear told me the heads look almost new. He also has a 3014A from the same guy, but the price was double. He told me sonically there is very little difference between the 3014 and 3014A. So I picked the older deck as his price was good for a deck with little use. After being stung buying my Aiwa 9000 deck and its service issues, I wanted a deck with low hours so I won't need to send it off for work. I hope this is still the case when I get the deck.

Goldear's comments on the sound of the 3014 was this:

"There is a particular aspect of "musicality" that this unit can capture that I've never heard another cassette deck match. Naks can sound great, but they don't pull you into the music the way that this machine can. To me, that is its greatest virtue."

I will be honest to the bone.

Rotel is nothing.

I'm sorry.

A lot of people out there, having an opinion on what deck is sounding better than the others, have equipment on which you can't hear difference between a mosquito whistling and an elephant farting.

I will gladly tell you my opinion on concrete suggestions or advise what to combine, because the art and craftmanship in our hobby is matching gear to sing synergism ................ in contrast to what a lot of people, spending $ 100.000s of gold, think.

I believe that > 99% of claimed audiophiles and hifi nerds have no mastry of this art.

I now what this deck can.

I think you should give it a chance on good sounding equipment.
In the right circumstances this deck beats all digital sound.
Even 32/196 and DXD 24BIT/352.8kHz.

I know a lot of peolpe will doom me for this post but I hate to lie.

"dolph"

[gamve]

No the Aiwa 9000 is definately not junk. But its never been known as a deck to beat the Dragon either. It rivals it maybe, but doesn't beat it. When I get my rebuilt Aiwa back from being serviced (for the second time), I will compare these two decks. The Aiwa excells on both normal type 1 tapes and also the very good metal tapes. I suspect the Tandberg will up the anty.

My concern at the moment is if my stereo system is good enough to hear the differences the Tandberg may make over my other decks. I may have to wait to get better speakers and some Mac gear to know what the deck is all about.

Its OK Brax, I was just pulling your leg. I thought I saw you were running B&W 602 speakers. You can modify these easily and cheaply to take them into an entirely different league. The standard boxes are OK but with some easy mods (Box and front panel only, No mods to anything else) these speakers are killers. I've modded a couple of pairs with great results. Please PM me and I will run you through the procedures. After these mods you will probably want to keep them and save a few bucks. This will save you buggering about trying to match up speakers. I used the 602's with solid state and single ended valve amps and they worked well with either.

[braxus]

Gamve,

Let me know on those 602 mods.



Dolph,

I can take a hit. It won't kill me to know Rotel isn't a great system. But I will admit it beats most mid fi units sold today especially the home theater stuff. The amp does have some balls for the price I paid for it. My next question is since you don't believe Mac gear is anything worth looking into, what do you suggest then? I'd still like to stick with B&W speakers. I may consider the 804S or 803D down the road, but the 602S3 is what I have at the moment. Im also looking into a Magnum Dynalab 102T tuner.

My buddy in Seattle emailed me some pics of the deck today. It definately looks to be in great shape that Goldear kept it in. It even comes with all the covers which are typically missing from many of this model decks out there. Even comes with the rare user manual and remote (which was optional on the 3014). Here are the pics.

[Nak_novice]

Congrats on your new machine Scott, I'll be interested in you opinions too.
Rgds, Ben

[niklasthedolphin]

Gamve,

Let me know on those 602 mods.



Dolph,

I can take a hit. It won't kill me to know Rotel isn't a great system. But I will admit it beats most mid fi units sold today especially the home theater stuff. The amp does have some balls for the price I paid for it. My next question is since you don't believe Mac gear is anything worth looking into, what do you suggest then? I'd still like to stick with B&W speakers. I may consider the 804S or 803D down the road, but the 602S3 is what I have at the moment. Im also looking into a Magnum Dynalab 102T tuner.

My buddy in Seattle emailed me some pics of the deck today. It definately looks to be in great shape that Goldear kept it in. It even comes with all the covers which are typically missing from many of this model decks out there. Even comes with the rare user manual and remote (which was optional on the 3014). Here are the pics.

The Magnum is a very good going.
One of the absolute best.

I never was keen on B&W myself.
But when you wanna stick to them, try listening to mark Levinson,
Atmas-Phere, Transcendent Beast, Audio Note and in the cheaper end there's Exposure, Sugden and Thorhauge.
There's more but that's a few.

If you are going for Tandberg Cassette and Magnum tuner, you must be aiming at the very top.
Then the rest must follow.

have a nice weekend.

"dolph"

[SLA]

Mcintosh are very very good...

check their pream: c1000

really Braxus don't trust anybody's opinion. go to the dealer and hear it yourself. It is really great. (Now I did that, and mind you - I don't have Mcintosh - I have Sonic Frontiers pre and Conrad Johnston amp - both tube).

It all depends on speaker/ room acoustics... etc..

[braxus]

Well the three Mac units I was looking into were the 275 tube amp, the C220 tube preamp, and the MCD 301 SACD player. All are well known units and have a following. I never heard anyone complain about their gear until now. As for listenning- I plan to when that time comes. They sell out their Mac gear rather quickly, so getting a listenning test may be harder then usual.

[Mr. Lin]

Don't go for Mac if you want to be able to hear differenceses.
:-)

I had to deliver back the MA 6900 due to lack of sound quality.

"dolph"

So you had one piece of Mac gear that didn't suite your tastes and you think they're all bad?

[Marc Hugo]

Right Mr Lin, agreed there.

There are plenty of marques out there, including mainstream manufacturers and not just boutique specialists that have a line of good 'uns and a dog or two; or conversely a justified reputation for ho-hum products and a couple of diamonds dotted about in their range.

Some brands are great with tuners and just don't shine with other components. Nakamichi made excellent cassette decks, their amps (with the exception of the Stasis-based series) were underwhelming.

Firstly, Rotel is not nothing. In the world of hyperbole, perhaps so. I see it as a figure of speech, where it is subjective and no harm is intended. Want to know what nothing is? Virtual pre-fab trash that runs on batteries, made in mainland China for the Africa and Indonesia markets. You might never have seen it. I'd stick most data-reduced portable/personal digital toys into this category too, and all mp3 and it's ilk.

One must take all this stuff with a "deep-breath in a paper bag" philosophy. If there was ever an industry/hobby where the law of diminishing returns applied more than hi-fi - I frankly don't know of it.

The other thing is that audiophiles are in constant danger of taking themselves too seriously. I remember Rahiel Nasir, then editor of What Hi-Fi saying that "audiophiles don't like music, they just like the sound it makes." We must never forget, its all about the music.

Now, Dolph, you have some magnificent equipment. I love the look and the sound of Mark Levinson and Madrigal Labs stuff. The circuit boards are practically works of art in themselves. Above all, I like the "idea" of owning Mark Levinson. I like all good amps - I heard systems using Chord power amps before, Exposure, Boulder, Naim - some grand stuff. They all sounded huge, majestic and involving. The one amplifier I liked the most was a system with a Hafler XL600. It was paired with a Spectral pre-amp. But these were never side-by-side experiences, and thewre’s no accounting for other “human” factors. Perhaps I was feeling well on the day. Open up any Rotel amp and you will see fine circuit architecture and excellent toroidal power supplies.

High-end manufacturers use fine components, solid design, and great care in assembly. Most of the reasons for price differences between a Denon amp and a Copland amp arise from component choice (the actual parts), the scale of production and the nature of assembly. Not very often the design. One works on volume, the other doesn't. One uses Solen and Nichihon caps, the other uses Black Gates (you hope). One uses assembly line automation, batch section assembly and low-paid workers in the developing world; the other uses an eccentric gentleman who drives a SUV, lives in a leafy Atlanta suburb and has an opinion on everything under the sun.

Dolph's point I think, is about the synergy and that last few percent. One must try to get it all right through the chain. The more differential/idiosyncratic a component is (more likely to happen with exclusive, short run brands), the trickier it is to get that last grain of inter-component synergy. All these things work fine together electrically, that's a given. But balance is something else. In the end though, sound, is partly about educating your ears, and partly about taste. Rather like wine, good wine is the wine you like. Gradually, the product itself educates you. You learn the subtleties. As a student, a fresh and fruity Gamay is right up you alley; later on you'll want to pick your way through the more complex (and expensive) cabernets. So it is with hi-fi.

Lastly, B+W are also not nought. B+W only make loudspeakers and they are excellent at it. From the delightful 6 series that Braxus has, to the stupendous 8s with Silver Signature’s in-between. Like big manufacturers (and therefore totally unlike small ones) they have the resources to build laboratories to make better speakers more affordable.

Just to exemplify the above, a friend of mine, after having had Ruark (pricy), Mission(cheap) and Sonus Faber(pricey again) speakers, settled on a pair of very affordable Quad 12L. This mates well with his 12W Audio Note valve SET amp. He’s now happy.

Finally, since this all started with the ubiquitous Tandberg 3014 cassette deck, it might sound excellent, (but an Aiwa AD9000 is already fantastic) but considering its price, I would have expected a bit more, especially from Norway, looks wise - my TASCAM 112 is a Victoria's Secret model compared.

Cheers - Marc

[braxus]

Marc,

I was confused in your post as you mentioned Rotel was nothing, but later said they had good designs in parts in their amps. So do think Rotel is ok or not?

I should be getting the Tandberg this week if all goes well. I'll eagerely hook it up to give it a listen.

As for Mac- I will still give their units a listen. I want tube gear and their tube units are highly rated. And their SACD player has been getting great comments on it.

[niklasthedolphin]

So you had one piece of Mac gear that didn't suite your tastes and you think they're all bad?

AND I listened to a lot of other Mac afterwards to figure out if I was just unlucky with my Mac, unlucky with the constallation or otherwise.

But unfortunately my conclusion was that Mac gear in general was not honest to the source.

A lot of people might like Mac, and this will not take away their plesure anyway.
They should stay happy about Mac.
But maybe they are just not going for honest gear doing no changes to the signal.

This is just the debate there would be if we realy went deep into differences between Nakamichi's and Tandberg's TOTL.
Nakamichi has flavour on the signal which is why a lot likes them.
Tandberg doesn't realy do that trick. They just serve you what it recieves from the input.

"dolph"

[niklasthedolphin]

Marc,

I was confused in your post as you mentioned Rotel was nothing, but later said they had good designs in parts in their amps. So do think Rotel is ok or not?

I should be getting the Tandberg this week if all goes well. I'll eagerely hook it up to give it a listen.

As for Mac- I will still give their units a listen. I want tube gear and their tube units are highly rated. And their SACD player has been getting great comments on it.

Braxus.

Rotel is fine gear..................
Mac is very fine gear.................
And for that matter a lot of other stuff is very fine gear and sounds great.

That is if you match it thoroughly with the rest of the chain.

BUT the reason for my statements is that you now go for THE best cassette deck.

If you went for purchasing Wilson Alexandria, my point of view would be the same.

If you went for a Bugatti Veyron my advise would be to find good roads and good gasoline............not just a random freeway.

I realy don't think Rotel will offer the option of revealing the differences between the Dragon and the 3014.
Just as with the Mac amps.
They would probably make both cassette decks sound very very sweet and seductive, but if you would be able to hear the difference? Honestly I don't think so.

So in this context, please, there is no offence from my side.

It's a matter of relativity.............

"dolph"

[Marc Hugo]

Hi Braxus,

Sorry for the lack of clarity - I was using the double negative ("Rotel is 'not' nothing) - in a sense to quote the claim. i.e. It is indeed something. They are actually rather good - their power amps and integrated amps especially. When I said, "in the world of hyperbole, perhaps it is", I am referring to the dismissive exaggerations that are sometimes used in our hobby, but they are not meant in all sincerity. We are not unique. I'll give you an example. I was sitting with my wife (a once champion figure skater) some years ago watching a nationals event, and she remarked "That girl can't jump!!" I had just watched her pull off a double toe-loop, so I was surprised. What I learned was she had just pulled out too early and thus scored a deduction. It was more a reaction...

But Braxus, Rotel, hang onto them. Once Rotel made a little integrated - the RA-935BX. What a gem!! Incidently, I think Dolph's reference to Nak's "flavour" is right. And I admit to finding that flavour irresistable. Tandberg is more neutral. So are ReVox and TEAC on the neutral side.

Hope this clarifies - of course keep us in the picture when your new family member arrives.

Cheers - Marc

[stuartypoorty]

In the early 90's the Michi range from Rotel garnered lots of good press here and was a popular upmarket choice, they're quite rare suggesting system longevity/pride of ownership and, on the odd occasion when they come up for sale fetch a good price.

Here's some images, the phono stage and preamplifier - a brute of a power amp was also available along with a tuner.

[niklasthedolphin]

I find myself pretty much misunderstood in this thread.

Maybe it's my lack of english.

I never meant to say this or that is garbage.

I just meant to say that in the very top is only very few.
And when you aim at the very top with some of your gear you won't get the benefit of it unless the rest is also in the very top and also match each other like yin and yan.

On a sound quality scale of ten a component might be on 9,2 and another component is 9,4.
Put together that should give an average of 9,3.
But when these two components realy match each other, and even though they still each on their own remains at 9,2, respectively 9,4, the average of the match should be so very close to ten possible.

This is the conditions you should offer gear when you know it's the best like the Tandberg TCD 3014 and the Magnum Dynalab.

This is the gear that deserves Wilson Alexandria loudspeakers, Mark levinson Preamps (I don't find Mark Levinson power amps very good), Atmas-Phere power amps, SME 30 TT, The Ana Log, SME V, RB 1000, Audio Note Io ltd, Shelter Harmony etc. etc.

All gear beyond 5 on that scale might be good, including Rotel and McIntosh.
In particular if you have the skills to match them with synergy to other gear.

But take randomly 1000 amplifiers that are above 5 on the scale and if you're lucky one or two of them gets up above 9 on the scale.

Do I make myself more understandable here?

"dolph"

[TandbergRay]

Braxus,
I understand Dolph's suggestions. I spent a good fortune on all of my equipment over the years. One thing to remember is doing so, in a good order. This is why I was jumping in so many of the replies from Shoeihell(Kevin) I was trying to be friendly. And when someone is using a receiver, like an old Kenwood, there is no point in squabbling about how they are getting an Otari, or a Tandberg 3014, or the like.....you will never appreciate how well the deck is, besides, the deck cannot surpass the Original Source you are using...if that is a Good Turntable, or Digital. So, makes most sense to get the best Source you can possibly afford, then move to seperates...Amp, and Pre-Amp, then Speakers......once you achieve your best at those, then follow with the best Tape Deck, be it cassette or Reel to Reel that you can afford. Then you will reap the benefits of all. Also, I have the information for Nick, the Tandberg USA Tech. if you need that, he is in NYC, in USA.
Also, to give you a bit of peice of mind, I too bought a Reel to Reel from Goldear, and he described it to the T! Perfect, and he was also very fair on the pricing. He also Packaged the unit so well it would have survived Hurricane Katrina! Goldear is a great guy, knows his Audio, and is very honest and fair in his sales. You can contact me for any Tandberg USA info, if you need it. Best of Luck to you!

TandbergRay

[Marc Hugo]

I find myself pretty much misunderstood in this thread.

.[/B]

Do I make myself more understandable here?

"dolph"


Fully understood Dolph. Incidentally, your ReVox B710 has long been my favourite European cassette deck - preferring that to the ReVox B215 really due to the style.

The first Tandbergs I ever saw were used in a language laboratory - top loading and designed to play the special cassettes in only one direction. On the top 2 tracks of the 4 track cassette was the tutors voice which could not be erased. There was only a playback head for this function. The bottom track featured the playback head and record head, where the student could record his voice and later erase and re-record over it. These machines shared the 30-40 booth laboratory with similar machines made by Crown of Japan. The Tandbergs seemed to give less hassle as I recall.

Cheers - Marc

[niklasthedolphin]

Braxus,
I understand Dolph's suggestions. I spent a good fortune on all of my equipment over the years. One thing to remember is doing so, in a good order. This is why I was jumping in so many of the replies from Shoeihell(Kevin) I was trying to be friendly. And when someone is using a receiver, like an old Kenwood, there is no point in squabbling about how they are getting an Otari, or a Tandberg 3014, or the like.....you will never appreciate how well the deck is, besides, the deck cannot surpass the Original Source you are using...if that is a Good Turntable, or Digital. So, makes most sense to get the best Source you can possibly afford, then move to seperates...Amp, and Pre-Amp, then Speakers......once you achieve your best at those, then follow with the best Tape Deck, be it cassette or Reel to Reel that you can afford. Then you will reap the benefits of all. Also, I have the information for Nick, the Tandberg USA Tech. if you need that, he is in NYC, in USA.
Also, to give you a bit of peice of mind, I too bought a Reel to Reel from Goldear, and he described it to the T! Perfect, and he was also very fair on the pricing. He also Packaged the unit so well it would have survived Hurricane Katrina! Goldear is a great guy, knows his Audio, and is very honest and fair in his sales. You can contact me for any Tandberg USA info, if you need it. Best of Luck to you!

TandbergRay

Sigh.............
Thanks for making me confident knowing I was understodd.

I so much agree with you in what you write.

Except for the point of where to start purchasing top gear.

My opinion is:
Start with loudspeakers.
Then go for cartridge for your TT.
Then go for tape deck.
And IF you also want to have Mic's go for them next.

I'll explain why..........


For the money you spend I can generaly speaking list the following order:

Transducers are those components with most importance for the character and quality of the sound.
Transducers are those places in you gear where electronic signals are transformed to acoustic (Loudspeakers) or where magnetism, acoustic or mechanical movement are transformed to electronic signals (Tape heads - microphones - cartridges).

The listening inviroment/room can have somewhere between 1/2 and 1/5 of the influence of the transducers.

Sources can have up to 1/5 of the influence of tranducers.

Amplifying units has around 1/10 influence compared to transducer.

Digital Sources or digital amplifiers have around 1/50 (and that will unfortunately be to the worse).

Signal and loudspeaker cables 1/100 of tranducers (again to the worse. No cables does sound any good).

Power conditioners, specialy manufactured power cables has less than 1/500 influence compared to transducer and will have most influence on gear with badly made power supply circuits and on set-ups with hum, grounding probs and "radiated noise".

Working tweaks will get in somewhere between the lot depending on the character.

Most tweaks has no function and no significance whatsoever. Snake oil.
Cabel lifters, CD planing machines, demagnetizing of speaker cables or cartridges............... count them in here as well as small rice bags on the speakers and coils hanging from the ceiling.

Does this make sence?

"dolph"

[braxus]

The Tandberg is now in my town and I should be picking it up from my friend's brother's place tomorrow night. So it should be in its new home soon.

I wonder if the Rotel gear I have is more revealing then one would expect. I've read reviews of the preamp I have which one said they compared it against high end gear and were surprised at how good sounding this pre was. Very musical and transparent. Some compared it against Krell and Linn. I know that my system is revealing enough to hear the difference my Aiwa deck made over the other decks. So I would expect to hear at least as good sound from the Tandberg in that respect.

[TandbergRay]

Braxus,
I believe you will hear the greatness of the Tandberg. Rotel is by no means junk, or even mediocer. It is very good. Maybe not the Elite status, but you would have to spend tons of money to achieve that. You can always better your equipment in time, and piece by piece. Your far ahead of many of the members that I have seen trying to give you advice. Most of them dont have a system up to par with yours. And most that were trying to tell you what to do, dont have enough experience to do so. Dolph may be an exception to this rule, along with a few others, but dont doubt yourself, or your equipment. Your doing just fine in my book, and I think you will love that Tandvberg, let me know if you need any help with anything, regarding Nick, the Tandberg guyu from the USA, in NYC. I am always glad to help fellow audiophiles. Best of Luck, TandbergRay

[braxus]

Thanks Ray for your comments. The Rotel gear is also supposed to be very revealing and neutral, so its a good match for the Tandberg in terms of the type of sound they produce.

I've actually talked to you before about Nick. You gave me his number in an email before. I don't suspect I'll need his services (at least for a long while) since the deck I got has had very little use. And Goldear is a respectable seller and true to his word. When my friend in Seattle went to his place to pick up the deck, Goldear gave him a demonstration of the deck and its features before they did the transaction. Most people will just shove the unit in your hands and walk you back to the door. I hope this deck never needs servicing for as long as I have it. I don't suspect I'll ever sell this deck. I pray I won't have to.

[TandbergRay]

Hey Braxus,
I personally have no doubts that you should be able to hear how great the Tandberg is. And as far as Goldear goes, you couldn't have bought the deck off of a better person. He is not only an audiophile, but also is good at servicing and maintaining his equipment. One thing Id suggest though is, if you are not blown away by the difference, dont right away blame your Rotel, or Goldear.

I bought a Direct Drive Open Reel deck from Goldear, and it too had very minimal use, and it showed when I received it, he was very honest in his description. But with a Tandberg 3014, there is a belt kit, since its not Direct Drive. So you may want to find out if Goldear ever replaced the Belts, which could have an effect on sound. The belts after all these years, regardless of amount of play time or usage, would need a replacement. Also, if you got a great deck like this, with minimal usage, it may be a good idea to get the belts replaced, check your pinch rollers, and maybe have the unit fully calibrated and brought to Better than Factory Specs, with regard to Nick. If the deck truely is in the shape Goldear stated, which I have no doubts about, Id get that baby right up to Factory Specs. Also to be honest with you, the small differences between the 3014 and the 3014A, Nick has the capabilities of bringing the unit to better than spec. as well as bringing the unit up to 3014A status. I had him do this to my Tandberg TPT-3001 FM Tuner, and this is one awsome tuner, regarded by many as the best FM Tuner ever made, so mine is now a TPT-3001A, and I personally like the color of the 3001 better, the Battelship Grey, so in my case, I got the best of both worlds. If you choose, you could do the same with your 3014, what the hell, your gonna have the best Cassette deck ever made, might as well make sure you have it fully up to its highest potential, so you can be sure you are hearing what it can actually do, with all new rubber, so you know it will be trouble free for years to come. It would be a wise investment, and a deck like that deserves it. Then you would without question have the very best Deck you could get. Its always best to have fresh belts on an older deck regardless. Plus being sure all alignments are dead on. Nick is to Tandberg, what Jeff Galin at ESL Labs is to Nakamichi. And those words come directly from Jeff Galin, he said there is noone better with Tandberg than Nick, and having used him on all my Tandberg Gear, 2 Reel to Reels, TD20A, TD20A-SE, and TPT-3001A FM Tuner, I can also testify to his Tandberg expertise, plus he has a supply of NOS Parts for many Tandberg Audio Pieces, let alone tons of experience, he was Tandberg USA Service, so they are second nature to him. Im only trying to help you out with the best suggestions I can think of, with such a great deck. I talked to Goldear about those decks before, when I bought my Reel to Reel from him, and I would have loved to gotten either one, the 3014, or the 3014A he had, but finances kept me from being able to do so. So I congratulate you on being the one to get the Tandberg. All the Best......Ray

[braxus]

I decided to phone Nick at both his numbers and enquire on what servicing would cost. He seems to be away today when I called. Anyway I left him a message in regards to costs. If I go ahead and get the 3014 serviced, it will be next year as Im tied up getting my Aiwa deck rebuilt at the moment. That deck will cost me a bundle to do, so I'll have to wait on the Tandberg.

Any ideas on what he charges to do work on something like this?

[braxus]

I guess I can compare a Nak deck now with the Tandberg since I just won a BIN now on a DR-1 Nak. Not a top Nak deck, but up there. Paid $200 which isn't spectacular, but still cheaper then many decks.

[macster]

I decided to phone Nick at both his numbers and enquire on what servicing would cost. He seems to be away today when I called. Anyway I left him a message in regards to costs. If I go ahead and get the 3014 serviced, it will be next year as Im tied up getting my Aiwa deck rebuilt at the moment. That deck will cost me a bundle to do, so I'll have to wait on the Tandberg.

Any ideas on what he charges to do work on something like this?

If you get the estimate, would you be so kind as to post it or pm me with it.

M~

[braxus]

Well its in its new home and hooked up for use! I took some pics and video to show this deck in all its glory. I must admit I love the way this deck engages in its modes. Very smooth and quiet action on playback and the wind and rewind are very quiet, quick, and smooth. Going from one mode to the next is also very smooth. It makes my other decks seem clunky. Anyway I didn't listen to the music very loud at all, so I can't comment yet on the sound (its late here). But I did see this deck in action and am showing it here for others to see. I do recommend this deck so far from what I've noticed using it. Anyway take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro-BP7bqX3c

And pics are below.

[Marc Hugo]

Hi Braxus,

Congratulations on your new Tandberg (whick looks great on the YouTube clip) and you successful bid for a DR-1.

I must say, those are two fine, well chosen machines which I'm sure will give you a lot of joy.

Give us the same intro on YouTube with the new Nak - I really liked that!!

Cheers - Marc

[braxus]

Well I decided to make it public Im having some issues with the deck. Apparently all features weren't tested right before the sale and this deck is not recording at all. Its also kicking the tape out next to the first pinch roller. The second issue might be related to the first. It also doesn't seem to like those Akai tapes at all since its crunching them up a bit do to a stiff winding of the tape in its shell. I'm talking to Goldear to see what we can do to resolve all this. I'll keep you all posted.

[macster]

Well I decided to make it public Im having some issues with the deck. Apparently all features weren't tested right before the sale and this deck is not recording at all. Its also kicking the tape out next to the first pinch roller. The second issue might be related to the first. I'm talking to Goldear to see what we can do to resolve all this. I'll keep you all posted.


Hang in there man. FYI, Soundsmith repairs these.http://www.sound-smith.com/repair3.htm

M~

[braxus]

Hang in there man. FYI, Soundsmith repairs these.http://www.sound-smith.com/repair3.htm

M~

Actually I got a guy (Nick) who was the Tandberg repair tech in the US for the company. He's the guy Tandberg Ray recommended to me. Nick has spare parts and charges for what needs to be done. This deck shouldn't need the services of the company you site (since they only do rebuilds), so Im sending it to Nick if we decide to.

I mentioned to Goldear we can either return the deck for the A model he has and pay the extra amount, or send it off to repair. I'll decide what to do once I hear back from Goldear. Im not sure if the deck I got from him has a warranty since it was bought through his business with a receipt.

[macster]

Actually I got a guy (Nick) who was the Tandberg repair tech in the US for the company. He has spare parts and charges for what needs to be done. This deck shouldn't need the services of the company you site (since they only do rebuilds), so Im sending it to Nick if we decide to.

I mentioned to Goldear we can either return the deck for the A model he has and pay the extra amount, or send it off to repair. I'll decide what to do once I hear back from Goldear. Im not sure if the deck I got from him has a warranty since it was bought through his business with a receipt.

My bad.

M~

[braxus]

My bad.

M~

No not at all. Thanks for the reference anyway.

[niklasthedolphin]

No not at all. Thanks for the reference anyway.

Hey Braxus.

I'm so sorry for you.
It's PITA to get a malfunction deck.

Hope you and Goldear solves this issue ASAP.

"dolph"

[braxus]

Hey Braxus.

I'm so sorry for you.
It's PITA to get a malfunction deck.

Hope you and Goldear solves this issue ASAP.

"dolph"


He will resolve this for me to my satisfaction.

As for decks- I'm starting to hate buying used decks because almost everyone of them needs servicing of some kind and the bills for the repairs are starting to really add up. As you know Im already at $2000 for my Aiwa 9000 between buying it and getting it fixed, and its now going in for a major rebuild which may add another grand on top. Any my second Aiwa needs to go back in for a third time since I now found out the erase head isn't working very good. Sheesh- used decks. If I ever go to sell these things I'll never get my money back on the repairs.

[niklasthedolphin]

I hope he does resolve this for me as he hasn't emailed me much since I initially told him about it.

As for decks- I'm starting to hate buying used decks because almost everyone of them needs servicing of some kind and the bills for the repairs are starting to really add up. As you know Im already at $2000 for my Aiwa 9000 between buying it and getting it fixed, and its now going in for a major rebuild which may add another grand on top. Any my second Aiwa needs to go back in for a third time since I now found out the erase head isn't working very good. Sheesh- used decks. If I ever go to sell these things I'll never get my money back on the repairs.

When a deck has issues, it's worth evaluating if it's worth fixing and how much it's worth spending on it.

No deck is worth spending as much on as the Tandberg 3000 and 900 serieses.

You spend > $2000 on some Aiwa deck?

If you have to get this deck opened and spend some gold on getting it fixed, then make shure you get the full monty and get it back in "As new state".

You can get heads and all the rubber, springs and bearings worldwide.
Electrical components are fully available from anywhere.
Mechanical parts need a donor machine or maybe you can get a few of them in norway.

Is Goldear geographical far away from you?
Maybe you should swap it for the other and then test the other one before purchasing it.

Good luck.

"dolph"

[braxus]

Is Goldear geographical far away from you?
Maybe you should swap it for the other and then test the other one before purchasing it.

I live outside of Vancouver BC, while Goldear is in the US in Seattle. So its not an easy trek for me to go to his place. This is why my buddy in Seattle handled all this. He too feels bad he didn't have the proper amount of time to give it a full test before he took it home. He is willing to help me get this thing fixed too.

I may trade up, but again that deck too may have issues like needing new belts, etc- so Im leaning towards getting this first deck fixed over trading it. If i traded up to the A deck, I'd have to pay quite a bit extra to get it on top of the refund for the other. So relatively it may be worth just to get the non A deck fixed.

Keep in mind this deck was sold to me as having very little use- almost new condition. So I would expect most parts have lots of life left in them. I'll have to see what Nick says if I do get it sent to him.

[braxus]

I just got an email from Goldear and he is willing to work this issue out. He offered to repair it himself since he is an electrical engineer with equipment. He also offered to let me upgrade my deck to the A deck he has. And he did say if I get the A deck, it will get fully inspected before he lets it go.

[braxus]

I did some tests on the deck last night and its definately the belts causing the record problem. The tape is not staying in contact with the record head. I let it play for a while and all of a sudden the sound came back, though the high end wasn't there. And it recorded for a while that way. So I bet the belt is slipping which is also probably causing the tape to get pushed down past the first pinch roller.

So I'll either get it fixed here in Canada or send it to Nick in New York, since all I bet it needs are new belts. I did however notice one meter is slightly higher in levels then the other. It also sits higher when stationary. So I wonder if that can be calibrated.

[utahusker]

I just got an email from Goldear and he is willing to work this issue out. He offered to repair it himself since he is an electrical engineer with equipment. He also offered to let me upgrade my deck to the A deck he has. And he did say if I get the A deck, it will get fully inspected before he lets it go.
What's it going to cost for the "upgrade"? If it's not that much, I'd go that route if he pays the international shipping.

[braxus]

What's it going to cost for the "upgrade"? If it's not that much, I'd go that route if he pays the international shipping.

I seem to remember he wanted between $1250-1400 for his A deck, so it would double the cost. Since its probably only belts, it shouldn't run that high (another $700 I mean).

[Marc Hugo]

Hi Braxus,

I'm very sorry to hear this - it does however sound as if all your deck needs is a set of all-new rubber bits, (belts and pinch rollers) and you'll be flying.

Good luck.

[utahusker]

I seem to remember he wanted between $1250-1400 for his A deck, so it would double the cost. Since its probably only belts, it shouldn't run that high (another $700 I mean).
I don't know much about the Tandberg Cassettes, but my 20A was easy to change rubber parts.

[utahusker]

Braxus, pm me your email and I can send you an attached pdf of the service manual for your deck.

[braxus]

Thanks Utah, but before I got this deck I ordered a SM for it, so I already have one. But thanks anyway. I don't suspect I'll need it since I think Im going to send the deck with my friend to Nick in New York.

[braxus]

I'll change topics here and talk more about the deck in use during playback. The meters on this deck are unique. It reads up to 6db on type 1 and 2 tapes, yet below is another scale for metal tapes which only goes up to 3db. 0db on metal is around the same spot as 3db on chrome tapes.

Anyway I was playing a tape made on my Aiwa and noticed the levels were pegged in this deck. Those poor meters kept hitting the stops at the end. I seem to remember the levels set to 9db on my Aiwa, and on a JVC it read past 12db in spots. Yet I didn't get any distortion using the tape on my Aiwa. That Metal Master tape can take some good levels anyway. But it made me wonder about the difference in meter readings between the Aiwa and Tandberg. It seems the Aiwa claims the levels are higher in DB then what older decks would say they're at. My Aiwa likes metal tapes to go to 9 db, while the Tandberg (more reserved) says 3db. The top level on my Tandberg for all tape types was 0db. Anything above would be in the red. The sound on the Tandberg seemed more distorted then what I heard on the Aiwa, so maybe the Tandberg can't take hot levels to begin with? Setting it all at 0db seems rather conservative if you ask me, though that would give a better frequency response performance.

This brings up another point. The Tandberg frequency response is 18hz to 23 khz +-3db at -20db record levels with Dolby C on. My Aiwa is 13Hz to 24khz at +-3db at -20db record levels with Dolby C. If the Tandberg has more reserved levels on the meters, then -20db would be higher then the Aiwa deck which would indicate the Tandberg has better performance. Any thoughts?

[gamve]

Jeez Brax you have some rottern luck. Did ya kill a chinaman or something? Sorry to hear the 3014's not right. I guess if it's just belts you should be able to get them replaced without too much cost. Hope you can get it sorted without too much hassle

[braxus]

Jeez Brax you have some rottern luck. Did ya kill a chinaman or something? Sorry to hear the 3014's not right. I guess if it's just belts you should be able to get them replaced without too much cost. Hope you can get it sorted without too much hassle

Well Im not expecting too many surprises beyond the belts in this deck. Better not anyway. As for my luck, well I have my thoughts on why I keep getting bad decks, but for religious reasons I won't mention it here.

[braxus]

To keep some posted on where I am with the Tandberg at the moment, I decided I will take it in for new belts around November. There is a local shop in the valley here that works on a lot of tapedecks, so I trust they can do a good job on it- especially if I supply the service manual for it. I just don't want this deck travelling too much if I can avoid it. Shipping can easily do some damage to these decks, no matter how they are packed. And crossing the border twice again is not something I'd rather have to deal with. But I have said if the place here cannot fix the deck to my expectations, I will then send it to Nick in New York to get work done on it. Again all Im expecting is the deck will need new belts, and I'll have them look at the VU meters while there. One meter is lower then the other, so I need to have them adjusted so they are reading right.

For fun Im posting a picture of the transport section of the deck. I took the covers off to prepare it for shipping later on. These covers are hard to replace if you break off the connectors on them.

Anyway I did listen to a tape on this deck this week and it sounds ok, but it was made on another deck- so it could be better.

When I finally get both the Tandberg and my Aiwa back from repairs, I'll post some follow ups on these decks and how they sound together.

[iamhifi]

Braux,
You will never go wrong with Mac gear, it is by far more musical than a lot of other high end Gear and it has the best resale value. Now why do you think that the Tandberg is better than the Dragon. I have a review for Stereo Review March 1988 that does head to head laboratory test with the best 5 decks of the times, Nakamichi Dragon, Onkyo TA-2090, Tandberg 3014, Revox B215, and Harman Kardon CD491.
Guess who's the winner, The Dragon very close second the Revox.
Here is a scan Enjoy and Judge.
Angel

[niklasthedolphin]

Braux,
You will never go wrong with Mac gear, it is by far more musical than a lot of other high end Gear and it has the best resale value. Now why do you think that the Tandberg is better than the Dragon. I have a review for Stereo Review March 1988 that does head to head laboratory test with the best 5 decks of the times, Nakamichi Dragon, Onkyo TA-2090, Tandberg 3014, Revox B215, and Harman Kardon CD491.
Guess who's the winner, The Dragon very close second the Revox.
Here is a scan Enjoy and Judge.
Angel

Obviously I disagree with you.

I have Revox B710 which I chose in close up test to the B215.
I used to have the Dragon.
I've tested the Dragon, the CR7, the ZX9 the TCD 3014, TCD 910, the B710, TCD 440A and quite a few other machines up against each other on top equipment.

The Revox came below the TCD 440A in PB.
The Dragon was not the best.
Neither was any of the other Naks.

And well............MacIntosh...............
I had to deliver the MA 6900 back to the dealer because of lack of sound quality.

I listened to other McIntosh...........tubes and SS............also the older ones.
Didn't change my view on the sound quality of Mac gear.
They are not honest in any respect.

I never rely my decisions on other peoples written tests.
Most hifi journalists can't hear difference between an elephants scream and a mosquitos burp.
You can always find a test somewhere stating the other point of vies.
Just like with statistics. Statistics are made for them publishing them.


But.................the Nakamichis are very good decks and close to the best.
A lot of them are a littel warm in the sound.
Some of them has too much plastic in the drivetrain.
But Nakamichi for sure are easier obtainable in the US than the Tandberg TCD 3xxx and 9xx series.

MacIntosh are nice looking gear with a very nice and warm kind of "hugging & Sqeezing" sound.

And thank you for the offer on the ZX-9 in the other thread.
I'm not realy in for shopping Nakamichi.
I was just wondering why Nakamichi chose to make A-reverse on Dragon, automatic and track-joined calibration on CR7 (with manual you can achieve far better results if you're patient).
And I wrote:
"I think ZX9 would be my choise for a Nak deck if......................."
IF.......................

I am perfectly fine with my TCD 910.
However, my power mono amps are on vacation 4000 km away to get upgraded, so for the time being I have NO sound............exept in my Ergo, Sennheiser and Beyer.

You should try, if the chance is given to you, to compare the TOTL Nakamchi with Tandberg TOTL on the best sounding eqipment and judge for yourself.

Do you listen to R2R?

"dolph"

[iamhifi]

Dolf,
Mcintosh not Macintosh.
The 6900 is does not compare to the rest of the gear, if you want a integrated amp go for the 7000 that has autoformers. I got to say that maybe there is something wrong with the 6900 you tried. the 6900 is a fine piece of equipment. Something tells me that you like bright sound when you trash Mcintosh and Nakamichi. keep in mind that almost every deck out there needs some kind of repairs or calibration. My Dragon is in pinacle shape and so are the 2 ZX-9, and CR-7A. My deck will be good to compare with what ever you want to throw at it. Also is not only about the amplication, you have to match cable, speakers and so. If you don't have the right combination then you can't judge the sound of a Mcintosh. I don't own the newest stuff. I have a C40 pre conected with Nirvana cable to my MC352. the amp kicks and is connected with an Au24 Audience speaker cable to a Harbeth 7ES2 speakers. The Decks are conected with Nordost V2 Blue Heaven. All my gear is power by a Shunyata Hydra 8 and Shunyata Python power cords.
I happened to have sinergy in my sound system, and I have also try a ton of decks and they can't even come close, and I bet is because they are not in the same shape as mine, I mean calibrated and so on.
Again everybody has a different taste.
Angel

[macster]

Too funny as to where this is going. I have a Bose Lifestyle 38 system and it sounds good.

M~

[niklasthedolphin]

Dolf,
Mcintosh not Macintosh.
The 6900 is does not compare to the rest of the gear, if you want a integrated amp go for the 7000 that has autoformers. I got to say that maybe there is something wrong with the 6900 you tried. the 6900 is a fine piece of equipment. Something tells me that you like bright sound when you trash Mcintosh and Nakamichi. keep in mind that almost every deck out there needs some kind of repairs or calibration. My Dragon is in pinacle shape and so are the 2 ZX-9, and CR-7A. My deck will be good to compare with what ever you want to throw at it. Also is not only about the amplication, you have to match cable, speakers and so. If you don't have the right combination then you can't judge the sound of a Mcintosh. I don't own the newest stuff. I have a C40 pre conected with Nirvana cable to my MC352. the amp kicks and is connected with an Au24 Audience speaker cable to a Harbeth 7ES2 speakers. The Decks are conected with Nordost V2 Blue Heaven. All my gear is power by a Shunyata Hydra 8 and Shunyata Python power cords.
I happened to have sinergy in my sound system, and I have also try a ton of decks and they can't even come close, and I bet is because they are not in the same shape as mine, I mean calibrated and so on.
Again everybody has a different taste.
Angel

Thank you for your concern.

I did a lot of matching since the 60's and today my preferrence is a set-up with Wilson Alexandria, Mark Levinson No 380s and OTL power amps with mastertapes preferably played on Lyrec R2R machines (slightly better than Studer/Nagra/Stellavox etc.).
Synergy is a keyword.


I can't afford the Wilson Alexandria ($ 200.000 a pair) but the rest of the mentioned is almost there.

I'm sorry i spelled the McIntosh incorrect.
Doesn't mean that much to me.

There was nothing wrong with the Mac i had.
And as I wrote, I tested some other Mac stuff..............cause I was puzzled that it didn't fulfil my expectations.

There was nothing wrong with the Nak's i used to have.
There is nothing wrong with my TCD 910.
All my gear is always in top shape, top adjustment and factory specs or better.

I don't like bright sound, I don't like warm sound, I don't like sound not true to the original reference as it was at the concert or in the studio.

I have been making master recordings myself once in a while since the late 70's.
When I do it in the present days, I decided to use my R2R in stead of digital 32/192. I use digital 24/96 as back up.

My NordOst cable has been detached.
The same problem as with the MA 6900.

If you never heard the TCD 910 I fully understand that you find the nakamichis the best.
They sound better than the Revox, They sound better than probably everything else...................but the Tandberg TOTL.

Enjoy your sound.

Don't spend to much money on power cables.
Their influence on the final sound is 1:500 compared to the transducers in your set-up.

Kindly

"dolph"

[iamhifi]

Dolph,
I'm with you when it comes to hear the sound as it was recorded. I also have a modest gear that sounds sweet and holografic in a room 15 by 12. I could also afford Mark Lenvinson and chose the C40 for the inputs and outputs and sound quality. I also thought about ARC. And yes I have a Teac 2000 that needs minor repair but I am not talking about reels only tape decks. Naks is the best sound when comparing decks to decks. I also will like to have the top of the line Wilson, top of the line Roland, top of the line Mcintosh, etc. I thought about the 380 but I am content with the sound I have now. I have fun with what I got and I will say it again my Dragon is overhaul and sounds incredible, but compare to the top of the line reel to reel might fall short I don't know. That said I don't know of any cassette deck that will sound any better, they fall a bit short. And the reason that I post the clip of Stereo magazine is so others can see what happened with the top Decks, and I also done some comparison of my own, and always come to the conclussion that the Dragon is the best tape deck.
Angel

[niklasthedolphin]

Dolph,
I'm with you when it comes to hear the sound as it was recorded. I also have a modest gear that sounds sweet and holografic in a room 15 by 12. I could also afford Mark Lenvinson and chose the C40 for the inputs and outputs and sound quality. I also thought about ARC. And yes I have a Teac 2000 that needs minor repair but I am not talking about reels only tape decks. Naks is the best sound when comparing decks to decks. I also will like to have the top of the line Wilson, top of the line Roland, top of the line Mcintosh, etc. I thought about the 380 but I am content with the sound I have now. I have fun with what I got and I will say it again my Dragon is overhaul and sounds incredible, but compare to the top of the line reel to reel might fall short I don't know. That said I don't know of any cassette deck that will sound any better, they fall a bit short. And the reason that I post the clip of Stereo magazine is so others can see what happened with the top Decks, and I also done some comparison of my own, and always come to the conclussion that the Dragon is the best tape deck.
Angel

That's fine but did you ever listen to the TCD 910 (or the 3014/3014A/3004) and did you ever make the shoot out between that and the Dragon yourself?
And if you did, did you also make shure they were in top shape?

That's what my conclusion is based on.

"dolph"

[iamhifi]

Dolph,
You are an advocate for the Tandberg TCD 910. You have posted all over the web that Tandberg is a killer of Dragon, definately not mine. The 910 is a pro machine that was limmited to 400 I think and expensive. And no, I have never gone against it, I don't know of anyone that has one I wish, but I went against a 3014A it sound it good but the Dragon sound it better. The Dragon had a deeper and wider stage, and nuances were heard that were absent on the 3014A or sounded tini in many cases. That said I will never know if the TCD 910 is any better, again you can't conclude that is better because you have never heard my Dragon. By the way I heard the Proac D25 and did not impressed me as muich as the Harbeth 7ES2 did. The D25 lost the gift of the 2.5 a warm speaker. But again is all about matching. I never meant to say that you like bright sound, after noting your system the right word is a bit clinical sound and there is nothing wrong with that it is just that I prefer a warmer sound.
Angel

[braxus]

You two seemed to have summed up the differences in sound you like and your choice of deck supports that. The Tandberg deck was always known for being accurate in its sound- very faithful to the source. The Nak Dragon is a warmer sound which may be pleasing to some ears. This may be why Angel you like the Dragon more- its warmer then the Tandberg. Dolph from what I've read likes units that are accurate, and the Tandberg would support that. But I'll also add that Dolph and Tandberg Ray are not the only ones who prefered the Tandberg. Goldear does as well. And I've read there is a consistency in this from people who have heard these top decks in comparison.

[iamhifi]

Braxus, Dolph and others,
The sound of the Dragon is not overly warm, look at some of my posting that I say that the Dragon falls between the CR-7 and the ZX-9, where the ZX-9 is warm and the CR-7 is clinical. That said if you wish buy a Dragon send it to ES labs for a complete overhaul then compare with the Tandberg, and come to a conclussion. I bet that lots of Dragon owners like the sound of the Dragon but by no means they sound as they shoul until an overhaul is done.
Angel

[braxus]

The sound of the Dragon is not overly warm...

No but its probably warmer then the Tandberg. It makes a difference.

[niklasthedolphin]

Dolph,
You are an advocate for the Tandberg TCD 910. You have posted all over the web that Tandberg is a killer of Dragon, definately not mine. The 910 is a pro machine that was limmited to 400 I think and expensive. And no, I have never gone against it, I don't know of anyone that has one I wish, but I went against a 3014A it sound it good but the Dragon sound it better. The Dragon had a deeper and wider stage, and nuances were heard that were absent on the 3014A or sounded tini in many cases. That said I will never know if the TCD 910 is any better, again you can't conclude that is better because you have never heard my Dragon. By the way I heard the Proac D25 and did not impressed me as muich as the Harbeth 7ES2 did. The D25 lost the gift of the 2.5 a warm speaker. But again is all about matching. I never meant to say that you like bright sound, after noting your system the right word is a bit clinical sound and there is nothing wrong with that it is just that I prefer a warmer sound.
Angel

I advocate the sound being true to the original.

I am aware that my speakers are not the best but the combo, and the matching which nobody but those who heard it can realy comment on, I have get's as close to my former mentioned preference as my money can buy.

When ever I want, I can put on my Ergo earspeakers - not to mistake with headphones.

I have a R2R deck with material to play that leaves nothing behind.
I made these masters myself.
I know how true THEY are are to the original.

In comparison with this Lyrec R2R (factory updated to as new which means a $15.000 deck aimed at being better than Studer, Nagra, Stellavox etc.) playing master material recorded and A/B tested on several cassette decks, the Nakamichis fall thru.

I will turn the world around and say that you for sure are advocating the Dragon.

By all means, it's a wonderful deck, just not the best out there.

TCD 910 was made in ~400 pieces
If you want the best to playback go for the TCD 911
This was made in the impressing amount of 40 pieces.
This machine can not record although still costing around $ 6.000,- from new.
It has manual azimuth adjustment of the PB head.................because manual adjustment makes the best result if you have the time and the ears.

Who would put an inaccurate auto reverse mechanism into a top spec deck?

Stay happy and enjoy what you have.

Kindly

"dolph"

[braxus]

Man,

Maybe I should trade in my DR-1 and buy a Dragon and put this all to rest. I've been thinking about doing such that anyway. There is a shop I know that told me they have a few Dragons or so that they can't do anything because they need idler tires and don't know where to get real ones. So Im going to see if I can take one of those decks off their hands.

[iamhifi]

Hello Dolph,
You are correct I am advocate of my Nakamichi Dragon and no other, why because I know that outperformed other Dragons. Keep in mind that the Dragon is a consumer deck and the auto reverse is a convenience not to get up from your seat through listening sessions and the NAAC is a plus playing other tapes. The 910 and the 911 are counted and lots of money were put into it. There are thousands of Dragons out there. My recommendation is get a 1986 or newer Dragon then spend 1500-2000 to overhaul it at ES Labs.
That said, I will keep my eyes open for one and send it to the experts for an overhaul and I will take it from there.
What are the odds on finding one?
Well any shoot me an email if you got one for sale.
Angel

[macster]

Well

Now I've done it. I've got a line on two 3014's (I believe one is an 3014A) for $200.00. Of course they both need work. But... at the price of $200.00 for the both of them, I can "part" em out and make my money back. I might keep em though, but I wanted to send my 681ZX to ESL. Craps! But I'm picking them up next month and I will just have to deal with it.

M~

[braxus]

Well

Now I've done it. I've got a line on two 3014's (I believe one is an 3014A) for $200.00. Of course they both need work. But... at the price of $200.00 for the both of them, I can "part" em out and make my money back. I might keep em though, but I wanted to send my 681ZX to ESL. Craps! But I'm picking them up next month and I will just have to deal with it.

M~

Good for you. If you sell one, keep the A model for sure. Let me know what you think of it once you get it going and have it in your hands. I'll give you the tech in New York his info if you decide to send it off to be fixed.

[macster]

Good for you. If you sell one, keep the A model for sure. Let me know what you think of it once you get it going and have it in your hands. I'll give you the tech in New York his info if you decide to send it off to be fixed.

That will work, Soundsmith will R&R it for $875.00 plus shipping. I need to downsize my collection. But I will keep one of the Tandbergs just for "pride" of ownership.

M~

[braxus]

That will work, Soundsmith will R&R it for $875.00 plus shipping. I need to downsize my collection. But I will keep one of the Tandbergs just for "pride" of ownership.

M~

I hate to tell you, but I've heard a many bad things about that place. Don't take your deck to them. Give it to Nick who was THE Tandberg tech in the US. He was even recommended by Tandberg themselves to repair their decks. Soundsmith is not recommended by those who know these decks.

[Marc Hugo]

Man,

Maybe I should trade in my DR-1 and buy a Dragon and put this all to rest. I've been thinking about doing such that anyway. There is a shop I know that told me they have a few Dragons or so that they can't do anything because they need idler tires and don't know where to get real ones. So Im going to see if I can take one of those decks off their hands.

Hi Braxus,

The debate around all these fine machines is just that, a debate, none of these views are an exact science. When you've got past the basics of frequency response and wow and flutter, then its a bit like perfume or wine. The good one is the one you like, not what some other person likes (or is devoted to). Trust your own ears, which I'm sure are excellent - that is the final arbiter.

Kindest wishes - Marc

[macster]

I hate to tell you, but I've heard a many bad things about that place. Don't take your deck to them. Give it to Nick who was THE Tandberg tech in the US. He was even recommended by Tandberg themselves to repair their decks. Soundsmith is not recommended by those who know these decks.

Got it. I might go today and pick them up. They are going to gather dust for awhile, but at least I will have them.

M~

[braxus]

Got it. I might go today and pick them up. They are going to gather dust for awhile, but at least I will have them.

M~

Some pics would be great too. Find out what needs fixing if you can.

[macster]

Braxus

I got Em! $200.00 for the following:1. 3014A - missing the cassette well cover, minor scratches on top.2. 3014 - missing the; top; bottom and cassette well cover.I was told that they don't work, so I don't expect them to. Also, I got a TDK SA 90 early version thrown in. Actually, that's what sealed the deal. I haven't turned them on because "She who has the GOODIES" told me to stain the fence and have some landscape designs ready for her when she comes home. So... the fence is "in work" and I'm thinking about what landscape designs to do. Back to the cassette decks, if all else fails, I'll part one/both of these out to recoup my costs of $200.00 plus a gallon of San Diego gas $3.699.

M~

[macster]

Here are the pictures of what I paid $200.00 for. *hope*

http://www.blkmacster.com/cartridge/images/3014.JPG

http://www.blkmacster.com/cartridge/images/3014A.JPG


M~

[braxus]

Excellent Macster! Im sure the A deck will give you lots of pleasure once you get it working. And the non A deck (if you sell it for parts) will help fund your initial sale and maybe some parts too for the A deck. Cool. Someone else with the same deck as me. Look forward to reading your comments on the sound of your A deck.

[braxus]

Well I had my first chance today to listen to the Tandberg 3014 at louder levels today. I had to use a tape I made on my Aiwa XK-009 deck, since I cannot record on the Tandberg yet. The tape I used was a JVC ME-P90 Metal tape recorded in Dolby C with music from CD and SACD. The first side was a compilation I made up and am calling it "Robyn- Greatest Hits". This is Robyn's first 3 CDs with the best songs I like put onto one tape. If you are not familiar with her, she had a popular release in the late 90s called "Robyn Is Here". Her following albums were not released in North America, but some say her music has gotten better with later releases. She does have some good songs on them. Her second album is called "My Truth" and third is "Don't Stop the Music". She has a 4th album out which I don't have and since it has explicit lyrics (like 1 song on her third album)- I'm not sure Im getting it however good they say it is. Anyway the side B was from a early 80s release on SACD which will remain un-named.

Now to the music. Fired up the Rotel gear and had volume at about 10 oclock. Don't often listen to music at his level, but on occassion have in the past. Robyn's voice comes across very clear on this deck. Her voice was almost 3D like and very dynamic. The dynamics on this deck are very good- almost like someone used an expander with the music. The music is not flat at all. This deck has a very good top end. The treble I'd say is this deck's strong point. I could hear the drop-outs on the tape very easily and the misalignment at times. Other decks would almost smear this attribute to be un-noticed. Dolby C sound pretty good on this deck, but I had to turn it off later into the tape as the high end was dropping off. When I turned it off- it was amazing how the tape openned up even more in spaciousness. But that was to be expected. So a tape made on another deck sounded quite good on the 3014. It makes me wonder how it will sound with new belts and a recording done on this deck. Levels on that metal tape went up to 3db on the Tandberg which is where the Aiwa liked it (though on the Aiwa the meters on it say 8 db). The recommended setting on the 3014 is to record to 0db and not higher. So this deck likes conservative levels, probably to improve performance. The sound in dimensionality was about equal to my Aiwa XK-S9000 with metal tapes. I suspect this will improve with tapes made directly on the Tandberg. Maybe I'll try Dolby Off to hear if it helps there. Or record from some vinyl. The low end on the Tandberg didn't seem overly pronounced, but I wasn't sitting in the sweet spot to hear the bass. If I was sitting father back in the room, the low end would be more noticable. The bass was tight though- something these B&W speakers are good for doing.

So the first round on the 3014 deck gave a hint of what it could do. Now to compare it directly with my Aiwa 9000 by years end. That should be an interesting test.

[Scorpion8]

Here are the pictures of what I paid $200.00 for.


Sacrilege! You take that superb deck and toss a new production Maxell UR into it?!? Oh, the horror, the horror. :D

[macster]

Sacrilege! You take that superb deck and toss a new production Maxell UR into it?!? Oh, the horror, the horror. :D

You know after all that "best value" crap from N*V*R and "cost wise readiness," I had to get the tape. Without the tape there was not going to be a deal. But now I'm "broke" for audio stuff for the rest of the year. The plan is to wait until after tax time next year and fix both decks. I will keep the "A" and beg Braxus for a copy of the owners manual. Then I will put the 3014 up for sale along with some other items. I will probably end up with the following decks:

1. 2 Nak CR7As
2. Nak CR5A
3. Revox B215
4. Nak 681ZX
5. Tandberg 3014A

M~

[macster]

Excellent Macster! Im sure the A deck will give you lots of pleasure once you get it working. And the non A deck (if you sell it for parts) will help fund your initial sale and maybe some parts too for the A deck. Cool. Someone else with the same deck as me. Look forward to reading your comments on the sound of your A deck.

Hey

I got the 3014 to play "kinda" and it sounded pretty good. I liked what I heard. Also, what model of B&W speakers do you have?

M~

[braxus]

I've got the lower end B&W 602 s3 speakers. They still sound pretty darn good though.

[Scorpion8]

....and beg Braxus for a copy of the owners manual. I will probably (sell to Scorpion8) the following deck:

4. Nak 681ZX



I think the OM is available online. Lemme check. I modified your post to make it more realistic .... :D

[niklasthedolphin]

Here you go

Material on the 3014/A

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014a-sm.pdf

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014a-b.pdf

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/tcd-3014-om.pdf

http://www.kallhovde.com/tandberg/3014-cat.pdf

Hope you can use it.

"dolph"

[macster]

I think the OM is available online. Lemme check. I modified your post to make it more realistic .... :D

RE" 681ZX" hmmm it's a thought. I have to get it back from Tom first. BTW thanks for the info.

M~

[macster]

Here you go

Material on the 3014/A


"dolph"

Thanks alot, they are exactly what I needed.

M~

[braxus]

Well since I pulled my Aiwa out of the service outlet and brought it back home, I can now do a simple listenning test between the Aiwa 9000 and Tandberg 3014. This should be interesting.

By the way the stereo store I was in today claimed they said the best cassette deck ever made and IT was called "the Dragon Killer"- was the Teac 9000. Funny how I never heard this before or that deck.

[niklasthedolphin]

Well since I pulled my Aiwa out of the service outlet and brought it back home, I can now do a simple listenning test between the Aiwa 9000 and Tandberg 3014. This should be interesting.

By the way the stereo store I was in today claimed they said the best cassette deck ever made and IT was called "the Dragon Killer"- was the Teac 9000. Funny how I never heard this before or that deck.

Wonder if they realy meant the Z- series with the 6000 and 7000 in the top.

It is said that the Z-6000 is better than the Z-7000.

Just like Luxmans K-04 is said to be better than Luxmans K-05.

I only recall Teac V9000 model.
That one is not as good as those from the Z- series.

"dolph"

[macster]

Thanks to Niklas, I have the instructions on replacing the belts in these two machines. I ordered 2 sets of belts from Fred and I should probably get them next week. I'll practice on the 3014 and develop my skill set.

M~

[niklasthedolphin]

You're very welcome Macster.

"dolph"

[braxus]

Dolph,

Im sure he said the 9000 which may be the V one you mentioned. Who knows. I'll confirm that later. I also sent you a PM message here if you missed it.

Funny since some people have said the Revox 710 deck is the "Dragon Killer". Funny how no one can make up their mind.

[macster]

Update:

I dissassembled the 3014 to get aheads up on the belt replacement and sure enough; one of the drive belts is missing, one looks like it has chicken pox on it. Other than that it's just dusty. I'm *hope* on this one.

M~

[braxus]

One belt was missing? How did that happen? Or was it broken in two sitting in there somewhere?

[niklasthedolphin]

Dolph,

Im sure he said the 9000 which may be the V one you mentioned. Who knows. I'll confirm that later. I also sent you a PM message here if you missed it.

Funny since some people have said the Revox 710 deck is the "Dragon Killer". Funny how no one can make up their mind.

The Revox B710 is a great recording machine and inside it is solid buil quality but it is less a great Playback machine and certainly has no good quality in the headphone output.
On the outside buttons feel plastic-like and when the nextec cabinet gets old it's like floating tarmac.
:-)

Ask people what car is the best and you will get 100 different answers.

I got your PM.
I don't realy know what to answer?
Is it a deck worth keeping?
Can you do electronics yourself?
I don't know what a complete rebuild will cost in the US?
Here in DK it would be around $ 1000-1500.
I would only spend those kind of money on some of the top-ten decks in the world.
No cassette decks are ever sold in the top-ten league without being faulty.

I am no engineer and many years has passed since I had my radio tech education and equaly many years since I used it.

But changing all the electrical components would be possible even without knowing anything on electronics.

The technician is needed to find the faulty stuff.

If you can solder or wire wrap you can do that changing capacitor-job yourself.
To solder is a craftsmanship as is wire wrapping.
You get better by doing it and by having the right tools.

There is also the option of a donor deck.

I still don't know what my advice to you would be about that deck, though.
You will have to make up your own mind.

Kindly

"dolph"

[macster]

One belt was missing? How did that happen? Or was it broken in two sitting in there somewhere?

Yeah, down in the bottom. Changing belts is a challenge, I had to follow those disassembly instructions pretty much to the letter and with some additional connector removals.

M~

[macster]

I received the belts today (thanks Fred) and R&R the belts in the 3014. So far so good, it plays and that's good enough for right now. I used the 3014 to get experience on "how to replace the belts in both machines. I'm happy, but the RH channel meter doesn't work (my bad). I'm hoping that all the 3014A needs is belts, either way this has been a learning experience. Right now I'm listening to some Rickie Lee Jones on the 3014 and finishing up recording Jackie Mclean's Action Action Action on the CR7A.

*hope*

M~